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  1. #91
    INDUSTRY INSIDER WillBrink's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Workingstrong;1511550271] Do you have any evidence the creatine transporter does not get saturated, and switch off? Because studies say it does. And I don't mean a study funded or done by someone with financial ties to selling creatine monohydrate.

    Based on what you wrote you know a lot about COP, maybe you take it yourself, however you got a number of things wrong making you look foolish. A "synthetic" compound simply means a compound made in a lab by man especially one in nature. Perhaps you meant artificial which would mean a compound made by man that exists nowhere in nature. CM exists in nature, and is made in labs so it is synthetic. COP is a structural analog of creatine. COP is 60% absorbed by the intestines orally per the patents vs less than 3% absorbed orally for monohydrate per one study. COP is good for body building, athletics, the heart, and cancer also because it gets into cells really well, and gives up the phosphate group to raise the pH of the lower pH environment caused by the lactic acid build up. Oh a thing that gives up a phosphate group is called a - sound it out really slowly now so you learn it "fos fa gen", that is a phosphagen, just like creatine is because it came from creatine.

    Originally Posted by Workingstrong View Post
    So you reject any studies that show long term high dose creatine monohydrate supplementation might be harmful.
    Scuze me? You supplied no such study nor did I reject what you posted. Critical thinking, it's a thing.


    Originally Posted by Workingstrong View Post
    It is not surprising you have no interest in objective science but rather just want to sell people rubbish that does nothing, even though you don't take it yourself.
    Again, supply your source for bolded. You're using typical techniques of the intellectual dishonest person, every time I easily demonstrate you don't know what you're talking about, you move the goal posts. I'd certainly be interested in a comparative study of CM vs COP, and if COP found to be superior, I'd be more than happy to recommend it and use it myself.

    I have been at this for decades now, and have seen all the "superior" forms of creatine that would be better than CM, and every single one to date, found inferior to CM when actually tested under controlled conditions. You know, that thing you refer to as objective science. Liquid creatine, CEE, buffered, etc, etc, all BS.
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  2. #92
    Registered User WolfRose7's Avatar
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    just want to sell people rubbish that does nothing

    Explain this. Forget the other BS for now.

    It is proven to do something in the majority of people taking it. So where does this claim it does "nothing" come from.
    At the very very least it adds weight.
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  3. #93
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    The study that said that long term high dose CM might be hurtful were the ones on formaldehyde etc if you bothered to google the name of study I wrote.

    I think I read one study that said 70% of users don't experience benefit from CM. Yes it adds weight but not in the actual muscle cells, in the extracellular fluid. CM has aggressive marketing though which is why it is so popular.

    I am going to get some data on creatinol o phosphate that isn't on the internet but only in journals in some universities. I will post it here when I do. I expect it to show that c o p can enter cells without the creatine transporter which is why it is so good for body builders because then 100% of people would respond to it.
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  4. #94
    INDUSTRY INSIDER WillBrink's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Workingstrong View Post
    The study that said that long term high dose CM might be hurtful were the ones on formaldehyde etc if you bothered to google the name of study I wrote.
    And I responded specifically about it. You're either being intentional obtuse or your reading comp skills kinda suck

    Originally Posted by Workingstrong View Post
    I think I read one study that said 70% of users don't experience benefit from CM. Yes it adds weight but not in the actual muscle cells, in the extracellular fluid. CM has aggressive marketing though which is why it is so popular.
    70%, just LOL. Non-responders are approx 30%. Why that is also fairly well understood. Again, your source? No studies find the added weight is from extracellular fluid, but intra cellular, which is an anabolic signal to the cell. Compartment studies with CM have been done. It's so popular because we have decades of studies now showing a wide range of benefits to both athletes and non. CM is well supported by the data and you'd really have to be brain dead not to admit that. Other forms however, again, either lack data or have been shown inferior once actually compared head to head with CM. The non CM forms are popular due to aggressive marketing.

