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    Lightbulb A modern day Classical Education.

    In my other thread (https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...4460031&page=1), I made a point about a classical education, or an education based off of a historical classical education, could be of great benefit to people who are interested in becoming a well rounded person. It can, as my main argument said, help to offset the crap that we fill our minds with everyday.

    First, it is more of a lifestyle change than anything. In order to seriously progress, you will be reading a lot, at least an hour a day. In order to do that, sacrifices will have to be made, and you will have to have the willpower, at least initially, to read and study for that long everyday. It is your choice if you want to do this; you might not get to watch DBS or the latest Walking Dead. It is your choice and you will have to chose yourself if you want to or not.

    Now, a classical education, historically speaking, was an education that was modeled off of the Greek education. There were three parts to a Classical education. The first was the Trivium, or how to learn phase, which consisted of grammar, rhetoric, and logic. The second phase was the Quadrivium, or the mathematical phase, which consisted of Mathematics, Geometry, Music, and Astronomy. The final phase, or the Tertiary education, was something akin to an apprenticeship or a study of something like philosophy/history.

    Now, sense we now live in the modern day society, I think that this blueprint should be revised a bit. The Trivium, or first phase, is a fundamental aspect, and should not be changed. The second and third phases should be revisited.

    For the second phase, I think that geometry and mathematics should be grouped together, Music and Astronomy should remain, and the addition of Philosophy/Literature should be the fourth topic of study.

    For the final phase, I think that it should be an education that is focused on modern day society, understanding how it works, and how to use the knew knowledge you have acquired to its fullest potential.


    All of this begs the question: why should I study these topics, and why in the order listed?

    First, the Trivium. The Trivium is a method of efficiently learning. It covers the most fundamental aspects of learning and debate/discussion/critical analysis.

    The grammar, or the understanding of language, is the MOST fundamental aspect of learning anything. If one does not have a great understanding of this, they will have a much harder time of understanding anything at all. I believe that, the better you understand a language, the smarter you will be. You will have far more building blocks with which to express your thoughts, and your interior thoughts will become much more refined and... (Here, my mind went blank. If I had a word to clearly express what I wanted to say, I could have made a convincing point had I had the word readily available.) A lack of words with which to use will make you not just seem dumber, but you won't be able to articulate relatively complex thoughts. (This position might be controversial, and I am not sure if I even support it. I am happy to discuss it though.) Traditionally, this portion of learning was taught through Latin and Greek. The Romantic languages (Italian, French, Spanish, Romanian, Portuguese.) get over 90% of their language from Latin, and most of their technical/medical words from Greek. The figure is 60% for English, and 90% for all scientific words.

    Secondly, Logic. Now, this is probably one of my favorite subjects. Understanding how to think efficiently and clearly can be one of the greatest aspects of development that is severely underrated. To think rationally is really rare and unusual. Psychology points out that much of what we do is decided by our subconscious, and we are not even aware why we make certain decisions. Traditionally, this subject was taught through Aristotelian logic, although there are now many different, and modern strategies to learning logical thinking. It is good to review Aristotelian logic too, but there has been lots of development in this field.

    Finally, rhetoric, or debate. This is the subject that combines grammar and logic and presents those ideas to the world for everyone to observe, analyze, and critique. This is the study of persuasion, public speaking, writing, and critical analysis. When you have mastered this subject, you will be great at debate and fundamentally understanding people's arguments (Assuming they are logical.) and will be able to try and rationally debate the subject's truth. Lots of great literature on this topic, although I haven't done much with this subject (I have some catching up to do.). Also a lot of self help books fall under this umbrella (Such as Influence, the Power of Persuasion, 48 laws of power, etc.)

    Once you have an understanding of these three things, and have mastered them in your life, you should be capable of learning and understanding things more efficiently, clearly, and at a more fundamental level.



