Cost No Object: Machines and Free Weights, the Best of the Best. PART 2

[HealthNutMD]

Make no mistake about it, the first Avenger Iso/Fused chest sucks ass. There is a reason they only made so many.

The Avenger chest is a good machine, probably my second favorite Avenger, but unfortunately, still my overall number 4th favorite... tied with the Power-Lift Vertical chests.

Panatta > Atlantis > Avenger/Power-Lift/Flex ...



I just tried the Avenger shoulder again, they have one down at Best Used Gym equipment in Miami, just reconfirmed I have no interest in that piece. You have to jack the seat all the way up and push the back pad almost all the way forward.

The MedX Shoulder is much better than the Avenger shoulder.

[HealthNutMD]

Great pics Chris! That david pullover looks pretty cool. I am anxiously looking forward to your refurb finished products. I just recently came into a 1st gen pullover as well and will have to learn from your refurb expertise.

I will summarize the refurbs on the best nautilus machines so far:

- Low Friction Torso Arm

- First Gen Plate loaded pullover

- SP08 Pullover

- Side Leg curl

-- There are a few more first gen pieces I'm on the fence about...

The side leg curl is turning out to be something special... Its really going to be a completely new machine. The 2 sets of ball bearings (regular and Thrust Ball bearings) are really going to be amazing. Then, consider the cam and sprocket will also have Ball Bearings.

100% Ball Bearing conversion. Weight stack converted to bushings, etc...

I have the strive extreme row and the new prime row doesn't look a whole lot different from the videos I have seen. It is a great piece but the bottom rest has to be up to one of the highest settings and the chest actually off the top of the bench a little with the hands as low as possible. Pulling right to the waist from that low position with proper scapula retraction will light the lats up with minimal bicep recruitment.

I'll have to spend more time on it.

the arc is correct, just like the Avenger row, that old school Cybex row, and the new Panatta bent over row... they all have the right arc of motion....

[Nebamartinez]

So much equipment pron in here 🤤

[ArtifactFit]

Alright, now that the post says (SOLD) on it, I sincerely hope one of you on here picked up that super forearm out of Kansas. I was emailing him back and forth and then.... he tells me he sold it. Please tell me it didnt get snagged up by a re-seller?

[HealthNutMD]

wasn't me... thought about it though.

I'm waiting for my Nautilus Next Gen neck and shoulder to arrive.

[ArtifactFit]

I was kinda hoping it was you healthnut could be a fun one to restore/upgrade

I didn't commit strong enough because I'm cautious about getting burned while arranging shipping until I can chat with them. Each time he replied took longer so I knew it was gone.

Hope someone on here gets to enjoy it!

[deadwoodgregg]

I was fortunate enough to pick up a pretty rare piece recently. This is an HQ LINE (Hix & Miller) Front Squat machine. Not sure how many of these were ever made. I have seen 3 since I have been looking for equipment. Coach Rasmussen asked about this piece earlier in this thread. Irongym discussed several pieces of HQ LINE that he found online. Much heavier built than I anticipated. I believe that one of the former owners of HQ LINE now designs for Hoist. Their dual motion leg press strongly resembles the old HQ LINE dual motion leg press machine.

Old reseller catalog.

http://www.bodypowerusa.com/hq3.html







Footplate has a flip down calf block.




Eric & Eileen from the Fitness Factory in Charlotte have a HQ LINE front squat.

Actually, this gym has quite a number of pieces on the cost no object list.

These guys are funny.

Probably better to watch the full size version of this video.

[HenryMaag]

These guys are funny.

Probably better to watch the full size version of this video.

[/QUOTE]





Dear Thread Members,


After viewing videos (on the internet) of the "Cross Axes Tech" machines in use, I have been accused (on another thread) of building machines with too low of a "lift ratio" (the displacement of the weights divided by the displacement of the machine's effort arm at the point where the operator's body engages it). After viewing this video, I find that I am not alone in utilizing this design factor.


On the other thread ("Plate Loaded Machines") I explained the reasoning behind the low "lift ratio" in my machine designs (that is, the protection of an operator's connective tissue while performing exercises), and pointed out that his observations were only based on the amount of weight he viewed being lifted in the videos, with no regards as to the actual strength of the men in the videos who were lifting the weights. And in fairness, unless you have personally experienced one of my machines, there is no way you can give a credible judgement as to the difficulty or effectiveness of my machines.




Back on topic, this present video depicts 6 different machines (many of which, I might add, are on this threads current 'best of the best' list), and they all show highly reduced 'lift ratios'.

