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  1. #61
    Registered User Enragingboner's Avatar
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    "This culture is terrifying, in the sense that we have lost all respect for virtue and replaced it with a love of vices. This will cause great suffering and evil to continue, which will be felt when we are old, and by our children's children; they will live through great suffering for the sins of our fathers. We will never be able to change the world, but we can change many people. "

    Thanks OP, this really hit home for me. Sometimes I feel as if I am drifting towards one vice to another, especially sex recently...
    Goldfishy btw
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  2. #62
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    Got anything to read for being trapped in the head and not having the balls to do even menial things sometimes? Im constantly overanalysing every situation and my life suffers greatly from it.


    Also good read brah. Been pretty down lately and the idea u presented of quality of thoughts equals quality of life hit pretty home for me.



    Also pls aware about goldfish
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  3. #63
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    Originally Posted by NuperSatural View Post
    Got anything to read for being trapped in the head and not having the balls to do even menial things sometimes? Im constantly overanalysing every situation and my life suffers greatly from it.


    Also good read brah. Been pretty down lately and the idea u presented of quality of thoughts equals quality of life hit pretty home for me.



    Also pls aware about goldfish
    strong 1st post to join date ratio. 10/10 would read again repped (fuark on r/c)
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  4. #64
    Registered User Azn00Superman's Avatar
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    Was with OP up to the third paragraph. I'm assuming OP's saying that in order to be virtuous and lead a happy life, you need to read old books and consume antiquated media. ****ing lol.

    Then he made the point about how modern people view Kardashian and Kanye as entertainment, and how in history Shakespeare and Bach are entertainment. Strong retard and his generalization. Most people don't care about the Kardashians or Kayne. There are 7 billions human on this planet if you forgot. And Shakespeare and Bach were entertainment for a very small subset of people, people who could afford it. Most civillians were laborers and illiterates. Just because you sample a high point of literature and music in a period doesn't mean it's the peak of humanity. For what's it's worth, Shakespeare were regarded as low brow entertainment back then, too.

    I get it, OP read one book and he thinks he's Demosthenes. The better advice to become a more well rounded, happy person is to live in the presence, be conscious and learn. Read all kinds of books.To understand human condition you don't have to read old ass books. Read fiction, good and bad, they ALL have something to say about the human condition, just because it's new or it's written to entertain doesn't mean it's full of chit. Read non-fiction about far off places, reading about other people's struggles. Watch documentaries. Observe and form your own philosophy and directives in life, changing it as you learn more things and adapt instead of reading ancient books and parroting someone's opinion thousands of years ago.

    Although I agree with not reading self-help books. Those are useless.
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  5. #65
    Registered User Kabamaro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nickboy333 View Post
    BRB everybody including self-help gurus are just re-writing what Stoics (Marcus Aurelius, etc) have written 2000 years ago and selling it to make money.

    It's a bull**** industry just like any other.

    Let me give you some real red pill: 99% of humans are slaves to their environment and genetics. If you have **** education, **** parenting, etc...you will be ****. And it will take time to turn it around.

    Forget religious bull****. Be rational, be humble, focus on scientific reasoning like the Stoics, and eventually piece by piece you will fix your ****ty life.
    This

    I believe my issue is poor self-esteem. To improve it I need to take action: Achieve something I'm passionate about, lookmaxx, having compatible friends.etc

    A lot of this is environment and our culture today is too fuked up to get all of this done at the same time especially as an FA

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  6. #66
    Some idiot MrBourbon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Azn00Superman View Post
    Was with OP up to the third paragraph. I'm assuming OP's saying that in order to be virtuous and lead a happy life, you need to read old books and consume antiquated media. ****ing lol.
    You should read the book OP recommended fellow bookbrah. It's an 11/10 read.
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  7. #67
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    I think some self help books are worth the read. You can learn about whatever topic you want, but until you learn to clear your mind of whatever bull**** is bothering you you'll never make the time, nor the space in your head to do so.

