A ‘very credible’ new study on Seattle’s $15 minimum wage has bad news for liberals

[havoc00]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...helps-workers/

When Seattle officials voted three years ago to incrementally boost the city's minimum wage up to $15 an hour, they'd hoped to improve the lives of low-income workers. Yet according to a major new study that could force economists to reassess past research on the issue, the hike has had the opposite effect.

The city is gradually increasing the hourly minimum to $15 over several years. Already, though, some employers have not been able to afford the increased minimums. They've cut their payrolls, putting off new hiring, reducing hours or letting their workers go, the study found.

The costs to low-wage workers in Seattle outweighed the benefits by a ratio of three to one, according to the study, conducted by a group of economists at the University of Washington who were commissioned by the city. The study, published as a working paper Monday by the National Bureau of Economic Research, has not yet been peer reviewed.

On the whole, the study estimates, the average low-wage worker in the city lost $125 a month because of the hike in the minimum.

The paper's conclusions contradict years of research on the minimum wage. Many past studies, by contrast, have found that the benefits of increases for low-wage workers exceed the costs in terms of reduced employment -- often by a factor of four or five to one.

[jbball92]

Lmao. Fail!

[JUGGERNAUT1333]

I don't know how people didn't see this coming.

You're asking an employer to essentially double their budget for wages. The employer has to make up for that lost money somehow.

[Retoaded]

And that was a study commissioned by people who wanted it to say the opposite. LOL. Fluffy feel good rainobw colored unicorns do not in fact exist.

[NotANun21]

published as a working paper Monday by the National Bureau of Economic Research, has not yet been peer reviewed.

Of course it's not, because it's propaganda and the minute it gets peer reviewed it will get debunked

How the media can post a paper which hasn't been peer reviewed is beyond me, but they make their own rules now

This is how a good proportion of the world came to believe that vaccines cause autism

[tonyparker69]

Of course it's not, because it's propaganda and the minute it gets peer reviewed it will get debunked

How the media can post a paper which hasn't been peer reviewed is beyond me, but they make their own rules now

This is how a good proportion of the world came to believe that vaccines cause autism

word. paper is less than useless if its not peer reviewed

[97Camry4Lyfe]

If they actually follow through, every mindless job is going to automated. People will get laid off.

[Tsudo]

"If a business can't afford it, they shouldn't be operating" -- Derpington Derpies.



What's scary is I've actually seen that touted by people both here and reddit.

[Muneyy]

I don't know how people didn't see this coming.

You're asking an employer to essentially double their budget for wages. The employer has to make up for that lost money somehow.

Liberals just assume that businesses will be OK with this and be cool with making less profits for the greater good.

Canada just passed the hike in Minimum wage to $14 starting Jan 1 2018 and $15 in 2019. I can't wait for the outrage to start up here. I have a small business but currently our people are making more than minimum wage, but once this hits all new hires will be making close to what people who have been here for years will be making.

[7rmr]

Of course it's not, because it's propaganda and the minute it gets peer reviewed it will get debunked

How the media can post a paper which hasn't been peer reviewed is beyond me, but they make their own rules now

This is how a good proportion of the world came to believe that vaccines cause autism

Saw this too.

Conservatives might want to hold off on the celebration until it's actually reviewed. At the moment it's no better than an opinion piece.

Seems interesting and looking forward to seeing whether it holds up

[JUGGERNAUT1333]

, but once this hits all new hires will be making close to what people who have been here for years will be making.

huge problem for morale for those long term employers ^^

Also, in my area a lot of jobs that start around $15 an hour require certifications like lift training, EMT, hell even small town police barely crack $15 an hour. Why apply for those jobs and spent your money and time on training when you can bag groceries for the same wage.

[faxanadu]

Why TF do you need a study to prove that forcing employers to pay double for the same labor is going to cause them to either:

A) Jack up prices
B) Reduce worker hours
C) Cut workers
D) Move towards automation
E) Close shop

Literally takes .02 seconds of logical thinking to figure that out.


I just noticed at my local CVS they jacked up everything on the $1 section 19 cents. Been noticing the same at grocery stores. That or they're reducing the packaging size.

[JUGGERNAUT1333]

Why TF do you need a study to prove that forcing employers to pay double for the same labor is going to cause them to either:

A) Jack up prices
B) Reduce worker hours
C) Cut workers
D) Move towards automation
E) Close shop

Literally takes .02 seconds of logical thinking to figure that out.


I just noticed at my local CVS they jacked up everything on the $1 section 19 cents. Been noticing the same at grocery stores. That or they're reducing the packaging size.

Seriously. This sums it all up. Employer is losing money. They aren't going to just take the loss and move on. Someone is gonna pay, and its going to be the consumers. Not the CEOs.

[UACdarknova]

McDonalds worker: we want $15 an hour

McDonalds:

[faxanadu]

huge problem for morale for those long term employers ^^

Also, in my area a lot of jobs that start around $15 an hour require certifications like lift training, EMT, hell even small town police barely crack $15 an hour. Why apply for those jobs and spent your money and time on training when you can bag groceries for the same wage.

What i expect to happen is wages for those with jobs will rise proportionately. Further imbalances will be offset by automation and labor cuts.

In the short term i bet there is a slight jump in consumer spending and chit ... which causes the morons to go "See it's working!" and then eventually it levels out as people squander their money and businesses adjust.

[Lefticle]

Haha! Idiots!