Starting with the Strive (Prime) "Plate Loaded Leg Press" (shown first), if you will note the center of the machine's weight bar at the bottom of its range of motion, you will notice that the bottom of the 45lb weight plate rises to approximately this position at the end of the operator's leg pressing stroke. Assuming the 45lb weight plate to have an approximate 18" diameter (standard for a 45lb weight plate), the weights are moving through approximately 9" of displacement. At the same time the operator, while making a relatively short stroke, appears to be pressing at least 12", making the lift ratio at best 75%.

The next machine, a standard "35° linear carriage-type leg press machine" obviously has a 'lift ratio' of sine 35°, or approximately 57%.

The third machine, the "Power Lift Full Body Squat" appears to be displacing the weights certainly no more than 9" vertically (one half the height of the 45lb plates loaded on its weight bar), while the operator is moving his legs through, at very minimum, a 12" stroke (perhaps much more) making its 'lift ratio' 75% at the very most.

The fourth machine, the "Avenger Leg Press" appears to be the closest to a one to one 'lift ratio', displacing the 45lb plates about 12-13" (using the background as a reference point) while the operator's legs are moving through approximately the same distance.

The fifth machine, what the men in the video are calling a "front squat machine" must be displacing the weights through less distance than the operator's shoulders because the operator is engaging the same arm that the weights are loaded onto at a distance farther away from its pivot point than the point where the weights are loaded; and when this shorter arc is multiplied by the factor that the weights are not moving through a substantially vertical path, but, rather, a substantially 45° path, the vertical displacement of the weights becomes even less, yielding a substantially reduced 'lift ratio'. As a note, I noticed that one of them liked the feel of this machine, this should come as no surprise, in that, in its current configuration, the amount of weight being applied increases as the operator's legs are straightened, yielding more effective muscle loading throughout the movement.

The sixth, and last machine, is the Strive (Prime) Leg Extension machine, and it appears to be displacing the weights approximately the same as the operator's legs. I would like to note that the operator has loaded this leg extension in such a way as to make the weight 'back off' toward peak contraction, which is the most efficient loading on this type of machine.



Sincerely,

Henry Maag

[ArtifactFit]

I was fortunate enough to pick up a pretty rare piece recently. This is an HQ LINE (Hix & Miller) Front Squat machine. Not sure how many of these were ever made. I have seen 3 since I have been looking for equipment. Coach Rasmussen asked about this piece earlier in this thread. Irongym discussed several pieces of HQ LINE that he found online. Much heavier built than I anticipated. I believe that one of the former owners of HQ LINE now designs for Hoist. Their dual motion leg press strongly resembles the old HQ LINE dual motion leg press machine.

Hey Deadwood,

Thanks for sharing. I had not seen one of those in use, around the 7 min mark of that video. It almost looks like the arc is a little short on radius but its tough to tell with those two goofballs using it. The video was pretty funny. I would be interested to hear your feedback on it. Compare it to the Randy Coyle Swing Squat, (I think you have one of those?)

You have had a good deal of experience on leg press/squat type machines, if you dont mind, what would you say your favorite are so far?

[nnclark11]

I was fortunate enough to pick up a pretty rare piece recently. This is an HQ LINE (Hix & Miller) Front Squat machine. Not sure how many of these were ever made. I have seen 3 since I have been looking for equipment. Coach Rasmussen asked about this piece earlier in this thread. Irongym discussed several pieces of HQ LINE that he found online. Much heavier built than I anticipated. I believe that one of the former owners of HQ LINE now designs for Hoist. Their dual motion leg press strongly resembles the old HQ LINE dual motion leg press machine.

Old reseller catalog.

http://www.bodypowerusa.com/hq3.html







Footplate has a flip down calf block.




Eric & Eileen from the Fitness Factory in Charlotte have a HQ LINE front squat.

Actually, this gym has quite a number of pieces on the cost no object list.

These guys are funny.

Probably better to watch the full size version of this video.

Interesting looking piece. I have never seen one before. I would be curious to know how it compares to the traditional vertical front squat type power squat machines? It almost looks like a reverse swing squat motion. I am a huge advocate of front squats. You seem to really pick up some unique stuff! That gym in the video has quite the array of equipment too!

[Nebamartinez]

Deadwood

Those are some cool machines 😎👍

These kind of remind me of the old Hammer Strength H-Squat

[Nebamartinez]

Does anyone know the name of the black colored squat machine at 2:47 min

Also, is that a Nebula leg press just before it...?

Thanks

[squat802]

Does anyone know the name of the black colored squat machine at 2:47 min

Also, is that a Nebula leg press just before it...?

