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  1. #1
    Moderator pogue's Avatar
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    Exclamation *!*!* Join the Fight To Save Net Neutrality *!*!*


    Don't want to see this every time you try and load a website? Tell the FCC that you want to keep the internet where it is - under Title II - as a utility that can't be throttled based on your ISP, and not switched to Title I (correct me if I'm wrong on the obscure Communications Act of 1934) where it can be deregulated as your ISP sees fit. The Trump administration already allowed ISPs to spy on your internet traffic with no input from us - his constituents, but only big business interests.

    We have to let the FCC know our concerns and stop this before it gets worse. If you don't understand net neutrality, here are 3 videos explaining it.

    CGP Grey - Internet Citizens: Defend Net Neutrality


    John Oliver - Net Neutrality - Part 1 (under Obama Administration)


    John Oliver - Net Neutrality - Part 2 (under Trump Administration)


    Net Neutrality Informational Video - Fight for the Future



    Groups like Fight For the Future & the Electronic Frontier Foundation are two of the main organizations lobbying the FCC and Congress to tell them not to let ISPs limit and throttle our internet speed.

    You can visit DearFCC.org and fill out a quick form that will be sent to the FCC telling them you don't want them to change net neutrality and leave it the way it is! It will take you less than 5 minutes and get your message across.


    If you want to take it a step further, you can also call your congressional representatives and tell them not to change net neutrality.


    You can also use this link from the EFF to email your representatives a message telling them not to meddle with net neutrality, which is basically slacktivism, but the more emails they get - especially if you customize it and not just send out the automated one - lets them know people are against this move. Here is also another way to email your representatives, through the ACLU's Fight for Net Neutrality Day of Action link.

    If you run a website, you can visit BattleForTheNet.com and there is code you can get from GitHub or a plugin for Wordpress or if you use Cloudflare you can install that will pop up a small window when people try and load your web page asking them to fill out a short form to contact the FCC and ask them to participate in this mass July 12th demonstration a large portion of companies on the internet are having (you can see the list on the battleforthenet.com site). The popup will look like one of 4 options you can choose from, such as this first one:


    EFF also has a big popup that will come up and scare your visitors and prompt them to send a message to congress, which you can view and find the code for here: Internet, Activate! Stand Up for Net Neutrality on July 12


    So please, do your part today, and sign the petitions, contact your representatives, and share the links I posted above on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, or whatever social network you prefer. Email it to friends and family and get the word out. Only with mass political action will we be able to stop this from happening.

    And to the naysayers, and jaded people who don't believe anything can be done and nothing will change, I say, it's better than sitting back and doing nothing. Even if it fails you can stand with your head high and say "At least I tried!" and remember this famous quote: I'd rather die on my feet, than live on my knees.


    Sign the petition from on change.org to support net neutrality. The petition passed the 80,000 signers mark and will be sent to the Federal Communications Commission, the U.S. Senate, & the U.S. House of Representatives. Please still sign it if you haven't already to continue to tell the people in power that we don't want net neutrality taken away! It's next current goal is to get to 150,000 signatories. https://www.change.org/p/save-net-ne...-netneutrality. H/T: Iukas

    ☆☆☆ UPDATE ON THE FIGHT FOR NET NEUTRALITY FROM FIGHT FOR THE FUTURE ☆☆☆
    Last edited by pogue; 07-19-2017 at 10:16 PM. Reason: Adding update link
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  2. #2
    The NBA is trash. Thai_Clinch's Avatar
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    I always said the next great world war will be the people vs. the powers that be, through cyber attacks. it's not that far fetched now. Serious topic. they start shaking down the internet, it's all over for many people. it already is in the sense of privacy. i dont think filling out forms online to stop it will change anything but atleast do it for the small possibility that we can fight back safely and discreetly...for now.
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  3. #3
    Unhinged Idiot butteredtoast's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Thai_Clinch View Post
    I always said the next great world war will be the people vs. the powers that be, through cyber attacks. it's not that far fetched now. Serious topic. they start shaking down the internet, it's all over for many people. it already is in the sense of privacy. i dont think filling out forms online to stop it will change anything but atleast do it for the small possibility that we can fight back safely and discreetly...for now.
    Agreed. If this actually goes through, these guys like Anonymous and LizardSquad or whatever will do everything in their power to destroy these people. There are obviously limits to their power, but I have a feeling this could cause true chaos.