    With that being said. I am totally in to learn more about this classical education thing.
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  8. #68
    Registered User Azn00Superman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MrBourbon View Post
    You should read the book OP recommended fellow bookbrah. It's an 11/10 read.
    Will read srs. No hate on old books but lol at OP thinking reading a bunch of them will lead to some mental ascension.
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  9. #69
    Some idiot MrBourbon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Azn00Superman View Post
    Will read srs. No hate on old books but lol at OP thinking reading a bunch of them will lead to some mental ascension.
    Old = better is a stupid rule of thumb that applies to more than just books (music is a BIG one, older bands are "real"er for some stupid reason).

    It's not hype in this case. This is one of the most-marked up books on my shelf, and you can easily read it in a sitting.

    It's also one of those books where the author doesn't really bring anything new to the table, he just expresses things we all know deep down in a way that makes you see and appreciate them more profoundly.
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  10. #70
    Registered User makadelic's Avatar
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    What you're saying kinda reminds me of the book The Secret. Definitely believe that thoughts become things and manifest themselves in all parts of life and that gratitude goes a long way. I used to think my thoughts were my own and it didn't really matter if I was negative in my own mind here and there. That book is a little metaphysical but it still changed my life.

    Knowing that you will be held accountable to negative thought patterns in other aspects of life really woke me up. It was actually crazy how drastically my life improved when I consciously began to remove negative thoughts every time they would appear. Made my older brother read it too and the same happened for him.

    Don't necessarily believe a classical education is the answer but I definitely appreciated mine and think it has added value to my life to learn different ways of thinking.
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  11. #71
    Registered User Iakovos's Avatar
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    Awesome post Opie, appreciate you wanting to help out your fellow miscers. Eagerly awaiting your reading list as I chill out here with my pet goldfish Bob.
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  12. #72
    Registered User Iakovos's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AndYUKnowThis View Post
    Goldfish


    Honestly sounds like a bunch of mumbo jumbo, but I guess that's because I'm more of a hardcore realist. I see the world as this cold hard place, void of anything colorful, artistic, etc. This is just the truth, humanity will never change. If I could get rich off exploiting retarded sheep I would, because sheep deserve to be exploited, they don't deserve a good life.

    I've pretty much lost all faith in the world and just focus on myself being happy, we're at the point of no return
    Why not seek to find happiness in helping others find happiness? If you see the fault in ppls nature why not counter that by a light that you see lacking and shining it for others to benefit as well? Sounds corny I know but...why not? Be that which you find lacking in others and let it lift you and the others.
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  13. #73
    Registered User xN1CKx's Avatar
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    In. Subbed. Thanks OP. Goldfish.
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  14. #74
    Registered User Arthax's Avatar
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  15. #75
    ส็็็็็็็ ็็็็็็็ ็็็ ส็็็ Suqat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Azn00Superman View Post
    Was with OP up to the third paragraph. I'm assuming OP's saying that in order to be virtuous and lead a happy life, you need to read old books and consume antiquated media. ****ing lol.

    Then he made the point about how modern people view Kardashian and Kanye as entertainment, and how in history Shakespeare and Bach are entertainment. Strong retard and his generalization. Most people don't care about the Kardashians or Kayne. There are 7 billions human on this planet if you forgot. And Shakespeare and Bach were entertainment for a very small subset of people, people who could afford it. Most civillians were laborers and illiterates. Just because you sample a high point of literature and music in a period doesn't mean it's the peak of humanity. For what's it's worth, Shakespeare were regarded as low brow entertainment back then, too.

    I get it, OP read one book and he thinks he's Demosthenes. The better advice to become a more well rounded, happy person is to live in the presence, be conscious and learn. Read all kinds of books.To understand human condition you don't have to read old ass books. Read fiction, good and bad, they ALL have something to say about the human condition, just because it's new or it's written to entertain doesn't mean it's full of chit. Read non-fiction about far off places, reading about other people's struggles. Watch documentaries. Observe and form your own philosophy and directives in life, changing it as you learn more things and adapt instead of reading ancient books and parroting someone's opinion thousands of years ago.

