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  1. #241
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    Creatine is one of those supplements that really work.
    But those with varicose veins be careful. It gave me such a hard time...
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  2. #242
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    Creatine is perhaps one of the most popular dietary supplements among natural athletes. There're a lot of supps with creatine on the sports nutrition market. And every year their number doubles. New products with this miracle molecule constantly appear. The excitement around creatine is simply explained: it really works, though not for all athletes.
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  3. #243
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    the creatine in the best option!!
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  4. #244
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    Hi - First of all to the OP - thanks for a great & complete write-up on creatine - nice job!

    I am just trying to understand the basics of what someone can expect in terms of size, strength gains with creatine vs. without.

    I started taking creating 7 days ago and have gained probably 3 lbs and it WASN'T MUSCLE.
    Just some basic questions - do you alter your nutrition at all while taking creatine? I would like to gain muscle size & strength - maybe I need to increase the amount of creatine I'm taking; also 7 days is not a long time so I need to be patient.
    Last edited by SandmanLogan5; 07-26-2018 at 10:02 AM. Reason: Was joking about not training
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  5. #245
    INDUSTRY INSIDER WillBrink's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SandmanLogan5 View Post
    Hi - First of all to the OP - thanks for a great & complete write-up on creatine - nice job!

    I am just trying to understand the basics of what someone can expect in terms of size, strength gains with creatine vs. without.

    I started taking creating 7 days ago and have gained probably 3 lbs and it WASN'T MUSCLE.
    Just some basic questions - do you alter your nutrition at all while taking creatine and also - do you need to be lifting weights to get any of the strength gains? I don't workout but would like to gain muscle size & strength - maybe I need to increase the amount of creatine I'm taking; also 7 days is not a long time so I need to be patient.
    Dude...That's like saying I don't run but want to learn to run faster. It makes no sense. Get in the gym if you want "gain muscle size & strength"
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  6. #246
    Registered User SandmanLogan5's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    Dude...That's like saying I don't run but want to learn to run faster. It makes no sense. Get in the gym if you want "gain muscle size & strength"
    Will - I edited my post above - was joking about 'not training' but I just have NOT gotten noticable gains using creatine ... tbh I've lifted fairly consistently for 15+ years.
    While not on creatine vs. adding it to my supplement regimen I don't see the needle moving at all on the scales (or wrt reps/weights). I'll be patient.
    I like the science behind the health benefits of creatine regardless - the evidence is solid not just for muscle & strength but for health & even cognitive function it seems. I'm going to possibly try to load with slightly higher amounts for a few days,
    Thanks again.
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  7. #247
    INDUSTRY INSIDER WillBrink's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SandmanLogan5 View Post
    Will - I edited my post above - was joking about 'not training' but I just have NOT gotten noticable gains using creatine ... tbh I've lifted fairly consistently for 15+ years.
    While not on creatine vs. adding it to my supplement regimen I don't see the needle moving at all on the scales (or wrt reps/weights). I'll be patient.
    I like the science behind the health benefits of creatine regardless - the evidence is solid not just for muscle & strength but for health & even cognitive function it seems. I'm going to possibly try to load with slightly higher amounts for a few days,
    Thanks again.
    It's possible you're a non responder to creatine. You can try higher doses, and or try with dextrose, which did lower the % of non responders in studies. My advice would also be to pre dissolve in a warm liquid (as all the early studies did BTW...) and see if that helps. As you said, the potential health benefits are so extensive, it's cheap, and has decades of safety data now, take it anyway
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  8. #248
    Registered User paguard15h's Avatar
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    Creatine and BCAA use

    Is this a good thread to ask about stacking creatine with BCAAs/Carnitine? Very new to this forum.

    I have to maintain height/weight reqs, but I'm consistently exhausted before I finish a workout. I'm on a Ketogenic diet which I know isn't exactly ideal when talking about avoiding muscle exhaustion, however I'm constantly having to cut weight.
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  9. #249
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    This is a great thread, lots of good information
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  10. #250
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    Originally Posted by paguard15h View Post
    Is this a good thread to ask about stacking creatine with BCAAs/Carnitine? Very new to this forum.

