New Titan Fitness

[Cleveland33]

I agree, it's like Walmart coming into town and running the small family owned stores into the ground.

It's not just that, I don't mind that - if you can be big and leverage that, great. But to blatantly rip off unique designs of a small shop.

[tmonkey]

Looks like Titan is copying Edge now...

https://www.titan.fitness/sbext.html

i think if they get a email someone wants something..

Haha, I wish! For now, this is all I have...

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/9k8lvTR.jpg[/IM]

boxes look like they are in pretty good shape at least

That's a dick move right there.

Copy the bigger guys, fine I get that. But to cop a small shop like that...I hope they push finished good tariffs and put Titan pricing right in line with Rogue

love Rick but I value a free market more

[Cleveland33]

don't get me wrong, I love a free market as well.

If Titan was a Chinese company flooding the market it would be a different story.

[MGM711]

You gotta remember, you are likely not their core demographic. The release of the RH was telling when people were complaining that they still couldn’t afford it – these are guys that have never used an RH before and probably aren’t even experiencing back issue, but they read how great it is and so they want one but can’t justify the cost – well as we know here, guys that would benefit the most from an RH can justify the cost of the Rogue quite easily. That’s their real market – and since most of these guys don’t know a good RH from a bad one, as long as it is pretty stable it’s good in their eyes.

You know, that's a really interesting point you bring up relative to Titan's "target market." I always figured their target was essentially the same as say Rogue's which is the CF Box and Garage market, but you bring up an interesting point that maybe their target market may actually below that and they're just going after the group that wants "cheap" regardless of quality. That would explain some of the horrid quality being rushed to market and the outrageously low price points. One thing I've noticed buying and selling on CL is that while there's a strong market for high quality equipment, by far and away, there's a much larger group who is simply seeking the cheapest equipment possible even though I can't understand why. Some of the junkiest pieces of equipment I've sold went the fastest and I thought it was likely going to be next to impossible to sell. This could be the same group that is drawn to Titan and who Titan may be targeting.

[MGM711]

Does Edge have a patent filed for it?

I also think that this probably won't hurt Edge's sales much, since those who will buy it from Titan were probably not likely to buy from Edge at $700 + shipping anyway.

I honestly don't understand why Titan even bothered cloning this since it was such a niche piece to begin with, and on top of that, the price savings isn't much and not really in line with how they price cut other pieces they've been releasing. The small group of people who would be interested in such a piece would probably prefer to pay the extra $250 for the heavier duty, better built product.

[C123C]

Looks like Titan just came out with a belt squat: https://www.titan.fitness/bltsqt1-bltsqt2.html

Big footprint but < 1/3rd Rogue's price. I have to admit I'm tempted by both units, this one on sheer price. That said I already have a loading pin so a belt and a set of rack platforms (I already have handles too) and I can get a lot of the way there without much money and without much space as it would be all on the rack.

[Cleveland33]

I honestly don't understand why Titan even bothered cloning this since it was such a niche piece to begin with, and on top of that, the price savings isn't much and not really in line with how they price cut other pieces they've been releasing. The small group of people who would be interested in such a piece would probably prefer to pay the extra $250 for the heavier duty, better built product.

Here's the other thing - most people shopping Titan probably don't even know Rick exists. So they will never had seen it and someone might just buy it cause...they can and these guys think they need everything.

[rpark]

Here's the other thing - most people shopping Titan probably don't even know Rick exists. So they will never had seen it and someone might just buy it cause...they can and these guys think they need everything.

Guys like Rick @ Edge and Strength Equip Inc in Idaho exist all over the place. They have very low overhead and can produce quality custom products if you ask.

Titan is literally searching Alibaba web offers for fitness products being cloned in China.... They have no business model, no R&D, no support..... just some dude scouring Alibaba dealers looking for 'cool cloned products'.

[MGM711]

Titan is literally searching Alibaba web offers for fitness products being cloned in China.... They have no business model, no R&D, no support..... just some dude scouring Alibaba dealers looking for 'cool cloned products'.

I disagree...I do think there's someone who's "searching" for things to clone that isn't necessarily Alibaba although I do agree they do probably a lot of that once they've established what they want to release next. The "searcher" is someone who's somewhat in the know although not totally in the know, but has a pulse of what is desired right now. You can tell they are not totally in the know based on how poor some of these designs have come out when they are released.

