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  1. #1
    anonymous
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    Question Input on chest routine??

    Hi everybody. I was looking for feedback on my current chest routine. Am I doing too many sets and/or overtraining? I have a shoulder issue so I need to use ISO machine for presses, but....

    3 x 8 wide bench press
    3 x 10 Incline press
    3 x 12 db flies
    3 x 12 db incline flies
    3 x 12 db decline flies
    3 x 12 db pullovers

    Thanks for any input.
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  2. #2
    the black out chacha15's Avatar
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    you can switch out the decline flies and try some dips to mix it up.

    Wondering if 3 sets feel like enough on the presses.
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  3. #3
    Registered User 17mahmoods's Avatar
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    Post your full routine if you want proper feedback.
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  4. #4
    anonymous
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    Chacha
    As you were the only person polite enough to reply, I say thank you for your input.
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  5. #5
    Registered User leidenesLK's Avatar
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    Too many unnecessary movements, bud. A 'chest routine' should only ever need a flat or decline press, an Incline Press and a Fly type movement. Those 3 movements are plenty for good chest development. You have 3 Fly movements. Waste of time and energy. Even so, there's no use in posting just one days workout. We need to see your total pushing and pulling volume so you can balance them accordingly.

    In short, there's too many redundant movements and depending on your pulling volume, it may or may not exacerbate your Shoulder problems.

    Hope this helps and good luck
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  6. #6
    the black out chacha15's Avatar
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    He said he has shoulder issues. probably should lay off the incline press and do decline press since it is better on the shoulders.
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  7. #7
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    Originally Posted by chacha15 View Post
    He said he has shoulder issues. probably should lay off the incline press and do decline press since it is better on the shoulders.
    I agree. I have the same issues. Decline is the only movement that doesn't hurt my shoulders other than dips or pec dec.

    Also, I echo the others in saying that no one can really rate several exercises without knowing the rest of the scheme.
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  8. #8
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    Originally Posted by joes_dad View Post
    Chacha
    As you were the only person polite enough to reply, I say thank you for your input.
    How is asking for your full-routine not polite?
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  9. #9
    anonymous
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    Ok... maybe you guys are right... Well, basically I have several issues including neck, left shoulder, back and hips. I'm a mess so I've been told to lay off the 5 X 5 stuff and the heavy squats/deadlifts, etc. Recently, I've switched to a more hypertrophic based program. Since I don't have a lot of time, I've made 3 workouts each week which consist of (I may have tweaked it a bit in the last two weeks).

    ISO wide press 3x10
    ISO incline press 3x10
    db fly 3x12
    incline fly 3x12
    decline fly 3x12
    db pullovers 3x12
    lying triceps extension 3x10
    tricep rope pushdown 3x12
    reverse grip tricep pushdown - drop set
    then... I shove biceps in there, too... so I can stay at 3 days. incline db curls 3x12
    concentration db curls 3x12
    drop set
    straight arm lat pullover 3x12
    seated cable rows 3x12
    rack pull 3x6
    bb shrugs 3x8
    good mornings 3 x10
    seated shoulder db press 3x12
    db lateral raises 3x12
    rear flies (pec dec) 3x12 OR face pulls 3x12

    bb squats 3x8
    leg press 3x12
    seated leg extension 3x12
    SLDs 3x8
    seated leg curls 3x12
    standing calf raise 4x15

    I'm sure there's plenty wrong with it, but I've never been a hypertrophy guy until now... with that being said, what do you think? I do understand what is meant by redundancy.... so I think I will shift to decline bench instead of decline flies. Yes... true... decline doesn't hurt my shoulder (maybe just a tiny bit, but nothing like flat bench).







    Originally Posted by leidenesLK View Post
    Too many unnecessary movements, bud. A 'chest routine' should only ever need a flat or decline press, an Incline Press and a Fly type movement. Those 3 movements are plenty for good chest development. You have 3 Fly movements. Waste of time and energy. Even so, there's no use in posting just one days workout. We need to see your total pushing and pulling volume so you can balance them accordingly.

    In short, there's too many redundant movements and depending on your pulling volume, it may or may not exacerbate your Shoulder problems.

