Kabuki Strength Power and Squat Bars

[jimbuick]

Children, children, simmer down!
I sent over a question about the collars. Hopefully, I'll get a reply soon.


Is it so hard to ask the company selling the collars where they are manufactured? You guys are silly.

CS has usually been quick when I had questions about products. For whatever it is worth, I cannot find anywhere where they state that the collars are made in U.S.A. Some of their equipment states where it is manufactured (Duffalo, for example), but the collars do not (at least not that I can find).

I don't know where Bench pulled that quote from because I am not finding it on the website (doesn't mean it isn't there, only that I cannot find it).

They may be Chinese made, but I don't see where he claims they aren't? Maybe I am missing it. It certainly wouldn't be the first time in my life.

[Bench905]

Ok, so, you don't have any evidence that kabuki doesn't manufacture the collars then.

I don't have a bill of sale, but all the writing is on the wall that they are Chinese made. They are identical to all the other knockoffs that have permeated Amazon and eBay, they are visibly different from genuine OSO collars, they came out 1.5 years after OSO's hit Rogue (and most likely 2+ years after OSO's were made), etc.

I would wager that their anti-fragile floss bands are also made in China.

I only made one assertion about OSO collars; that assertion was that they cost more money than the Kabuki collars do. That isn't unfounded and is easily verifiable if you care to check.

I never even said the Kabuki were better. I only said they hold better than any other collar that *I* have used and that *if* OSO has the same hold then Kabuki still does it for less (again, easily verifiable and not at all unfounded).

And I'm basically talking about the hypocrisy.

Saying this: ""There's no reason the fitness equipment industry can't support high-end, innovative equipment" and then knocking off innovative patent pending American-made collars to undercut for $20 less?

I don't know where Bench pulled that quote from because I am not finding it on the website (doesn't mean it isn't there, only that I cannot find it).

They may be Chinese made, but I don't see where he claims they aren't? Maybe I am missing it. It certainly wouldn't be the first time in my life.

"We are proud to say that ALL of our products are manufactured right here in the US of A by hard working men and women. Thank you for supporting our company and our country!" https://www.instagram.com/p/BV8FCdenv3P/?hl=en
"We are proud of the fact that our equipment is made using American steel and American labor! Happy Independence Day from the team at Kabuki Strength!" : https://www.instagram.com/p/BWIigKaniBB/?hl=en

[Cleveland33]

Saw a comment Duffin made where he claimed the electroless nickel is better than stainless steel. He also said most vendors can't even offer the finish because of "tank size," whatever that means. I don't know anything about the finish.

Hopefully, someone on here will get the finish on a bar and compare it. I haven't used it or SS on a barbell.

Nickel is going to be more corrosion resistant than the SS used in barbells.

Plating requires submerging the item in a tank - most plating places probably can't nickel plate something 7' feel long, not a large market for it compared to say chrome, which is regularly used on large items.

[jimbuick]

Nickel is going to be more corrosion resistant than the SS used in barbells.

Plating requires submerging the item in a tank - most plating places probably can't nickel plate something 7' feel long, not a large market for it compared to say chrome, which is regularly used on large items.

That's interesting.

Is the nickel plating typically going to be cheaper than SS for a barbell? If so, I wonder why more companies haven't done it.

[smokinHawk]

That's interesting.

Is the nickel plating typically going to be cheaper than SS for a barbell? If so, I wonder why more companies haven't done it.

nickel plating (which nickel is an added alloy in stainless to make it corrosion resistant) will be more resistant to the oxidation process, problem is it can be scratched, chipped or worn like any other coating exposing the steel to corrosion.

Stainless is throughout so if it does scratch, chip there is nothing to wear off so what is underneath is still resistant to the elements.

the stainless used in barbells (shaft) is slightly susceptible to oxidation. Were all you need to do if it does oxidize (which will be very minor) take a wire brush to it.

So stainless barbells after years and years of use abuse will look in better condition then any coated barbell under the same use.

which is why I am not interested now that Kabuki decided to go that route versus the stainless steel he planned on at first.

[Cleveland33]

That's interesting.

