MISC Crypto Crew (MCC) Vol.1 Ethereum is getting flushed faster than my morning deuce

[propreffered7]

Bitcoin is semi-anonymous. The actual transactions within the network are pretty tough to track, but the moment you interface with your bank account the IRS and everything else can see. That's where the tax implications come in, when you realize your gains.

Option 1 is the right thing
Option 3 is possible

How many coins would you say you've held over the years you've been trading?

Not talking specific number of bitcoin, I mean how many variations of coins have you held?

[propreffered7]

also keep track of your losses. you can net them against your gains

Also, I think you can only claim up to 3,000 in losses

[johnnycash123]

Waves looking like a bargin

[lowstrife]

How many coins would you say you've held over the years you've been trading?

Not talking specific number of bitcoin, I mean how many variations of coins have you held?

I've traded, roughly in sequential order

BTC
LTC
NMC, PPC, NVC, TRC
DRK (rebranded today as DASH)
DOGE
VTC
BLK
MINT
XRP
XMR
ETH
ETC
BFX


I think that's most of them. Some I traded very little, but others like bitcoin or litecoin I've traded a ton of.

Yeah true I guess.

I know for a fact it's a bot but it's hard to explain without you just watching the kraken order book and seeing for yourself. You'll realize within an hour it's 100% a bot.

Every single exchange has market maker bots. They supply liquidity and tighten the spread. There are also arbitrage bots who play the differences in pricing between different exchanges. There are also proprietary trading bots who are normal traders who have coded programs to make automated trading calls.

I've talked with people from all 3 camps at length about how they do their work.

"Bots" are everywhere.

The bot for ICN is programmed to follow the trend of BTC if that helps anyone.

I've watched the chart for a good 30 hours over the past 4-5 days to try and figure out why its doing what its doing.

If you line up both graphs you'll see:

Altcoins, across the board, have a high correlation to BTC's underlying value. They undergo their own pumps\dumps; but if BTC has a big move, altcoins typically have either a direct inverse or a direct converse corresponding move. It's because they share liquidity sources. And a lot of altcoin trading happens against USDT instead of BTC itself; so the overall market structure becomes a lot more interconnected and complex.

Think of altcoins like exponential ontop of bitcoin. They amplify moves BTC makes because their market caps are smaller and easier to move. Bitcoin goes up they go up by more. It goes down, they go down by more.

[mcdojo]

Bitcoin is semi-anonymous. The actual transactions within the network are pretty tough to track, but the moment you interface with your bank account the IRS and everything else can see. That's where the tax implications come in, when you realize your gains.

Option 1 is the right thing
Option 3 is possible

Yup

Bitcoin and resulting altcoins lose ALOT of anonomity if you're transferring back to fiat. You need to buy stuff with the currency directly if you want any chance of avoiding tax.

However, that only works if you bought coins from other people direct. If you signed up with an exchange which forced you to provide ID, even if you bought stuff with Bitcoin directly you'd be fuked. Since the government can subpoena your buy and sell, transfer activity.

[TruKnight]

Something to keep in mind is you owe capital gains as soon as you make a trade. If you trade BTC for ETH and make profit but don't cash any of those profits out into fiat, you still owe capital gains on that transaction.

what about just buying into eth using btc without a trade back out of it yet? I get that converting back is possibly taxable, but what about the initial buy in? I mean, there aren't any profits yet from that to be taxed on right? this seems like they can double and triple dip on you and reduce any alt coin trading profits to a pittance.

and how do you have a tax liability on something that only shows unrealized paper profits that you don't actually have dollars to show for it? like say you did a ton of altcoin trading and your portfolio shows you have 'made' 350k from 1k investment, but you have at no point cashed that into dollars yet, is that taxable? and if so, how on earth would you pay a 30% tax on it without having to sell off that much of it, triggering yet another tax event in the process? ive tried to find out what the irs stance on altcoin trading is, but so far the response is 'awfukbye' cause this is so new they don't have a clue yet.

[Vbrah]

Also, I think you can only claim up to 3,000 in losses

you can net all of your losses against the gains. if you have more losses than gains you can deduct 3000 of those against your regular income and carry any remaining loss over to the next year

edit: these are based on us tax code, foreign brahs should look up their own

[propreffered7]

I've traded, roughly in sequential order

BTC
LTC
NMC, PPC, NVC, TRC
DRK (rebranded today as DASH)
DOGE
VTC
BLK
MINT
XRP
XMR
ETH
ETC
BFX


I think that's most of them. Some I traded very little, but others like bitcoin or litecoin I've traded a ton of.



Every single exchange has market maker bots. They supply liquidity and tighten the spread. There are also arbitrage bots who play the differences in pricing between different exchanges. There are also proprietary trading bots who are normal traders who have coded programs to make automated trading calls.