    Although I agree with not reading self-help books. Those are useless.
    I will address each paragraph in a single point.

    1. If you think that my argument is "older is better," then you are completely missing the mark. Of course there will be progress in certain areas such as science and literature. There will always be new and exciting scientific discoveries; there will always be incredible works of literature penned (or typed) in the future, and even right now! There is a point, however, in older is better. In regards to literature, the best is remembered, and the rest forgotten to everyone but specialized historians. Those ancient texts that survived to this day survived through thousands of years. Think about how incredible a feat that is. If the internet did not exist, probably .0001% of modern day literature would survive 1000 years. The stuff that survives is the stuff that changed the ideas of humanity in a radical way.

    TL;DR old classics are classics for a reason. They heavily influenced Western Civilization. That doesn't mean there are not good books that I would recommend from modern times. A balance is key.

    2. It is certainly true, aside from the derogatory statement, that most people throughout history were illiterate, and did not have the time to indulge in the liberal arts. That doesn't necessarily confirm or deny anything about my contrast between modern day "art" and ancient art.

    I won't lie; I do have a bias against the mass culture. It is absolutely disgusting, and I would think you would have a hard time finding any normal person that wouldn't agree. It is a culture of hedonism, a culture that believes pure pleasure is the goal of life. Power is a method to obtain pleasure, money is a method to obtain pleasure, and sex is a method to obtain pleasure. The entire entertainment industry, hell, the ENTIRE industry, is poised to give people as much pleasure to make them fools. They live their lives not knowing any better, but they do not live to their potential.

    Two more things, and I will move on to your final paragraph. First, in contrasting Bach to someone like Kayne; people would say that Bach's music is objectively more beautiful that Kayne's music. That is a fact. There might be nothing wrong to listening to Kayne. I listen to heavy metal when working out, (Trivium ftw.). But when the staple of the culture IS Kayne, and people like him are regarded as models of success, then I believe something is wrong. Secondly, in pointing out that Shakespeare was regarded as low entertainment directly supports my point that timeless, endearing works of Western Culture will survive the test of time. This means that they have a quality that resonates with the human condition, and are worth reading/watching (Really, they are. It is good literature. Shakespeare ftw.).

    3. Again, there are many good books in modern times. There are many good books throughout history. The timeless ones will be worthwhile reads, while modern day ones will be hit and misses (Good might be considered bad right now and vice versa.). That is why I recommend reading classics first, and then reading modern day books later. You have a limited time on this Earth, so I would read a book guaranteed to change your outlook than a book that could potentially be mundane.

    4. My point is that a brain filled with garbage will not benefit from self help books, the thought must change. Elisha Long is my go-to guy for self help material. He has read many self help books, and he has benefited greatly from it. He also has a great youtube channel if anyone is interested. Got banned from the misc, he was one of the reasons I noticed this forum. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvF...gQWOw0KZJsVNXQ
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  16. #76
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    Now, there are many people that have asked me for a reading list, and I must currently state that I do not have any sort of comprehensive reading list that I have personally created. One day I googled good books every man should read. Found a list, and it has been my go-to list for fiction every sense (Also found Art of Manliness through that search. It is a pretty good blog overall. A little too ancient for my tastes, but it might be up your alley. Lots of good, practical advice. ). http://www.artofmanliness.com/2016/1...very-man-read/

    Currently, in terms of non fiction I am currently focusing on Philosophy, as I will have school in the fall, and I won't be able to read at a reasonable pace for a few months. I am currently attempting to read the literature of major philosophers that have heavily influenced Western Civilization. I am reading in a sequential manner: the old philosophers influenced and were challenged by newer philosophers, so it is important to start at the beginning and work your way down. For instance, when I first started out, I started with the Illiad and Odyssey (More as a background to understand Greek culture, to further my understanding of the Greek culture that influenced the Greek philosophy.), many of the dialogues of Plato, moved on to Aristotle. Continue down the line until the current day. Briefly study the climate of the time period, read some of the famous philosophical books of the time. Again, philosophy is only one part, and shouldn't take up any crazy part of your day. Currently do about 30 min of philosophy, and 30 min of any fiction before bed, unless I am extremely tired.

