Cost No Object: Machines and Free Weights, the Best of the Best. PART 2

[ncsuLuke]

Anyone have/use the Life Fitness G3? I would like to eventually get a lat pulldown/low row selectorized setup and the fact that this one has additional pulleys for chest/shoulder exercises seems to be pretty useful and it is compact enough to fit in the open space in my garage. That said, I am a bit skeptical since it is described as a "home gym" setup that it is going to not feel adequate compared to a standard lat pulldown/low row setup. What I read said you can get a 50lb add on so with a 210lb weight stack I figure that will probably be adequate for my use.

[ydmora]

HenryMaag,

I don’t even know what to respond first to of what you wrote. I agree, our writings here to each other are nothing personal, just sharing ideas. I like Arthur Jones Nautilus. It is not the only company I like but their equipment just so happens to be, for the most part, the best for my muscle building goals. I own other brands but in total those other brands make up less than 10% of my equipment holdings.
Therefore, I don’t think I have blinders on to the world. A question comes to mind from something you wrote. What could ever possess you to say that a muscle reaches its peak resistance capacity when ONLY 50% of its fibers are stimulated/activated into contraction???
Seriously review your answer to this question before posting, please.

YDM

[fingerguy]

90% from Rogue

Crossrope and RX Smart Gear for Jump Ropes

and a few stall mats from Tractor Supply

I used to go to Ironmind but no more.

Airdyne where you can find it
Concept C2 Rowers
I like many stationary bikes

[pbipaul]

HealthNutMD, can you give your feelings on the comparison of the Strive plate loaded bicep and the Atlantis plate loaded bicep? I have priced out both, and they are relatively similar in that regard. Having used them both, I'm interested in your thoughts. You had them both on the top tier list, so perhaps it's a wash for you since they do things a bit differently.

[HealthNutMD]

They are both great bicep machines, both truly deserving to be in any gym. The strive is better in the sense that you can play with the strength curve a ton. The Atlantis has the best dual grip positions I have ever used. The angle of the hammer grip portion is outstanding. I kept both of those machines because each offerred something unique and outstanding.

I ended up selling both once I picked up the Power-Lift because in an overall sense, it was the best preacher curl bicep I have used, period. Absolutely amazing preacher curl and still my overall #1. It's a bonus that it is selectorized... although I dont use selectorized as judging criteria. Certainly, all things being absolutely equal, I'll take selectorized, assuming the weight stack is sufficient.

The Power-Lift has great dual grips as well, essentially equal to the Atlantis. There is a slight flaring of the Atlantis hammer grip, which I like slightly better than the straight hammer grip of the power-lift, but they are both great, so no issue at all. It's too bad the Strive/Prime selectorized is not as good as any of the above.

[deadwoodgregg]

I have had a Rogers Pendulum 5-way neck and sold it. Once owned an Avenger 4-way neck and traded it. Kinda regret letting the Avenger go. But, equipment just comes to me. I found this Dynamic Fitness & Strength 4-way neck in "same as new" condition from the boys over at Roush Fenway racing in Charlotte. Obvious Avenger copy with a couple of improvements. This is the first Dynamic 4-way neck that I have seen become available on the used market.





Bumper type plate storage saves space over the Avenger type plate storage.

Adjustable foot rest height positioning. Adjusts like a power rack j-hook. Foot pedal pop pin seat height adjustment. The double grip handle flips up if the user chooses to hold & anchor there instead of using two of the other 4 handles.


Laser cut selector numbers on the torso pad positioning.

[HenryMaag]

HenryMaag,

...What could ever possess you to say that a muscle reaches its peak resistance capacity when ONLY 50% of its fibers are stimulated/activated into contraction???

YDM

ydmora,


Well, where did I say that a "muscle reaches its peak resistance capacity when only 50% of its fibers are stimulated/activated into contraction"??? My own ability to reason tells me "that a 'maximum' contractile force is applied when a 'maximum' number of muscle 'fibers are stimulated/activated into contraction". If this is what you are trying to say, then we are in agreement.