    Hope this helps and good luck
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  10. #10
    anonymous
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    [QUOTE=17mahmoods;1505207761]How is asking for your full

    My apologies.. I see what you mean.
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  11. #11
    Registered User xtatdsm's Avatar
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    If you have shoulder issues stay away from "Wide bench press" instead go with mid to narrow grip and keep your elbows closer to your body. Also DB flies are not very shoulder friendly. Finally, the volume is just way too much and I am not going to even comment on the push to pull ratio.
    Any ways, I too happen to be in my 40s and have managed to screw my shoulder so now I only do neutral DB Bench presses for chest and happened to follow the vikings U/L routine for the past 3 months or so and I like it, maybe you should look into that.
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  12. #12
    anonymous
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    Originally Posted by xtatdsm View Post
    If you have shoulder issues stay away from "Wide bench press" instead go with mid to narrow grip and keep your elbows closer to your body. Also DB flies are not very shoulder friendly. Finally, the volume is just way too much and I am not going to even comment on the push to pull ratio.
    Any ways, I too happen to be in my 40s and have managed to screw my shoulder so now I only do neutral DB Bench presses for chest and happened to follow the vikings U/L routine for the past 3 months or so and I like it, maybe you should look into that.

    I forgot to mention that I also do Lat Pulldowns 3x12. I don't know if that changes anything for you, but please explain what's wrong with the push to pull ratio.
    If I do two bench presses, shoulder press, etc.. and then lat pulldowns, seated cable rows for pulls, etc... I don't know if you count any others under this category....
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  13. #13
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    Your routine is a mess, no offence. Find a proven, structured routine to follow. It's not surprising at all you have shoulder issues with such a terrible push-to-pull ratio.
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  14. #14
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    Originally Posted by joes_dad View Post
    Ok... maybe you guys are right... Well, basically I have several issues including neck, left shoulder, back and hips.

    Lets start with what are these? Go into detail of what they are and what you have been doing to correct them.
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  15. #15
    anonymous
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    Originally Posted by banjoman23 View Post
    Your routine is a mess, no offence. Find a proven, structured routine to follow. It's not surprising at all you have shoulder issues with such a terrible push-to-pull ratio.
    Well... my shoulder was injured about 25 years ago, so this routine has NOTHING to do with the shoulder injury. I was going with a strength based program in the past. After a few years off and on and then some more time off, I'm trying a new approach geared towards lighter weights and hypertrophy. Obviously, I've posted here on occasion to ask questions. All I'm looking for is a constructive answer. Why is the routine such a terrible push pull ratio? That answer would be appreciated.
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  16. #16
    anonymous
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    Originally Posted by JohnMariettePT View Post
    Lets start with what are these? Go into detail of what they are and what you have been doing to correct them.
    I don't think the injuries have anything to do with whether or not my routine is enough or too much or has a bad push to pull ratio. Without asking my chiropractor for the medical terminology, my neck was injured 25 years ago in a car accident and it's gotten worse over the years. My shoulder has been screwed up since about the same time. The condition with my neck has gradually caused problems in the upper portion of my spine - lots of compression and such. I don't know when my hip went bad, but the right side has an obvious differential from the left and is "twisted" to an appreciable extent which has pressured my lower back to where its messed up, too.
    Pretty much, it's rough that I even still lift weights through all of the pain and discomfort. I don't think many others would be... so I'm just trying to ask a question and just would appreciate a constructive answer.
    Is that routine too much? or not enough? And since several people brought it up.... what's wrong with the push to pull ratio? An actual specific answer would be appreciated.
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  17. #17
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    If you're waiting for someone to come on here and tell you how great your routine is then you'll be waiting for a while. As people have already pointed out, it's a mess; no progression protocol, no deloads, too much unnecessary fluff, poor exercise selection, unbalanced, the list goes on... I doubt very much that you're going to get many different replies.

    If you want to do it then just do it but don't post something which is no more than a jumbled list of exercises and expect people to give it the thumbs up. As a final comment, if your body really is as f*cked up as you say it is, i would be speaking to a physio and/or a doctor before i'd even consider doing this, or any, routine.
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  18. #18
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    Chest to back ratio is INCREDIBLY "off".
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  19. #19
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    You can do more than 3 sets you know and vary your reps.
    - Your mindset influences your outcome. It's time to take out phrases like "I can't" or "I don't have time" and replace them with phrases like "I will make the time" and "I will keep working at it until I find a way that works." Success starts with the right mindset and believing in yourself and your dreams.
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  20. #20
    anonymous
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    Originally Posted by Stern84 View Post
    If you're waiting for someone to come on here and tell you how great your routine is then you'll be waiting for a while. As people have already pointed out, it's a mess; no progression protocol, no deloads, too much unnecessary fluff, poor exercise selection, unbalanced, the list goes on... I doubt very much that you're going to get many different replies.