Is the nickel plating typically going to be cheaper than SS for a barbell? If so, I wonder why more companies haven't done it.

Like he said, it's difficult to find a plater with that capability.

[jimbuick]

nickel plating (which nickel is an added alloy in stainless to make it corrosion resistant) will be more resistant to the oxidation process, problem is it can be scratched, chipped or worn like any other coating exposing the steel to corrosion.

Stainless is throughout so if it does scratch, chip there is nothing to wear off so what is underneath is still resistant to the elements.

the stainless used in barbells (shaft) is slightly susceptible to oxidation. Were all you need to do if it does oxidize (which will be very minor) take a wire brush to it.

So stainless barbells after years and years of use abuse will look in better condition then any coated barbell under the same use.

which is why I am not interested now that Kabuki decided to go that route versus the stainless steel he planned on at first.

If they are plated well then they shouldn't chip very easily, should they?

[Synthetickiller]

nickel plating (which nickel is an added alloy in stainless to make it corrosion resistant) will be more resistant to the oxidation process, problem is it can be scratched, chipped or worn like any other coating exposing the steel to corrosion.

Stainless is throughout so if it does scratch, chip there is nothing to wear off so what is underneath is still resistant to the elements.

the stainless used in barbells (shaft) is slightly susceptible to oxidation. Were all you need to do if it does oxidize (which will be very minor) take a wire brush to it.

So stainless barbells after years and years of use abuse will look in better condition then any coated barbell under the same use.

which is why I am not interested now that Kabuki decided to go that route versus the stainless steel he planned on at first.

Smokin', you guys had a lot of damaged bars that made SS the go-to bar for training or something? I'd just like to know why it's such an issue if metal isn't coming in contact w/ the bar, short of the sleeves & plates.

Thoughts?

[Hardgains88]

Smokin', you guys had a lot of damaged bars that made SS the go-to bar for training or something? I'd just like to know why it's such an issue if metal isn't coming in contact w/ the bar, short of the sleeves & plates.

Thoughts?

i cant imagine theres a need for more corrosion resistance then you get with stainless. I like the nickel platings looks, but im thinking there cant be that big a difference in cost between quality nickel plating and stainless. As a consumer im not only picking stainless if given a choice, but im consudering it a oremium over nickel plating regardless of economic realities. Im wondering if theres an incompatibility with kabukis steel treatment that doesnt work with available stainless steel alloys? Im spitballing, but if rogue charges $100 retail (and there making a profit at that amount) for the upgrade to stainless, even if your not as efficiant or dont buy in the same quantity as them, the cost has to be less. At the price of these bars it seems like stainless would have made them seem a better value, even if it was a matter of charging an extra $30-$40 bucks (figuring cost of stainless less whatever the nickel pkating option is) i can understand with bars that are retailing under $350-$400 that stainless options may drive the price up, but these bars need real compelling reasons to be chosen over the traditional players. The ultra hard thing is great, but its oretty intangible to me. I cant see it, feel it, hell, i cant even be sure its there. At least stainless i know that im getting someyhing Most bars dont give me.

[Synthetickiller]

i cant imagine theres a need for more corrosion resistance then you get with stainless. I like the nickel platings looks, but im thinking there cant be that big a difference in cost between quality nickel plating and stainless. As a consumer im not only picking stainless if given a choice, but im consudering it a oremium over nickel plating regardless of economic realities. Im wondering if theres an incompatibility with kabukis steel treatment that doesnt work with available stainless steel alloys? Im spitballing, but if rogue charges $100 retail (and there making a profit at that amount) for the upgrade to stainless, even if your not as efficiant or dont buy in the same quantity as them, the cost has to be less. At the price of these bars it seems like stainless would have made them seem a better value, even if it was a matter of charging an extra $30-$40 bucks (figuring cost of stainless less whatever the nickel pkating option is) i can understand with bars that are retailing under $350-$400 that stainless options may drive the price up, but these bars need real compelling reasons to be chosen over the traditional players. The ultra hard thing is great, but its oretty intangible to me. I cant see it, feel it, hell, i cant even be sure its there. At least stainless i know that im getting someyhing Most bars dont give me.

