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  1. #1
    Registered User redmchalo's Avatar
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    Is ESP Pre-workout really this potent?

    I've taken high stim PWO's in the past like Hyde, Rich Piana 51/50, Nitraflex, etc. I decided to buy a tub of ESP today because my local supplement store had it on sale for $35 for 75 servings. There are three serving types for this PWO. 1 small scoop is "Strong", 2 small scoops is "Intense", and 1 large scoop is "Extreme". I played it safe and decided to try only 1 small scoop and man did today's workout SUCK. As soon as I stepped in the gym, I felt lightheaded/dizzy, felt very nauseous, had a very rapid heartrate, shortness of breath and felt very jittery. I managed to get through the workout but did much less volume than I usually did and left the gym after only 35-40 minutes and had to lay down for a while when I got home for the PWO effects to all go away. If 1 small scoop gave me these side effects, imagine what side effects 2 small scoops or even 1 large scoop would have given me.


    I am not sure how much caffeine 1 small scoop has but I was told that the 1 large scoop has 500 mgs of caffeine, so there's probably other ingredients in this to make this PWO very darn potent. Did anyone else try or is currently using ESP? Did it give you any bad side effects? By the way, I'm used to the increased heartrate and jitters a lot of PWO's give you as I have used high-stim PWOs before but this particular pre workout was something else.
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  2. #2
    Cybergenics...it's bomb! lucia316's Avatar
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    Well, it's a prop blend that tries to make caffeine sound hardcore by using it's chemical name. It's prop blend is mostly Beta Alanine which isn't timing dependent and could cause tingling. That tingling isn't doing anything to improve your workout though. Who knows how much caffeine per serving? It's a prop blend.

    Overall, would not use/10, especially if it's making you feel crappy for whatever reason.
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  3. #3
    Registered User kissdadookie's Avatar
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    ESP has always been VERY heavy on the stims. I don't doubt that the current formulation is just has stim heavy. If you can't handle the stims OP, you could feel some of the adverse effects of using stimulants at too high a dose (such as rapid heart beat, nausea, etc.).
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    Registered User bsilvey's Avatar
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    1,3,7-TRIMETHYLPURINE-2,6-DIONE, - Caffeine

    3,7-DIMETHYL-1H-PURINE-2,6-DIONE, - Caffeine


    Pretty smart marketing on their part. Looks like something illegal, compared to the other regular names they put in the ingredient list.

    OP stop wasting your money on proprietary blends. It is seriously almost always high caffeine and sprinkles of other supps, just so they can say it contains it.

    Do your research and only buy stuff that contains the effective dosages according to legit studies.
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  5. #5
    Registered User kissdadookie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bsilvey View Post
    1,3,7-TRIMETHYLPURINE-2,6-DIONE, - Caffeine

    3,7-DIMETHYL-1H-PURINE-2,6-DIONE, - Caffeine


    Pretty smart marketing on their part. Looks like something illegal, compared to the other regular names they put in the ingredient list.

    OP stop wasting your money on proprietary blends. It is seriously almost always high caffeine and sprinkles of other supps, just so they can say it contains it.

    Do your research and only buy stuff that contains the effective dosages according to legit studies.
    Your broad stroke carpet statements here in this case is nothing more than copy pasta. ESP has ALWAYS been STRONG AF. Metabolic Nutrition's stimulant products have historically been STRONG AF. The full dose of ESP is 10 grams. What sprinkles of ingredients? Explain.

    The formula is literally beta alanine + stimulants + electrolytes. It's a very straight forward formula. What sprinkled in ingredients are there especially since the full dose is 10 grams. You really need to learn how to read a label.
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  6. #6
    Registered User bsilvey's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    Your broad stroke carpet statements here in this case is nothing more than copy pasta. ESP has ALWAYS been STRONG AF. Metabolic Nutrition's stimulant products have historically been STRONG AF. The full dose of ESP is 10 grams. What sprinkles of ingredients? Explain.