    Originally Posted by Workingstrong View Post
    I am going to get some data on creatinol o phosphate that isn't on the internet but only in journals in some universities. I will post it here when I do. I expect it to show that c o p can enter cells without the creatine transporter which is why it is so good for body builders because then 100% of people would respond to it.
    I look forward to reading that data....The H+ buffering effects of the phosphate is beneficial, but again, phosphate sources are cheap that's not news. If the COP has benefits when taken orally superior to that of CM, great, but hard data is simply not there. Hence that objective science you claimed you relied on while I didn't, does not exist at this time.
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  5. #95
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    Been 9 days since I've stopped taking creatine. Face and neck bloat went down a lot. My workout progression is to increase the weight and do low reps then next week do 8-10 reps with that same weight. It was my 8-10 rep week and I was able to lift all my reps but I felt weaker. My forearms gave in really early in my workouts. I was technically stronger but I felt weaker without creatine.
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  6. #96
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    It's pretty clear water is accumulating not the in the muscles in a lot of users of mono who puff up hardcore when on it for a while.And then lose the puff when they stop as the person below said.

    I look forward to reading that data....The H+ buffering effects of the phosphate is beneficial, but again, phosphate sources are cheap that's not news. If the COP has benefits when taken orally superior to that of CM, great, but hard data is simply not there. Hence that objective science you claimed you relied on while I didn't, does not exist at this time.
    Being an industry insider you have probably already read the data on COP or know of it but deliberately lie, and act ignorant of it.
    There is data in the patents also but you ignore it.
    On your website you sell LEF creatine monohydrate so you have financial ties to monohydrate which means your information is biased.

    What are the cheap phosphate sources?
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  7. #97
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    Thanks for sharing this!
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  8. #98
    INDUSTRY INSIDER WillBrink's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Workingstrong View Post
    It's pretty clear water is accumulating not the in the muscles in a lot of users of mono who puff up hardcore when on it for a while.And then lose the puff when they stop as the person below said.
    Again, you claim objective science then ignore it. The water is intra cellular and the data easy enough to find.

    Originally Posted by Workingstrong View Post
    Being an industry insider you have probably already read the data on COP or know of it but deliberately lie, and act ignorant of it.
    There is data in the patents also but you ignore it.
    On your website you sell LEF creatine monohydrate so you have financial ties to monohydrate which means your information is biased.

    What are the cheap phosphate sources?
    Yah, I'm the biased one. LOL

    You said: "I am going to get some data on creatinol o phosphate that isn't on the internet but only in journals in some universities."

    Less talk, more follow up son.
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  9. #99
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    Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    Again, you claim objective science then ignore it. The water is intra cellular and the data easy enough to find.



    Yah, I'm the biased one. LOL

    You said: "I am going to get some data on creatinol o phosphate that isn't on the internet but only in journals in some universities."

    Less talk, more follow up son.
    Umm some people puff up major, and experience no increase in strength so it is obvious that it is not intracellular water. Now you have resorted to deliberately lying. Yes yes follow up will come.
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  10. #100
    INDUSTRY INSIDER WillBrink's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Workingstrong View Post
    Umm some people puff up major, and experience no increase in strength so it is obvious that it is not intracellular water. Now you have resorted to deliberately lying. Yes yes follow up will come.
    Now you're showing you don't actually care about objective science unless you think it supports your hard on for COP. Now supply studies or STFU.
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  11. #101
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    I have some pretty insane results with creatine so i can't say it does not work, and now with Green MAGnitude i have no bloating which is a huge plus.

    I do combine this with some intermittent fasting and i train before i take my 3g of creatine but within 2 weeks my shoulders are a lot larger and my arms bigger.

    I can understand that this cannot work for everyone, also i did read some research about creatine not related to muscle mass and gains and its a pretty amazing and cheap supplement to buy.

    With Green MAGnitude i take half a scoop its around 2.5 3g per day and that is enough for me.
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  12. #102
    INDUSTRY INSIDER WillBrink's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by yannickmessaoud View Post
    I have some pretty insane results with creatine so i can't say it does not work, and now with Green MAGnitude i have no bloating which is a huge plus.

    I do combine this with some intermittent fasting and i train before i take my 3g of creatine but within 2 weeks my shoulders are a lot larger and my arms bigger.

    I can understand that this cannot work for everyone, also i did read some research about creatine not related to muscle mass and gains and its a pretty amazing and cheap supplement to buy.

