Kabuki Strength Power and Squat Bars

[MGM711]

Unless something has changed, back on April 10th they posted on their ******** page that the IPF power bar would be in the $500-600 range, Stainless steel, but zinc coated (?), 250 PSI, 28.5mm, with "Indestructible" knurl. I'm sure the squat bar will be similar, but thicker, longer, and more expensive.

I'd definitely be down for bare steel, if that helps the price come down. But it's obvious why people prefer stainless.. same great feel, but no rust to deal with. I'm curious to see how these bars sell. There may be a market for the squat bar since the Iron Wolfe stuff is gone, but the power bar market is pretty competitive these days. I mean what would make you buy a Kabuki power bar for $550-ish over a $250 Rogue Ohio Power Bar? Maybe the stainless?? Ok, but is that worth $300 more? Plus Rogue is coming out with theirs "soon" that will definitely be cheaper than 500. How about the "indestructible" knurl?? Don't we all have lined j-hooks these days? Maybe it's the 250k steel?? Is 205k not enough for anyone? Maybe once you squat over 500, that matters? I sure wouldn't know.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what all the hype is about and where the price will end up.. These bars are definitely outta my league for what I need, but I hope someone here can buy either one and report back. (Jim, Pre-Order one!!)

The Iron Wolfe is back on the streets again....not sure when production starts, but that's the rumor. Th r best squat bar made...worth holing out for, IMO.

[MGM711]

Flipping through the posts on Chris's ********, the bar looks to be 255k tensile strength, but not suffer from embrittlement (his words).

If I had to speculate, this isn't going to be a $1000 bar or anywhere near it. The Black Oxide Duffalo is $700 off sale. I cannot see this bar being $300 more. I can see $400 +/- $50. It's not as much machining as the Duffalo or as complicated as their transformer bar. We'll see, but that's my guess.


As for interest, everyone here knows I like Chris's products. It's no secret. From a powerlifting perspective...
I haven't competed in powerlifting for too long, but if I knew what bars were being used in a local meet, regional, nationals (if I qualified), I'd be hard pressed to buy a bar that's not going to be used, especially on the local/regional level. I know this doesn't effect most people on the forum, but it is something to consider if you compete. I wonder how Chris will get his bars out there for meets.

Most people reading this won't care about my above statement. You guys are going to want to compare this bar to whatever is out there in it's price bracket, right?
If my pricestimation is on point, what bars would you consider?
1. Ohio Power Bar, all variants including stainless steel. ($275 bare, $325 20kg version/westside 2.0 version, $375ish for the SS, as per Rogue's statements)
2. American Barbell Elite Power Bar (SS w/ chrome sleeves) ($450)
3. Texas Power Bar ($280ish + shipping) (I know some people will still buy this bar)
4. ??? (please add to this list)

If this bar is in the $600 range, we get a strange combination of bars:
1. Ivanko OBX-20kg (personally, I'd look at Rogue over this bar) ($545+)
2. American Barbell Cerakote Mammoth Power Bar ($550)
3. ???

As other's have said, perhaps $1000
1. Elieko Powerlifting training bar ($850)
2. Elieko Powerlifting competition bar ($950)
3. Ivanko OBXS-20kg 29mm ($1155+)


I don't see anyone buying any of the last 5 bars I listed new, unless they need an Eleiko for training if they use the bar in competition.
With the SS OPB on the way, is anyone remotely interested in Kabuki's new bar? Doesn't seem to be much enthusiasm.


I am curious about the squat bar, but I'm holding my breath till we know if it's SS and price.
What bars are you guys going to compare against it?

The only people who really should be interested in this are powerlifters, so "what is used at meets" is a very reasonable consideration. I'm curtly at local meets, national level money meets, IPF meets, pretty much what I see now is either Rogue 20Kg OPB or Eleiko. At some of the money meets of course you'll see TSB, Mastodon, and Bulldog bars for squats, but I'm seeing a lot of Rogue for bench and deadlift now.

Years and years ago, I could pretty much go to any meet and see a TPB being used, so guess which bar I bought...bingo! What bar is being used at a meet is a very logical way to invest in a bar.