Even if you were to convince me that Arthur Jone's theory on muscular contraction (that muscles applied maximum contractile force only in their most contracted positions) was true or valid, it still would not answer the practical reality, that, statistically (that is, taking a large sector of the human population) this theory does not fit the observations. Muscle-building machines are designed to be used by people. I assume that Arthur's objective in building machines for sale was, just like mine, to provide end users with a practical means to increase their muscle size/strength (force applying capabilities), not to test his theories.



I will admit, I don't know all human bodies, ...I am not a kinesiologist, ...I have never isolated a human muscle and attached its two ends to a force gage: I base the things that I say and share with others only on my own observations on the macro level (incidentally, the level that we work out on). When I say that people can pull more weight in a pulldown or rowing movement when the arms are fully extended versus progressively less weight as the driving muscles (the lattisimus dorsi and bicep muscles) move toward contraction, this is simply based on my observations of myself and others. If everyone that I see can pull more weight at the beginning of a pulldown or rowing movement and progressively less as the movement continues, I feel safe in saying (and sharing) that a pulldown or row machine should be designed to apply progressively less weight as the movement is performed (this is simply a classic scientific approach). I might point out that Falloffguy has apparently come to the same observations as I have, and even points out that 'most people with any sense do' too.


He (Falloffguy) apparently has heard from 'several people associated with Nautilus that Arthur purposefully ramped up the resistance at the end of the movement because he knew that trainees were going to use excessively high rates of speed'. If this is the case (and they simply weren't making an excuse for what they also felt was incorrect), then I would be in agreement with Arthur, because, statistically, I have observed that the more ballistically a movement is performed, the more the load should shift toward the end of the movement. ...I will acknowledge that if someone is training ballistically (explosively) that Arthur's vintage Nautilus machines may feel pretty good (at least the force application profiles - as I don't feel that the padding on most of those machines was very substantial - and, obviously, the relatively very high friction of his force-transmitting mechanisms would not be conductive to ballistic training).


Unfortunately, if what Falloffguy says is true (and I'm sure that you could confirm it, being a Nautilus guy), that Arthur says to "move slower if in doubt as to the speed of motion used"; then, given his own instructions as to how his machines are to be used, he, no doubt in my mind, mis-designed his machines force-application profiles (which can be statistically confirmed through observations of people using his vintage machines).



Look, if you like his vintage machines, and they work for you, then, by all means buy and collect them. At a minimum, you will possess a collection of machines which 'statistically' have been accepted by the muscle-building world as the classic fore-runners of the industry (Arthur obviously 'beat me to the punch').




You seem to me to be well educated, with a good knowledge of the industry (you actually own multiple brands of machines - which makes me curious what other brands you own? and how you feel they stack up with your Nautilus machines?).

I actually hope that some day you get to try one of my machines. My machines are actually pretty good at speaking for themselves; I think, perhaps, I tend to rub people wrong.

[pbipaul]

They are both great bicep machines, both truly deserving to be in any gym. The strive is better in the sense that you can play with the strength curve a ton. The Atlantis has the best dual grip positions I have ever used. The angle of the hammer grip portion is outstanding. I kept both of those machines because each offerred something unique and outstanding.

I ended up selling both once I picked up the Power-Lift because in an overall sense, it was the best preacher curl bicep I have used, period. Absolutely amazing preacher curl and still my overall #1. It's a bonus that it is selectorized... although I dont use selectorized as judging criteria. Certainly, all things being absolutely equal, I'll take selectorized, assuming the weight stack is sufficient.

The Power-Lift has great dual grips as well, essentially equal to the Atlantis. There is a slight flaring of the Atlantis hammer grip, which I like slightly better than the straight hammer grip of the power-lift, but they are both great, so no issue at all. It's too bad the Strive/Prime selectorized is not as good as any of the above.

Great info, thx. Have you used the Atlantis selectorized preacher? Looks very similar to their plate-loaded version. That power-lift scares me a little. Looks super 1980s low-tech..."looks". They have no vids of it either, and nothing on youtube. I’m feelin ya, but that one makes me nervous.

[HealthNutMD]

Nothing to be nervous about. Another added bonus that the power lift preacher offere is pre-stretch adjustment. The power-lift preacher is loved by many here. Absolutely amazing to everyone who has used it. So much so that I sold the Strive and the Atlantis.

