Official Israel/Palestine discussion thread part II

[TranceNRG]

Two good news:

And another one:
3)

Israeli authorities, on Sunday, announced that members and representatives of 20 foreign nongovernmental organization are barred from entering the territory, noting the groups' advocacy of boycotting the Israeli settler state over its occupation of Palestine.

[primetime32]

Two good news:

And another one:


3)Israeli authorities, on Sunday, announced that members and representatives of 20 foreign nongovernmental organization are barred from entering the territory, noting the groups' advocacy of boycotting the Israeli settler state over its occupation of Palestine.

You're a zionist now. Welcome to the club!

[ZenBowman]

You're a zionist now. Welcome to the club!

From an analytical perspective: The general belief 20-30 years ago was that time was not on the side of the Israelis. Palestinians had global support and sympathy, and believed fully that in due time, the pressure on Israel would be overwhelming and that they would get a lot of concessions in any peace deal. The longer the peace process dragged on, the better off the Palestinians were.

Now the situation is completely different. Israel is less diplomatically isolated than ever. Ties with Europe have frayed, but Europe is a dying continent, and not due for revival any time soon.

Ties with the BRICS countries are increasingly strong, which would have been unthinkable two decades ago. Just by having India and China on its side, it has the support of over 40% of the worlds population.

With the recession of leftism in South America, many other South American countries are also taking the Israeli side, and African countries are also in an increasing partnership with Israel. Even traditional Arab allies are basically now neutral parties, which means there really isn't any hope for Palestinians to get a better deal, and my prediction is that at some point in the next 20 years, they may well accept Gaza being annexed by Egypt and the West bank by Jordan.

[spadelexus]

From an analytical perspective: The general belief 20-30 years ago was that time was not on the side of the Israelis. Palestinians had global support and sympathy, and believed fully that in due time, the pressure on Israel would be overwhelming and that they would get a lot of concessions in any peace deal. The longer the peace process dragged on, the better off the Palestinians were.

Now the situation is completely different. Israel is less diplomatically isolated than ever. Ties with Europe have frayed, but Europe is a dying continent, and not due for revival any time soon.

Ties with the BRICS countries are increasingly strong, which would have been unthinkable two decades ago. Just by having India and China on its side, it has the support of over 40% of the worlds population.

With the recession of leftism in South America, many other South American countries are also taking the Israeli side, and African countries are also in an increasing partnership with Israel. Even traditional Arab allies are basically now neutral parties, which means there really isn't any hope for Palestinians to get a better deal, and my prediction is that at some point in the next 20 years, they may well accept Gaza being annexed by Egypt and the West bank by Jordan.

This is a very accurate analysis. At the end of the day, it's all about ROI. What do these countries get from not partnering with Israel vs what they do get from partnering with Israel. One of Bibis major accomplishments has been building and improving relations with countries in Africa, Asia, and South America.

[Judge_Joe_Brown]

From an analytical perspective: The general belief 20-30 years ago was that time was not on the side of the Israelis. Palestinians had global support and sympathy, and believed fully that in due time, the pressure on Israel would be overwhelming and that they would get a lot of concessions in any peace deal. The longer the peace process dragged on, the better off the Palestinians were.

Now the situation is completely different. Israel is less diplomatically isolated than ever. Ties with Europe have frayed, but Europe is a dying continent, and not due for revival any time soon.

Ties with the BRICS countries are increasingly strong, which would have been unthinkable two decades ago. Just by having India and China on its side, it has the support of over 40% of the worlds population.

With the recession of leftism in South America, many other South American countries are also taking the Israeli side, and African countries are also in an increasing partnership with Israel. Even traditional Arab allies are basically now neutral parties, which means there really isn't any hope for Palestinians to get a better deal, and my prediction is that at some point in the next 20 years, they may well accept Gaza being annexed by Egypt and the West bank by Jordan.