    It's honestly hard to believe that it's possible this could get passed. Screw this and the greedy c*nts who are defending it.
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  4. #4
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    • Net Neutrality
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  5. #5
    my job title is douchebag Iukas's Avatar
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    9800 more signatures to hit the goal of 75,000

    https://www.change.org/p/save-net-ne...-netneutrality

    This petition will be delivered to:
    Federal Communications Commission
    U.S. Senate
    U.S. House of Representatives
    edit: pogue has added this link to the first post and they only need 750 more sigs!
    Last edited by Iukas; 07-12-2017 at 05:21 PM.
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  6. #6
    That's the arm I fap with Critter5592's Avatar
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    in. I remember OP making a thread to fight back about this before.. appreciate someone taking the initiative to protect our privacy!
    Last edited by Critter5592; 07-12-2017 at 03:01 PM.
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  7. #7
    Registered User gwem32170191's Avatar
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    I watched your first video OP.

    All traffic is not equal. ISPs already prioritize traffic through their network to create these 'fast lanes'. Take voice traffic for example, it is extremely susceptible to delay and jitter and is always run at a COS5 or DSCP EF prioritization. EF is express forwarding, you can think of it as the fastest a router is going to move a packet out after it receives it. Voice will not work well or at all without this priority over other packets, should we make it illegal to do this?

    The internet is not basic electricity. There is really no comparison here. Electricity is a utility, and the internet is a product with differentiated services attached to it. It should honestly have its own Title under the Communications Act, or even its own act.

    Providers do not control and are not obligated to the internet, only the customers they serve. Here is the big one, even though ISPs already prioritize traffic though their own networks, other providers may not honor this prioritization. The internet is not one big mega-conglomo-corp. It is a bunch of different competitors that gingerly touch dongles to create the WWW. Do you think they are all going to sit in a smokey room and price fix? That is illegal and stupid. If a provider implements an extra pay to play scheme, another provider would do better to just take their customer base by not implementing it.

    The doomsay shill is mostly coming from huge corporations like Google and Netflix that put so much traffic on the internet that they already have special contracts with ISPs to support. Comcast got caught in a debacle a few years ago with Netflix because Comcast users experienced poor connectivity to Netflix. Netflix didn't want to pay Comcast to directly access their network so they bought up every other provider's links in an effort to circumvent Comcast using those other provider's peering points to Comcast. It completely saturated those other provider's peering points and did not improve the situation at all. In the end they had to pony up and pay Comcast for direct access to improve their end user's experience.

    You want to know what has happened since 2015? The same thing that happened right after the Telecommunications Act of 1996 (Which is worse than Satan, **** you forever Bill Clinton). The telecommunications industry is undergoing HEAVY consolidation right now. Government needs to stay the hell out and let the free market fix things.
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  8. #8
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    Originally Posted by Iukas View Post
    9800 more signatures to hit the goal of 75,000

    https://www.change.org/p/save-net-ne...-netneutrality
    Signed
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  9. #9
    smashing and dashing LateShow's Avatar
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    I'll sign if this also helps to control the cellular companies like AT&T and Verizon.
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  10. #10
    Moderator pogue's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gwem32170191 View Post
    I watched your first video OP.