[HealthNutMD]

Looks like a great machine, and in perfect condition!

Would love to try it and hear how you like it...

I have had a Rogers Pendulum 5-way neck and sold it. Once owned an Avenger 4-way neck and traded it. Kinda regret letting the Avenger go. But, equipment just comes to me. I found this Dynamic Fitness & Strength 4-way neck in "same as new" condition from the boys over at Roush Fenway racing in Charlotte. Obvious Avenger copy with a couple of improvements. This is the first Dynamic 4-way neck that I have seen become available on the used market.





Bumper type plate storage saves space over the Avenger type plate storage.

Adjustable foot rest height positioning. Adjusts like a power rack j-hook. Foot pedal pop pin seat height adjustment. The double grip handle flips up if the user chooses to hold & anchor there instead of using two of the other 4 handles.


Laser cut selector numbers on the torso pad positioning.

[rpark]

I have had a Rogers Pendulum 5-way neck and sold it. Once owned an Avenger 4-way neck and traded it. Kinda regret letting the Avenger go. But, equipment just comes to me. I found this Dynamic Fitness & Strength 4-way neck in "same as new" condition from the boys over at Roush Fenway racing in Charlotte. Obvious Avenger copy with a couple of improvements. This is the first Dynamic 4-way neck that I have seen become available on the used market.

Nice Gregg, curious how you compare it to the Rogers 5 way. It does look to have a very small footprint. Nice pickup.

[RichardHandy]

Has anyone ever seen a cord used on a lat pull-down instead of a cable. Not sure what kind of cord but thinking its a parachute cord maybe.

If it's blue or green, it's most likely Amsteel. Guys into offroading commonly replace their winch cables with it. It's lighter weight and safer than it's steel counterpart to my understanding.

[dukenukem7777]

For anyone coming through the Denver area, we'll have a selection of Panatta pieces on display by late August/early Sept. The selection of what we will have on display was greatly helped by you all here (especially Chris), and confirmed when I got to test much of it myself at FIBO, so thanks for the info. I was convinced there that the equipment is worth promoting, so we set up the distributor agreement last month and finalized our showroom order.

Fit Evo Line:

1FE200 - Adjustable Back Extension
1FE214 - Abdominial Isolator
1FE056 - Alternate Arm Curl
1FE067 - Abdominal Crunch
1FE094 - Master Gluteus
1FE095 - Horizontal Leg Press Dual System

Freeweight HP:

1HP122 - Power Smith Dual System Upper
1HP503 - High Row
1HP504A - Super Rowing Plus
1HP525 - Deltoid Press, sliding seat version
1HP537 Super Horizontal Bench Press
1HP583 - Leg Press Bridge

Monolith Line:

1MTH081 - Leg Extension

SEC Line:

1SC082 - Leg Curl
1SC115HLP - Jungle Machine HLP

Plus a display showing available colors and designs of steel and padding.

Nothing is on our website yet, we're working on a few things, but we're on Panatta's site.

[HealthNutMD]

That's great news... I was supposed to go to FIBO this year but couldn't make it.

The free weight Ab crunch is significantly superior to any of the selectorized versions. It doesn't have the convenience of selectorized, but it is superior. They cant quite capture the magic of the plate loaded version in their selectorized version.

The Monolith leg extension is a great choice.

I havent tried the master gluteus yet, but the 3 angle choices is a first in the industry, very cool.

That's great you will be the first to get the dual upper smith machine. I won't get to demo it until Aug/Sept.

I wish you could pick up that custom selectorized lat pulldown... that's truly something special...

[dukenukem7777]

That's great news... I was supposed to go to FIBO this year but couldn't make it.

The free weight Ab crunch is significantly superior to any of the selectorized versions. It doesn't have the convenience of selectorized, but it is superior. They cant quite capture the magic of the plate loaded version in their selectorized version.


I wish you could pick up that custom selectorized lat pulldown... that's truly something special...

Good to know about the ab crunch , we only tried the free weight version and it was awesome. Hoping the selectorized is at least close since I think (commercially) it's what most gyms would choose. I'm sure we'll update what we have in the showroom as time goes on!

