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  1. #31
    Registered User Audioslave's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LukeLissen View Post
    It was in no way this kid's fault he was taken hostage and injured.

    It's also unlikely he committed the crime the NK rats accused him of. He was a hostage taken to be used for bargaining.

    Praise to President Trump for getting him out of there and giving the family closure.
    He willing went to a country run under a brutal dictatorship. Like I said, if you want to swim with the sharks you risk getting bit. It's a sad story, but should be a lesson for people who are considering making the same mistake.
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  2. #32
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    Originally Posted by Audioslave View Post
    He willing went to a country run under a brutal dictatorship. Like I said, if you want to swim with the sharks you risk getting bit. It's a sad story, but should be a lesson for people who are considering making the same mistake.
    A young guy is walking alone in a bad neighborhood at night and he gets jumped. The police have the power to at least try to do something about it. You're arguing they shouldn't because it would be a "lesson" to others?
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  3. #33
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    While this is sad people calling for the nuking of 25 million civilians out of emotion is pretty sad too
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  4. #34
    Registered User Audioslave's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by miscinbro View Post
    A young guy is walking alone in a bad neighborhood at night and he gets jumped. The police have the power to at least try to do something about it. You're arguing they shouldn't because it would be a "lesson" to others?
    Absolutely not. But that is because in the United States of America we have police to protect us and our rights. If you think you're going to have that same kind of freedom and protection in North Korea then think again.
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  5. #35
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    Originally Posted by miscinbro View Post
    A young guy is walking alone in a bad neighborhood at night and he gets jumped. The police have the power to at least try to do something about it. You're arguing they shouldn't because it would be a "lesson" to others?
    Which part of his post suggests anything of the sort?

    He is simply pointing out how Otto's actions contributed to his own demise.
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  6. #36
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    Originally Posted by Audioslave View Post
    Absolutely not. But that is because in the United States of America we have police to protect us and our rights. If you think you're going to have that same kind of freedom and protection in North Korea then think again.
    I'm saying that when Americans are getting fcked abroad for BS "laws" we should try to protect them. I don't care if they may have acted foolishly.

    Originally Posted by Kiknskreem View Post
    ... Otto's actions contributed to his own demise.
    Yea, that part was clearly incorporated into my hypothetical.
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  7. #37
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    Sucks, but he made a bad call and now he will have to live? with the consequences...
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  8. #38
    Mr. Gecko Kiknskreem's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by miscinbro View Post
    Yea, that part was clearly incorporated into my hypothetical.
    You don't seem to read very well. I didn't say your post didn't account for that.

    I pointed out how audioslave's post was merely making that point, and your question of "you're arguing they shouldn't do anything?" in no way follows from his post.
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  9. #39
    Registered User Audioslave's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by miscinbro View Post
    I'm saying that when Americans are getting fcked abroad for BS "laws" we should try to protect them. I don't care if they may have acted foolishly.
    Sure, you could try to protect them. But I know I wouldn't feel comfortable that my country is going to negotiate a deal with North Korea to get me back. I am not saying the law isn't BS. All I'm saying is don't go to North Korea.
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  10. #40
    Registered User miscinbro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Kiknskreem View Post
    You don't seem to read very well. I didn't say your post didn't account for that.

    I pointed out how audioslave's post was merely making that point, and your question of "you're arguing they shouldn't do anything?" in no way follows from his post.
    Stop with the little personal barbs, alright?

    Are you suggesting his post implies the US should do what they can to get people like him back?
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  11. #41
    Registered User miscinbro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Audioslave View Post
    Sure, you could try to protect them. But I know I wouldn't feel comfortable that my country is going to negotiate a deal with North Korea to get me back. I am not saying the law isn't BS. All I'm saying is don't go to North Korea.
    I don't mean a deal, we should never negotiate with terrorists, which is how NK operates, but real active measures should be taken. People, from NK to Columbian drug gangs should know that fcking with Americans isn't something we will rollover on. Even if that American is doing something stupid - like visiting NK.
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  12. #42
    Mr. Gecko Kiknskreem's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by miscinbro View Post
    Are you suggesting his post implies the US should do what they can to get people like him back?
    No. In no way, shape, or form, did his post in any way address what the US should or should not do.