[urbanlifter]

Personally, I think Titan is just really good at listening to what their customers want. Sadly, they are probably better at that than actually producing equipment. But when something is hot on the market they come out with a ghd, reverse hyper, pair of Jammer arms, and now the latest being the belt squat. I also think they pay close attention to these garage gym websites that do reviews, one of which did a rave review on The Edge Fitness standing hyper.

[lsi1]

Personally, I think Titan is just really good at listening to what their customers want. Sadly, they are probably better at that than actually producing equipment. But when something is hot on the market they come out with a ghd, reverse hyper, pair of Jammer arms, and now the latest being the belt squat. I also think they pay close attention to these garage gym websites that do reviews, one of which did a rave review on The Edge Fitness standing hyper.

Urban I think your completely right here. I think We as customers drive this cycle by asking for things and instead of paying for good engineers and fabricators to build something they just clone whatever they can the cheapest way possible.

[murphyreedus]

and someone might just buy it cause...they can and these guys think they need everything.

[MGM711]

I also think they pay close attention to these garage gym websites that do reviews, one of which did a rave review on The Edge Fitness standing hyper.

I agree, Titan is certainly plugged into the garage review community, and that specific review, which wasn't done by Coop, felt more like a self-validation of spending the money on that piece than anything else. Still a very curious piece to want to decide to clone and sell.

[Cleveland33]

I agree, Titan is certainly plugged into the garage review community, and that specific review, which wasn't done by Coop, felt more like a self-validation of spending the money on that piece than anything else. Still a very curious piece to want to decide to clone and sell.

I am quite leery of that site overall of late. The fact that Coop opened (is opening) a gym is very odd as are a lot of his reviews.

[urbanlifter]

Packaged well, supporting tubes on the edges and plywood protecting both sides on each box (everything bubble wrapped nicely). First impression is that the powder coating looks nice, after further inspection there are some splatters and rough spots but that was to be expected. Biggest surprise so far is the platform, DAMN that thing is heavy. Probably half the weight of the entire machine LOL. The logo is not painted on, it's two pieces of metal riveted to the fully welded frame (no assembly required). Mixed emotions about that, if you look closely at the picture it looks like they cut it out with a grinder or something. RAZER sharp edges, and the top itself is NOT going to be barefoot friendly. The center arm had a noticeable quality control issue, otherwise the welds looked acceptable from what I can tell so far. Misc comments: J-hooks looked child sized and there are two adjustment heights, connection point where the arm swings has a tube for the bolt, and the loadable sleeves are just as long as my Texas Squat bar. Break for dinner, assembly and test shortly!







Don;t run your finger over that bad boy!!!



Tape measure must have been broke...



Not a bearing, but better than just holes?



These can hold 1000lbs? We will see

[urbanlifter]

Center arm brackets looked a little chunky, seems like fairly thick metal though.

[MGM711]

Urban I think your completely right here. I think We as customers drive this cycle by asking for things and instead of paying for good engineers and fabricators to build something they just clone whatever they can the cheapest way possible.

There's two different things at play here...there's the actual cost to produce the equipment and there's the actual time involved with the engineering the equipment design. When Tom Eilerman or Tyler Hobson sit down to engineer a piece, their intellectual property is worth something more than just the actual cost of production of whatever piece it is. That's why in a weird way, all this cloning is ultimately bad because the guys who are the geniuses in engineering equipment see no reason to continue pushing the envelope in design if their creations are going to be cloned right after they come up with a new design. That said, some are charging ridiculous amounts for designs that are not that unique like Wenning's BS. While he may say it took 6 years perfecting the design of the BS he released, he also isn't a trained engineer by trade like some of these other guys, so for him to charge the same amount for some of these pieces is absurd and why the cloning starts happening and why in some way I'm also for the cloning to drive the prices back down to normal. But ultimately, the cloning for the equipment business long term is going to be bad because no designers are going to want to put a design out there moving forward.

[rpark]

There's two different things at play here...there's the actual cost to produce the equipment and there's the actual time involved with the engineering the equipment design.

That's why I'm a bit surprised to see you being a little sympathetic to Titan.... knowing you've known some good designers.... they basically get squeezed out of the market due to the fast cloning of machines.... There's little incentive to design when there is no respect for intellectual property by those people overseas. Hate on Rogue, if you will, but they at least paid a price to obtain Eilerman's designs and some services.

[MGM711]

I am quite leery of that site overall of late. The fact that Coop opened (is opening) a gym is very odd as are a lot of his reviews.