    I have to maintain height/weight reqs, but I'm consistently exhausted before I finish a workout. I'm on a Ketogenic diet which I know isn't exactly ideal when talking about avoiding muscle exhaustion, however I'm constantly having to cut weight.
    Creatine is fine to stack, but it is optimal to stack with an EAA rather than BCAA as well as either ALCAR or LCLT instead of Carnitine~
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  11. #251
    INDUSTRY INSIDER WillBrink's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by koweanguy View Post
    Creatine is fine to stack, but it is optimal to stack with an EAA rather than BCAA as well as either ALCAR or LCLT instead of Carnitine~
    Not aware of data showing combining the EEA and creatine has any benefits above creatine alone, much less BCAA. BCAA minus EEA appears a waste of $, and whey has BCAA and EEA covered perfectly, and the rest from whole protein, = BCAA and EEA as supplements waste O $.
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  12. #252
    INDUSTRY INSIDER WillBrink's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by paguard15h View Post
    Is this a good thread to ask about stacking creatine with BCAAs/Carnitine? Very new to this forum.

    I have to maintain height/weight reqs, but I'm consistently exhausted before I finish a workout. I'm on a Ketogenic diet which I know isn't exactly ideal when talking about avoiding muscle exhaustion, however I'm constantly having to cut weight.
    Not a thread for general Qs, but creatine focused, but I responded to a BCAA type question prior page I recall. It appears you have the everything but the kitchen sink of fads in your program. I'd recommend taking some time to track down each of those topics on this forum. Creatine is win, the rest are meh.
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  13. #253
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    Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    Not aware of data showing combining the EEA and creatine has any benefits above creatine alone, much less BCAA. BCAA minus EEA appears a waste of $, and whey has BCAA and EEA covered perfectly, and the rest from whole protein, = BCAA and EEA as supplements waste O $.
    Ah, I would also consider EAA as the last priority for supplementation.
    But when I stated "optimal", I meant EAA > BCAA if someone has the budget for it

    Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    You can try higher doses)
    Upping mine from 5g to 10g for the next 3 months.
    Curiouser & Curiouser~
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  14. #254
    INDUSTRY INSIDER WillBrink's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by koweanguy View Post
    Ah, I would also consider EAA as the last priority for supplementation.
    But when I stated "optimal", I meant EAA > BCAA if someone has the budget for it
    Whey is not terribly expensive and is as good as BCAA = EEA gonna get.
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  15. #255
    Registered User gr3gorio's Avatar
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    Helpful as I need to maintain my creatine
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  16. #256
    INDUSTRY INSIDER WillBrink's Avatar
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    =

    An excellent review on the potential benefits to the brain:

    Beyond muscle: the effects of creatine supplementation on brain creatine, cognitive processing, and traumatic brain injury

    Abstract

    The ergogenic and therapeutic effects of increasing muscle creatine by supplementation are well-recognized. It appears that similar benefits to brain function and cognitive processing may also be achieved with creatine supplementation, however research in this area is more limited, and important knowledge gaps remain. The purpose of this review is to provide a comprehensive overview of the current state of knowledge about the influence of creatine supplementation on brain function in healthy individuals. It appears that brain creatine is responsive to supplementation, however higher, or more prolonged dosing strategies than those typically used to increase muscle creatine, may be required to elicit an increase in brain creatine. The optimal dosing strategy to induce this response, is currently unknown, and there is an urgent need for studies investigating this. When considering the influence of supplementation strategies on cognitive processes, it appears that creatine is most likely to exert an influence in situations whereby cognitive processes are stressed, e.g. during sleep deprivation, experimental hypoxia, or during the performance of more complex, and thus more cognitively demanding tasks. Evidence exists indicating that increased brain creatine may be effective at reducing the severity of, or enhancing recovery from mild traumatic brain injury, however, only limited data in humans are available to verify this hypothesis, thus representing an exciting area for further research.

    Source:

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/...1.2018.1500644
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  17. #257
    Registered User Galiron's Avatar
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    Hey Will, from what i have come to understand from this thread, i can safely continue to take 5g of creatine everyday forever? I've been taking 5g everyday for a month now and i can really tell that it helps to eliminate fatigue and retain water.
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  18. #258
    INDUSTRY INSIDER WillBrink's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Galiron View Post
    Hey Will, from what i have come to understand from this thread, i can safely continue to take 5g of creatine everyday forever? I've been taking 5g everyday for a month now and i can really tell that it helps to eliminate fatigue and retain water.
    There's no reason to go off creatine per OP. No cycling, etc needed.
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  19. #259
    INDUSTRY INSIDER WillBrink's Avatar
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    Studies suggest creatine may be helpful with depression and various mood disorders as well as being neuroprotective. Here's a new review worth a read:

    The possible beneficial effects of creatine for the management of depression

    Progress in Neuro-psychopharmacology & Biological Psychiatry 2018 September 4

    Depression, a highly prevalent neuropsychiatric disorder worldwide, causes a heavy burden for the society and is associated with suicide risk. The treatment of this disorder remains a challenge, since currently available antidepressants provide a slow and, often, incomplete response and cause several side effects that contribute to diminish the adhesion of patients to treatment. In this context, several nutraceuticals have been investigated regarding their possible beneficial effects for the management of this neuropsychiatric disorder.