    Hence why it made no sense for you to ask if he was arguing that we shouldn't do anything to help.

    He was merely making the point that Otto did in fact hold some fault for his predicament, in response to a post which stated otherwise.
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  13. #43
    Registered User miscinbro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Kiknskreem View Post
    No. In no way, shape, or form, did his post in any way address what the US should or should not do.

    Hence why it made no sense for you to ask if he was arguing that we shouldn't do anything to help.

    He was merely making the point that Otto did in fact hold some fault for his predicament, in response to a post which stated otherwise.
    So without resorting to personal barbs, do you understand what a hypothetical questioned ended with a question mark is designed to do?
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  14. #44
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    Originally Posted by miscinbro View Post
    So without resorting to personal barbs, do you understand what a hypothetical questioned ended with a question mark is designed to do?
    The question "You're arguing they shouldn't because it would be a "lesson" to others?" implies you think he is arguing that.

    Perhaps you simply meant to ask if he thinks the US shouldn't help, in which case the question would be "Do you think they shouldn't?" and not "You're arguing they shouldn't?"

    I'm sorry you have such a tenuous grasp on the English language.
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  15. #45
    Registered User Audioslave's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by miscinbro View Post
    I don't mean a deal, we should never negotiate with terrorists, which is how NK operates, but real active measures should be taken. People, from NK to Columbian drug gangs should know that fcking with Americans isn't something we will rollover on. Even if that American is doing something stupid - like visiting NK.
    If they take one of our citizens while they were in their country breaking one of their laws then they have the upper hand. We could try to place pressure on them, etc. but we've been trying to do that in regards to far bigger things like nuclear weapons. The idea of trying to pressure the world into treating Americans differently in their countries is a very tricky path and most likely a very unsuccessful one. It doesn't mean I don't think America should try if they can, but I know it wouldn't make a top priority list.
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  16. #46
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    you have a chance to go anywhere in the world and you choose NK. i dont get it
    the whole thing is sad, especially if he didnt steal anything.
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  17. #47
    Registered User miscinbro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Kiknskreem View Post
    The question "You're arguing they shouldn't because it would be a "lesson" to others?" implies you think he is arguing that.

    Perhaps you simply meant to ask if he thinks the US shouldn't help, in which case the question would be "Do you think they shouldn't?" and not "You're arguing they shouldn't?"

    I'm sorry you have such a tenuous grasp on the English language.
    So, no you don't understand the Socratic use of a hypothetical.

    And now you're all about what the language "implies." What do you think 'it's sad, but swim with the sharks you get bit" implies?

    But it's clear you're not here to discuss in good faith - I am - so this will probably be the end of our exchange.
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  18. #48
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    Originally Posted by CaliSuperSport View Post
    [/B]

    Been reading comments like these ever since this story dropped - and I still struggle to understand this sentiment.

    To me this is no different that chastising a woman for being stoned to death for defacing a Quran. I find it odd how criticizing this guy's actions often takes priority over criticizing NK's insane human rights violations.

    By the standards of any reasonable person, no one deserves to lose their life for ripping a poster.
    Originally Posted by LukeLissen View Post
    It was in no way this kid's fault he was taken hostage and injured.

    It's also unlikely he committed the crime the NK rats accused him of. He was a hostage taken to be used for bargaining.

