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    Spotter needed for bench plateaus?

    Is it just me or are spotters NEEDED to break bench strength goals? It's just a lot harder and more daunting to push a heavy bar above you than to big a heavy bar of the floor lol. Your thoughts ? Cheers
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    Registered User JoshKarobas's Avatar
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    Bumo
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    Registered User WolfRose7's Avatar
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    Nope. makes no difference.

    You don;t need to push to failure, and in fact its counter productive. So why would a spotter be a requirement
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    I can do this all day Farley1324's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JoshKarobas View Post
    Is it just me or are spotters NEEDED to break bench strength goals? It's just a lot harder and more daunting to push a heavy bar above you than to big a heavy bar of the floor lol. Your thoughts ? Cheers
    Just you.

    I absolutely hated spotters when I used commercial gyms, 99% have an IQ of 40 and cannot comprehend the fact that you don't want an "all you" bro spot, so the rep ends up being a team effort. I very very rarely asked anybody to spot, if I didn't know whether I could get the next rep, I didn't try. Now I lift in a power rack so problem solved.
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    LBD Tyrbolift's Avatar
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    A spotter can make it safer to really challenge yourself, so I recommend using one occasionally.
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    Just you.

    I absolutely hated spotters when I used commercial gyms, 99% have an IQ of 40 and cannot comprehend the fact that you don't want an "all you" bro spot, so the rep ends up being a team effort. I very very rarely asked anybody to spot, if I didn't know whether I could get the next rep, I didn't try. Now I lift in a power rack so problem solved.
    Yep
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    Unregistered User MyEgoProblem's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    Just you.

    I absolutely hated spotters when I used commercial gyms, 99% have an IQ of 40 and cannot comprehend the fact that you don't want an "all you" bro spot, so the rep ends up being a team effort. I very very rarely asked anybody to spot, if I didn't know whether I could get the next rep, I didn't try. Now I lift in a power rack so problem solved.
    Totally.. I don't trust any rando to lift off for me let alone spot me and not touch the bar. Even tho a 'max' for me is rpe9.

    Plus No spotter can catch a dropped bar of any decent weight in time to stop it decapitating you ECT lol. . Obviously some may if you use quality side Spotters too but not gonna happen in a commercial gym.

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  8. #8
    Registered User JoshKarobas's Avatar
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    The problem is I can dl 400, squat 300 but I bench 130 and I can't find any way to increase it, and as you can imagine my chest is undeveloped
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  9. #9
    Registered User JoshKarobas's Avatar
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    Anyone got any ideas ?
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    pheasant plucker Sweetums6000's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JoshKarobas View Post
    Anyone got any ideas ?
    What program are you doing?
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    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    Depends why you are plateauing. If it's because you need to build more muscle into the movement then doing low rep low volume to-failure training is probably counterproductive.
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  12. #12
    Registered User JoshKarobas's Avatar
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    I'm doing a PPL routine, and I'm getting crazy gains everywhere else, eat a lot, and no gain in chest
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    pheasant plucker Sweetums6000's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JoshKarobas View Post
    I'm doing a PPL routine, and I'm getting crazy gains everywhere else, eat a lot, and no gain in chest
    What ppl? Is there a progression scheme and a protocol for how to deal with a stalled lift?
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  14. #14
    Registered User JoshKarobas's Avatar
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    Push pull legs
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    I can do this all day Farley1324's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MyEgoProblem View Post
    Totally.. I don't trust any rando to lift off for me let alone spot me and not touch the bar. Even tho a 'max' for me is rpe9.

    Plus No spotter can catch a dropped bar of any decent weight in time to stop it decapitating you ECT lol. . Obviously some may if you use quality side Spotters too but not gonna happen in a commercial gym.

    Steel Safeties give me 1000% more confidence for any work..you never know if fate is gonna **** you.
    Exactly

    Originally Posted by JoshKarobas View Post
    The problem is I can dl 400, squat 300 but I bench 130 and I can't find any way to increase it, and as you can imagine my chest is undeveloped
    If you are a healthy adult male, even age 47 (and you squat/pull 300/400), only benching 130 lbs is not a matter of having a spotter, it's a matter of following a half reasonable program and eating a little food maybe.