I've talked with people from all 3 camps at length about how they do their work.

"Bots" are everywhere.



Altcoins, across the board, have a high correlation to BTC's underlying value. They undergo their own pumps\dumps; but if BTC has a big move, altcoins typically have either a direct inverse or a direct converse corresponding move. It's because they share liquidity sources. And a lot of altcoin trading happens against USDT instead of BTC itself; so the overall market structure becomes a lot more interconnected and complex.

Think of altcoins like exponential ontop of bitcoin. They amplify moves BTC makes because their market caps are smaller and easier to move. Bitcoin goes up they go up by more. It goes down, they go down by more.

Cool. Thanks

Just trying to get a feel for the failure rate of coins, and perhaps ascension of coins from relative obscurity

[Vbrah]

what about just buying into eth using btc without a trade back out of it yet? I get that converting back is possibly taxable, but what about the initial buy in? I mean, there aren't any profits yet from that to be taxed on right? this seems like they can double and triple dip on you and reduce any alt coin trading profits to a pittance.

and how do you have a tax liability on something that only shows unrealized paper profits that you don't actually have dollars to show for it? like say you did a ton of altcoin trading and your portfolio shows you have 'made' 350k from 1k investment, but you have at no point cashed that into dollars yet, is that taxable? and if so, how on earth would you pay a 30% tax on it without having to sell off that much of it, triggering yet another tax event in the process? ive tried to find out what the irs stance on altcoin trading is, but so far the response is 'awfukbye' cause this is so new they don't have a clue yet.

according to irs cryptos are treated as property for tax purposes. if you "trade" property with other property, you should actually pay tax if the fair market value of the property you received is greater than what you gave up. there doesnt need to be cash involved.

[XabstractX]

what about just buying into eth using btc without a trade back out of it yet? I get that converting back is possibly taxable, but what about the initial buy in? I mean, there aren't any profits yet from that to be taxed on right? this seems like they can double and triple dip on you and reduce any alt coin trading profits to a pittance.

and how do you have a tax liability on something that only shows unrealized paper profits that you don't actually have dollars to show for it? like say you did a ton of altcoin trading and your portfolio shows you have 'made' 350k from 1k investment, but you have at no point cashed that into dollars yet, is that taxable? and if so, how on earth would you pay a 30% tax on it without having to sell off that much of it, triggering yet another tax event in the process? ive tried to find out what the irs stance on altcoin trading is, but so far the response is 'awfukbye' cause this is so new they don't have a clue yet.

1. You buy 10 bitcoin for 1k each
2. Let's say you waited 5 minutes and bitcoin is now worth $1005. You decide to buy 20 eth for 2 bitcoin. Right at this point your gains are realized on 2 bitcoins, you've profited 2 x $5 for a total of $10. You owe capital gains tax on $10. To properly file your taxes you need to use Adjusted Cost Base (ACB) where you keep track of every coin as it comes in and goes out and use something like FIFO (First in, First out) to track exactly which specific instance of each coin were worth what when they entered/left. It is absolutely a nightmare but there's a bitcoin tax website that does a good job of doing this by inputting trades exported from major exchanges.

The government doesn't care how you get the money to pay the capital gains. It is just as screwed up as it sounds, you could pay all your taxes and have your exchange Gox you the next week.

PS there's no double dipping. If you sell the 20 eth for $2020 that's just another $10 gain.

[lowstrife]

Cool. Thanks

Just trying to get a feel for the failure rate of coins, and perhaps ascension of coins from relative obscurity

I never held onto many of them for very long. My trading style is market making; very quick in and out. I rarely sleep in anything other than bitcoin. So I guess my history doesn't really answer the point of view you're looking at.

Many of the small cap coins do crazy pump and dumps though.

https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/mintcoin/

This one for example 10x'd in a few days, and has 90% retraced the entire rally. True pump & dump.

[Parkerscott]

lol I never said eth was a **** coin I just stated facts. They both have their upsides and downsides.

You're just begging to have that grill in your backyard stolen

no more weekend cookouts, tours over boyo

ETC does not have any upside you mongoloid. Pretty sure they have duped people with fake news a couple months back as well.

[swaggsta]

This is painful. Pls hold 250

[lordpatrick]

This is painful. Pls hold 250

Tour's over. We're all crying

[lowstrife]

Tour's over. We're all crying

Bids are still at $120-140. If it doesn't hit oh well, but that's strong structure support.

[swaggsta]

Tour's over. We're all crying

not like dis

[TruKnight]

1. You buy 10 bitcoin for 1k each
2. Let's say you waited 5 minutes and bitcoin is now worth $1005. You decide to buy 20 eth for 2 bitcoin. Right at this point your gains are realized on 2 bitcoins, you've profited 2 x $5 for a total of $10. You owe capital gains tax on $10. To properly file your taxes you need to use Adjusted Cost Base (ACB) where you keep track of every coin as it comes in and goes out and use something like FIFO (First in, First out) to track exactly which specific instance of each coin were worth what when they entered/left. It is absolutely a nightmare but there's a bitcoin tax website that does a good job of doing this by inputting trades exported from major exchanges.

