Tried the "Fierce 5" work out..not sure if I'm feeling it.

[tommydamic68]

So tonight I tried the "Fierce 5" work out for the novice -https: //forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=15967863. Ive been working out over 2 years and feel I have plateaued. I did start somewhat easy as far as weight, but it didn't seem to make me feel as I normally do on a work out night, I am usually a bit more tired and have a feeling of doing a really good work out. I'll show you what I normally would have done on what I will call my chest and tricep night.

Here is the "A" work out I did for the F5 program:
Workout A
Squat 3x5 -75 pounds (shut up - my legs need work - lol)
Bench 3x5 - 115 pounds
Pendlay Rows 3x8 - 95 pounds
Face Pulls 3x10 -65 pounds
Calf raises 2x15/Tricep pressdowns 2x10 Superset - calf 180 pounds and tricep Pull downs- 50 pounds

My chest - tricep work out:
bench DB 60 pounds 4x8
bench barbell assist - 90 pounds 4x8
Skull crushers - 50 pounds 4x8
tricep pull downs 50 pounds 4x8
chest cable press 3x10
and perhaps another random chest exercise as well as another tricep exercise.
a random leg exercise.

Thoughts or suggestions?

[RK42]

Thoughts or suggestions?

Try it more than once? Starting a new program with weights you can handle easily is a good idea. But of course this means that the first workout will seem very easy. The progression on these novice programs is quite aggressive. If you follow it for some time, it probably won't take very long before it will feel a whole lot harder.

Also, I know you requested that we shut up about your squats , but if you squat 75 lbs after 2 years of training (even if that is includes reducing the weight for a new program), what you did so far did not get you good results. Using a program that has proven successful for many people, and giving it a fair shot for a few months, sounds like a good idea.

[sfleen]

I've been doing fierce 5 novice for 7 weeks, minus this last week because of a job change. I haven't worked out much since the military, over 25 years ago. At first I felt like you, that I wasn't getting much of a workout, not very sore, etc. I started with the weights light but now am struggling to finish the last set of bench press, squat, overhead press, etc after increasing the weight. I also didn't think 40 minutes would be long enough to get a good workout in. I was wrong. Increase the weight, and increase it weekly and I think you'll be surprised at how fast the weight goes up. I could barely squat 3x5 of 110# when I started, tonight I did 160#. Pretty much the same with bench. If the next 7 weeks go like the last 7, I'll be over 200# on both excersizes.

[TnTNZ]

Thoughts or suggestions?

Keep going with the program as written. Come back to us in 8 weeks and tell us you still think it's not working. You should be squatting around 150-160lb by then. If you still think it's not working, come back in another 8 weeks when you're squatting 240lb and tell us you think it's still not working.

The program states you should not be struggling for the first 3-4 weeks.

Give it at least 12 weeks before you decide to change. 2 years of training and your squat is where it is? You follow this program and you'll get more progress in 12 weeks than you've had in 2 years. Srs.

Also make sure you're eating for your goals.

[tommydamic68]

Thanks for the encouragement fellas. I'll keep it going and see, will update in a few weeks.

[tommydamic68]

I double posted, mod - if you could remove one please do. Question to all, when it says hit bench, can you switch it up from regular barbrell to incline or using dumb bells on a flat bench every other time? Also, what if I struggle to hit 5 reps when adding weight, do I skip a week adding the 5 or 10 additional pounds or shoot for additional reps instead.

[katya422]

I double posted, mod - if you could remove one please do. Question to all, when it says hit bench, can you switch it up from regular barbrell to incline or using dumb bells on a flat bench every other time? Also, what if I struggle to hit 5 reps when adding weight, do I skip a week adding the 5 or 10 additional pounds or shoot for additional reps instead.

If by "struggle to hit" you mean lose form then that is a failed rep as I understand it and you wouldn't add the next time.

Just curious...is the 180# calf raise with a barbell? I just have a hard time understanding doing 180# for calf raises then so much less for squat.

I'm stuck around 135# on squats, but my calf raises are only @ 95#.

To me that seems like maybe you need some mobility work or need to try a different form of squat because what you are doing may not work for your body mechanics.

[Zocas]

It starts out very easily imo. I was like why am I am wasting my time.... HAHAHHAA!!!!!!!!! Give it a few weeks bro. You will start feeling it. It is a good program and I actually started building up real quick.
Mine looked like

A.
Squats 5x3
Flat DB Press 8x3
DB Row 5x3
Dips (weighted) 5x3

B.
Squats 5x3
Dead lift 5x8
Wide grip pull ups 5x3
Incline DB Press 5x3

Not the best example but it was pretty wicked. I am pretty much on the same now. I had a log going for awhile. My squats probably started around 75 80 something and I am at 160 now. I think my DB Press started around 55s. I am at 80s now. I would have progressed more, but I am actually trying to get rid of my small gut and get my 6pac kicking again. After that I will probably start hammering it again.

Give it a chance man, I think you will be impressed.