    All traffic is not equal. ISPs already prioritize traffic through their network to create these 'fast lanes'. Take voice traffic for example, it is extremely susceptible to delay and jitter and is always run at a COS5 or DSCP EF prioritization. EF is express forwarding, you can think of it as the fastest a router is going to move a packet out after it receives it. Voice will not work well or at all without this priority over other packets, should we make it illegal to do this? [snip][/snip]
    You're right, the Telecommunications Act was a bad act - but the Telecommunications Act did exactly what changing the internet back to Title I would do, deregulate it. It's been demonstrated time and time again that corporations cannot regulate themselves and cannot adhere to their own promises and will change the rules whenever they want because they have the money and can control the lobbying. Only the voice of the people can overcome this. The internet must be regulated to have free and open access to any website any user wants to access, not restrict it based on how the ISP decides.

    The UN has already stated that access to the internet is a basic human right, like access to water, electricity, shelter, food, and health care (another debate for another time). The US already pays the most money in the world for the slowest internet in the world. ISPs divide up markets in different parts of the country for themselves in closed door meetings that the government has no say in. Try going into poor states like Mississippi or West Virginia where you only have one ISP to pick from and it disconnects constantly for days. You cannot run a small business from that kind of ISP access and you certainly couldn't do thing like stream video games on Twitch or Youtube, which many people - regardless of what you think of their 'jobs' - makes them money. They only basically have the option to move to another part of the country.

    That's why ISPs are so scared of things like Google Fiber or fiber to the door controlled by city governments and have worked so hard on getting them shut down in many places. ISPs want full access to what we see, how much bandwidth we get and how much we pay for it, and what sites we can access at certain speeds.

    If we go with this "free market" Ayn Rand style internet that you're advocating, we'll soon see internet plans like this:


    Keep the internet open, free, and regulated. See the links in the first post and contact the FCC and your Congressional representatives right now! Don't listen to the propaganda posts by those like gwem32170191 who have been brainwashed by Fox News, Ted Cruz, and others who have been bought and paid for by the cable and internet industry.
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  11. #11
    Registered User WesMang's Avatar
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    Much like owning a firearm and knowing how to use it. One should also possess strong encryption methods and the knowledge to use them.

    Both are necessary to ensuring your personal freedom in the modern world.
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  12. #12
    Moderator pogue's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WesMang View Post
    Much like owning a firearm and knowing how to use it. One should also possess strong encryption methods and the knowledge to use them.

    Both are necessary to ensuring your personal freedom in the modern world.
    EFF has a Surveillance Self-Defense starter kit for people wanting to learn OPSEC against our own government spying on us. That's where I would recommend people start, and research the tools Edward Snowden used and uses, such as the TailsOS, encrypted email using services like Proton Mail or Mailvelope for your pre-existing webmail. Encrypting your hard drive with something like VeraCrypt or BitLocker.

    For your smartphone, use Whisper System's Signal to encrypt text and voice communication. Luckily, both Android and iOS come encrypted out of the box by their mfgs, but govt's and corporations around the world are constantly looking for zero day attacks to break this encryption and trying to force legislation through to put backdoors into these encryption systems. So, use strong passwords to make it as hard as possible for them to break into them.

    But, what it all comes down to is this. If they want your password, or to break your security, this is the method they'll use.

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  13. #13
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    we're ****ed
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  14. #14
    Moderator pogue's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SofaKingSlow View Post
    we're ****ed
    What makes you say that? At the end of the day today, Fight for the Future quoted these statistics as to how many people participated just on their network of sites fighting for net neutrality.

    On July 12th, the web came together in a way it never has before to defend the free and open Internet.

    Congress has already received more than 3 million emails and 100,000 calls. More than 1.7 million comments are on their way to the FCC (a new record for a single day). And more is coming… the West Coast is still busy submitting comments and making calls!
    The EFF hasn't published their numbers yet, but the ACLU got 39,159 Signed comments to congress, and the change.org petition has 81,622 signatories.

    Fight for the Future also put out a gallery of images of some of their statistics for today, which you can view here:

    July 12 Internet-Wide Protest for #NetNeutrality has begun!