Ivanko OBX-20kg (I feel like I type that too often, lol) is black oxide. Short of some metal on metal due to moving it to 6 different places in 2 years, it has held up, even on metal j-cups (cut into the j-cup metal and the coating there looks fine. There's been a little oxidation, but the bar has been in horrible conditions. Currently, it sits in 70% humidity most of the time.

I have a SS (Iron Wolfe), bare (duffalo), black oxide (ivanko) and a lot of specialty bars that are black powdercoat.
I can say that the diameter & quality of knurling has made much more of a difference for me than the coating. My Iron wolfe has zero rust. It's great. My Duffalo has a decent patina. Both bars hold onto my back well. The Ivanko sucks for low bar squatting because of the knurling, not the coating. If the Ivanko was bare, I still think it would suck.


This is why I'm curious where SmokinHawk is coming from. The dude is one of the strongest people on this forum. hell, in the world. I know he puts his equipment through the ringer. If it holds up for him, it'll hold up for anyone else. I can't think of a good reason, so I'm hoping he gives me one out of experience in hardcore training environments.


The more I think about it, so long as it's not crappy chrome or zinc (it discolors), I'd probably be happy. I'm starting to wonder if bar coatings are like plate preference here. People want the best, but it really doesn't make a difference in the scheme of things, other than maybe chrome, maybe.

[smokinHawk]

Smokin', you guys had a lot of damaged bars that made SS the go-to bar for training or something? I'd just like to know why it's such an issue if metal isn't coming in contact w/ the bar, short of the sleeves & plates.

Thoughts?

I will have to say I don't think I have used a bar with electroless nickle, but every other bar with a coating I have seen scratch or wear off.
I try to be careful with my bars but things happen. I have mis-racked 584
and fell with 573lbs

but my stainless iron wolfe still looks great.

my texas deadlift bar I have scratched the coating in the center transporting it, the knurling where I grab it with chalk seems to have some rust, and where it rides up my legs the coating is wearing off.
A rogue deadlift bar at the PL gym i go to has its zinc coating where it rides up your legs pretty warn off.
All the texas PB there the coating is pretty much worn off most of the bars. Any hard chrome bars there the knurling where you grab it has rust and several other places where the coating had been scratched, worn or chipped.
But all the SS iron wolfe bars there still look great, just has chalk on the bars, but no rust

[Cleveland33]

i cant imagine theres a need for more corrosion resistance then you get with stainless. I like the nickel platings looks, but im thinking there cant be that big a difference in cost between quality nickel plating and stainless. As a consumer im not only picking stainless if given a choice, but im consudering it a oremium over nickel plating regardless of economic realities. Im wondering if theres an incompatibility with kabukis steel treatment that doesnt work with available stainless steel alloys? Im spitballing, but if rogue charges $100 retail (and there making a profit at that amount) for the upgrade to stainless, even if your not as efficiant or dont buy in the same quantity as them, the cost has to be less. At the price of these bars it seems like stainless would have made them seem a better value, even if it was a matter of charging an extra $30-$40 bucks (figuring cost of stainless less whatever the nickel pkating option is) i can understand with bars that are retailing under $350-$400 that stainless options may drive the price up, but these bars need real compelling reasons to be chosen over the traditional players. The ultra hard thing is great, but its oretty intangible to me. I cant see it, feel it, hell, i cant even be sure its there. At least stainless i know that im getting someyhing Most bars dont give me.

The level of stainless steel they are using in barbells is not a high grade, it's magnetic and it will rust - not as much as a bare steel bar obviously but probably on par with a quality chrome job.

It sounds, though I am not positive, like they are using a higher quality carbon steel in terms of performance than the stainless steel they would use and then giving it an excellent plating.

Then again, people seem to prefer the bare steel over plated because it feels better in the hand and stainless offers that advantage. But I think most people are comparing bare steel to crappy plating because there weren't many quality bars that were plated well. I like the feel of York's satin chrome on my power bar over the Rogue bare steel OPB bar at the gym.