I'm another one of those whose views have changed a lot regarding Israel over the past few years. I'm sure if you go back in my history (I started posting here when I was 17), I was not the biggest fan of Israel, to put it lightly. While I don't justify the expanding settlements, it's clear as day to me that Israel is the "good guy" in this fight, and that most of the anger towards them is driven by anti semitism. Israelis don't teach their children to blow themselves up, they don't teach them to attack other people based on their race, and Israelis certainly don't hold the backwards Islamic views that many Arabs do. The hatred some of the Arabs I've met have is unbelievable - and they justify it with "I don't hate Jews, just Zionists". Yeah, because that makes it better, d1ckhead

Prediction: within the next 10 years, Saudi Arabia will recognize Israel as a legitimate state and start building relations with them. This will closely be followed by other rich GCC states. Many of the Gulf Arabs are also sick and tired of the whole Palestinian thing.

[Tha big kahoona]

most of the anger towards them is driven by anti semitism.

Brb kicking you out of your house and then calling you racist for having a problem with it. Sounds entirely logical

Israelis don't teach their children to blow themselves up, they don't teach them to attack other people based on their race, and Israelis certainly don't hold the backwards Islamic views that many Arabs do.

Indoctrination starts in kindergarten. An education system that demonizes Palestinians, field trips to occupied areas to normalize the occupation.

Short and incomplete video on the matter:

The hatred some of the Arabs I've met have is unbelievable - and they justify it with "I don't hate Jews, just Zionists". Yeah, because that makes it better, d1ckhead

You've never been to Palestine. You're judging the Palestinians based on your interactions with non-Palestinian Arabs. Do i need to tell you how silly that is?

Prediction: within the next 10 years, Saudi Arabia will recognize Israel as a legitimate state and start building relations with them. This will closely be followed by other rich GCC states. Many of the Gulf Arabs are also sick and tired of the whole Palestinian thing.

Saudi and the GCC countries been amicable towards Israel for decades.

[Judge_Joe_Brown]

Brb kicking you out of your house and then calling you racist for having a problem with it. Sounds entirely logical

Here's the fact: there's never been a state of Palestine in history. Ever. What should children born in Israel do? Get up and leave so the Pally's can live there? Look at this extraordinary restraint the Israeli soldiers show, should've slapped that bish:

Indoctrination starts in kindergarten. An education system that demonizes Palestinians, field trips to occupied areas to normalize the occupation.

Short and incomplete video on the matter:

[youtube]CbNsVGUti9c[youtube]

Are there extreme elements within Israel? Sure. But they're a very small minority. I've gone out with countless Israel and Jewish girls, met many Israeli people, they have always been very tolerant, educated, and great people. I never heard them talk sh*t about any race. I can't say the same for the Arabs I've met - 99.9% of them are probably anti semitic.

You've never been to Palestine. You're judging the Palestinians based on your interactions with non-Palestinian Arabs. Do i need to tell you how silly that is?

I've met Palestinians. Where did you come to the conclusion that I haven't? Jordanians, Lebanese, Egyptians - none of them like Palestinians.

Saudi and the GCC countries been amicable towards Israel for decades.

Well, not publicly. It'll change soon though, I'm positive. The world is getting sick and tired of the hatred Palestinians have been preaching for the past few decades. Even Arabs are waking up to it.

I always lol when Arabs talk about human rights and how Israel is violating them. If they spent even 0.0000001% of that time looking at human rights situations of minorities in their own countries, then I'd take them more seriously. BRB Coptic churches in egypt getting blown up. BRB kill all ex Muslims. BRB kill gay people.

Here's another fact: the Jews living in Arab countries around the time of the creation of Israel were second class citizens at best. Read up on how Jews were treated in Yemen for example. They could only walk barefoot in the city, and not allowed to wear shoes. If someone attacks them, they were not allowed to fight back. Jews had to create a state to protect themselves so they could live like humans, and I support that fully.