Thanks

The black machine is a Power Lift Full Body Squat, huge footprint and weighs about 900lbs. That looks like a Nebula leg press just b4 it.

[Nebamartinez]

Thanks Squat 🍻

[HealthNutMD]

I have way too much to post and not enough time at the moment. Went to Flanagan's gym this weekend and hung out with Flanagan and Dr Darden.

I wanted to really go over the first gen machines one more time:





I was on the fence with the Duo Squat. I used all of the first gen machines and the Duo squat at Penn State back in 1984+ While it has some unique attributes, and it is a decent machine, I decided I'm just not all that crazy about it overall... Good, but not good enough that I really care about getting one...

There was one machine that I was surprised how much I liked it. I'll talk about it after I secure it next week. I'm also picking up a rowing torso, first gen. I'd like to see how both of these machines feel after ball bearing conversion.

... and thats it... I'm done with my Nautilus venture. The Next Generation neck and shoulder should be here soon, the shipper is slacking.

[HealthNutMD]

This past Friday, I was helping a Panatta distributor do a demo for FIU, and loaned my equipment for the demo:

[jimbuick]

This thread is a great resource for me to use to figure out which pieces are worth getting for my gym.

Unfortunately, cost is an object for me. How do you guys typically handle shipping and refurb on older pieces?

[HenryMaag]

Hey Chris,


Thank you for the feedback on the best angle for an incline press to hit the upper chest without heavily involving the frontal deltoids. Here are a few pictures of a 25° cross-axes incline press machine.


I wonder if I should advertise that it was developed after consulting with a "MD"? Ha, Ha, Ha.



Sincerely (and thank you),

Henry Maag

[lsu777]

Chris,

When you were at Gainesville H&F did you get a chance to try the X-Force machines? If so were any worth buying?

[lsu777]

Also I know David likes the paramount rotary equipment, have you had a chance to try the rotary cheat/incline or shoulder?

[Agathomax]

Panatta have broadcasted new videos of their free weight line. Amongst them, there's some of new designed machines...

[GR75]

The Calf Hack Machine looks really nice. The Panatta Website also has a nice looking Plate Loaded Donkey Calf. The Plate Loaded Donkey Calf looks to be easier to move and possibly a slightly smaller footprint than the traditional Plate Stack/Selectorized Donkey Calf machines I've seen.

A few of you have had the Panatta equipment for a while now. Is everyone still fairly happy with the quality?

Thanks!

Gary

[AttyGuy]

I have way too much to post and not enough time at the moment. Went to Flanagan's gym this weekend and hung out with Flanagan and Dr Darden.

I wanted to really go over the first gen machines one more time:

I'm liking Big Jim Flanagan's gym. I don't often get that far north when I'm in Florida, but next time I will visit his gym.

[SamMcGuckin]

Power-Lift have also released a new posterior chain developer; a combo glute-ham and reverse glute-ham. I know you don't like combo machines but I could see the benefit of being able to do weighted glute-ham raises.

power-lift.com/product-posterior-chain-developer.html

[deadwoodgregg]

I was fortunate enough to pick up a couple more pairs of plates for the gym yesterday. My plates, DBs, and fixed barbells are now all Umax urethane.

[Hardgains88]

I was fortunate enough to pick up a couple more pairs of plates for the gym yesterday. My plates, DBs, and fixed barbells are now all Umax urethane.

Nice score! Im assuming that you lucked out into those second hand? Lots of 35's though i dobt use them on bars, there great for liading on machines and my 10 sit on the leg press weight storage, so that wirks out great.

[Hardgains88]

Power-Lift have also released a new posterior chain developer; a combo glute-ham and reverse glute-ham. I know you don't like combo machines but I could see the benefit of being able to do weighted glute-ham raises.

power-lift.com/product-posterior-chain-developer.html

That looks like a really well built combo, with the exception of adjustable tilt top its got all te right features and unlike many of the combos out there does not look to sacrifice any functionality of te individual movements

[GR75]

I was fortunate enough to pick up a couple more pairs of plates for the gym yesterday. My plates, DBs, and fixed barbells are now all Umax urethane.

Wow.......Nice find Deadwood! You always come up with some really good buys on equipment.

Maybe you can find a Panatta Plate Loaded Donkey Calf for me?

[Bench905]

Super excited - picked up a mint UCS GHD today.

[GamecockLifter]

Super excited - picked up a mint UCS GHD today.

Awesome pick up. I used to train on one at the facility I used to belong to and it was a fantastic piece.

May I ask how much it cost you?