    So, I would say people definitely we're silent on the issue.
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  15. #15
    Respek the Random OG... bezarker's Avatar
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    Done
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  16. #16
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    Just curious, but does anyone know what Trump's stance is on this?
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  17. #17
    Moderator pogue's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by XPmpnII View Post
    Just curious, but does anyone know what Trump's stance is on this?
    Trump is in favor of this, which is why he appointed the current FCC head.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/30/t...eutrality.html
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    pogue pls

    Wouldn't allow me to donate anything more than $4k?
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    Iirc installing TailsOS well get you on a terror watchlist
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    Moderator pogue's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by buckeyenutz View Post
    pogue pls

    Wouldn't allow me to donate anything more than $4k?
    Who are you trying to donate it too? Are you seriously trying to donate that much?

    Originally Posted by 420Layers View Post
    Iirc installing TailsOS well get you on a terror watchlist
    I've heard that's true in the UK, but specifically about TOR to visit Darkweb sites. I haven't heard about it in the US or using Tails.

    https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/a...n-of-terrorism

    I don't think they can tell you are using Tails specifically, because it just uses the Firefox browser. But, TOR IPs are public, and they can potentially monitor those, but unless you have bad OPSEC and are leaking DNS, it's impossible for them to identify you. I would suspect only if they got ahold of your computer and saw that you had TOR installed and were able to forensically look at your web history, then that might be possible. But, just another reason to encrypt your HDD and shred your web history, cache, forms, with a multipass shredder tool (ie: using a software tool to securely wipe any data remanence leftover on a magnetic HDD. I'm not sure if this is necessary on SSDs or if a shredder tool would even work on an SSD.)

    Clearing data from an SSD appears to be a more complex topic than I can discuss or figure out. If anyone knows a definitive answer, please feel free to post, but it appears to depend a lot on the mfg of the SSD drive and how they utilize and implement an operating system's built in deletion/sanitation tools (e.g.: Emptying the Recycle Bin in Windows - one SSD HDD mfg might erase the data completely, while another might leave residual data laying around for forensic technology to be able to pick up in the future).

    For example, Kingston, a mfg of SSD drives says if you want to securely wipe an entire SSD drive leaving no forensic traces left behind, a tool called HDDErase will work fine on their drives for this purpose.
    Source: SSD Data Wiping: Sanitize or Secure Erase SSDs? Kingston Technology

    However, an article they reference in the Kingston post, says otherwise and other drives, as I mentioned, might implement this technology differently - even in how they utilize drive encryption on SSDs.

    Can Data Stored on an SSD be secured?

    And I also found security expert, Bruce Schneier, chiming in on the subject from an undated study titled Reliably Erasing Data From Flash-Based Solid State Drives (PDF)

    Erasing Data from Flash Drives - Schneier on Security

    Encrypting Windows Hard Drives - Schneier on Security

    File Deletion (from 2009)

    I'm sure there is a lot more info out there on this, and I also realize this went way beyond your original question/assertion, but I got digging around, couldn't find the answer myself, and decided to try and find out. I still am not 100% clear on if an SSD could be wiped, but the tools I use for Windows to securely wipe files are:

    Btw, in case you were wondering, it would seem like the Gutmann's 35 pass method would be the most secure. However, most believe it's completely overkill and based on old methodology based on how older HDDs worked decades ago. It also takes days and days to finish, depending on what the size is of what you're trying to delete.
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    Originally Posted by pogue View Post
    You're right, the Telecommunications Act was a bad act - but the Telecommunications Act did exactly what changing the internet back to Title I would do, deregulate it. It's been demonstrated time and time again that corporations cannot regulate themselves and cannot adhere to their own promises and will change the rules whenever they want because they have the money and can control the lobbying. Only the voice of the people can overcome this. The internet must be regulated to have free and open access to any website any user wants to access, not restrict it based on how the ISP decides.