[AlbinoScience]

Saw this too.

Conservatives might want to hold off on the celebration until it's actually reviewed. At the moment it's no better than an opinion piece.

Seems interesting and looking forward to seeing whether it holds up

Be careful brah, misc hates moderates and/or people that are educated enough to know that not everything is black and white.

[Ml16121]

Of course it's not, because it's propaganda and the minute it gets peer reviewed it will get debunked

How the media can post a paper which hasn't been peer reviewed is beyond me, but they make their own rules now

This is how a good proportion of the world came to believe that vaccines cause autism

There's no point in discussing a paper that hasn't been peer reviewed.

[JUGGERNAUT1333]

What i expect to happen is wages for those with jobs will rise proportionately.

This can cause an issue for all the $15-$17 an hour workers. They will want more money, employer can't afford full-time raises for them, so they lose hours, cut positions... basically all the same fallout from the minimum wage jobs.

[midcoastking33]

automation is coming irregardless

[WarriorRustler]

Why TF do you need a study to prove that forcing employers to pay double for the same labor is going to cause them to either:

A) Jack up prices
B) Reduce worker hours
C) Cut workers
D) Move towards automation
E) Close shop

Literally takes .02 seconds of logical thinking to figure that out.


I just noticed at my local CVS they jacked up everything on the $1 section 19 cents. Been noticing the same at grocery stores. That or they're reducing the packaging size.

The problem with liberals is that they are stupid. They do not have the intelligence to understand this.

[7rmr]

Why TF do you need a study to prove that forcing employers to pay double for the same labor is going to cause them to either:

A) Jack up prices
B) Reduce worker hours
C) Cut workers
D) Move towards automation
E) Close shop

Literally takes .02 seconds of logical thinking to figure that out.


I just noticed at my local CVS they jacked up everything on the $1 section 19 cents. Been noticing the same at grocery stores. That or they're reducing the packaging size.

Because past research on increasing the minimum wage has found that the increased costs are offset by the increased purchasing power resulting in no drop in employment.

A thought experiment is usually a pretty poor way to study the outcomes of economic policy.

Personally, I don't support raising the minimumw age to $15 an hour, as has also been proposed here in Ontario, but at least stick to arguing points supported by research.

[faxanadu]

They would of gotten away with this moronic'ness if they hadn't raised it so high. That's how you know people running the government are idiotic and couldn't hack it in the corporate world.

The companies that produce the items you see at the grocery store know exactly how much the need to adjust their products to keep consumers from noticing/caring too much. They know from psychological studies that price increases and packaging decreases by certain percentage points keeps people from getting angry. It's basically the boiling frog analogy. However, in Seattle, they just take a flame thrower to the frog.

I bet all the people that were getting paid $15/hour before the hike got pissed.

[faxanadu]

Because past research on increasing the minimum wage has found that the increased costs are offset by the increased purchasing power resulting in no drop in employment.

A thought experiment is usually a pretty poor way to study the outcomes of economic policy.

Personally, I don't support raising the minimumw age to $15 an hour, as has also been proposed here in Ontario, but at least stick to arguing points supported by research.

Your points are not supported by research. Saying so doesn't make it so.

[WarriorRustler]

Because past research on increasing the minimum wage has found that the increased costs are offset by the increased purchasing power resulting in no drop in employment.

A thought experiment is usually a pretty poor way to study the outcomes of economic policy.

Personally, I don't support raising the minimumw age to $15 an hour, as has also been proposed here in Ontario, but at least stick to arguing points supported by research.

Hey moron, those points are all facts, but yes lets just ignore reality like you keep doing here.

[bobsapp]

Sad thing is, no other city in North America is going to learn from this.

If you're going to raise minimum wage to $15/hr, then you HAVE to give small business some tax breaks or some sort of compensation. Get rid of stat pay on holidays, bring taxes down, etc. Middle class is getting fukd up the ass by government across North America.

[Layne205]

Peer review = circle jerk. Nothing could be more useless than peer review. Your work should have to be reviewed by your enemies, and if even they have to concede that you're right, you're probably right.

[solidus2k3]

Goes to show that arbitrarily increasing wages does not raise standard of living. Sad!

[RonaldMcflurry]

If you're going to raise minimum wage to $15/hr, then you HAVE to give small business some tax breaks or some sort of compensation. Get rid of stat pay on holidays, bring taxes down, etc. Middle class is getting fukd up the ass by government across North America.

/thread

[Sethylis]

Because past research on increasing the minimum wage has found that the increased costs are offset by the increased purchasing power resulting in no drop in employment.

A thought experiment is usually a pretty poor way to study the outcomes of economic policy.

Personally, I don't support raising the minimumw age to $15 an hour, as has also been proposed here in Ontario, but at least stick to arguing points supported by research.

So Herp currently makes $9.00/HR and works 20 hours a week.
McDonalds pays him roughly $9.00 x 80 (20 hours a week x 4 weeks) = $720 a month.

Minimum wage goes up to $15.00/HR.
Herp now makes $15 x 80 = $1200 a month.

Herp is making 60% more than he currently was for the same work and same experience. Where does McDonalds make that 60%? People are going to have to start buying a chit ton more McDonalds for that to level out.

So now McDonalds says fcuk this noise, we're going to rollout some self service machines. We can get rid of 3 cashiers, while still having their job get accomplished.
Now Herp has no job.