As far as the optimal price point, Rogue has pretty much set it. While it's not my favorite bar, it's a damn hard to beat bar at that price. When Rogue releases the SS version, I can't see how any competing bar can justify being much higher than what Rogue is setting. The only reason to spend more would be to go with Eleiko, and there's just no reason to spend that premium if you're not an IPF lifter or compete in meets frequently where the Eleiko is being used.

I'll casually keep an interest in this bar. I know my buddy will be getting one, so I'll make sure to check it out when Duffin sends him one to try out.

[jimbuick]

The Iron Wolfe is back on the streets again....not sure when production starts, but that's the rumor. Th r best squat bar made...worth holing out for, IMO.

End of this year/beginning of next year is what I remember seeing for them to start production on the squat bars.

$1,000-$1,200 is a steep price though.

I was originally planning to hold out for it, but if the Kabuki is good (which it sounds like it will be), then I don't mind saving the $600.

[smokinHawk]

If it is any thinner than 30, I probably won't buy one. The bulldog is the one I am most interested in ATM and it is just under 32mm IIRC.

I'd really like Iron Wolfe, but I'm not trying to wait around for them to start production (early next year I believe they said) and then drop $1100.


Edit: link is live (posted above) and shows it is 32mm

Texas Squat Bar - 32mm (55lbs)
Bulldog Squat Bar - 35mm (65lbs)
Mastodon Squat Bar - 35mm (60lbs)
Iron Wolfe Squat Bat - 35mm (65lbs)

[Synthetickiller]

Duffin's ******** posted a strange video (the audio does not fit the tone at all, lol) of the bar in action.
Pre-Orders start tomorrow at 3PM.

Interestingly, one of the comments was "If I could afford and justify it."
Speaks volumes. If I had unlimited funds, I'd preorder both, just to do a review. I don't, so I won't. I'm extremely curious how using this bar, just not $600 curious.

[jimbuick]

Duffin's ******** posted a strange video (the audio does not fit the tone at all, lol) of the bar in action.
Pre-Orders start tomorrow at 3PM.

Interestingly, one of the comments was "If I could afford and justify it."
Speaks volumes. If I had unlimited funds, I'd preorder both, just to do a review. I don't, so I won't. I'm extremely curious how using this bar, just not $600 curious.

I might spring for the squat bar, if only because it is the same price as the bulldog I was planning on getting.

Although, it might be worth just getting the bulldog because it has a thicker diameter....

[thejosef]

Duffin's ******** posted a strange video (the audio does not fit the tone at all, lol) of the bar in action.
Pre-Orders start tomorrow at 3PM.

Yeah I saw that video, so he drops it on some pins with a bunch of weight.. Wow.. Impressive, I think. But then doesn't show if it's still straight after?? Weird. I guess we should just be impressed it didn't explode? I mean, for touting it as being so incredible, it would've been real impressive to see a straight bar after all those drops.

EDIT: Just watched it with sound and the music is hilarious. Lol. WTH?

[Mitcho7]

Videos are pretty informative ill admit.

I think id be more interested in these bars if they were stainless steel shaft with only the sleeves in zinc. I wonder if you get to chose between black zinc or clear zinc coating?

[Synthetickiller]

Look like Duffin put out more material on the bar:

[Hallowedlunch]

Interesting, I wonder what the rockwell of the Texas is. Duffin's bar does eat it like hardened steel eats mild steel. Not sure how that translates in real world use, but it is kinda fun. Interesting, watching the second video, it sounds like they are using similar to sword making technology to make these bars. With the file like ability, and higher rockwell, I wonder if they are using S7 or similar alloy.

[jimbuick]

I went ahead and ordered one right when the preorder went live. Hopefully, I got it early enough to receive mine in the first batch.

He had a few finishes available, each with a different price. I went with black oxide shaft and zinc sleeves. Almost did the whole thing in black, but didn't feel like spending another $20.