[treefiddycena]

Here's the fact: there's never been a state of Palestine in history. Ever. What should children born in Israel do? Get up and leave so the Pally's can live there? Look at this extraordinary restraint the Israeli soldiers show, should've slapped that bish:

BRB kicking you out of your house then telling you you never lived there because I already strong-armed the notion of 'statehood' to suit my purposes. Lmao people were literally forced out of their homes at gunpoint.

Here's another fact: the Jews living in Arab countries around the time of the creation of Israel were second class citizens at best. Read up on how Jews were treated in Yemen for example. They could only walk barefoot in the city, and not allowed to wear shoes. If someone attacks them, they were not allowed to fight back. Jews had to create a state to protect themselves so they could live like humans, and I support that fully.

Jews living in Arab countries during the European dark ages were treated better than in Europe. Hmmmm it's almost like Western interventionist policies resulted in the erection of ****ty governments whose only saving grace is that they suck Western cock. rly makes u think

Remember when Zionist terrorists bombed the King David Hotel so the British would leave then a few decades later elected one of the terrorists as Prime Minister? Lulz

[spadelexus]

BRB kicking you out of your house

There's millions of Arabs living in their houses and villages inside Israel and the disputed territories right now.

Stop being a drama queen.

[Metz00]

One state: Israel loses its status as a Jewish state and Palestinian growth rate is higher than Israel growth rate. This can lead to a stagnant Knesset when it comes to elections and policy making. Jews could end up becoming a minority in Israel as well in the coming decades under a one state plan.

Two state plan: 750,000 Israeli settlers will probably be evicted from West Bank and Palestine will now be a legitimate state. It could push for more to turn the tables on Israel's decades of encroachment. Iran would gladly fund Palestine to harass Israel. Then the important question would be who gets to keep the holy city of Jerusalem?

Israel benefits the most from the status quo while life gets harder for a growing Palestinian population in a shrinking already overcrowded territory. Israelis are settling in West Bank but not Gaza which has one of the highest population densities in the world. From a realpolitik point of view, Israel could use the mask of war to "clean out" Palestinians and then take over the land. I wouldn't be surprise if some right wing Israeli politicians secretly hope Israel is bombarded so that they can bomb West Bank/Gaza themselves and claim it was Iran or someone else and then the whole country would rally and ignore the fact that they would gain a lot of Palestinian land while "defending" themselves from enemies much further away.

[spadelexus]

One state: Israel loses its status as a Jewish state and Palestinian growth rate is higher than Israel growth rate. This can lead to a stagnant Knesset when it comes to elections and policy making. Jews could end up becoming a minority in Israel as well in the coming decades under a one state plan.

Two state plan: 750,000 Israeli settlers will probably be evicted from West Bank and Palestine will now be a legitimate state. It could push for more to turn the tables on Israel's decades of encroachment. Iran would gladly fund Palestine to harass Israel. Then the important question would be who gets to keep the holy city of Jerusalem?

Israel benefits the most from the status quo while life gets harder for a growing Palestinian population in a shrinking already overcrowded territory. Israelis are settling in West Bank but not Gaza which has one of the highest population densities in the world. From a realpolitik point of view, Israel could use the mask of war to "clean out" Palestinians and then take over the land. I wouldn't be surprise if some right wing Israeli politicians secretly hope Israel is bombarded so that they can bomb West Bank/Gaza themselves and claim it was Iran or someone else and then the whole country would rally and ignore the fact that they would gain a lot of Palestinian land while "defending" themselves from enemies much further away.

To the bold: Arabs have a higher birth and build rate in the disputed territories. The State of Israel evicted the Israeli settlers in Gaza and turned Gaza over to the PA. Hamas took control from the PA. Israel doesn't want Gaza. Israel wants security. And Israel will do what is necessary to make sure their citizens are safe.