    I can give a list of exact books that I have read, but a lot of the fiction are on the list in the link I posted, about 20 or so are not. I will explain what I view a "classical education" should cover tomorrow. Goodnight!
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  17. #77
    Registered User Realclout's Avatar
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    Any new updates in the self help/positivity thread today?


    Hope everybody is doing well! Lately Ive been looking for a job. Making pretty big improvements to my diet to improve sustainability. Of course I have been reading.

    I follow Gary Vaynerchuk on youtube he put out some great content. He always talks about, Documenting your journey which I started doing recored a vlog style video and threw it up on Youtube after 2 days I got 1 view and 1 sub, Ayyye! Been trying to grow my instagram and twitter also. Lately I've been thinking that I should start growing my social media now so that latter on I can leverage it when I have more going for me.
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  18. #78
    Registered User Azn00Superman's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Suqat View Post
    I will address each paragraph in a single point.

    1. If you think that my argument is "older is better," then you are completely missing the mark. Of course there will be progress in certain areas such as science and literature. There will always be new and exciting scientific discoveries; there will always be incredible works of literature penned (or typed) in the future, and even right now! There is a point, however, in older is better. In regards to literature, the best is remembered, and the rest forgotten to everyone but specialized historians. Those ancient texts that survived to this day survived through thousands of years. Think about how incredible a feat that is. If the internet did not exist, probably .0001% of modern day literature would survive 1000 years. The stuff that survives is the stuff that changed the ideas of humanity in a radical way.

    TL;DR old classics are classics for a reason. They heavily influenced Western Civilization. That doesn't mean there are not good books that I would recommend from modern times. A balance is key.

    2. It is certainly true, aside from the derogatory statement, that most people throughout history were illiterate, and did not have the time to indulge in the liberal arts. That doesn't necessarily confirm or deny anything about my contrast between modern day "art" and ancient art.

    I won't lie; I do have a bias against the mass culture. It is absolutely disgusting, and I would think you would have a hard time finding any normal person that wouldn't agree. It is a culture of hedonism, a culture that believes pure pleasure is the goal of life. Power is a method to obtain pleasure, money is a method to obtain pleasure, and sex is a method to obtain pleasure. The entire entertainment industry, hell, the ENTIRE industry, is poised to give people as much pleasure to make them fools. They live their lives not knowing any better, but they do not live to their potential.

    Two more things, and I will move on to your final paragraph. First, in contrasting Bach to someone like Kayne; people would say that Bach's music is objectively more beautiful that Kayne's music. That is a fact. There might be nothing wrong to listening to Kayne. I listen to heavy metal when working out, (Trivium ftw.). But when the staple of the culture IS Kayne, and people like him are regarded as models of success, then I believe something is wrong. Secondly, in pointing out that Shakespeare was regarded as low entertainment directly supports my point that timeless, endearing works of Western Culture will survive the test of time. This means that they have a quality that resonates with the human condition, and are worth reading/watching (Really, they are. It is good literature. Shakespeare ftw.).

    3. Again, there are many good books in modern times. There are many good books throughout history. The timeless ones will be worthwhile reads, while modern day ones will be hit and misses (Good might be considered bad right now and vice versa.). That is why I recommend reading classics first, and then reading modern day books later. You have a limited time on this Earth, so I would read a book guaranteed to change your outlook than a book that could potentially be mundane.