[HealthNutMD]

It is not... I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I reccomend changing your order to get the plate loaded version. It is not close. Trust me, I tried the monolith Ab as well as the Fit Evo. It's really not close, not at all.

The magic is only found in the plate loaded version. Maybe someday they can get a selectorized version as good, but it simply is NOT close at all.

[McBrody]

Credit to both you guys for bringing Panatta to the US in a real way! I hope this is beginning of big things to come, like Panatta popping up in commercial gyms as well as more home gyms. Great news!

[pbipaul]

HealthnutMD, i have another question. And Duke, will call you tomorrow about pricing an order. HealthnutMD, I am down to deciding on a bench between the Panatta super horizontal and the Panatta vertical chest press. I haven't done chest in a decade aside from pushups, and that from nagging should injuries from shoddy spotting in my youth. But, i think with the right motion I can work some form of bench back into my life. Which of the two do you think is best suited for more limited range of motion from prior rotator injuries?

[ydmora]

HenryMaag,
I believe we are in agreement, without knowing it. Understand that, generally speaking, the more isolated a movement is (i.e. permitting circular movement around one pivot point) then one can observe a given muscle respond as i have described (i.e. getting stronger as it recruits muscle fibers). In the case of front grip lat pulldowns or behind the neck lat pulldowns, several muscle groups are activated and one should not mistaken the starting position/ending position performance of these exercises as descriptive of the strength pattern of the individual muscles that contribute to the performance of the exercise. What science has taught us about muscles holds true, and Arthur Jones was correct in his cam profiles (generally speaking). Science has also taught us that not all human beings will respond the same in muscular contraction. For example, the nervous system plays a role and some people have greater neuromuscular contractile capacity then others. First Generation Nautilus Cams, seem to have been made for human beings that perform in the upper third standard deviations (based on a bell shaped curve 🛎 distribution analysis). Next Generation Nautilus Equipment seems to have been made for middle third standard deviations. MEDX equipment cams were oriented towards all those performing in the 50th percentile or below. I choose acquisitions from the above mostly based on such an analysis of my muscular performance.
I tend not to like plate loaded equipment because it causes time to be wasted when switching poundages (i.e. this is bad for those who know that Arthur Jones HIT protocol is the way to go). Remember, Arthur first created a protocol for exercise then he created machines that would serve that protocol well. You could still use his protocol with free weights. I have other brands too that strictly allow me to implement his protocol.

YDM

[HealthNutMD]

Wow, that's a tough choice... Both of those machines are better than anything else ever made. I'd never part with either, there is nothing comparable.

Both machines are super easy on the rotator cuff, magical movement path and convergence.

Any chance you can come to Ft Lauderdale for a demo? Otherwise you could go to Denver or to a Panatta dealer that is closest to you...

[pbipaul]

I wish, but I'm in Northern VA, and the closest dealer is about 4 hours away in NJ. Amazingly and unfortunately, I'm plunking down a big chunk of change on machines that i won't get the chance to demo based on recommendation from some nut I've never met on a messageboard. BUT, i glean from what I'm reading that you truly know your stuff, so I'm trusting my instinct on trusting you. You should really get a commission on this order.

[HealthNutMD]

There is no money to be made here, it's all about finding the best gym equipment we can.

The next step will be making my own, which I'd like to do next. Just need to get situated in a new house, which is looking like it may be 2 years if I go new construction.

[LSBKEB]

I have both Panatta machines in southern VA if you are ever down this way.....

I wish, but I'm in Northern VA, and the closest dealer is about 4 hours away in NJ. Amazingly and unfortunately, I'm plunking down a big chunk of change on machines that i won't get the chance to demo based on recommendation from some nut I've never met on a messageboard. BUT, i glean from what I'm reading that you truly know your stuff, so I'm trusting my instinct on trusting you. You should really get a commission on this order.