    With Green MAGnitude i take half a scoop its around 2.5 3g per day and that is enough for me.
    Source? It is related to muscle mass.
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  13. #103
    INDUSTRY INSIDER WillBrink's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Workingstrong View Post
    Yes yes follow up will come.
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  14. #104
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    I have a question here, While i was on my creatine loading cycle I saw great results. I started my creatine cycle when I was in form 3 months ago. After my creatine cycle I took a break from gym due to job and since then I gained some weight. Now Im trying to cut down that weight. My coach once said creatine will provide me energy to work harder at gym and it will burn the fat hence I will cut the extra fat that I have gained.

    So do you guys suggest I should start taking creatine(5gms/day) apart from my Protien? Im also confused about consuming BCAA now.
    BCAA and creatine seem to have one common goal(PUMP/GAINS).

    I understood with little research that I can replace creatine with pre workouts as creatine also gives instant energy to lift weight. SO I dont need to take pre work out, that enhances the NO in body. Or May be I will go for a product like Cullucor's C4 which contains one gram of creatine and preworkout this can be a plus.

    Now coming to BCAA can I use it to cut my weight, because if im not wrong again like creatine even for BCAA i need to consume huge amount of water and again that shall be helpful for cutting.

    So what do you guys suggest? Creatine + BCAA or Just creatine or Just Bcaa?
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  15. #105
    INDUSTRY INSIDER WillBrink's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SyedZeeshan View Post
    I have a question here, While i was on my creatine loading cycle I saw great results. I started my creatine cycle when I was in form 3 months ago. After my creatine cycle I took a break from gym due to job and since then I gained some weight. Now Im trying to cut down that weight. My coach once said creatine will provide me energy to work harder at gym and it will burn the fat hence I will cut the extra fat that I have gained.

    So do you guys suggest I should start taking creatine(5gms/day) apart from my Protien? Im also confused about consuming BCAA now.
    BCAA and creatine seem to have one common goal(PUMP/GAINS).

    I understood with little research that I can replace creatine with pre workouts as creatine also gives instant energy to lift weight. SO I dont need to take pre work out, that enhances the NO in body. Or May be I will go for a product like Cullucor's C4 which contains one gram of creatine and preworkout this can be a plus.

    Now coming to BCAA can I use it to cut my weight, because if im not wrong again like creatine even for BCAA i need to consume huge amount of water and again that shall be helpful for cutting.

    So what do you guys suggest? Creatine + BCAA or Just creatine or Just Bcaa?
    No need to load, no need to cycle. Doses, timing, etc covered in the OP. Not a BCAA thread...
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  16. #106
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    Thank you so much for this information!
    really appreciate it

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  17. #107
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    #yourethebest#thankyou
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  18. #108
    INDUSTRY INSIDER WillBrink's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Workingstrong View Post
    Umm some people puff up major, and experience no increase in strength so it is obvious that it is not intracellular water. Now you have resorted to deliberately lying. Yes yes follow up will come.
    LOL. After you got spanked here so easily and now you're trolling my YT page? Good luck with that. This is the only place you can get away with posting nonsense in an attempt to set up your biz of selling CP as I'm mot a mod here.

    Still waiting on those studies....
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  19. #109
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    I used monohydratate creatine last year for the first time and for 2 months, 20g the first 4 days and 10 grams every day after, but it was almost ineffective. I went from 94.5 kg to 95 kg looking almost the same.
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  20. #110
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    Originally Posted by steelcool1 View Post
    I used monohydratate creatine last year for the first time and for 2 months, 20g the first 4 days and 10 grams every day after, but it was almost ineffective. I went from 94.5 kg to 95 kg looking almost the same.
    If you read the OP you'll see you didn't need to do that, but doing the loading phase is faster. Approx 30% of people are non responders.
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    Very informative OP Will thank you for the effort.

    I had the same question about loading and noticed I also missed the link to Monica's excellent article. Loading seems like a unnecessary gamble to save ~2 weeks for the same result so I think the 5g scoop is the way to go.
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    Hi will creatine help me lose weight, cure my blindness and give me stronger erections?


    Just kidding, serious question though....I typically mix my creatine with my protein in a container for a post workout shake. Sometimes I don't have the shake and I'll just go to work, make oatmeal, and throw the protein/creatine mixture in there instead.