Yep, same here...I've heard from someone that he is getting "benefits" from various companies but wouldn't say who even though I've been told that they've never actually asked for anything in a review, but that could be speculation, I'm not so sure how this person would totally know even though it doesn't surprise me in the least. I'll just say that I've corresponded with him on a few times regarding some of his reviews, and I think he believes he's being impartial on his reviews even though there seems to be a little conflict with how he goes about things. I'll just say I've confronted him on a few things and he deferred to me and my experience as being far greater than his even though he never went back and changed anything on his reviews. On top of that, he doubled down and even had a chance to mention what we talked about in a separate post and never made mention, so that had me suspicious as well.

[Jason2459]

I'm skeptical of any "professional" reviewer. Like trusting Amazon reviews.

[MGM711]

That's why I'm a bit surprised to see you being a little sympathetic to Titan.... knowing you've known some good designers.... they basically get squeezed out of the market due to the fast cloning of machines.... There's little incentive to design when there is no respect for intellectual property by those people overseas. Hate on Rogue, if you will, but they at least paid a price to obtain Eilerman's designs and some services.

I would say 15 years ago, when the pricing of steel went through the roof, the price for gym equipment had gotten absurd. When the cost of steel dropped and shipping prices started dropping as well, the price of gym equipment never readjusted. A 3x3, 7 gauge rack with plate storage went from $1500 to well over $3000 in a blink of an eye. And that was right around the time when Sorinex began changing the rack designs to a more modular system which did adjust the cost downward but it didn't totally fix things. Rogue basically drove the prices down which desperately needed to happen at that time, and the result now is much better product at much cheaper prices.

All that said, while I'm still for a component of cloning and making things more affordable, especially to the small box or garage consumer, I think the cloning has totally gotten out of hand. There's almost no incentive for anyone or company to go out and design cool equipment anymore, and that's going to set back this equipment business for years.

I'm not sympathetic to Titan per se, I just can't stand how all the Rogue fanbois get on their soapbox and complain when Rogue was the original cloning company! So I think it's great that Titan started cloning Rogue and bringing the prices down even further. Rogue is still a cloning company even though they've started doing more of their own designs now that there isn't anything left to clone!

But don't let me confuse things, I am and will always be, pro design and innovation, I'm just not for gouging, and unfortunately, there hasn't been a lot of "innovation" and too much gouging, and when there's gouging, I will always be for cloning at that point to recorrect the market.

[jdboyd78]

These can hold 1000lbs? We will see

Not very reassuring, wouldn't want those to fail on you when re racking. Seems like if they just made certain spots a little sturdier on some of their items, it would help a lot. Course that just opens up something else to fail, why I'm not an engineer lol

[MGM711]

Not very reassuring, wouldn't want those to fail on you when re racking. Seems like if they just made certain spots a little sturdier on some of their items, it would help a lot. Course that just opens up something else to fail, why I'm not an engineer lol

See, now that's a perfect example and totally proves my point that they don't have the right people there in their corner...beefing up the J-cup is a relatively small thing cost wise that goes a long way in terms of reassuring the customer that the product actually work exactly as they claim it will. In fact, I'm fairly certain everyone would gladly pay more for that reassurance and beefier quality.

[urbanlifter]

Initial impressions: Our suspicions regarding the center arm and ROM were fairly accurate. HOWEVER, I would say after a few minor adjustments this thing could be legit. First off and most importantly I would say the center arm does need to be extended by at least 3-5", as it sits right now the machine is fairly quad dominant with my toes at the edge. Second, they need to add an additional height adjustment for the j-hook because the starting point is a tad low (easy fix with a step bit). Lastly (for now), the bottom safety stopper could be shortened a few inches to increase ROM (another simple fix). Even though you can unbolt it entirely I wouldn't, because if you fail then the plates would rest on the ground and it would be more difficult to unload them. I had a heavy leg day yesterday so that's all for now, I'll have to put more serious weight on it this weekend to test the stability. So far so good though, I don't see any deal breaking issues this early on in the game. Fully assembled the machine feels pretty solid and I think it looks DAMN good in the gym!

[MGM711]

Initial impressions: Our suspicions regarding the center arm and ROM were fairly accurate. HOWEVER, I would say after a few minor adjustments this thing could be legit. First off and most importantly I would say the center arm does need to be extended by at least 3-5", as it sits right now the machine is fairly quad dominant with my toes at the edge. Second, they need to add an additional height adjustment for the j-hook because the starting point is a tad low (easy fix with a step bit). Lastly (for now), the bottom safety stopper could be shortened a few inches to increase ROM (another simple fix). Even though you can unbolt it entirely I wouldn't, because if you fail then the plates would rest on the ground and it would be more difficult to unload them. I had a heavy leg day yesterday so that's all for now, I'll have to put more serious weight on it this weekend to test the stability. So far so good though, I don't see any deal breaking issues this early on in the game. Fully assembled the machine feels pretty solid and I think it looks DAMN good in the gym!