    Creatine stands out as a supplement frequently used for ergogenic purpose, but it also is a neuroprotective compound with potential to treat or mitigate a broad range of central nervous systems diseases, including depression. This review presents preclinical and clinical evidence that creatine may exhibit antidepressant properties. The focus is given on the possible molecular mechanisms underlying its effects based on the results obtained with different animal models of depression.

    Finally, evidence obtained in animal models of depression addressing the possibility that creatine may produce rapid antidepressant effect, similar to ********, are also presented and discussed.

    Full paper:

    http://sci-hub.tw/10.1016/j.pnpbp.2018.08.029
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  20. #260
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    Great article, thanks for the info
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  21. #261
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    At age 70, looks like my question should be why NOT take it?

    Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    Studies suggest creatine may be helpful with depression and various mood disorders as well as being neuroprotective. Here's a new review worth a read:

    The possible beneficial effects of creatine for the management of depression

    Progress in Neuro-psychopharmacology & Biological Psychiatry 2018 September 4

    Depression, a highly prevalent neuropsychiatric disorder worldwide, causes a heavy burden for the society and is associated with suicide risk. The treatment of this disorder remains a challenge, since currently available antidepressants provide a slow and, often, incomplete response and cause several side effects that contribute to diminish the adhesion of patients to treatment. In this context, several nutraceuticals have been investigated regarding their possible beneficial effects for the management of this neuropsychiatric disorder.

    Creatine stands out as a supplement frequently used for ergogenic purpose, but it also is a neuroprotective compound with potential to treat or mitigate a broad range of central nervous systems diseases, including depression. This review presents preclinical and clinical evidence that creatine may exhibit antidepressant properties. The focus is given on the possible molecular mechanisms underlying its effects based on the results obtained with different animal models of depression.....

    ...............
    Great job Will. I am new to bodybuilding.com and this is my first post. I've been lifting weights for over 40 years and even at age 70, I am lean but was able to add a bit of muscle mass by adding Gold Standard Whey to my diet. I used creatine monohydrate with good results many years ago and was looking into it again. In the original post, you state:

    " .... Mixing in a warm liquid may not impact absorption and utilization, pre solubilizing creatine generally eliminates any gastrointestinal some may experience. Early studies mixed creatine hot tea and coffee. Timing does not appear to matter, although one small study suggested post workout was superior. Most take creatine post workout, but as creatine is a chronic effect (due to increased tissue levels of PC) vs. an acute effect such a caffeine does."

    Every day for lunch, I cook up 2 cups (dry) oatmeal in 3 cups boing water and add a scoop of whey after it's cooked mixing it in with a cup of low fat milk. I plan to add the recommended the dose of creatine to my oatmeal mix. I work out 5 days a week and get to the gym around 3 p.m. .... lifting 60-90 minutes, aerobics 30 minutes.

    Does that sound alright ... or is there something new I should know about that says it's better to take it after my workout?
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    INDUSTRY INSIDER WillBrink's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Paul1792 View Post
    Great job Will. I am new to bodybuilding.com and this is my first post. I've been lifting weights for over 40 years and even at age 70, I am lean but was able to add a bit of muscle mass by adding Gold Standard Whey to my diet. I used creatine monohydrate with good results many years ago and was looking into it again. In the original post, you state:

    " .... Mixing in a warm liquid may not impact absorption and utilization, pre solubilizing creatine generally eliminates any gastrointestinal some may experience. Early studies mixed creatine hot tea and coffee. Timing does not appear to matter, although one small study suggested post workout was superior. Most take creatine post workout, but as creatine is a chronic effect (due to increased tissue levels of PC) vs. an acute effect such a caffeine does."

    Every day for lunch, I cook up 2 cups (dry) oatmeal in 3 cups boing water and add a scoop of whey after it's cooked mixing it in with a cup of low fat milk. I plan to add the recommended the dose of creatine to my oatmeal mix. I work out 5 days a week and get to the gym around 3 p.m. .... lifting 60-90 minutes, aerobics 30 minutes.

    Does that sound alright ... or is there something new I should know about that says it's better to take it after my workout?
    Honestly not sure what, if any, effects that will have on absorption mixed in that specific blend of stuff. I suspect it would be fine as people add creatine to their protein shakes, etc regularly.
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    Talking

    Y'all sure it won't make me go bald?