    If you want to do it then just do it but don't post something which is no more than a jumbled list of exercises and expect people to give it the thumbs up. As a final comment, if your body really is as f*cked up as you say it is, i would be speaking to a physio and/or a doctor before i'd even consider doing this, or any, routine.
    What are you talking about? Did I ask anybody to tell me how great anything is? I simply asked for input... I figured I had holes in my program. That's why I asked for input, but all I get from most of you is simply how screwed up my plan is... and you don't offer any solutions. I don't know what the problem is on this site with asking a question... but you jerks are a waste of my time. Go back to looking in the mirror to see how great you think you are. I'll ask some people who actually know what they're talking about and think before they speak.
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  21. #21
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    Originally Posted by joes_dad View Post
    I don't think the injuries have anything to do with whether or not my routine is enough or too much or has a bad push to pull ratio. Without asking my chiropractor for the medical terminology, my neck was injured 25 years ago in a car accident and it's gotten worse over the years. My shoulder has been screwed up since about the same time. The condition with my neck has gradually caused problems in the upper portion of my spine - lots of compression and such. I don't know when my hip went bad, but the right side has an obvious differential from the left and is "twisted" to an appreciable extent which has pressured my lower back to where its messed up, too.
    Pretty much, it's rough that I even still lift weights through all of the pain and discomfort. I don't think many others would be... so I'm just trying to ask a question and just would appreciate a constructive answer.
    Is that routine too much? or not enough? And since several people brought it up.... what's wrong with the push to pull ratio? An actual specific answer would be appreciated.
    It just looks like a lot of unnecessary volume and random.


    I ask because i worry as a compassionate human who worries about your long term health. As a human i think of longevity in life, not just in lifting. Is there anything you can do to correct or lessen these problems? But if you are set on your routine go for it but I dont think anyone here would try to give much advice without knowing you/your injuries and history or without a doctors advice.
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  22. #22
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    Originally Posted by joes_dad View Post
    What are you talking about? Did I ask anybody to tell me how great anything is? I simply asked for input... I figured I had holes in my program. That's why I asked for input, but all I get from most of you is simply how screwed up my plan is... and you don't offer any solutions. I don't know what the problem is on this site with asking a question... but you jerks are a waste of my time. Go back to looking in the mirror to see how great you think you are. I'll ask some people who actually know what they're talking about and think before they speak.
    You haven't posted a program, you've posted a list of exercises and rep ranges. There is a hell of a lot more to designing a program than that which is why 99.9% of the people on here won't even attempt it and will instead follow a properly designed, well structured and balanced program which has been put together by someone who has often decades of knowledge and experience.

    I'm sure everybody will be happy to throw in their opinions on how you can tweak your "program". The thing is, by the time we've all pitched in, you'll likely end up with something which is even more of a mess than when you started, which still isn't going to be as effective as one of the properly designed programs on here and which will probably exacerbate your injuries.

    My advice, ditch your "program", pick a properly designed one from here an consult a professional about any tweaks which may be required to cater for your injuries.

    Right, back to the mirror.
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  23. #23
    anonymous
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    Originally Posted by JohnMariettePT View Post
    It just looks like a lot of unnecessary volume and random.


    I ask because i worry as a compassionate human who worries about your long term health. As a human i think of longevity in life, not just in lifting. Is there anything you can do to correct or lessen these problems? But if you are set on your routine go for it but I dont think anyone here would try to give much advice without knowing you/your injuries and history or without a doctors advice.
    Ahhh... ok. I can understand why you say that. I was always low volume and high intensity. These days because of all the messed up body parts, I am trying a different approach which is why I asked that question. I wanted to try higher volume and more geared towards hypertrophy. I have heard quite a few people in the gym and in articles talk about high volume. So, I thought I'd give it a try.
    I will always have some discomfort, so I have to live with it and not whine. I can't do regular deadlifts anymore. My shoulder limits flat or incline bb bench press. My shoulder also kills any serious military press for the shoulders. Db's seem to be ok (Mostly) because each shoulder can operate independently. Squats are difficult, but manageable if I'm not going too intense. **** like that.....