    The second aspect is the quadrivium. This phase focused on using those skills acquired and using them to learn two things: the beauty of learning and the beauty/harmony of the world. Now, I don't think it is the best way to see the beauty of the world, but the subjects are really good for being a rounded person. Therefore, I will lightly touch on each subject.

    Mathematics, used in every single science, end, full stop. Should be a subject that everyone loves and appreciates. You don't need to be good at it, but it is good to understand. It will help you become a more logical person (Math IS logic applied to numbers. ), and it will help you to learn science in a very detailed way.

    Music is a subject that everyone loves, but what is there to study about it? There is a whole subject, called music theory, that explores the order and structure of music. If you don't want to study music theory (I will be studying it this fall when school starts, as an elective.), expanding your portfolio is a really good way to cultivate this aspect. Go to some concerts, symphonies, edms, etc, really branch out and learn about all types of music.*

    Astronomy might be the most pointless on this list, but it is the ******* best. It is awesome staring at the sky, understanding and knowing every single constellation, the stories behind each, and the movements of the celestial objects as they move throughout the year. Not only that, but once you get good at it, you have an easy romantic date that girls will love. Go out to a hill, bring a blanket (maybe some snacks.) and give her a tour of the stars, and the stories behind each constellation. It will be one of the most unique dates she will have ever been on, and she will love it. (I know from experience. If there is one thing you take to heart, take this to heart. Astronomy is awesome.)

    Finally, philosophy/literature. If anyone has been following my old thread, you will have noticed that Azn00Superman and I were debating the value of different types of literature. It was a really nice debate, and actually changed a few of my views. For the purposes of this education, however, I will recommend this guideline to reading books:

    1st, they must be books that were really influential.
    2nd. they must be books that are taxing to read (Taxing in that they expand your vocabulary and make you think and use logic to make it through.)
    3rd. They must be read in a chronological order (Oldest books first, read up to newer books.)

    Traditionally, this section was devoted only to philosophy and classical literature, but my debate with Azn00Superman made me decide to change my guideline and recommended reading list slightly.



    Finally, the Tertiary phase. This phase was traditionally the trade you would support yourself with, but that is irrelevant to modern day purposes. Now, I think that this would be a good place to focus on learning about modern culture/literature, technology, finances, cooking, politics, chess/card games, and other miscellaneous topics that will make you an interesting person. Here, you chose whatever floats your boat, just make sure to be dedicated to it and not to overwhelm yourself with too many hobbies. Your studies, work, and relationships will already take a ton of time up, so you will need to budget your time here.


    Finally, how should someone implement these subjects into their life? The way I am currently doing it (Believe me, I have a long way to go before I finish this list, or to have given myself a "classical" education.) is by implementing each phase into a certain time frame, and attacking it as hard as possible until I have a reasonable grasp of it.

    For the Trivium, each subject can be focused on for a month, or all three can be done simultaneously for three months (Unless you are going to study Latin/Greek; if so, strap yourself in for a lifelong learning experience, and mastering 8-9 languages when you are older.).

    The second and third phases can, and should be done, simultaneously. There is no reason to stop all modern literature just so you can read Dante's Inferno, or Critique of Pure Reason by Kant, or relearning (Or learning.) Calculus 3. That is impractical and will set you back in the long run. Try and focus slightly more (66% > 33%) on the quadrivium over the Tertiary, simply because most people will have a jump-start on modern day learning.


    Any criticisms and comments are welcome, this is a rough guide, and there are probably better. Nevertheless, this is my best effort at explaining what I think is a good education that is based off of a classical education. You will be a much more rounded, interesting person if you learn these subjects.

    *Except pop and country, they can get a pass.
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    I didn't read that
    ayy lmao
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    READING FOR EACH SUBJECT (I will need some help/suggestions as I have a lot of reading to do, and I am certain that many of you have read about some of these subjects, and can aid me in making a comprehensive reading list for these subjects.)



    Grammar:

    IF Learning Latin: Henle Latin series is your friend. It was written by a Catholic Priest (So there is lots of Catholic references in there.), but it is a really good way to learn reading the Latin texts of Caesar and others. The entire course is meant to be taken in 4 years. After two years you will be very proficient.