    Somewhat srs though, I've heard lots of conflicting info and I'm rather attached to my hair.
    Last edited by Florida9MM; 10-01-2018 at 07:56 PM.
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    Originally Posted by Florida9MM View Post
    Y'all sure it won't make me go bald?

    Somewhat srs though, I've heard lots of conflicting info and I'm rather attached to my hair.
    It will not make you go bald. My avi may suggest otherwise however...
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    INDUSTRY INSIDER WillBrink's Avatar
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    On pre dissolving ye creatine:

    Years ago I made a vid recommending people pre dissolve their creatine in warm liquids before consuming. I took some heat over that one from some corners, and a lot of gratitude from others who had their stomach issues when taking creatine disappear by pre dissolving it.

    The simple vid I did showing pre mixing creatine a good idea, has gotten more traffic and discussion than any vid I have done, and still shows up regularly. So, let me explain with more details and self corrections from the criticisms I get gotten...

    Yes, I may have over stated the importance of it in the vid, but, the fact is, creatine must be solubilized before it will get absorbed. There's a number of papers confirming that unless there's another route of absorption for CM I'm not aware of... It will either get solubilized in digestion or it can be done first in the glass. People who get stomach problems from creatine have been told to pre solubilize their creatine for decades.

    For people who get stomach upset, non responders (approx 30% of users) they may get better responses from fully dissolving, but that's hypothesis on my part only. I can say, thousands of people have reported the stomach issues and bloating they experienced were gone once they pre solubilized their creatine. Clearly, some of the creatine not dissolved in the glass will be made soluble and absorbed and I should have been clearer about that in the vid, but it's well established in human digestion that compounds with poor solubility are often poorly absorbed.

    It's also going to be dose dependent (large amounts of CM are more likely to not get solubalized and absorbed, causing stomach issues, etc) while smaller amounts, less so. At this point, I tell people If one has gotten good response from not fully dissolving, don't sweat it, but it's my opinion that fully dissolving *may* optimize absorption for some, reduces waste, may improve effects in non responders, and will reduce stomach discomfort in those who experience it with creatine.

    It's also going to be individual. Back when loading was all the rage, some got killer cramps, the runs, and a bloated stomach from those mega doses, some had no issues. That was due to the hypotonic effects of large doses of CM.

    Finally, how did all the early studies showing benefits of creatine approach it? They dissolved it hot liquids, tea or coffee in fact.
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  26. #266
    my non-edited 'before'pic etet1919's Avatar
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    I hope I'm posting in the right place. I'm especially interested in WillBrink's opinion. I am a 47 year old natural female bodybuilder who's been lifting heavy, training with intensity and an "explosive" style and doing mainly HIT interval cardio for 14 years now. My only regular "supplements" are Quest protein bars (I've dabbled with nitric oxide years ago). I've never even tried creatine; I fear having kidney issues (my sister has renal disease) and I don't want my ripped physique to become bloated. I thought I was doing well with fast twitch muscle fiber performance and muscle development. But I'm questioning whether I could be hindering more potential for recovery, energy and overall muscle size. Does a woman in my position TRULY need creatine to create NEW muscle growth and to perform sprinting/jumping routines optimally??
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    Originally Posted by etet1919 View Post
    I hope I'm posting in the right place. I'm especially interested in WillBrink's opinion. I am a 47 year old natural female bodybuilder who's been lifting heavy, training with intensity and an "explosive" style and doing mainly HIT interval cardio for 14 years now. My only regular "supplements" are Quest protein bars (I've dabbled with nitric oxide years ago). I've never even tried creatine; I fear having kidney issues (my sister has renal disease) and I don't want my ripped physique to become bloated. I thought I was doing well with fast twitch muscle fiber performance and muscle development. But I'm questioning whether I could be hindering more potential for recovery, energy and overall muscle size. Does a woman in my position TRULY need creatine to create NEW muscle growth and to perform sprinting/jumping routines optimally??
    Define "need"? You don't need pants, but they do come in handy... Will creatine help with your performance goals? Yes, it should in addition to its many potential health benefits. Contraindications/side effects are covered or linked in the OP. Good luck!
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    my non-edited 'before'pic etet1919's Avatar
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    Thank you for replying...will check it out.
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    Hey!

    I must admit, I haven't read every single questions and answers within this thread, so I am sorry if my question has been already answered. I have definitely read the starter description, and it was wonderfully thorough, thank you for all that information!

    It seems to be logical to me that taking CM in general only can help, yet I have read on a lot of sites that it shouldn't be taken during calorie restriction while cutting. Why is that?

    Thank you so much!
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    I want to know this too!
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