[Synthetickiller]

Here are pictures of the bars from the site.
I didn't realize that the power bar had a center line. I actually really like this. I wish more manufacturers would do this:


Here's the squat bar. Same center line. Same picture?


Did they reuse the same picture? They look identical.

I went ahead and ordered one right when the preorder went live. Hopefully, I got it early enough to receive mine in the first batch.

He had a few finishes available, each with a different price. I went with black oxide shaft and zinc sleeves. Almost did the whole thing in black, but didn't feel like spending another $20.

Glad you could be the Guinea pig this time around. You ordered the squat bar, right? You had mentioned it before, but I don't want to assume.
Not that you ordered black oxide at the request of anyone, but this makes me happy. I have been curious about Kabuki's black oxide treatment, but I can't justify spending the money to see if it's as good as Ivanko's version or not.


So what made you pull the trigger?

[vhd16]

Wonder what these proprietary process are where he says his bar will not snap due to higher RC ( new term ) and yield strength etc...or least chance of snapping

[jimbuick]

Here are pictures of the bars from the site.
I didn't realize that the power bar had a center line. I actually really like this. I wish more manufacturers would do this:


Here's the squat bar. Same center line. Same picture?


Did they reuse the same picture? They look identical.




Glad you could be the Guinea pig this time around. You ordered the squat bar, right? You had mentioned it before, but I don't want to assume.
Not that you ordered black oxide at the request of anyone, but this makes me happy. I have been curious about Kabuki's black oxide treatment, but I can't justify spending the money to see if it's as good as Ivanko's version or not.


So what made you pull the trigger?

Yeah, squat bar. I only went for it because I was in the market anyway (had been planning on getting a bulldog) and Chris claims his is going to be comparable in performance to that.

I asked him why they didn't go 35mm with it and he said that most comps use a 32mm (presumably the texas, which is debatable) and that 35mm pushes the bar too far from the centerline of the body. He said "if our bar will perform the same at 32, why go bigger" (paraphrase).

So we shall see. You arr always welcome to make the drive out to Houston after it comes in to get a squat session in. I'm not in as good of a position to review as some others because I only ever use a squat bar in competitions.

[Bench905]

Wonder what these proprietary process are where he says his bar will not snap due to higher RC ( new term ) and yield strength etc...or least chance of snapping

I think he cupped the bar with the Kabuki cupping set and then slapped on a pair of knockoff OSO collars.

[vhd16]

I think he cupped the bar with the Kabuki cupping set and then slapped on a pair of knockoff OSO collars.

looks like you think this is just hype..

[jimbuick]

I think he cupped the bar with the Kabuki cupping set and then slapped on a pair of knockoff OSO collars.

Well, those knockoff collars hold damn well for $20 less than the OSOs, so....

[Synthetickiller]

Well, those knockoff collars hold damn well for $20 less than the OSOs, so....

I saw a few bad reviews on Kabuki's site.
What bars are you using them on? How easy are they to use? $20 less is not bad. Please tell you got the fire orange. Any pics?

[jimbuick]

I saw a few bad reviews on Kabuki's site.
What bars are you using them on? How easy are they to use? $20 less is not bad. Please tell you got the fire orange. Any pics?

I've used them on the Duffalo, Ohio Deadlift, Ivanko EZ curl, and Texas Power bars.

They are incredibly easy to use; although, they are a littls tough to slide on and off when you first get them. I still have to "unlock" them to slide on and off and I have had them for a while. I have a good amount of collars (Vintage York, Uesaka Competition, Lockjaws, etc.) and I use the kabuki more often than any of the others.

Definitely went fire orange, but I don't have any pictures handy. Maybe I'll get some tomorrow before I start training and post them in here. Anything in particular that you would like to see?

[Synthetickiller]

I was just curious to see how they looked is all, lol.
Oh, PM sent btw!

[jimbuick]

I was just curious to see how they looked is all, lol.
Oh, PM sent btw!

Actually, I got this when I first got them in.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BRZJAC3gEwP/

I responded to your PM, btw.