    4. My point is that a brain filled with garbage will not benefit from self help books, the thought must change. Elisha Long is my go-to guy for self help material. He has read many self help books, and he has benefited greatly from it. He also has a great youtube channel if anyone is interested. Got banned from the misc, he was one of the reasons I noticed this forum. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvF...gQWOw0KZJsVNXQ
    Fair enough. Although when you said that old books have stood the test of time it is unfair because the countless modern books will also stand the test of time in the future. What makes these old books better. Not to get to the relevancy argument. Yes human nature hadn't changed throughout history but given the demographic of those who had written these classics: the educated, non-labor classlikely privileged individuals and you're only getting a tiny fraction of the human experience. Reading them you won't understand topics that are now commonly discussed in modern literature: depression, angst, poverty, sexual deprivation, self image... Not to say these topics are exclusive to the poor, but those classic writers likely wouldn't discuss it at length due to the stigma that would mark their work as banal and perverse among the literary circle, which is a real thing in olden times, and even if they do, it will be from an distanced observation or using imagination instead of authenticity from experiencing them. It's like a rich socialite trying to write about what it's like to be poor.
    Of course, I'm generalizing, a few classic writers have lived through these experiences and can write about them, but how many are there?
    Thus we have the true advantage perusing literature in a society where literacy is high, everyone has something to say, with different experience has everyone can write about it. Yes, they certainly can be hit and misses, that's why you look at the reviews and the accolades, same as a classic can be a hit a miss, Count of Monte Cristo can be the greatest book ever written to someone, but overrated to another.

    Onto your second point. I never made the comparison between Kayne and Bach, not sure why you're even arguing that. I'm saying that most people share the same disgust with you regarding the Kardashians and Kayne.

    I agree with the rest of wat you said, I just think that putting the stake on old books alone is ridiculous. It has little bearing on personal value, but it is a huge modifier to arrogance, as most people who read only classics I've come across had been insufferable snobs.

    I know people who read only old books, even books in Latin, watch black and white movies and listen to classic music and still be a complete loser. If you think it will change you into an Uberman you better have a lot of time to waste.
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    Originally Posted by Azn00Superman View Post
    Will read srs. No hate on old books but lol at OP thinking reading a bunch of them will lead to some mental ascension.
    Not what he is saying, you are projecting intellectual insecurity like crazyyyy, calm down ol boy, we are all friends. Negged.
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    Originally Posted by District View Post
    Not what he is saying, you are projecting intellectual insecurity like crazyyyy, calm down ol boy, we are all friends. Negged.
    Only a moron would think what I wrote as intellectual insecurity. Calling someone argument insecure doesn't make up for your lack of critical thinking. You can do with a little more reading.
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    Didn't read a single fukking word.

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    I saw that Sapiens got recommended itt. I would also recommend Homo Deus: A Brief History of Tomorrow



    While Sapiens focused on the past, Homo Deus focuses on the future focuses on the future of humanity.

    Over the past century humankind has managed to do the impossible and rein in famine, plague, and war. This may seem hard to accept, but, as Harari explains in his trademark style—thorough, yet riveting—famine, plague and war have been transformed from incomprehensible and uncontrollable forces of nature into manageable challenges. For the first time ever, more people die from eating too much than from eating too little; more people die from old age than from infectious diseases; and more people commit suicide than are killed by soldiers, terrorists and criminals put together. The average American is a thousand times more likely to die from binging at McDonalds than from being blown up by Al Qaeda.

    What then will replace famine, plague, and war at the top of the human agenda? As the self-made gods of planet earth, what destinies will we set ourselves, and which quests will we undertake? Homo Deus explores the projects, dreams and nightmares that will shape the twenty-first century—from overcoming death to creating artificial life. It asks the fundamental questions: Where do we go from here? And how will we protect this fragile world from our own destructive powers? This is the next stage of evolution. This is Homo Deus.

    With the same insight and clarity that made Sapiens an international hit and a New York Times bestseller, Harari maps out our future.
    Last edited by Foreverbulker; 07-25-2017 at 11:08 PM.
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    "A classic is a book that everyone wants to have read but no one wants to read."

    Spoken by a classic author himself.

    Srs OP - I've never got much out of fiction, but the one thing I have benefitted from is reading history. Not like names of politicians and wars and ****, but the day to day lives of people for the last 2-3 millennia, or people caught in absolutely brutal situations like the English army fighting at Agincourt without eating for 2 days, or Napoleon's march through Egypt with no water. The amount of bull**** these guys went through is simply unreal. In a way, reading about these trials of the past really makes you feel fortunate for what you have, and also lets you understand what kind of bull**** you can put up when when you're really forced to.
    Last edited by FAPhaggot; 07-25-2017 at 11:09 PM.
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    Originally Posted by FAPhaggot View Post
    "A classic is a book that everyone wants to have read but no one wants to read."