    Originally Posted by JoshKarobas View Post
    Push pull legs
    That isn't a routine, it's a bodypart split that represents about 1% of what makes up a routine
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    Originally Posted by JoshKarobas View Post
    Push pull legs
    I guess I should have said, "which ppl?"

    Anyway I was more interested in what kind of progression you were doing.
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  17. #17
    Registered User JoshKarobas's Avatar
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    Sorry my profile is messed up I'm actually 18, and what would complete my routine to make it a routine lol?
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  18. #18
    I can do this all day Farley1324's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JoshKarobas View Post
    Sorry my profile is messed up I'm actually 18, and what would complete my routine to make it a routine lol?
    So, on leg day, do you just 5 sets of 100 reps of leg curls with 10 seconds rest between sets and nothing else? And add 5 ounces per week?
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    pheasant plucker Sweetums6000's Avatar
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    I've noticed a lot of people's ages listed as 47 who aren't 47. So any time I see someone's age as 47, I assume they aren't really 47. Some kind of bug I guess.
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    Originally Posted by Sweetums6000 View Post
    I've noticed a lot of people's ages listed as 47 who aren't 47. So any time I see someone's age as 47, I assume they aren't really 47. Some kind of bug I guess.
    Yep, I think it's just like some default. The base date on most computers is 1 Jan 1970
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    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    Nope. makes no difference.

    You don;t need to push to failure, and in fact its counter productive. So why would a spotter be a requirement
    Training to failure is not counter productive. Training to failure without understanding how failure training can be used in a well designed routine is counter productive. But that's the same with any type of training.

    Used in the right context it's a useful technique and I've incorporated it to good effect in my training. Is it needed to break plateaus? Not all the time, but it's not something that should be dismissed.
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  22. #22
    Registered User WolfRose7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TailEnd View Post
    Training to failure is not counter productive. Training to failure without understanding how failure training can be used in a well designed routine is counter productive. But that's the same with any type of training.

    Used in the right context it's a useful technique and I've incorporated it to good effect in my training. Is it needed to break plateaus? Not all the time, but it's not something that should be dismissed.
    Presuming we are talking about the kind of failure that means you get physically pinned under the bar.
    I fail to see the benefit of that 1 extra rep vs fatigue, and injury risk from it.

    And when someone like Ed Coan can put up a 2400 total without ever having missed a lift in the gym.. Is it really needed?.

    Now this is my opinion atm, you have a much longer training age so I do value your argument.
    How do you utilize it in your training if I may ask?
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    Unregistered User MyEgoProblem's Avatar
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    Upload a form video... It probably needs a LOT of work.

    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post

    And when someone like Ed Coan can put up a 2400 total without ever having missed a lift in the gym.. Is it really needed?.
    Just gonna highlight this...

    If you want to be strong, dont ingrain bad motor patterns of 'failure'... Get in, hit everything clean af.. Accumulation of good solid work.
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    WOATbrah of peace :) sooby's Avatar
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    no. in fact the few random spotters I did use hindered and stole my gains from me by "helping" me row the bar when I could have clearly gotten the reps.

    You don't need to go to failure to get stronger, sure it can be a useful tool.

    also post your entire routine.
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  25. #25
    Registered User TailEnd's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    Presuming we are talking about the kind of failure that means you get physically pinned under the bar.
    I fail to see the benefit of that 1 extra rep vs fatigue, and injury risk from it.

    And when someone like Ed Coan can put up a 2400 total without ever having missed a lift in the gym.. Is it really needed?.

    Now this is my opinion atm, you have a much longer training age so I do value your argument.
    How do you utilize it in your training if I may ask?
    People have different methods - Ed Coan may not react well to failure training but someone like Dorian Yates incorporated failure (and beyond failure) training throughout his career.