    IF Learning Ancient Greek: There are lots of free pdfs in the public domain. http://www.textkit.com/greek_grammar.php

    If you don't have time to learn a new language, the best way for language acquisition is to focus on reading older English literature. They spoke and wrote differently back then, which will help to expand both your vocabulary and your sentence structure.

    Logic:

    https://www.amazon.com/Concise-Intro.../dp/0840034164
    https://www.amazon.com/Art-Thinking-.../dp/0062219693


    Rhetoric:
    The books I have read aren't so much about argument analysis, but more about persuasion. Please help here!
    https://www.amazon.com/Social-Engine.../dp/0470639539
    https://www.amazon.com/Unmasking-Soc.../dp/1118608577

    Mathematics: Get a textbook and get to work. A really good book that many self learners will use is Saxon Math, start with Algebra 1, work to Pre Calc. Takes about 25 minutes to do a lesson a day. (DO NOT USE SAXON IF YOU ARE AN ENGINEER, YOU WILL WASTE YOUR MONEY, IN FACT, SKIP MATH IF YOU ARE AN ENGINEER.)

    Music: Just listen and diversify your portfolio. If you really want to buy a history of music or take a music theory class.

    Literature/Philosophy: In my other thread, a poster awared me of a reading list created by Mortimer J. Alder. It would have saved me a lot of research had I known about this list sooner. It is close to what I have been doing, so I will post his list here. (It is very ambitious and will take a long time to get through. Don't worry though, any education like this will take years anyway.) https://thinkingasleverage.wordpress...-reading-list/

    Astronomy:
    https://neave.com/planetarium/
    Besides that, there are lots of backyard astronomy books. If you really want to get into it nasa.gov, space.com, Astronomy.com. Also get a book on ancient Greek Mythology, the constellation will make more sense and you will have an experience once you see how the constellations are closely related.


    The Tertiary: Pick 2 or 3 hobbies and really learn them well.


    Any criticisms and comments are welcome, this is a rough guide, and there are probably better. Nevertheless, this is my best effort at explaining what I think is a good education that is based off of a classical education. You will be a much more rounded, interesting person if you go about and learn these subjects.
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    Registered User AngusPeppered's Avatar
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    Good for you for wanting to learn stuff but you're not going to stick with it unless you enjoy doing it. Personally I don't see the point of this, too much time and not enough practical learning but if you enjoy it go for it. I read about 5 hours during the days of summer when I have nothing better to do but that's because I'm not really looking to improve myself I just enjoy doing it and learnings new things or reading some creative fictional stories
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    Originally Posted by AngusPeppered View Post
    Good for you for wanting to learn stuff but you're not going to stick with it unless you enjoy doing it. Personally I don't see the point of this, too much time and not enough practical learning but if you enjoy it go for it. I read about 5 hours during the days of summer when I have nothing better to do but that's because I'm not really looking to improve myself I just enjoy doing it and learnings new things or reading some creative fictional stories
    Well, yes, I do enjoy it.

    Again, NO ONE HAS TO DO ANY OF THIS, this is just what I am doing.
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    Personally I think high school should cover the modern day classical education, though that is difficult to get in while you are developing and learning the basics. I suppose you do get that in really good high schools.

    Learning about business, STEM, or money in general should be the focus in college. The reality is our world is becoming much more dependent on technology, and I'm not sure one has enough time to get up to speed with that while still having the "classical education," unless they go to grad school ofcourse.
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    I think most high rank universities force you to take most of those as GE requirements, and the mathematical part is fundamental in any STEM degree. Because I had to take all of that astronomy included.
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    You can make this easier, and more useful to yourself by focusing only on the things which will make you more formidable in the business world, and by understanding human psychology.

