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    Registered User rNursejitsu's Avatar
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    cholesterol... lowering.

    thanks in advance...

    other than fish oil ... and niacin... what else is there?!?
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  2. #2
    Registered User thackes1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rNursejitsu View Post
    thanks in advance...

    other than fish oil ... and niacin... what else is there?!?
    healthy diet and exercise.

    If you need anything more, go see a doctor, who will prescribe statins. That is the standard phamacologic intervention. Far more effective than any supplement.
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  3. #3
    MANwhore mtpaquette's Avatar
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    I maybe wrong but I believe Cadence by Nimbus Nutrition has some actual data supporting it.
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    #SelectTheBest kbayne's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by thackes1 View Post
    healthy diet and exercise.

    If you need anything more, go see a doctor, who will prescribe statins. That is the standard phamacologic intervention. Far more effective than any supplement.
    Being put in a statin is the last thing a person wants.

    OP, look into Krill Oil and Citrus Bergamot. 2 grams of Krill per day and 1000mg of Citrus Bergamot per day.

    Diet and cardio also. Add healthy fats like olive oil (get a good brand that isn't sitting on the shelf oxidized already) and nuts.
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  5. #5
    Rustlin' and hustlin' poison's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by thackes1 View Post
    healthy diet and exercise.

    If you need anything more, go see a doctor, who will prescribe statins. That is the standard phamacologic intervention. Far more effective than any supplement.
    Nope, bad idea, unless absolutely necessary.

    Originally Posted by mtpaquette View Post
    I maybe wrong but I believe Cadence by Nimbus Nutrition has some actual data supporting it.
    Yes. Try this with dr oversight. My wife did, with strong results. Her dr was very happy.

    Originally Posted by kbayne View Post
    Being put in a statin is the last thing a person wants.

    OP, look into Krill Oil and Citrus Bergamot. 2 grams of Krill per day and 1000mg of Citrus Bergamot per day.

    Diet and cardio also. Add healthy fats like olive oil (get a good brand that isn't sitting on the shelf oxidized already) and nuts.
    I agree.
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  6. #6
    Rustlin' and hustlin' poison's Avatar
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    Hard proof.

    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...ot+cholesterol

    EDIT: I didn't realize Cadence wasn't bergamot; pretty sure it used to be. My comments above reference the use of bergamot, which is highly effective and worth using under your dr's oversight, when possible.
    Last edited by poison; 03-16-2017 at 07:58 AM.
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  7. #7
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    Originally Posted by rNursejitsu View Post
    thanks in advance...

    other than fish oil ... and niacin... what else is there?!?
    Pantethine.
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  8. #8
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    OP I sent you a PM to check.
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  9. #9
    Registered User thackes1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kbayne View Post
    Being put in a statin is the last thing a person wants.

    OP, look into Krill Oil and Citrus Bergamot. 2 grams of Krill per day and 1000mg of Citrus Bergamot per day.

    Diet and cardio also. Add healthy fats like olive oil (get a good brand that isn't sitting on the shelf oxidized already) and nuts.
    If the statin saves someone from adverse cardiac outcomes and increases their lifespan, I doubt it is the last thing anyone wants.

    Obviously, preventing high cholesterol with diet and exercise is preferable to pharmaceutical intervention, but if you are already in a dangerous range and/or are genetically predisposed to high cholesterol pharmaceutical intervention is necessary. He should see his physician for management of his cholesterol levels.
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  10. #10
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    Bergamot 500mg 2x daily
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    Pantethine: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3942300/

    Notice that it was demonstrated to be pretty effective for a low to moderate risk for CVD individuals. This is a big positive as it suggests that it would be effective for relatively healthy individuals as well in cholesterol management.
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    Originally Posted by thackes1 View Post
    If the statin saves someone from adverse cardiac outcomes and increases their lifespan, I doubt it is the last thing anyone wants.

    Obviously, preventing high cholesterol with diet and exercise is preferable to pharmaceutical intervention, but if you are already in a dangerous range and/or are genetically predisposed to high cholesterol pharmaceutical intervention is necessary. He should see his physician for management of his cholesterol levels.
    You're aware of the side effects correct? Statins should be the last resort.

    Originally Posted by andrewwww View Post
    Bergamot 500mg 2x daily
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    Krill > High EPA/DHA

    Thing with Krill is, it has a much higher bioavailability than fish oil as the EPA/DHA are in the form of phospholipids.

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  13. #13
    Registered User thackes1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kbayne View Post
    You're aware of the side effects correct? Statins should be the last resort.


    I'm aware of the side-effects.