    The UN has already stated that access to the internet is a basic human right, like access to water, electricity, shelter, food, and health care (another debate for another time). The US already pays the most money in the world for the slowest internet in the world. ISPs divide up markets in different parts of the country for themselves in closed door meetings that the government has no say in. Try going into poor states like Mississippi or West Virginia where you only have one ISP to pick from and it disconnects constantly for days. You cannot run a small business from that kind of ISP access and you certainly couldn't do thing like stream video games on Twitch or Youtube, which many people - regardless of what you think of their 'jobs' - makes them money. They only basically have the option to move to another part of the country.

    That's why ISPs are so scared of things like Google Fiber or fiber to the door controlled by city governments and have worked so hard on getting them shut down in many places. ISPs want full access to what we see, how much bandwidth we get and how much we pay for it, and what sites we can access at certain speeds.

    If we go with this "free market" Ayn Rand style internet that you're advocating, we'll soon see internet plans like this:



    Keep the internet open, free, and regulated. See the links in the first post and contact the FCC and your Congressional representatives right now! Don't listen to the propaganda posts by those like gwem32170191 who have been brainwashed by Fox News, Ted Cruz, and others who have been bought and paid for by the cable and internet industry.

    I am in 100% agreement with you that corporations cannot regulate themselves and it is a top eats all world in telecom. My company was acquired by one of the big four recently and it sucks man. I just think the government does a god awful job when it tries to regulate corporations; probably because of the corporate kickbacks senators are using. I want the internet to be free, as in you can access everything you want; I think we should all chip in for the maintenance. Having china state run internet would suck.

    However, we need technical experts to weigh in on the legislation in DC, not people that half understand how this all connects together, or senators that have 0 clue what the **** they are talking about. Do you want the internet to work? Routing protocols must have top priority. Want voice to work over the internet? Then we need to give it priority over video. Video comes next, then stuff like RDP, then best effort data like pinging a website. The internet has been built in a very hierarchical way and our laws really need to take that into account. Freedom comes first, so if we have to tear it all down and start over I am game, but with what we have it would be wise to tread carefully.

    Telecommunications, even before the internet, has always been a fukkin monopoly monster. The cycle has been Free Market, **** gets out of hand, Government intervention, **** stagnates and no new business grows, Government deregulates, Free Market, repeat. Telecommunications is vital to our society and world, it needs to constantly improve and get bigger but cant when either extreme is in effect.
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    I could be wrong but didn't we have a big net neutrality thing happen a few years ago...?
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    great post, keep promoting awareness
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    I watched the videos and I'm still a tad confused.

    So the government would have control over corporations that provide us internet? Small markets will get ****ed and we'll only have a few options which can vary in expensive on how much data we receive and how fast we get?

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    Here's a video that does a good job explaining what it is in layman terms and then some. Highly encourage folks to watch it. It's by a gun channel, not some nerd channel if that helps.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCO5lqTkyZVzp77YkB3O8QPw
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  28. #28
    Moderator pogue's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SkinnyBeast24 View Post
    I watched the videos and I'm still a tad confused.

    So the government would have control over corporations that provide us internet? Small markets will get ****ed and we'll only have a few options which can vary in expensive on how much data we receive and how fast we get?

    Not my field
    No, it's not that the government would have "control" over the corporations that provide us the internet, they simply set the terms by how the corporations that give us the internet cannot pick and choose what is best for the consumers based on what they think. It allows consumers to keep control of what websites we want to visit or what services we want to use like gaming, or video streaming services, etc. Essentially, if we did away with net neutrality, the ISPs would be free to throttle (slow down or even stop us from accessing) access to our favorite websites or slow down our gaming service, or force us to choose a different video streaming service (such as one that the ISP owns).