[BYOBB]

I don't have any reason to believe they are made in China, do you? If you have some evidence of that, I'd like to know what it is. False advertising claims are pretty serious to me, so if he is claiming they are made in the U.S. when they aren't; well...

He may not have come up with the design (I don't know what came first, and had only heard of the oso collar when you mentioned it), but I know the collar he offers works damn well. I also now know it works damn well for less money than other collars that are built similarly.

That's good enough for me.

The website no longer works and maybe the company is gone altogether, but WodWeights was selling the OSO ripoffs almost a year before Duffin was. Now they're sold by several different companies across Amazon and Ebay. Like Bench905 said, the ripoffs (including Duffin's) all look the same while the OSOs look different. Based on the edges, placement of the rubber lining, logo placement and the handle, I think it's fairly obvious they're buying generic OSO ripoffs with their brand name slapped on like everyone else. Of course, I can't prove this without being in Duffin's shop. I recall these being advertised in a way that made it sound like it was a unique design by Duffin.

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1412678273

These are the exact same colors as the Duffin collars.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HVMBK08/

Same logo placement, though in different directions

[jimbuick]

The website no longer works and maybe the company is gone altogether, but WodWeights was selling the OSO ripoffs almost a year before Duffin was. Now they're sold by several different companies across Amazon and Ebay. Like Bench905 said, the ripoffs (including Duffin's) all look the same while the OSOs look different. Based on the edges, placement of the rubber lining, logo placement and the handle, I think it's fairly obvious they're buying generic OSO ripoffs with their brand name slapped on like everyone else. Of course, I can't prove this without being in Duffin's shop. I recall these being advertised in a way that made it sound like it was a unique design by Duffin.

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1412678273

These are the exact same colors as the Duffin collars.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HVMBK08/

Same logo placement, though in different directions

I don't think there is any argument that they look similar. Kabuki website seems to make some claims that attempt to differentiate their collars from similar collars.

"A few of our favorite little details and specs on this collar that we believe set it apart from others.

Tightened tolerances for the inner diameter of the collar, so the fit is absolutely crisp and perfect.
Note: You may have to "squeeze" the collar apart when sliding on the bar for the first few times until it breaks in. This is completely normal and it will be easier to get it on and off after a while. Do not twist the collar onto the bar as this will cause the rubber inside the collar to strip out.

Increased thickness of the rubber gasket that provides friction between the collar and the sleeve of your bar. This improves durability and longevity of the collar.

Less tolerance in certain areas (latch assembly) to decrease risk of stress fractures and long-term material wear. Certain manufacturers use tight-tolerances everywhere to have a better "look and feel", however often times this is counter-productive to the usability and longevity of the collar."

Does that mean they aren't generic chinese made collars? Not necessarily, but it does suggest that they are made to different specifications than other similar collars which leads me to believe they are not just buying regular knockoffs with their own branding.

[BYOBB]

I don't think there is any argument that they look similar. Kabuki website seems to make some claims that attempt to differentiate their collars from similar collars.

"A few of our favorite little details and specs on this collar that we believe set it apart from others.

Tightened tolerances for the inner diameter of the collar, so the fit is absolutely crisp and perfect.
Note: You may have to "squeeze" the collar apart when sliding on the bar for the first few times until it breaks in. This is completely normal and it will be easier to get it on and off after a while. Do not twist the collar onto the bar as this will cause the rubber inside the collar to strip out.

Increased thickness of the rubber gasket that provides friction between the collar and the sleeve of your bar. This improves durability and longevity of the collar.

Less tolerance in certain areas (latch assembly) to decrease risk of stress fractures and long-term material wear. Certain manufacturers use tight-tolerances everywhere to have a better "look and feel", however often times this is counter-productive to the usability and longevity of the collar."

Does that mean they aren't generic chinese made collars? Not necessarily, but it does suggest that they are made to different specifications than other similar collars which leads me to believe they are not just buying regular knockoffs with their own branding.