    I assume consuming creatine this way is no different than drinking it in water or a protein shake, correct? And eating creatine definitely leads to stronger erections compared to drinking it, right?
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    Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    .... Approx 30% of people are non responders.
    How can I tell if I am a non-responder? I have taken creatine for a while and honestly not sure if it has made a difference. Should it be really obvious?

    Also, my last blood test showed elevated creatinine. Can I assume that was caused by creatine use (5g/day), or should I be concerned about my kidneys?

    Thanks,
    Steve
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    Originally Posted by Mortar34 View Post
    Hi will creatine help me lose weight, cure my blindness and give me stronger erections?


    Just kidding, serious question though....I typically mix my creatine with my protein in a container for a post workout shake. Sometimes I don't have the shake and I'll just go to work, make oatmeal, and throw the protein/creatine mixture in there instead.

    I assume consuming creatine this way is no different than drinking it in water or a protein shake, correct? And eating creatine definitely leads to stronger erections compared to drinking it, right?
    Far less studies mixed with protein, but pos effects were found in those studies they did. As I point to people, all high creatine foods are dem protein rich foods, so nature.

    Originally Posted by steveboer View Post
    How can I tell if I am a non-responder? I have taken creatine for a while and honestly not sure if it has made a difference. Should it be really obvious?
    You know you're a non responder cuz you don't respond. A few more reps on usual weights, some added body weight is what most notice if it's working. Has so many potential health benefits, it's a no brainer to use regardless in my view

    Originally Posted by Mortar34 View Post
    Also, my last blood test showed elevated creatinine. Can I assume that was caused by creatine use (5g/day), or should I be concerned about my kidneys?

    Thanks,
    Steve
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    Originally Posted by steveboer View Post
    How can I tell if I am a non-responder? I have taken creatine for a while and honestly not sure if it has made a difference. Should it be really obvious?

    Also, my last blood test showed elevated creatinine. Can I assume that was caused by creatine use (5g/day), or should I be concerned about my kidneys?

    Thanks,
    Steve
    Originally Posted by WillBrink View Post
    Far less studies mixed with protein, but pos effects were found in those studies they did. As I point to people, all high creatine foods are dem protein rich foods, so nature.



    You know you're a non responder cuz you don't respond. A few more reps on usual weights, some added body weight is what most notice if it's working. Has so many potential health benefits, it's a no brainer to use regardless in my view



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    Just wanted to add my personal experience:

    I just completed 5 days of the loading phase. I had Diarrhea after day 1 and still have it today. During the night after day 3, 4 and 5 I had intense lower back pain. I thought it might be from my workouts but after reading the OP I realize it was my kidneys.

    I also realize now, after reading the OP, the loading phase is not necessary. Maybe this will help someone make a decision about the loading phase. I will certainly never do it again.
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    I have taken creatine monohydrate for about 3 years now and don't really see a need to come off. I've tried capsules but haven't seen the same results as I have when taking powder. Not sure why this is, but have measured doses to be similar and still choose powder every time.

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    Originally Posted by Kennorthridge View Post
    Just wanted to add my personal experience:

    I just completed 5 days of the loading phase. I had Diarrhea after day 1 and still have it today. During the night after day 3, 4 and 5 I had intense lower back pain. I thought it might be from my workouts but after reading the OP I realize it was my kidneys.

    I also realize now, after reading the OP, the loading phase is not necessary. Maybe this will help someone make a decision about the loading phase. I will certainly never do it again.
    The OP has no mention of loading phase causing kidney pain, so that nonsense didn't come from me. Diarrhea and stomach issues do happen on loading phases yes.
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    WillBrink wrote:
    “The OP has no mention of loading phase causing kidney pain, so that nonsense didn't come from me.”

    WillBrink (From OP)
    “There’s been a handful of case reports that show very high doses of creatine (and the reports were not always clear as to what form of creatine was used) were associated with kidney dysfunction.(70) Typical for such a simple case report, it’s unclear what other medications were involved or pre-existing medical condition existed.”

    I agree this is not a definitive study, but it does suggest there has been some association with creatine and kidney dysfunction.

    By the way, the day I stopped taking creatine the kidney pain disappeared, and has not returned since.
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