    It's more like a consumer protection statue. It allows us to continue using the internet as we do now, in the present. If they change it, to block net neutrality, we would most likely be forced to pay more for our ISPs to choose which websites we want to visit, gaming services we want to use, or video streaming service we want to pay for. If net neutrality were reversed, it would be bad for those reasons. The ISPs take away control from us, the people that pay them for the internet to use it how we like, and make us instead pay them more to access what we want.

    Let me give an analogy that might make more sense. Say you own an Xbox and want to play games on Xbox Live. Under current net neutrality, we are allowed to do that by paying our ISP for access to the internet and we can continue to play our games on Xbox as fast as our ISP will go.

    But, if they did away with net neutrality, theoretically the following could happen: Say your ISP is Comcast. Comcast has a deal with Sony so that when you play on Playstation it goes as fast as Comcast will allow. But, if you tried to play with an Xbox, they artificially slow down your speed - making your multiplayer games run slower, so if you tried to play Call of Duty or Battlefield, you would be super lagged and would constantly lose because the other player had a faster internet. So, if you wanted to continue to play Call of Duty or Battlefield as fast as possible, you would either have to go out and buy a brand new Playstation for $500 (or however much they cost now), or pay your ISP, Comcast, a higher monthly fee to make Xbox go as fast as Comcast allows Playstation to run. Without Net Neutrality, that fee could be any amount. An extra $20 a month, $50, $100 a month or whatever they decide is reasonable.

    That doesn't seem fair, does it?

    Not a gamer? Here's a different example. Say you prefer to watch Netflix instead of Hulu. With Net neutrality rules in place the way they are now, you can watch as much Netflix you want at 720p or 4K as long as you want and without it constantly having to stop and rebuffer the video (like the little slow down spinny circle graphic you see at the very top of this thread). But, if they did away with net neutrality, and the ISP you're using now (say it's Comcast again) has a deal with Hulu. Now, when you try and watch Netflix, it has to constantly rebuffer the video because Comcast has artificially slowed it down because they want you to subscribe to Hulu instead. So, you can either cancel your subscription to Netflix, and watch whatever Hulu has to offer instead, or pay an extra monthly fee to Comcast to allow you to stream Netflix without it constantly rebuffering and in 720p or 4K. Again, that fee might be an extra $20 a month, or maybe $50, or maybe $100. Without net neutrality, you don't have any choice.

    And since ISPs have split up the country into regions where you can only get Comcast where you live, you don't have access to Time Warner, or Verizion Fios, or AT&T Internet. So, you aren't provided with any other options, because the ISPs have essentially monopolized the market, making it unfriendly for consumers.

    That is what net neutrality is all about. It's not so much government "control" over the internet, as consumer protection. Consumer protection is essentially why the FTC was first established, the FDA, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB). And you can argue that maybe these organizations don't work as well as they should, that's a different topic for a different time. This is about the FCC, and the FCC's consumer protection, for the internet, to every American citizen is net neutrality.

    Does that make any more sense?
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  29. #29
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    Originally Posted by QuickNutkus View Post
    Here's a video that does a good job explaining what it is in layman terms and then some. Highly encourage folks to watch it. It's by a gun channel, not some nerd channel if that helps.

    That's a pretty good video, but I think some of the people who don't understand how the backbones of the internet works with packets going back and forth from client to server, might not understand his analogies. His UPS/Fedex analogy was good though, and I think most people would get that. I'm not sure if I should add it to the top post, as it might confuse some. I tried to find the easiest and most simplest ways to explain it people as I could.

    Btw, I used to have that same 2600 tshirt he's wearing in the video

    2600 has a few older podcasts that discuss net neutrality, but being that they are a hacking group, I'm sure their explanations would be way over the heads of the people who don't understand it in this thread.
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  30. #30
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    Originally Posted by buckeyenutz View Post
    pogue pls

    Wouldn't allow me to donate anything more than $4k?
    I'm still curious if you were serious about donating $4,000 and to whom.
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