It's possible that these are made to tighter tolerances or some higher spec. I haven't tried the Kabuki collars so I cannot confirm. But I've used knock off OSOs before and they work very, very well even for overhead drops. I'm skeptical that significant changes were made while the products look exactly the same, are priced so similarly, and the regular no-brand knock offs actually work well.

[Mitcho7]

did anyone end up picking up the power bar or the squat bar and if so have they been delivered yet?

[turbolsxstang]

did anyone end up picking up the power bar or the squat bar and if so have they been delivered yet?

I believe a few members have them on order but no one has received them yet.

[TunaGill]

Here's a review of the power bar: http://www.garagegymreviews.com/kabu...er-bar-review/

"The Kabuki Strength New Generation Power Bar is the best power bar we've tested to date. Everything from the knurling to the tensile strength of the steel is superior to other power bars we've reviewed including our previous favorite, the Rogue Ohio Power Bar. If you're looking for the best bar for powerlifting specific training and are willing to spend money to get it, this is the bar we recommend."

[cwcmac]

Here's a review of the power bar: http://www.garagegymreviews.com/kabu...er-bar-review/

"The Kabuki Strength New Generation Power Bar is the best power bar we've tested to date. Everything from the knurling to the tensile strength of the steel is superior to other power bars we've reviewed including our previous favorite, the Rogue Ohio Power Bar. If you're looking for the best bar for powerlifting specific training and are willing to spend money to get it, this is the bar we recommend."

I'm still curious why the tensile strength would have that much of an impact. It seems the 190K-210K or so of a lot of larger selling power bars is still enough for anyone squatting/benching under 500-600. I could be wrong on that but I'm not too sure if any benefit truly exists beyond a certain point. Others like Mech, MGM or SmokinHawk could probably let me know if I am wrong. Knulring and others factors can definitiely be a benefit but will be end up with people raving about a 500K tensile strength bar in a few years? How much more overkill is necessary?

[thejosef]

Anybody get a tracking number yet? I'm sure they're pretty overwhelmed from the massive BF sale.. Would love for my power bar to show up next week, but I'm not placing any bets..

Of course, nobody really NEEDS a bar this strong. I bought one b/c I wanted a 29mm power bar, and wanted to try something new.. to check their quality and knurl out. It's a lot of money, but I always sell stuff to buy new stuff. I like bars. I like lifting. Buy stuff that motivates you to lift.

[cwcmac]

Anybody get a tracking number yet? I'm sure they're pretty overwhelmed from the massive BF sale.. Would love for my power bar to show up next week, but I'm not placing any bets..

Of course, nobody really NEEDS a bar this strong. I bought one b/c I wanted a 29mm power bar, and wanted to try something new.. to check their quality and knurl out. It's a lot of money, but I always sell stuff to buy new stuff. I like bars. I like lifting. Buy stuff that motivates you to lift.

I like bars as well which probably explains why i need to start a 6 month cut. We may be talking about different 'bars'

[MGM711]

I'm still curious why the tensile strength would have that much of an impact. It seems the 190K-210K or so of a lot of larger selling power bars is still enough for anyone squatting/benching under 500-600. I could be wrong on that but I'm not too sure if any benefit truly exists beyond a certain point. Others like Mech, MGM or SmokinHawk could probably let me know if I am wrong. Knulring and others factors can definitiely be a benefit but will be end up with people raving about a 500K tensile strength bar in a few years? How much more overkill is necessary?

I mentioned in another thread that I'm suspicious about tensile ratings in bars being made now. 185K tensile is plenty strong, even for a competitive lifter. Things get wonky with bars when going over 600. When I competed in gear, even a TPB would feel sloppy benching over 550 which is why I always benched with a squat bar shirted. 185-215K is plenty strong, bar diameter becomes more important if one doesn't want bar flex, thats why squat bars are 30mm and up.

[irongrandpa]

I mentioned in another thread that I'm suspicious about tensile ratings in bars being made now. 185K tensile is plenty strong, even for a competitive lifter. Things get wonky with bars when going over 600. When I competed in gear, even a TPB would feel sloppy benching over 550 which is why I always benched with a squat bar shirted. 185-215K is plenty strong, bar diameter becomes more important if one doesn't want bar flex, thats why squat bars are 30mm and up.