Thanks for the video post! It appears they over-corrected the issue with Wenning's which appeared to be sitting almost on the back edge of the platform too far back.

[Cleveland33]

Yep, same here...I've heard from someone that he is getting "benefits" from various companies but wouldn't say who even though I've been told that they've never actually asked for anything in a review, but that could be speculation, I'm not so sure how this person would totally know even though it doesn't surprise me in the least. I'll just say that I've corresponded with him on a few times regarding some of his reviews, and I think he believes he's being impartial on his reviews even though there seems to be a little conflict with how he goes about things. I'll just say I've confronted him on a few things and he deferred to me and my experience as being far greater than his even though he never went back and changed anything on his reviews. On top of that, he doubled down and even had a chance to mention what we talked about in a separate post and never made mention, so that had me suspicious as well.

I question how much experience he has at all. He seems overly impressed with cosmetic BS and not impressed with actual quality. Plus... I would ask him if he even lifts

[urbanlifter]

No problem! I'm hesitant to say this, but I almost think once I make a couple adjustments I'll be VERY happy with this piece. Compared to Edge Fitness I don't see a substantial decline in the quality of the materials, with the exception of the center arm the tubing feels about the same thickness/weight. Although I'm starting to wonder if that's why Titan kept the center so short, any longer would it be more prone to bending under heavy load? I might search around for a small extension tube that would fit over the 2"x2", but for now I think I can almost use it as it sits with little complaint. The other thing I might consider doing is cutting a horse stall mat and gluing it to the platform. I'm a fan of lifting barefoot and those razor sharp edges on the logo would open your toes right up! I also just noticed they missed a couple rivets on the platform, might have to get some small screws to tighten that up.

[jamesovercome]

You know, that's a really interesting point you bring up relative to Titan's "target market." I always figured their target was essentially the same as say Rogue's which is the CF Box and Garage market, but you bring up an interesting point that maybe their target market may actually below that and they're just going after the group that wants "cheap" regardless of quality. That would explain some of the horrid quality being rushed to market and the outrageously low price points. One thing I've noticed buying and selling on CL is that while there's a strong market for high quality equipment, by far and away, there's a much larger group who is simply seeking the cheapest equipment possible even though I can't understand why. Some of the junkiest pieces of equipment I've sold went the fastest and I thought it was likely going to be next to impossible to sell. This could be the same group that is drawn to Titan and who Titan may be targeting.

I'd argue about "quality" - Yes, Titan has had some good awful stuff come out but their GHD and RH are completely legit, solid quality and would serve 100% of the home gym community just fine. I would never buy Rogue for these items, not because I'm cheap or don't know "quality".

I think certain people(not saying you) are kinda pissed they spent $1000+ dollars on something others got for $300 or less, but hey theirs say Rogue on it. I'm not saying goto Titan for everything, god no. I'm saying that stuff like the GHD and RH are over priced and Titan can duplicate 90+% of the quality, 100% of the function at 35%- 50% of the cost for these two items.

[murphyreedus]

Plus... I would ask him if he even lifts

He's had a lifting video or two on his Instagram, but yeah, he must trying for "all go and no show":

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bmn68P0n..._web_copy_link

[murphyreedus]

No problem! I'm hesitant to say this, but I almost think once I make a couple adjustments I'll be VERY happy with this piece. Compared to Edge Fitness I don't see a substantial decline in the quality of the materials, with the exception of the center arm the tubing feels about the same thickness/weight. Although I'm starting to wonder if that's why Titan kept the center so short, any longer would it be more prone to bending under heavy load? I might search around for a small extension tube that would fit over the 2"x2", but for now I think I can almost use it as it sits with little complaint. The other thing I might consider doing is cutting a horse stall mat and gluing it to the platform. I'm a fan of lifting barefoot and those razor sharp edges on the logo would open your toes right up! I also just noticed they missed a couple rivets on the platform, might have to get some small screws to tighten that up.

It doesn't sound quite as polished as the RH, but it's reassuring to know that you didn't immediately want to box it up and return it. Now load up 1k on the hooks and see what happens!