    When you hit failure there's 2 things that could happen:

    1. The mechanics of your musculoskeletal system can no longer take the load and you actually reach "mechanical failure"

    2. Your nervous system perceives that you have reached failure and gives up, but it doesn't necessarily mean your musculoskeletal system reached failure

    For me personally, I believe number 2 is more often than not the cause in my training. To break through plateaus I sometimes take sets beyond failure by getting a spotter to force through an extra rep when I can no longer support the load myself. This is with the view that over time my CNS becomes accustomed to the new load.

    It works for me. It may not work for everyone but when progress is pretty slow for me these days I have to find different methods that do work and stick with them. This being one of them.
    Current lifts (23/02/2017) 1RM @ 175lbs (5'8")

    S: 484
    B: 352
    D: 572
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  26. #26
    I can do this all day Farley1324's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TailEnd View Post
    People have different methods - Ed Coan may not react well to failure training but someone like Dorian Yates incorporated failure (and beyond failure) training throughout his career.

    When you hit failure there's 2 things that could happen:

    1. The mechanics of your musculoskeletal system can no longer take the load and you actually reach "mechanical failure"

    2. Your nervous system perceives that you have reached failure and gives up, but it doesn't necessarily mean your musculoskeletal system reached failure

    For me personally, I believe number 2 is more often than not the cause in my training. To break through plateaus I sometimes take sets beyond failure by getting a spotter to force through an extra rep when I can no longer support the load myself. This is with the view that over time my CNS becomes accustomed to the new load.

    It works for me. It may not work for everyone but when progress is pretty slow for me these days I have to find different methods that do work and stick with them. This being one of them.
    There are also some significant differences between most of us here, and guys like Yates, in both genetics and that which we cannot discuss. Always be careful taking training from...those guys and applying it to us

    I'm not sure I follow your logic, with somebody helping you through the rep as a tandem lift, your CNS isn't handling the load, it is handling whatever % the spotter is not, and you don't even know what that is
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  27. #27
    Registered User JoshKarobas's Avatar
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    I assume you mean my chest routine, if so here it is

    BB Flat Bench 10x8 reps/sets
    DB INcline 8x8
    Cable flys 10x10
    Dips 10x5

    A lot of volume I know but I eat 5k cals and I'm aiming for a gvt approach. I can't do body weight dips, as my chest is just too frikkin weak, so don't mention weighted dips
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  28. #28
    Registered User TailEnd's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Farley1324 View Post
    There are also some significant differences between most of us here, and guys like Yates, in both genetics and that which we cannot discuss. Always be careful taking training from...those guys and applying it to us

    I'm not sure I follow your logic, with somebody helping you through the rep as a tandem lift, your CNS isn't handling the load, it is handling whatever % the spotter is not, and you don't even know what that is
    Absolutely - it was an only example. I'm not saying I incorporate it because Dorian Yates does, I'm saying it works for me.

    Exactly - that % is an unknown quantity but it doesn't matter what that % is as long as progression is maintained over time (I.e the rep is eventually completed unassisted). The percentage represents an increase on not attempting the rep and has not subjected me to any additional injury problems etc. so it's simply something that works for me.
    Current lifts (23/02/2017) 1RM @ 175lbs (5'8")

    S: 484
    B: 352
    D: 572
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  29. #29
    Banned vascularphreak's Avatar
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    I only use spotters for max attempts.
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  30. #30
    pheasant plucker Sweetums6000's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JoshKarobas View Post
    I assume you mean my chest routine, if so here it is

    BB Flat Bench 10x8 reps/sets
    DB INcline 8x8
    Cable flys 10x10
    Dips 10x5

    A lot of volume I know but I eat 5k cals and I'm aiming for a gvt approach. I can't do body weight dips, as my chest is just too frikkin weak, so don't mention weighted dips
    Holy crap. That's not a lot of volume. That's a f*ckton of volume. And that's not even your entire push day, I'm assuming. No wonder you're stuck.

    You mentioned a 300/400 pound squat/dead. Are you doing something similar in that department? I'm guessing not.
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