The government doesn't care how you get the money to pay the capital gains. It is just as screwed up as it sounds, you could pay all your taxes and have your exchange Gox you the next week.

PS there's no double dipping. If you sell the 20 eth for $2020 that's just another $10 gain.

I was afraid that was how it worked. that is fked up hardcore. no wonder the economy barely ticks over at 1% growth with rules like this, why bother when its almost a zero sum game. it sounds like the day trader brahs are in for a world of hurt, glad im only doing this as a long term holder.

but if you have to sell your coins to cover the tax, wont you get hit for even more taxes just converting back out into fiat initiating a vicious cycle? it seems worse than double dipping, its like they are dipping in on every step of the process, and only leaving you with a pittance of unrealized digital 'profits' sitting in crypto, which as you said, this space is so volatile it can evaporate the next day and wipe you out, with no refunds and only a pittance of which you can deduct as a loss!

according to irs cryptos are treated as property for tax purposes. if you "trade" property with other property, you should actually pay tax if the fair market value of the property you received is greater than what you gave up. there doesnt need to be cash involved.

so if I have 5 apples and trade them for 5 oranges, and oranges are considered to have greater value the government is going to just take one of my oranges? id have more food if I kept my apples...

[lordpatrick]

Bids are still at $120-140. If it doesn't hit oh well, but that's strong structure support.

Yeah not worried too much. Just trying to make sense of it all. Been searching for reasons for these dips online, can't find any. I guess it really is just a "dump for a pump" play by the big boys.

I read an interesting thread on reddit about a guy crying about coinbase and litecoin, accusing them of a chinese scheme. But litecoin took a nice hit too, a lower one granted, but still significant.

[swaggsta]

rip all, hold me pls

[lowstrife]

Yeah not worried too much. Just trying to make sense of it all. Been searching for reasons for these dips online, can't find any. I guess it really is just a "dump for a pump" play by the big boys.

I read an interesting thread on reddit about a guy crying about coinbase and litecoin, accusing them of a chinese scheme. But litecoin took a nice hit too, a lower one granted, but still significant.

No, it's just natural market moves. Things go up and down as market forces imbalance. People are buying\selling all of these coins every day.

[lordpatrick]

just LOL at ****coin ETC and cloackcoin's gains


edit : gonna buy some ETH when it hits 90- 100

[zhengterry]

rip all, hold me pls

[manjay]

Last few weeks only just gotten into crypto but I'm starting to think all crypto currencies at this stage are still heavily traded purely for financial transactions/gain and not the tech benefits. Although a lot more money and interest is starting to flow into it I'd say it's largely speculators driving this, and not the actual business successes/applications actually using the block chain techs and operating successful businesses off it.

ICOs are a great example.. speculators driving bubble like investments into concepts that don't even have functioning products. In the long term I think this will only harm up take of the tech to the average person. In the medium term I'm hoping legit businesses and dreamers like vitalik can sustain positive developments and bring it mainstream.

[Serenadium]

just LOL at ****coin ETC and cloackcoin's gains


edit : gonna buy some ETH when it hits 90- 100

Cloakcoin is anything but a **** coin.

Privacy coin with one of the best tech, has no premine + open source is coming.

Is easily in the discussion with Monero, Zcash, PIVX, Dash.

[anonymous]

Coinbase is back up guys.

Also whilst the prices are low, what do you think i'd be best to buy into from btc, eth, and ltc?

EDIT: ltc it is.

[swaggsta]

US is soon gonna wake up. Prepper ur angus.

[anonymous]

US is soon gonna wake up. Prepper ur angus.

You think mass buy, or mass sell?

[inq]

Coinbase is back up guys.

Also whilst the prices are low, what do you think i'd be best to buy into from btc, eth, and ltc?

EDIT: ltc it is.

Just bought ETH, hoping the dip rebounds this morning.

What else are some good deals right now? Should I add Siacoin or Golem to my portfolio?

[swaggsta]

You think mass buy, or mass sell?

im thinking mass sell, but idk. Just a guess, impossible to predict.

[lordpatrick]

im thinking mass sell, but idk. Just a guess, impossible to predict.

Harvey Specter, don't depress us more than we already are !

Coinbase is back up guys.

Also whilst the prices are low, what do you think i'd be best to buy into from btc, eth, and ltc?

EDIT: ltc it is.

I'm actually shilling litecoin on Dota 2. Spamming that **** every time I stomp games. Getting more and more people on LTC