[jimbuick]

Saw a comment Duffin made where he claimed the electroless nickel is better than stainless steel. He also said most vendors can't even offer the finish because of "tank size," whatever that means. I don't know anything about the finish.

Hopefully, someone on here will get the finish on a bar and compare it. I haven't used it or SS on a barbell.

[Bench905]

looks like you think this is just hype..

I wasn't saying that - I'm just not a fan of those two products. But yes - touting the 258k number is hype. There's been bars above that - I listed them in one thread, but off the top of my head, the AF Klokov bar was 264k. Not sure who really cares anymore about these tensile strength numbers except the manufacturers who try to sell the gear.

Well, those knockoff collars hold damn well for $20 less than the OSOs, so....

I just think it's a little disingenuous that he originally called them Kabuki Strength collars when clearly another company (OSO) did the design and KS is more than likely buying knockoffs from China.
And then posts quotes like this:

"There's no reason the fitness equipment industry can't support high-end, innovative equipment."
"We are proud to say that ALL of our products are manufactured right here in the US of A by hard working men and women."

So either they stole the design and knocked it off themselves in-house or they're just importing knockoffs and lying that all of their products are manufactured in the US. Not sure which is worse.

[jimbuick]

I wasn't saying that - I'm just not a fan of those two products. But yes - touting the 258k number is hype. There's been bars above that - I listed them in one thread, but off the top of my head, the AF Klokov bar was 264k. Not sure who really cares anymore about these tensile strength numbers except the manufacturers who try to sell the gear.



I just think it's a little disingenuous that he originally called them Kabuki Strength collars when clearly another company (OSO) did the design and KS is more than likely buying knockoffs from China.
And then posts quotes like this:

"There's no reason the fitness equipment industry can't support high-end, innovative equipment."
"We are proud to say that ALL of our products are manufactured right here in the US of A by hard working men and women."

So either they stole the design and knocked it off themselves in-house or they're just importing knockoffs and lying that all of their products are manufactured in the US. Not sure which is worse.

I don't have any reason to believe they are made in China, do you? If you have some evidence of that, I'd like to know what it is. False advertising claims are pretty serious to me, so if he is claiming they are made in the U.S. when they aren't; well...

He may not have come up with the design (I don't know what came first, and had only heard of the oso collar when you mentioned it), but I know the collar he offers works damn well. I also now know it works damn well for less money than other collars that are built similarly.

That's good enough for me.

[Bench905]

I don't have any reason to believe they are made in China, do you? If you have some evidence of that, I'd like to know what it is. False advertising claims are pretty serious to me, so if he is claiming they are made in the U.S. when they aren't; well...

I don't have the bill of sale from China...but there's a boatload of other Chinese knockoff collars all over eBay/Amazon/wherever that look exactly like his. And the Chinese companies will print whatever you want on it. I can tell the difference between genuine OSO collars and a knockoff - but the knockoffs look all the same.

He may not have come up with the design (I don't know what came first, and had only heard of the oso collar when you mentioned it),

For others reading, he definitely DID NOT come up with the design. It's not a "may or may not" issue...he didn't. Rogue started carrying OSO collars in Feb 2015 (so they were definitely around way before that) - Kabuki announced their collars in late September 2016. The OSOs were patent pending when they came out - so not sure what's holding up the patents. And patents will obviously not stop the Chinese companies from ripping them off. Now a US retailer selling a knockoff of a patented product, that might be an issue.

There just seems like a lot of hypocrisy. I wonder how he would feel if Rogue knocked off the Duffalo or Shoulderok.

[jimbuick]

I don't have the bill of sale from China...but there's a boatload of other Chinese knockoff collars all over eBay/Amazon/wherever that look exactly like his. And the Chinese companies will print whatever you want on it. I can tell the difference between genuine OSO collars and a knockoff - but the knockoffs look all the same.



For others reading, he definitely DID NOT come up with the design. It's not a "may or may not" issue...he didn't. Rogue started carrying OSO collars in Feb 2015 (so they were definitely around way before that) - Kabuki announced their collars in late September 2016. The OSOs were patent pending when they came out - so not sure what's holding up the patents. And patents will obviously not stop the Chinese companies from ripping them off. Now a US retailer selling a knockoff of a patented product, that might be an issue.