It hadn't been that long ago that most of Rogue's bars were rated at 160 or so.

[skrebs01]

I too am looking for a review on this bar as I’m most probably going to get one. Actually, The only reason I won’t buy one is if it reviews as a complete dud witch I’m sure it won’t.

Timing wasn’t right for me this past week to order. Hopefully there will be a similar sale around Christmas/New Years.

[chadsalt]

Anybody get a tracking number yet? I'm sure they're pretty overwhelmed from the massive BF sale.. Would love for my power bar to show up next week, but I'm not placing any bets..

Of course, nobody really NEEDS a bar this strong. I bought one b/c I wanted a 29mm power bar, and wanted to try something new.. to check their quality and knurl out. It's a lot of money, but I always sell stuff to buy new stuff. I like bars. I like lifting. Buy stuff that motivates you to lift.

No tracking yet.


I'm pretty much the same, new stuff keeps the interest up. I certainly can't justify a bar of these specs, just like 90% of us, nothing other than the cheapo Cap/FG bars are in any danger from me. Looks like a unique bar so I'll give it a shot, you only go around once.

[cwcmac]

It hadn't been that long ago that most of Rogue's bars were rated at 160 or so.

Can't believe people weren't dying left and right from bars snapping on them or bending and trapping them.

[MGM711]

It hadn't been that long ago that most of Rogue's bars were rated at 160 or so.

I remember when Glenn Pendlay sent me one of his early prototypes years back to try out. IIRC, they were 155K, and at that time I was impressed at the rating since there were only a handful of bars that were stronger. Now, beginners with 225 squat max are questioning a purchase of anything under 205K it seems. Glenn started a barbell revolution...bars are certainly better made now than they were then, but again, I'm highly suspicious at the ratings anymore.

[Jason2459]

It's my understanding as well that if not done right a tensile strength pushed to high can make the bar more brittle.

Any decemt bar over 190k is more then adequate. I'm more concerned with yeild strength. Most never advertise that including the Kabuki bars at least I haven't seen it.

[urbanlifter]

"The Kabuki Strength New Generation Power Bar is the best power bar we've tested to date. Everything from the knurling to the tensile strength of the steel is superior to other power bars we've reviewed including our previous favorite, the Rogue Ohio Power Bar. If you're looking for the best bar for powerlifting specific training and are willing to spend money to get it, this is the bar we recommend."

No offense to this guy, but WTF is with that comment regarding the knurling? "Due to the preciseness of the knurl, there are areas near the Powerlifting Knurl Marks that are double tracked about 1/8″? Isn't NOT having double tracked knurl part of 'Preciseness'? Rogue tosses their double tracked in Boneyard, so explain again to me how that is suddenly acceptable on such an expensive barbell? saw that main endcap on the home page and immediately thought it looked like something CAP would toss in a tube to get scratched up, I'm sure the bar is great but this dude seemed like he had his mind made up before even testing it out.

[bobcat255]

It's my understanding as well that if not done right a tensile strength pushed to high can make the bar more brittle.

Any decemt bar over 190k is more then adequate. I'm more concerned with yeild strength. Most never advertise that including the Kabuki bars at least I haven't seen it.

Here's an interesting video from Duffin and he covers this...



More info here: https://kabukistrength.com/power-bar-squat-bar/

No offense to this guy, but WTF is with that comment regarding the knurling? "Due to the preciseness of the knurl, there are areas near the Powerlifting Knurl Marks that are double tracked about 1/8″? Isn't NOT having double tracked knurl part of 'Preciseness'? Rogue tosses their double tracked in Boneyard, so explain again to me how that is suddenly acceptable on such an expensive barbell? saw that main endcap on the home page and immediately thought it looked like something CAP would toss in a tube to get scratched up, I'm sure the bar is great but this dude seemed like he had his mind made up before even testing it out.

It's done specifically for effect, so you can visually see and feel where the rings are. On other bars it's just bare... so easier to see and feel. They're going after some signature look. Remember, they're trying to separate themselves from others... hard to innovate in this space.