[Zocas]

Oh yeah, you have to switch it up. Incline and flat. Really squats should be front and regular. I never switched up the squats, but everything else I did. I also added in some tri work on flat DB Press day or used the dips to focus a bit more on tris and on pull up days did a few curls here and there.

[Sweetums6000]

what if I struggle to hit 5 reps when adding weight, do I skip a week adding the 5 or 10 additional pounds or shoot for additional reps instead.

You always add weight if you successfully completed all your reps (with good form) last week (even if you don't think you will be able to). If you are unable to do all your reps on each set during a workout, you try it one more time at the same weight next time, and if you fail again you do the 15% reset next time and start working your way back up again.

This way it forces you to push yourself, but gives you a break and lets you work submaximally for a while when you reach your limit.

[tommydamic68]

If by "struggle to hit" you mean lose form then that is a failed rep as I understand it and you wouldn't add the next time.

Just curious...is the 180# calf raise with a barbell? I just have a hard time understanding doing 180# for calf raises then so much less for squat.

I'm stuck around 135# on squats, but my calf raises are only @ 95#.

To me that seems like maybe you need some mobility work or need to try a different form of squat because what you are doing may not work for your body mechanics.

The 180 is on a machine. 4 - 45 plates. The squats i'm doing with a barbell. I surely could have done more but started a bit light to check my form.

[rekud300]

Just did my 2nd workout with Fierce 5, and our Age (49) and lifting numbers are about the same across the board, I am starting out about 20lbs higher on some of the lifts.

I purposely went light to start, knowing the progression seems pretty quick.

Also like you not only have I never been very strong my whole life(never worked out), my legs are my weakest point.
Started working out 3 years ago lost about 25lbs, and Benching and Squatting 1rm were about the same around 120lbs. On Bench I have hit a 170lb 1rm and Squat a 175rm, DL 2551rm and Overhead 125 1rm I was running one of the 4-day splits from this site since January made progress and excited I hit 5 strict pullups following that, but now I feel like I hit a plateau and just started going through the routine.

After reading about Fierce 5, decided to give it a try for 12 weeks and see how my progression goes.

Best of luck and would like to hear about your progression.

[tommydamic68]

So here is one issue, last night I did the overhead press (sitting down on a bench) and I normally do 85 pounds (this is the weights including the 45 pound bar). So I went to 90 pounds, 5 pounds heavier then normal being my norm was the 85, there is no way I'm going to be able to do 100 pound overhead press next week, not 3x5 anyway. So do you keep trying with the 5 pound addition of weights each week at that weight until you accomplish the 3x5 lifts? So this was some of my confusion with F5, should I have started "much" lighter then I normally lift, that didn't seem to make much sense to me if so, I've work months to get to the 85 pounds, why decrease? So what now? Also, front squats suck and my neck is sore, from what it looks like I can substitute front squats with dead lifts and a leg curl? (can i use a machine for the leg curl?) Thanks in advance.

Acceptable Substitutions
Front Squat/RDL-You have to swap both for a Deadlift and a leg curl. This isn’t an either or kind of substitution.
Front Squat-Paused back squats

[TnTNZ]

OHP: The preference is to do it standing. You should have started with 85% of what you lift, (the FAQ states this), and worked up. You shouldn't be going up in 10lb increments for upper body moves, only 5lb, (again in the FAQ).

The progression method is spelt out in the FAQ, (are you sensing a theme here?), if you fail a weight 2 times in a row, you reset and work back up. Do this, do not skip on it, this is the way to progress.

So what now? Keep going, if you got your reps this week at 90lb, next week is 95lb. If you fail 95lb two workouts in a row, reset the weight 10% and work back up. If you don't the week after is 100lb. Keep in mind OHP is a b!tch of a lift to progress. Pretty much everyone struggles with it.

Yeah Front Squats suck so you can swap it out with DL and leg curl, and yes a maching is fine, you're supposed to be hitting your hamstrings. But eventually you'll come to the same realisation I have recently... they suck, but they're really good for a whole bunch of other things.

[tommydamic68]

OHP: The preference is to do it standing. You should have started with 85% of what you lift, (the FAQ states this), and worked up. You shouldn't be going up in 10lb increments for upper body moves, only 5lb, (again in the FAQ).

The progression method is spelt out in the FAQ, (are you sensing a theme here?), if you fail a weight 2 times in a row, you reset and work back up. Do this, do not skip on it, this is the way to progress.

So what now? Keep going, if you got your reps this week at 90lb, next week is 95lb. If you fail 95lb two workouts in a row, reset the weight 10% and work back up. If you don't the week after is 100lb. Keep in mind OHP is a b!tch of a lift to progress. Pretty much everyone struggles with it.

Yeah Front Squats suck so you can swap it out with DL and leg curl, and yes a maching is fine, you're supposed to be hitting your hamstrings. But eventually you'll come to the same realisation I have recently... they suck, but they're really good for a whole bunch of other things.

Thanks, I will lower my weight next week, its starting to make more sense now.