A 2 state solution is very simple. The Palestinian terrorist groups simply need to put down their guns, knives, bombs etc...and acknowledge Israels legitimacy. Israel has given back to the Arabs more land than the West Bank (Sinai, Gaza) so history tells the story of what can come to the Palestinians if they want. Egypt, Jordan, Turkey, etc...all benifit from having Israel as an ally and neighbor. How foolish are the Palestinians not to take advantage of the same opportunity?

The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Even as Israel is strengthening its relations around the Arab world, the Palestinians are warming up to the Iranians? Lmao, you can't make this level of absurdity up...

[Scooty56]

GO ISRAEL
#RepThatJewLife

[treefiddycena]

There's millions of Arabs living in their houses and villages inside Israel and the disputed territories right now.

Stop being a drama queen.

Tons of them have also been living as refugees without Israel acknowledging the right to return. But I guess it's very easy to tell someone to stop being a drama queen when it's the people you like who forced hundreds of thousands of indigenous people out of their homes at gunpoint.

[spadelexus]

Tons of them have also been living as refugees without Israel acknowledging the right to return. But I guess it's very easy to tell someone to stop being a drama queen when it's the people you like who forced hundreds of thousands of indigenous people out of their homes at gunpoint.

They can move to the future Palestinian state if they want. The majority left Israel on their own accord. This is documented fact.

Where's your drama queen tears for the "tons" of Jews across the Muslim world that were persecuted against and expelled when the State of Israel was established? Jewish citizens forcibly removed from Baghdad, Casablanca, Cairo, etc..and all of their possessions, real estate, money, businesses etc...confiscated. Israeli citizens are owed billions of dollars by these Arab nations.

Look, the tit for tat needs to stop. Anybody that really cares about the Palestinians should be questioning how Abbas has been running the PA since Arafat died, how Arafat had billions of dollars stashed away in swiss bank accounts, and how Mashal and Haniya both have $20M palaces.

Jews and Arabs have lived peacefully together. We share common ancestry, and have many cultural similarities. The "they've been fighting for 2000 years" excuse is a myth. The Arab world is waking up to the fact Israel ain't going anywhere, and its better to be friends than enemies.

But the Palestinians (and their supporters) are still asleep in a comma. Brb boycotting Jewish businesses that employ Palestinians. You really can't make up this level of retardation.

[treefiddycena]

They can move to the future Palestinian state if they want. The majority left Israel on their own accord. This is documented fact.

Where's your drama queen tears for the "tons" of Jews across the Muslim world that were persecuted against and expelled when the State of Israel was established? Jewish citizens forcibly removed from Baghdad, Casablanca, Cairo, etc..and all of their possessions, real estate, money, businesses etc...confiscated. Israeli citizens are owed billions of dollars by these Arab nations.

Look, the tit for tat needs to stop. Anybody that really cares about the Palestinians should be questioning how Abbas has been running the PA since Arafat died, how Arafat had billions of dollars stashed away in swiss bank accounts, and how Mashal and Haniya both have $20M palaces.

Jews and Arabs have lived peacefully together. We share common ancestry, and have many cultural similarities. The "they've been fighting for 2000 years" excuse is a myth. The Arab world is waking up to the fact Israel ain't going anywhere, and its better to be friends than enemies.

But the Palestinians (and their supporters) are still asleep in a comma. Brb boycotting Jewish businesses that employ Palestinians. You really can't make up this level of retardation.

Jews and Arabs have common ancestry? Literally 6 of the last 6 prime ministers had European ancestry. If you want to talk about the people who've been living in the land continuously for a longer period of time, I'm not sure how it couldn't be the Palestinian Arabs. The story of Israel is essentially the story of a bunch of Europeans going to an Arab land (not that I don't understand why; They survived the holocaust, and naturally had feelings of desperation and rage), kicking out the Arabs, then doing the best job they possibly could to establish their own state to be as powerful as it possibly could.