    Spoken by a classic author himself.
    Yep, and those who read it is then obliged to say it's the best thing ever lest he be accused of "not getting it". It's the human centipede of the literary world.
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    ส็็็็็็็ ็็็็็็็ ็็็ ส็็็ Suqat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Azn00Superman View Post
    Fair enough. Although when you said that old books have stood the test of time it is unfair because the countless modern books will also stand the test of time in the future. What makes these old books better. Not to get to the relevancy argument. Yes human nature hadn't changed throughout history but given the demographic of those who had written these classics: the educated, non-labor classlikely privileged individuals and you're only getting a tiny fraction of the human experience. Reading them you won't understand topics that are now commonly discussed in modern literature: depression, angst, poverty, sexual deprivation, self image... Not to say these topics are exclusive to the poor, but those classic writers likely wouldn't discuss it at length due to the stigma that would mark their work as banal and perverse among the literary circle, which is a real thing in olden times, and even if they do, it will be from an distanced observation or using imagination instead of authenticity from experiencing them. It's like a rich socialite trying to write about what it's like to be poor.
    Of course, I'm generalizing, a few classic writers have lived through these experiences and can write about them, but how many are there?
    Thus we have the true advantage perusing literature in a society where literacy is high, everyone has something to say, with different experience has everyone can write about it. Yes, they certainly can be hit and misses, that's why you look at the reviews and the accolades, same as a classic can be a hit a miss, Count of Monte Cristo can be the greatest book ever written to someone, but overrated to another.

    Onto your second point. I never made the comparison between Kayne and Bach, not sure why you're even arguing that. I'm saying that most people share the same disgust with you regarding the Kardashians and Kayne.

    I agree with the rest of wat you said, I just think that putting the stake on old books alone is ridiculous. It has little bearing on personal value, but it is a huge modifier to arrogance, as most people who read only classics I've come across had been insufferable snobs.

    I know people who read only old books, even books in Latin, watch black and white movies and listen to classic music and still be a complete loser. If you think it will change you into an Uberman you better have a lot of time to waste.
    We don't know if many of these modern day books will stand the test of time. There are lots of books that have. If you want to spend as much time productively, reading GREAT literature, then read what is guaranteed to be great already. That is my only point. Later on you can look back and read books that are currently in production. You don't need to have a library that is filled with only classics, but the majority should be.

    As for the rest: There are MANY books that deal with society's issues of depression and poverty, (sexual frustration and self image, are you a girl? Those are things that you would find in a book written by Jane Austen.).

    Also, about attitude. You seem to think that I am judgemental because others you have meet are judgemental. That is stupid and pretentious. Stop comparing me to others.

    Originally Posted by Azn00Superman View Post
    Yep, and those who read it is then obliged to say it's the best thing ever lest he be accused of "not getting it". It's the human centipede of the literary world.
    You are really judgemental and the epitome of what you claim to despise.
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    Originally Posted by FAPhaggot View Post
    "A classic is a book that everyone wants to have read but no one wants to read."

    Spoken by a classic author himself.

    Srs OP - I've never got much out of fiction, but the one thing I have benefitted from is reading history. Not like names of politicians and wars and ****, but the day to day lives of people for the last 2-3 millennia, or people caught in absolutely brutal situations like the English army fighting at Agincourt without eating for 2 days, or Napoleon's march through Egypt with no water. The amount of bull**** these guys went through is simply unreal. In a way, reading about these trials of the past really makes you feel fortunate for what you have, and also lets you understand what kind of bull**** you can put up when when you're really forced to.
    History is awesome.

    Edit: 200th post.
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    Originally Posted by antidogma View Post
    in on Meditations - Marcus Aurelius thread
    Good book read it last year, in almost one sitting. One of my top 20 books for sure.
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