[mejulian]

You can also micro-load with fractional plates.

http://www.treadmillfactory.ca/stren...ctional-plates

[EjnarKolinkar]

People often have one or another lift stall before the others. No reason not to keep the other lifts moving along if they are. Many ways to address individual lift stalls while keeping other fast progressing lifts moving.

[blue9steel]

You can also micro-load with fractional plates.

http://www.treadmillfactory.ca/stren...ctional-plates

I like and use fractional plates, but I wouldn't use them with Fierce 5, it's not designed for that type of progression.

[tommydamic68]

Hey guys,

So here I am almost one month into the fierce 5 program. Just to add to my diet change that I also did, Ive upped my calorie intake to about 750 calories a day as well. Ive gained about 2 pounds in the month time frame. A bit of belly fat, nothing horrible but overall size gain being my smedium does fit a bit more snug -lol. I can tell you this, I did start a bit lighter in weights then the 85% suggested, however, I am now at the point where I know this Thursday when its time to bump up in weight, I WILL struggle with that weight, specifically the squats front and regular and bench. Please give me suggestions as this is where did get a bit confused.

I am going to have to jump up in weight on squats to 90 pounds plus the bar which I think is about 45 pounds (the bar). I am currently at 70 plus the bar and was able to do the sets required no issue, little struggle but pushed out the reps. But I know I will struggle with the 2 45 plates and bar on squats this week on the weight change.

1. If I can't do the 3x5 reps on squats with the new weight- what then?

2. I will be going to 2 45 plates and the 45 bar on chest press, I can do it no prob, however, I hurt my shoulder a few months ago on this same amount of weight on a chest press and it was horrible, still lingers, what should I do? I don't want to injure myself BUT do want to move forward with gains. I have changed my form a bit and it does seem better thus far, that pain a little sore the following day but does go away for the most part.

Thanks in advance.

[Sweetums6000]

I answered your first question already in post #10.

I'm not going to touch the second question, but I have one of my own. Why are you adding 20 pounds to your squats instead of 10?

[tommydamic68]

I answered your first question already in post #10.

I'm not going to touch the second question, but I have one of my own. Why are you adding 20 pounds to your squats instead of 10?

Sorry- I forgot that answer- thanks, makes sense. And also, I just posted wrong amount, it would be 10 pound increase to 80.

Thanks for the reply.

[Sweetums6000]

No problem. You might want to get used to always thinking in terms of the total weight (including the bar), instead of thinking of the bar and the weights separately, to make it easier to keep track and figure out your resets and stuff.

[tommydamic68]

Hey guys, I'm about 5 weeks into the fierce 5 program and I am feeling pretty good about this program. I did have to buy wrist straps to assist me in front squats by looping them around the bar and holding straps pulling upward due to my lack of wrist flexibility. I wanted to share a pic of progress, I really don't have a before pic without a shirt on but i can see that I have bulked up a bit in the 5 weeks. I am going to continue the program and see where it takes me, thanks for everyones input.

[tommydamic68]

Guys - there is just no way I'm going to be able to do front squats. I was up to 115 and could get barely 3-4 out and I was leaning forward. I did substitute the front leg press and dead lifts tonight, however, I don't feel the core is being worked as well as the front squats...sucks!

[BecomingSmaller]

As per the acceptable substitutions, change front squat and romanian deadlift for the standard deadlift and leg curls.

[tommydamic68]

As per the acceptable substitutions, change front squat and romanian deadlift for the standard deadlift and leg curls.

I am a bit confused. I thought I would have to substitute DL and leg curls for the front squat but still do the RDL as well, that excerise gave me no issue.

[BecomingSmaller]

To quote the document "Front Squat/RDL-You have to swap both for a Deadlift and a leg curl. This isn’t an either or kind of substitution."

Which is what I do as the standard deadlift is badass imo.

[ChongoHombre]

I've been doing fierce 5 novice for 7 weeks, minus this last week because of a job change. I haven't worked out much since the military, over 25 years ago. At first I felt like you, that I wasn't getting much of a workout, not very sore, etc. I started with the weights light but now am struggling to finish the last set of bench press, squat, overhead press, etc after increasing the weight. I also didn't think 40 minutes would be long enough to get a good workout in. I was wrong. Increase the weight, and increase it weekly and I think you'll be surprised at how fast the weight goes up. I could barely squat 3x5 of 110# when I started, tonight I did 160#. Pretty much the same with bench. If the next 7 weeks go like the last 7, I'll be over 200# on both excersizes.

I only lift about 45 mins when I go, it's plenty of time to blow my target muscles out. All the guys I know that lift for hours usually BS and talk for half of it

[tommydamic68]

To quote the document "Front Squat/RDL-You have to swap both for a Deadlift and a leg curl. This isn’t an either or kind of substitution."

Which is what I do as the standard deadlift is badass imo.

Ok - I think i get it, replace the RDL AND the front squats for the leg press and DL. so I'm not adding an additional exercise, just a trade off -2 for 2.

[Sweetums6000]

Ok - I think i get it, replace the RDL AND the front squats for the leg press and DL. so I'm not adding an additional exercise, just a trade off -2 for 2.

leg curl