What kind of 'justice-minded democracy' lowers the bar on what it considers justified moral behaviour based off of what's going on in other countries? If Israel wants to say it's the only democracy in the Middle-East, I'll judge it by that (not sure what kind of democracy establishes itself without the consent of the indigenous population, though.). Essentially, I feel that you bringing up the forced removal of Jews in other countries reduces to nonsensical 'what-aboutism'; It doesn't change the fact that hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were forcefully moved from their homes in a mass exodus in 1948. You pretending like Israel has no blood on its hands is disingenuous. Also, those people weren't Israeli citizens prior to their being expelled from their homes. Hmmm it's almost as if the state of Israel offers citizenship to people in order to increase their stake in seeing the state of Israel succeed! Really makes you think.

[Ilikebeef]

Jews and Arabs have common ancestry? Literally 6 of the last 6 prime ministers had European ancestry. If you want to talk about the people who've been living in the land continuously for a longer period of time, I'm not sure how it couldn't be the Palestinian Arabs. The story of Israel is essentially the story of a bunch of Europeans going to an Arab land (not that I don't understand why; They survived the holocaust, and naturally had feelings of desperation and rage), kicking out the Arabs, then doing the best job they possibly could to establish their own state to be as powerful as it possibly could.

What kind of 'justice-minded democracy' lowers the bar on what it considers justified moral behaviour based off of what's going on in other countries? If Israel wants to say it's the only democracy in the Middle-East, I'll judge it by that (not sure what kind of democracy establishes itself without the consent of the indigenous population, though.). Essentially, I feel that you bringing up the forced removal of Jews in other countries reduces to nonsensical 'what-aboutism'; It doesn't change the fact that hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were forcefully moved from their homes in a mass exodus in 1948. You pretending like Israel has no blood on its hands is disingenuous. Also, those people weren't Israeli citizens prior to their being expelled from their homes. Hmmm it's almost as if the state of Israel offers citizenship to people in order to increase their stake in seeing the state of Israel succeed! Really makes you think.

Ok Judaism is about 5700 years old, and their homeland was Israel. Islam is about 1500 years old. How da fk do muslims think anything in that area can be theirs when jews existed for like 4200 years before they did?

Jews and "Arabs" are half brothers. Meaning They came about at around the same time. But again the jews were first. Jews are descended from the first born legitimate son of Abraham from his WIFE. Arabs are descended from the child Abraham had with his "hand maiden". Basically a son from cheating on his wife and screwing the help. How do arabs or muslims own anything? Jews were first born and legit from marriage, arabs born second illegitimate. Jews existed 4000 years longer than muslims.

but somehow arabs and muslims think they have a right to anything of the jews and I find that confusing.

Israel is and always has been the homeland of the jews besides the short period where arabs/romans stole it from them. Now they have it back and the tears of the thieves just wont stop.

[johnnycomehome]

From an analytical perspective: The general belief 20-30 years ago was that time was not on the side of the Israelis. Palestinians had global support and sympathy, and believed fully that in due time, the pressure on Israel would be overwhelming and that they would get a lot of concessions in any peace deal. The longer the peace process dragged on, the better off the Palestinians were.

Now the situation is completely different. Israel is less diplomatically isolated than ever. Ties with Europe have frayed, but Europe is a dying continent, and not due for revival any time soon.

Ties with the BRICS countries are increasingly strong, which would have been unthinkable two decades ago. Just by having India and China on its side, it has the support of over 40% of the worlds population.

With the recession of leftism in South America, many other South American countries are also taking the Israeli side, and African countries are also in an increasing partnership with Israel. Even traditional Arab allies are basically now neutral parties, which means there really isn't any hope for Palestinians to get a better deal, and my prediction is that at some point in the next 20 years, they may well accept Gaza being annexed by Egypt and the West bank by Jordan.

I wish this would be the case but I don't see it

[umop3pisdn]

Wait did Israel do 9/11?

[spadelexus]

Wait did Israel do 9/11?

No Aliens did 9/11. Israel did the Titanic (duh).

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=175647301

[umop3pisdn]

No Aliens did 9/11. Israel did the Titanic (duh).