[ampire]

I think if there was one weight machine I could have in my house never mind that I do not have the space nor the inclination to acquire machines, I would go for the Hammer Strength Iso-Lateral Chest/Back, a combination of High Row and Chest Press machine two in one. This is a single machine that had two seats on it so you could do either bench press or a high row. The leverage angles and resulting feel of it are absolutely superb for both exercises. I have never liked machines for exercises ever besides using cable crossovers, I wouldn't mind a cable crossover as well, but this was such a great machine, especially the high row portion. One thing that was nice was you didn't have to unload/load two machines if you are doing a push/pull workout day. It always left me feeling very symmetrical anterior/posterior.

Hammer Strength Plate-Loaded Iso-Lateral Chest Back-1000x1000.jpg

[pbipaul]

I have both Panatta machines in southern VA if you are ever down this way.....

Thank you. Actually headed to Richmond this weekend. Are you in that area, or South South?

[vazqfam]

Well I found a Body Master Tricep Extension and Curl Bench however it was a little rough cosmetically. All of my equipment is in excellent shape so I needed to do a refurb. Complete sand blast and Powder Coat, New Pads, new Caps and Plate & Bar ABS protectors. Also replaced all bolts with Stainless and had new Decals made so it would look original.


Here are a few before and after photos. Obviously this started out with Blue Pads Grey Frame.

Hi, I have a couple of questions regarding the bench I would like to ask offline. I can email. Thanks
Juice

[harrisg83]

If your interested I looking to move my Panatta vertical chest press. I had it delivered about 6 months and it's in brand new condition (only home use) white frame, black movement arms and black leather padding. I also have an Panatta plate load inclined flight machine that I'm also looking to move. Both excellent machines I just decided not open a personal training center that I was planning to do for a few years now, so I'm downsizing my home gym.

HealthnutMD, i have another question. And Duke, will call you tomorrow about pricing an order. HealthnutMD, I am down to deciding on a bench between the Panatta super horizontal and the Panatta vertical chest press. I haven't done chest in a decade aside from pushups, and that from nagging should injuries from shoddy spotting in my youth. But, i think with the right motion I can work some form of bench back into my life. Which of the two do you think is best suited for more limited range of motion from prior rotator injuries?

[harrisg83]

For the right price I might be willing to move my Panatta vertical chest. I had it delivered about 6 months ago. Only home use so it's in brand new condition. White frame, black movement arms, black leather padding. I had been thinking for a few years now about opening up a personal training center but I'm way too busy in my career and feel like I'm getting too old to start a new project. So I'm looking to downsize my homegym.

I wish, but I'm in Northern VA, and the closest dealer is about 4 hours away in NJ. Amazingly and unfortunately, I'm plunking down a big chunk of change on machines that i won't get the chance to demo based on recommendation from some nut I've never met on a messageboard. BUT, i glean from what I'm reading that you truly know your stuff, so I'm trusting my instinct on trusting you. You should really get a commission on this order.

[vazqfam]

[QUOTE=ampire;1552326241]I think if there was one weight machine I could have in my house never mind that I do not have the space nor the inclination to acquire machines, I would go for the Hammer Strength Iso-Lateral Chest/Back, a combination of High Row and Chest Press machine two in one. This is a single machine that had two seats on it so you could do either bench press or a high row. The leverage angles and resulting feel of it are absolutely superb for both exercises. I have never liked machines for exercises ever besides using cable crossovers, I wouldn't mind a cable crossover as well, but this was such a great machine, especially the high row portion. One thing that was nice was you didn't have to unload/load two machines if you are doing a push/pull workout day. It always left me feeling very symmetrical anterior/posterior.



Hey,

I had a Hammer PL incline machine and front lat pulldown. I sold them both in favor of this dual machine (back/chest) machine that I pick up from a trainer in Beverly Hills. I found it to be a bad choice for me at least. The hammer combo incline portion is not converging like the hammer incline press. I ended up selling it and getting another hammer incline, and a separate panatta lat pulldown.

[pbipaul]

For the right price I might be willing to move my Panatta vertical chest. I had it delivered about 6 months ago. Only home use so it's in brand new condition. White frame, black movement arms, black leather padding. I had been thinking for a few years now about opening up a personal training center but I'm way too busy in my career and feel like I'm getting too old to start a new project. So I'm looking to downsize my homegym.

Pm sent