    Influence, 48 laws of Power, and those types are not really self help books. Those deal with real life situations/historical events, and will help you more than what you are doing here. It's good to be well rounded, but you run the risk of being a jack of all trades, but a master of none.

    I take it that you have not read 48 laws of Power, or any of Robert Greene's book. He analyzes historical events, and gives you the results of the decisions businessmen and commanders made.

    That's exactly the information you need.
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    Op, the people who studied this chit back in the day were the higher class who had slaves who did all their chit for them so they could study all day.

    Either that or it was homeless bums who had nothing better to do like Socrates or Diogenes.

    Hence why most ancient philosophy is written by the upper class of society.

    This isn't ancient Greece or the Renaissance where we have nothing better to do than study chit, make telescopes, or paint a fresco..... muthaphuckas in this day and age have bills to pay.

    Times have changed.
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    Some idiot MrBourbon's Avatar
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    Inb4 Azn00Superman posts an angry reply that's longer than the OP
    Smooth Seas don't make Strong Sailors. Keep your head up.

    Blowing out someone else's candle wont make yours glow any brighter (no homo).
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    Originally Posted by doughnutking View Post
    Op, the people who studied this chit back in the day were the higher class who had slaves who did all their chit for them so they could study all day.

    Either that or it was homeless bums who had nothing better to do like Socrates or Diogenes.

    Hence why most ancient philosophy is written by the upper class of society.

    This isn't ancient Greece or the Renaissance where we have nothing better to do than study chit, make telescopes, or paint a fresco..... muthaphuckas in this day and age have bills to pay.

    Times have changed.
    Socrates is remembered as the greatest bum of history.... Lol that mental image.

    Seriously though, you will be forgotten in 15 years with the attitude you have, so keep at it.
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    Originally Posted by WarriorRustler View Post
    You can make this easier, and more useful to yourself by focusing only on the things which will make you more formidable in the business world, and by understanding human psychology.

    Influence, 48 laws of Power, and those types are not really self help books. Those deal with real life situations/historical events, and will help you more than what you are doing here. It's good to be well rounded, but you run the risk of being a jack of all trades, but a master of none.

    I take it that you have not read 48 laws of Power, or any of Robert Greene's book. He analyzes historical events, and gives you the results of the decisions businessmen and commanders made.

    That's exactly the information you need.
    I started 48 laws, got about half way through in one sitting, and I never picked it up again. Didn't really help all that much.


    Edit: half is an exaggeration. More like to the 21 law or something, I really don't remember. It was last summer at Barnes and Noble.
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    Originally Posted by nbk92 View Post
    I think most high rank universities force you to take most of those as GE requirements, and the mathematical part is fundamental in any STEM degree. Because I had to take all of that astronomy included.
    NO way that any university, unless you are specifically getting a degree in philosophy/literature, will EVER make you read as much as I am proposing/doing, and it will be taught from a liberal/feminist viewpoint.
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    Originally Posted by mrbourbon View Post
    inb4 azn00superman posts an angry reply that's longer than the op
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    nah bro I'm sweet
    When it all comes down
    There'll be nothing left to catch you but ground
    It's calling your name and filling your head
    With delusions of glory
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    I've read half of that reading list. Even that is enormously time consuming for anyone with any kind of life

    Honestly I can see no reason to put yourself through the pain of some of those books if it's not required for some kind of academic endeavor. Most on that list are dull as ditch water, torturous and hugely time consuming to get through..... Imo just looking up the key ideas or taking courses on the history of thought/literature would be a much better use of time as you'll forget the details of the books anyway

    Honorable exceptions: Epictetus, new testament, meditations, Montaigne, Tolstoy, Nietzsche, Dostoevsky, Marx, Freud, Kafka, Proust, Sartre (Camus is better and more accessible though), stolzhenytsin

    I've read nothing like that lately and almost exclusively read history, pop science and fantasy. It's a far more enjoyable experience srs

    You should read anything you're interested in or that you enjoy, not follow an obscure list because it seems high brow
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  17. #17
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    Did not read srs
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