    The formula is literally beta alanine + stimulants + electrolytes. It's a very straight forward formula. What sprinkled in ingredients are there especially since the full dose is 10 grams. You really need to learn how to read a label.
    1 Scoop serving is 3.3grams. The effective dose of Beta alanine is 3.2grams (https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/you...a-alanine.html)

    I'm sure it works great as a crazy stim, but I think that money could be spent on something else. Also, why even include beta-alanine in a pre-workout? IT doesn't boost performance right away. I can see including it in a pre-workout that has actual pump inducing ingredients, just as an easy way to get it in.
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  7. #7
    Registered User kissdadookie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bsilvey View Post
    1 Scoop serving is 3.3grams. The effective dose of Beta alanine is 3.2grams (https://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/you...a-alanine.html)

    I'm sure it works great as a crazy stim, but I think that money could be spent on something else. Also, why even include beta-alanine in a pre-workout? IT doesn't boost performance right away. I can see including it in a pre-workout that has actual pump inducing ingredients, just as an easy way to get it in.
    That's not the actual expected serving size. Max dose 1 large scoop (double ended scooper, one side is a small scooper the other is the max dose). 30 servings if going by the 1 large scoop. Like I said, you clearly didn't bother to take a careful look at the product and how it was intended to be used.

    The product is LITERALLY named ESP which stands for Energy Stimulant Pre-workout. Nothing on the label or copy states it's a pump preworkout. It is as transparent as it gets. You basically just ignored all that and pooed pooed it because it's a prop blend... without bothering to look at the ingredients list and what the real intended dose is (the reason they have the small scooper end of the scooper is so that people can better adjust the dosage depending on their stimulant tolerance, the ad copy literally says as much).

    Let me also point this out again, who the heck cares if it's a prop blend when the ingredients list is basically: beta alanine + stimulants + some choline + electrolytes and minerals. What exactly is the problem with it being a prop blend when you have a generous serving size coupled with the fact that the formula is super straightforward and not filled with a bunch of random chit.
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  8. #8
    Future surgeon blokpost's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kissdadookie View Post
    ESP has always been VERY heavy on the stims. I don't doubt that the current formulation is just has stim heavy. If you can't handle the stims OP, you could feel some of the adverse effects of using stimulants at too high a dose (such as rapid heart beat, nausea, etc.).
    Strongly agree with this. Have only tried amp-cit version and it was very strong for me at full serving.
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  9. #9
    6 scoops Meatie's Avatar
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    The new or old one? AFIK, the old one had a scooper that had two scopes on it. i remember doing two small scopes and it was lit af fam
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  10. #10
    Registered User kissdadookie's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Meatie View Post
    The new or old one? AFIK, the old one had a scooper that had two scopes on it. i remember doing two small scopes and it was lit af fam
    I always did the 1 big scoop.

    The reformulation has the same two sided scooper. The main stim in it however are basically caffeine and di-caffeine since they couldn't use AMP anymore. They've recently reformulated Synedrex to include DMHA, I wouldn't be surprised if they also add DMHA into ESP soon.
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  11. #11
    Manufacturing Consent Rob1882's Avatar
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    That older ESP was such a good and very strong/potent pre workout at 1 full scoop I really liked that a lot of their products are fantastic
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    Registered User Cheftepesh's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Rob1882 View Post
    That older ESP was such a good and very strong/potent pre workout at 1 full scoop I really liked that a lot of their products are fantastic
    This guy is a guru on flavors and stims. If he has enjoyed a product then it is worth checking out.
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    Originally Posted by bsilvey View Post
    1,3,7-TRIMETHYLPURINE-2,6-DIONE, - Caffeine

    3,7-DIMETHYL-1H-PURINE-2,6-DIONE, - Caffeine


    Pretty smart marketing on their part. Looks like something illegal, compared to the other regular names they put in the ingredient list.

    OP stop wasting your money on proprietary blends. It is seriously almost always high caffeine and sprinkles of other supps, just so they can say it contains it.

    Do your research and only buy stuff that contains the effective dosages according to legit studies.
    3,7-DIMETHYL-1H-PURINE-2,6-DIONE is Theobromine not caffeine. they're related compounds but whereas caffeine can readily cross the blood-brain barrier, theobromine is less adept at it, though it still can in smaller quantities, however theobromine makes up for this by being a stronger heart stimulant and vasodilator than caffeine, which is why they are used in combination here.
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    don't bother with the new esp stuff hop on eBay and buy an older version any older version you can get your hands on and take 1 and a half scoops and you will be set
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