    Anyway, why do you think my routine is too random? I'm trying to hit each muscle with different exercises.
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  24. #24
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    Try this:
    Decline DB bench press and standing barbell overhead press (or floor press, CGBP, or DB shoulder press, whichever you can do), both done twice a week. Also add in bodyweight dips, but add weight when you start doing 15+ reps. Go for 3x10.

    BUT you must do a set of pulling in between each set of pressing. Chin ups, DB rows, cable rows, facepulls.

    And that's it. Don't add in any other ****.
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  25. #25
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    Use DBs for incline and flat bench. Should be easier on your rotator cuff. I agree with only needing 1x fly movement. Pick one, rotate them. Dips would be good, too.
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  26. #26
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    Originally Posted by RollTideNation View Post
    Try this:
    Decline DB bench press and standing barbell overhead press (or floor press, CGBP, or DB shoulder press, whichever you can do), both done twice a week. Also add in bodyweight dips, but add weight when you start doing 15+ reps. Go for 3x10.

    BUT you must do a set of pulling in between each set of pressing. Chin ups, DB rows, cable rows, facepulls.

    And that's it. Don't add in any other ****.
    Hi and thanks for the input. So, you mean that I should (for example) do a bench (press) followed by lat (pull)downs? I just assumed that you should do all chest (for example) one day and then your back on another day. Damn... I guess I don't know a heck of a lot.
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  27. #27
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    Originally Posted by joes_dad View Post
    Hi and thanks for the input. So, you mean that I should (for example) do a bench (press) followed by lat (pull)downs? I just assumed that you should do all chest (for example) one day and then your back on another day. Damn... I guess I don't know a heck of a lot.
    Some will tell you full body 3x a week, some say push pull legs, some say bro split... at the end of the day, it's up to you. Science has proven higher frequency to be optimal rather than higher volume but who cares. Do what you believe in. The main point for you is that you need to balance out your pressing/pulling. You can do the pulling whenever you want as long as you're doing it. 1 set of pressing = 1-2 sets of pulling.

    Pulling: any variation of rows, chins, lat pulldowns, facepulls, shrugs, rear delt raises, band pull aparts.

    If you get confused, do rows and facepulls.
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  28. #28
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    Originally Posted by chacha15 View Post
    you can switch out the decline flies and try some dips to mix it up.

    Wondering if 3 sets feel like enough on the presses.
    This ^ and I personally from a bodybuilding point of view like one being big volume. If bodybuilding is the goal, most get a great look from more upper chest work. I would do a
    5x10 on Incline bench (60 percent)
    3 x 8 Bench Flat (50 percent)
    3 Sets of wide Dips (Full ROM) (AMAP)
    3 Sets Incline Flys

    (Move the Pull overs to back)
    “No man has the right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training. It is a shame for a man to grow old without seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable.” Socrates

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  29. #29
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    Originally Posted by xtatdsm View Post
    If you have shoulder issues stay away from "Wide bench press" instead go with mid to narrow grip and keep your elbows closer to your body. Also DB flies are not very shoulder friendly. Finally, the volume is just way too much and I am not going to even comment on the push to pull ratio.
    Any ways, I too happen to be in my 40s and have managed to screw my shoulder so now I only do neutral DB Bench presses for chest and happened to follow the vikings U/L routine for the past 3 months or so and I like it, maybe you should look into that.
    I honestly believe it isn't really a wide vs narrow more than shoulder placement. I personally suggest finding a solid coach that teaches you to pin the shoulders back and bench off the lats. Tucking the lats into the pocket like a lat pull down and pulling the weight into you. I have been working on this myself instagram @zacherymassey
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  30. #30
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    Originally Posted by Beachmuscles13 View Post
    I honestly believe it isn't really a wide vs narrow more than shoulder placement. I personally suggest finding a solid coach that teaches you to pin the shoulders back and bench off the lats. Tucking the lats into the pocket like a lat pull down and pulling the weight into you. I have been working on this myself instagram @zacherymassey
    I'm actually very curious about this as well. Everyone is different, but everyone says close grip is easier on shoulders. BUT, occasionally I get shoulder pain the day after doing close grip. And I ALWAYS get shoulder pain the day after doing any form of push ups. Never noticed pain from standard grip unless some other variable was in the mix- skipped warmup/mobility work, etc.
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