    The "side-effect" of living with high cholesterol is death. Cholesterol levels are largely influenced by genetics. So if you have high cholesterol as someone who is eating healthy and exercising and have a healthy body composition, you NEED pharmaceutical intervention if you want to extend your life and not die from cardiovascular disease (the number one killer in US). If someone is experiencing terrible side-effects from statins (it varies from person to person again because of genetics) then alternative pharmaceutical treatments like Anti-PCSK9 treatments (evolocumab) can be used, which are without those side-effect but far more expensive.
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  14. #14
    Hates most people TMac26's Avatar
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    The side effects of Statins can be worse than having high cholesterol depending on how "high" it really is.


    My dad had a heart attack and had complete blockage in one artery and they had to bypass it. His doctor won't even consider Statins until he literally tries everything else.


    He currently takes Fish Oil (super high quality one), Capros and something else. All recommended by his doctor BEFORE going to Statins.
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  15. #15
    #SelectTheBest kbayne's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by thackes1 View Post
    I'm aware of the side-effects.

    The "side-effect" of living with high cholesterol is death. Cholesterol levels are largely influenced by genetics. So if you have high cholesterol as someone who is eating healthy and exercising and have a healthy body composition, you NEED pharmaceutical intervention if you want to extend your life and not die from cardiovascular disease (the number one killer in US). If someone is experiencing terrible side-effects from statins (it varies from person to person again because of genetics) then alternative pharmaceutical treatments like Anti-PCSK9 treatments (evolocumab) can be used, which are without those side-effect but far more expensive.
    Without even knowing OPs lipid panel, you recommended statins right off the bat.
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    Not a single mention of ashwagandha...?
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  17. #17
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    Originally Posted by kbayne View Post
    Without even knowing OPs lipid panel, you recommended statins right off the bat.
    I said diet and exercise and go see a doctor (who will probably prescribe statins presuming he has high cholesterol and LDL that cannot be controlled). I never recommended any medical intervention. OP is in mid-30s, which is a great time to start taking preventative steps against cardiovascular disease.

    Do you know the incidence and extent of the side-effects of statins? You are trying to portray them as devasting to most users, which is definitely not the case. I would love to hear you make a case against statin use as a pharmaceutical tool for managing high cholesterol and preventing cardiovascular disease. Furthermore, I even mentioned an alternative biologic to statins he could ask his doctor about.
    Last edited by thackes1; 03-16-2017 at 01:32 PM.
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  18. #18
    #SelectTheBest kbayne's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AMeyer9 View Post
    Not a single mention of ashwagandha...?
    Could be another tool, but better options as mentioned in the thread.

    Originally Posted by thackes1 View Post
    I said diet and exercise and go see a doctor (who will probably prescribe statins presuming he has high cholesterol and LDL). I never recommended any medical intervention. OP is in mid-30s, which is a great time to start taking preventative steps against cardiovascular disease.

    Do you know the incidence and extent of the side-effects of statins? You are trying to portray them as devasting to most users, which is definitely not the case. I would love to hear you make a case against statin use as a pharmaceutical tool for managing high cholesterol and preventing cardiovascular disease. Furthermore, I even mentioned an alternative biologic to statins he could ask his doctor about.
    Well at least some doctors are looking out for their patients, at Tmac stated above.

    Yeah, there are going to be some who use statins, and more than likely these individuals are with a very high risk of high cholesterol/cardiovascular disease due to family history. All I can say is I have witnessed and read anecdotal evidence for not using statins.
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    Originally Posted by kbayne View Post
    Could be another tool, but better options as mentioned in the thread.



    Well at least some doctors are looking out for their patients, at Tmac stated above.