    Praise to President Trump for getting him out of there and giving the family closure.
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  19. #49
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    Originally Posted by miscinbro View Post
    I don't mean a deal, we should never negotiate with terrorists, which is how NK operates, but real active measures should be taken. People, from NK to Columbian drug gangs should know that fcking with Americans isn't something we will rollover on. Even if that American is doing something stupid - like visiting NK.
    I'm all for being patriotic,loving my country, and representing it but when I step outside of those borders and into another country's, I better be on my best behavior and abide by their law, especially when it's a dictatorship. It's absolutely idiotic for anyone besides journalist to go to NK. The kid didn't deserve death,but I'm not surprised to hear him coming back and dying soon thereafter.
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  20. #50
    Registered User miscinbro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Audioslave View Post
    If they take one of our citizens while they were in their country breaking one of their laws then they have the upper hand. We could try to place pressure on them, etc. but we've been trying to do that in regards to far bigger things like nuclear weapons. The idea of trying to pressure the world into treating Americans differently in their countries is a very tricky path and most likely a very unsuccessful one. It doesn't mean I don't think America should try if they can, but I know it wouldn't make a top priority list.
    I can respect that. Although I don't think NK is treating Americans there "the same" - like another poster said he may never have even touched anything. However, it's a thin line, I just think we should be as brazen as we can be, without putting other goals in danger, to send a message.
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  21. #51
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    Originally Posted by miscinbro View Post
    So, no you don't understand the Socratic use of a hypothetical.
    If you ask someone if they're arguing XYZ, its because you think they are arguing that, or their post at least suggests as much. Since he neither argued that, nor suggested anything of the sort, your question makes no sense.

    Like if you tell me you like the color purple, and I ask "So you're saying you hate the color green?"

    It simply doesn't follow.

    In this case, he pointed out how Otto's actions contributed to his own demise. To which you ask "So you're arguing we shouldn't do anything?"

    Again, the question doesn't follow because the statement implies nothing of the sort.


    Originally Posted by miscinbro View Post
    And now you're all about what the language "implies." What do you think 'it's sad, but swim with the sharks bit you get bit" implies?
    That the negative outcome was a foreseeable result of his actions.
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    Originally Posted by Kiknskreem View Post
    he pointed out how Otto's actions contributed to his own demise.
    +1

    Just like how a nice old couple is at fault for getting killed by a drunk driver when they should have just kept their ass at home, right!????
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    Originally Posted by Dan_Staat View Post
    anyone who would go into that country for any reason, willingly, deserves exactly what they get. Do they not watch the news?
    I have to agree with this. Feel bad for him but any moron that decides to vacation I'm north Korea, iran and any other backwards nation shouldn't be shocked when things go sideways
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    Originally Posted by LukeLissen View Post
    Just like how a nice old couple is at fault for getting killed by a drunk driver when they should have just kept their ass at home, right!????
    Maybe a more apt comparison would be if the old couple went for a drive with all their vehicle's lights out right after bar closing time on New Years eve.
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    Originally Posted by LukeLissen View Post
    +1

    Just like how a nice old couple is at fault for getting killed by a drunk driver when they should have just kept their ass at home, right!????
    Talk about a false equivalency. In the United States we have law and law enforcement to protect our rights. When you step into North Korea you have as good as surrendered any rights you had.
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    Apart from all of this political discussion ...

    The family made the right decision to allow him to pass.

    There's no good reason to keep a hopelessly and severely brain damaged person alive. Its torture to them and to their loved ones.

    Remove all life support and give them some comforting benzo and opioid and let them go.
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    How does someone even get to NK, just book a flight?
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    Originally Posted by chickenbroc**** View Post
    How does someone even get to NK, just book a flight?
    i think they book it through a third party company in China, which pioneers touring or wtv shut down after otto died..
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    Originally Posted by chickenbroc**** View Post
    How does someone even get to NK, just book a flight?
    Yep.

    Just strap yourself to a 2000 lb JDAM on a B-1B. Its a helluva drop though.
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    Originally Posted by chickenbroc**** View Post
    How does someone even get to NK, just book a flight?
    You need to book through one of the travel companies that organizes it all. You then fly to China or Malaysia, or some place in Russia, transfer to North Korea's airline and fly with them to Pyongyang. Obviously South Koreans cannot go, as an American South Korean you are playing with fire
    Thousands of western tourists visit NK every year with no problems
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