There just seems like a lot of hypocrisy. I wonder how he would feel if Rogue knocked off the Duffalo or Shoulderok.

Ok, so, you don't have any evidence that kabuki doesn't manufacture the collars then.

If the OSO collar has a patent then they should definitely pursue legal action if they are being infringed upon. If they don't have a patent, then it really doesn't matter. It is no different than titan making a rack that looks like Rogue, but selling it cheaper (although, Titan does actually manufacture in China obviously).

Again, all I know for sure is the kabuki collar holds better than any other collar I have used, and if OSO holds just as well (which I doubt, to be honest), then Kabuki still does it for $20 less.

[RestoringTally]

Again, all I know for sure is the kabuki collar holds better than any other collar I have used, and if OSO holds just as well (which I doubt to be honest), then Kabuki still does it for $20 less.

Got any evidence about the performance of OSO collars or do you just like to make unfounded assertions about equipment that compete with products that you have bought?

One nice thing about the Equipment Forum is that most of the opinions, and all the valued opinions, are based on personal experience or verifiable information. You keep making disparaging comments about OSO collars because you like your knockoffs. Good for you. But so far I have not seen anything from you that establishes your credibility, just that you are biased toward something you bought.

[Hardgains88]

Got any evidence about the performance of OSO collars or do you just like to make unfounded assertions about equipment that compete with products that you have bought?

One nice thing about the Equipment Forum is that most of the opinions, and all the valued opinions, are based on personal experience or verifiable information. You keep making disparaging comments about OSO collars because you like your knockoffs. Good for you. But so far I have not seen anything from you that establishes your credibility, just that you are biased toward something you bought.

Wow, chris duffin steal your car? you seem a little bit hostile. i am not sure what Jim said or did that was in any possible way so offensive to you. I have read other posts of yours and you seem on point and rational, so I feel like im missing something.
The exercise equipment industry is so static, theres not a lot of big inovation or big leaps in performance like cycling and other equipment industries. lets face it, duffins "slightly different curve in barbell" is actually up there in game changer barbell designs for the past few years. when a company creates something like a collar, that is similar to another collar, whos only uniqueness in itself is the neat machining, im not really seeing the massive violation you seem to be reacting too.
Knocking off such basic stuff is pretty common in the industry even amoung american companies, because theres not a lot of rocket science to it, how many new ways are you genuinely going to find to hold a round clamp to a barbell.
All Jim said was he liked the collars and was impressed because they were $20 less. You suddenly attacked the dude on multiple levels, calling into question the value of anything he has said on the forum.
Your stated issue being he makes unsubstantiated comments, yet your the one claiming kabuki is secretly violating all sorts of federal laws by importing a cheaply made knockoff collar and advertising them made in usa. ... based soley on the fact that "i can tell cheap knockoff oso collars... and those look like cheap knockoff Chinese oso collars". compelling evidence dude! Lol
Im going to go out on a limb, you just had a bad day?

[Synthetickiller]

Children, children, simmer down!
I sent over a question about the collars. Hopefully, I'll get a reply soon.


Is it so hard to ask the company selling the collars where they are manufactured? You guys are silly.

[jimbuick]

Got any evidence about the performance of OSO collars or do you just like to make unfounded assertions about equipment that compete with products that you have bought?

One nice thing about the Equipment Forum is that most of the opinions, and all the valued opinions, are based on personal experience or verifiable information. You keep making disparaging comments about OSO collars because you like your knockoffs. Good for you. But so far I have not seen anything from you that establishes your credibility, just that you are biased toward something you bought.

I only made one assertion about OSO collars; that assertion was that they cost more money than the Kabuki collars do. That isn't unfounded and is easily verifiable if you care to check.

I never even said the Kabuki were better. I only said they hold better than any other collar that *I* have used and that *if* OSO has the same hold then Kabuki still does it for less (again, easily verifiable and not at all unfounded).

Thanks for playing.