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=175647301

Your humour attempt sucks.

[TheNewbie]

Thread started: 07-02-2017

That's 434 days ago. With average of 0.25 posts per day. It's time to remove the sticky.

Mods - see edit.

[spatchcock]

I’ve been out of the game for a while

Are the good guys still winning?

[yungpharaoh]

israel kills innocent children every day and also is land stolen from palestine

[rxna]

F*ck israhell. I support my palestinian brothers and sisters.

[spadelexus]

israel kills innocent children every day and also is land stolen from palestine

Are you hearing they drink their blood too?

F*ck israhell. I support my palestinian brothers and sisters.

Why not both? I'm ready to forgive (but never forget) Palestinian atrocities committed against the Jewish Nation if Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Tanzim et al put down their weopons, and acknowledge Israels right to exist.

I support a future Palestinian State, with Ramallah as it's capital.

Your post reinforces a theme that's been pretty constant itt. Stubbornness and deep seated hatred of Palestinian supporters towards Israel.

And you wonder why there's a status quo..

[habibtizz]

I support a future Palestinian State, with Ramallah as it's capital.

Your post reinforces a theme that's been pretty constant itt. Stubbornness and deep seated hatred of Palestinian supporters towards Israel.

And you wonder why there's a status quo..

Just Lol. Its funny, honestly. I get it, you are bias. Look at your sig, very anti-Muslim. That is cool, whatever. What I find so silly in the whole "fight for Israel/Palestine" is the hysterics that are created when Jerusalem is brought up. "omg muh history, Jesus, some wall." These deep rooted fights come from religion, which is so stupid. I truly wish all 3 religions would fuk off about Jerusalem, I imagine so much peace would come if there was not the aspect of the 'right' to the 'muh holy land.' Might as well just move 100% of the population out of the city, and blow it up. Problem solved.

[spadelexus]

Just Lol. Its funny, honestly. I get it, you are bias. Look at your sig, very anti-Muslim. That is cool, whatever. What I find so silly in the whole "fight for Israel/Palestine" is the hysterics that are created when Jerusalem is brought up. "omg muh history, Jesus, some wall." These deep rooted fights come from religion, which is so stupid. I truly wish all 3 religions would fuk off about Jerusalem, I imagine so much peace would come if there was not the aspect of the 'right' to the 'muh holy land.' Might as well just move 100% of the population out of the city, and blow it up. Problem solved.

Dont read too deep into my sig man. Im not anti-muslim. Im critical of radical interpretation of Islam. Being pro-Israel doesn't mean I'm anti-anybody. The reality is that Israeli Arabs, Christian and Muslims, as well as other religious minorities like Druze and Bahai are safer inside Israel than virtually every other country in the Middle east. Im pro religious freedom for these groups, Muslims included.

And Jerusalem has historic significance to Jews outside the religious aspect. It was the capital of the ancient kingdom and during the Ottoman period, along with Hebron, Safed and Tiberias had large Jewish communities. Christians aren't staking a claim to the city. Israelis and Palestinians are and both Arafat and Abbas rejected deals that gave them control over significant portions of the city. In fact I'm hearing Trump is working on a peace plan that involves Israel handing over parts of Jerusalem for a future Palestinian capital. Only time will tell if the Palestinians miss another opportunity towards peace and state hood.

[gachase21]

Thread started: 07-02-2017

That's 434 days ago. With average of 0.25 posts per day. It's time to remove the sticky.

Mods - see edit.

But my relevance will be even more diminished!!!

I’ll cry

[habibtizz]

Only time will tell if the Palestinians miss another opportunity towards peace and state hood.

One can only hope religious ideology doesn't get in the way of progress, as it historically has. Would love to see an end to the conflict.

[ZenBowman]

I was surprised to see that many African countries represented. Have the broader Muslim-Christian tensions in Africa have turned many of these countries towards Israel, or is there some other cause?