    Yeah, there are going to be some who use statins, and more than likely these individuals are with a very high risk of high cholesterol/cardiovascular disease due to family history. All I can say is I have witnessed and read anecdotal evidence for not using statins.
    Anecdotal evidence doesn't outweigh the overwhelming clinical and observational studies performed by health professionals and scientists that show that serious statin side-effects are rare, especially rhabdo (1 in 10,000 incidence). There are definitely medical exceptions to statin use, depending on the patient but that is up to a physician to manage. Additionally, it would be optimal to see a physician who is an expert in cardiovascular disease and metabolism for that medical advice (some like the Cleveland Clinic's Dr. Hazen). Obviously, this can't be the case for everyone. However, there really shouldn't be any fear about the widespread use of statins to control high cholesterol. It could be very dangerous and life-shortening to forgo that options because of outlier cases of side-effects.
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    Originally Posted by thackes1 View Post
    Anecdotal evidence doesn't outweigh the overwhelming clinical and observational studies performed by health professionals and scientists that show that serious statin side-effects are rare, especially rhabdo (1 in 10,000 incidence). There are definitely medical exceptions to statin use, depending on the patient but that is up to a physician to manage. Additionally, it would be optimal to see a physician who is an expert in cardiovascular disease and metabolism for that medical advice (some like the Cleveland Clinic's Dr. Hazen). Obviously, this can't be the case for everyone. However, there really shouldn't be any fear about the widespread use of statins to control high cholesterol. It could be very dangerous and life-shortening to forgo that options because of outlier cases of side-effects.
    To each their own.
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    Benefits of statin therapy highly outweigh the risks, lets not fearmonger about them (statins).
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    Originally Posted by ISurfNudeBrah View Post
    Benefits of statin therapy highly outweigh the risks, lets not fearmonger about them (statins).
    Yes. 100% Agree.
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    Originally Posted by thackes1 View Post
    Anecdotal evidence doesn't outweigh the overwhelming clinical and observational studies performed by health professionals and scientists that show that serious statin side-effects are rare, especially rhabdo (1 in 10,000 incidence). There are definitely medical exceptions to statin use, depending on the patient but that is up to a physician to manage. Additionally, it would be optimal to see a physician who is an expert in cardiovascular disease and metabolism for that medical advice (some like the Cleveland Clinic's Dr. Hazen). Obviously, this can't be the case for everyone. However, there really shouldn't be any fear about the widespread use of statins to control high cholesterol. It could be very dangerous and life-shortening to forgo that options because of outlier cases of side-effects.
    Originally Posted by ISurfNudeBrah View Post
    Benefits of statin therapy highly outweigh the risks, lets not fearmonger about them (statins).
    This exactly!
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    Here are just a few examples of what I am getting at with statins. Sure, they lower LDL and total cholesterol, but are they really helping overall?

    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/ar...l-numbers.aspx

    "Are Cholesterol Drugs Even Effective?

    With all of these risks, the drugs had better be effective, right? Well, even this is questionable. At least, it depends on how you look at it. Most cholesterol-lowering drugs can effectively lower your cholesterol numbers, but are they actually making you any healthier, and do they help prevent heart disease? Have you ever heard of the statistic known as NNT, or number needed to treat? I didn't think so. In fact, most doctors haven't either. And herein lies the problem. NNT answers the question: How many people have to take a particular drug to avoid one incidence of a medical issue (such as a heart attack)? For example, if a drug had an NNT of 50 for heart attacks, then 50 people have to take the drug in order to prevent one heart attack.

    Easy enough, right? Well, drug companies would rather that you not focus on NNT, because when you do, you get an entirely different picture of their "miracle" drugs. Take, for instance, Pfizer's Lipitor, which is the most prescribed cholesterol medication in the world and has been prescribed to more than 26 million Americans.18 According to Lipitor's own Web site, Lipitor is clinically proven to lower bad cholesterol 39-60 percent, depending on the dose. Sounds fairly effective, right? Well, BusinessWeek actually did an excellent story on this very topic earlier this year,19 and they found the REAL numbers right on Pfizer's own newspaper ad for Lipitor.

    Upon first glance, the ad boasts that Lipitor reduces heart attacks by 36 percent. But there is an asterisk. And when you follow the asterisk, you find the following in much smaller type: "That means in a large clinical study, 3% of patients taking a sugar pill or placebo had a heart attack compared to 2% of patients taking Lipitor."

    What this means is that for every 100 people who took the drug over 3.3 years, three people on placebos, and two people on Lipitor, had heart attacks. That means that taking Lipitor resulted in just one fewer heart attack per 100 people. The NNT, in this case, is 100. One hundred people have to take Lipitor for more than three years to prevent one heart attack. And the other 99 people, well, they've just dished out hundreds of dollars and increased their risk of a multitude of side effects for nothing. So you can see how the true effectiveness of cholesterol drugs like Lipitor is hidden behind a smokescreen. Or in some cases, not hidden at all.

    Zetia and Vytorin: No Medical Benefits

    Early in 2008, it came out that Zetia, which works by inhibiting absorption of cholesterol from your intestines, and Vytorin, which is a combination of Zetia and Zocor (a statin drug), do not work. This was discovered AFTER the drugs acquired close to 20 percent of the U.S. market for cholesterol-lowering drugs. And also after close to 1 million prescriptions for the drugs were being written each week in the United States, bringing in close to $4 billion in 2007.20

    It was only after the results of a trial by the drugs' makers, Merck and Schering-Plough, were released that this was found out. Never mind that the trial was completed in April 2006, and results were not released until January 2008. And it's no wonder the drug companies wanted to hide these results. While Zetia does lower cholesterol by 15 percent to 20 percent, trials did not show that it reduces heart attacks or strokes, or that it reduces plaques in arteries that can lead to heart problems.

    The trial by the drugs' makers, which studied whether Zetia could reduce the growth of plaques, found that plaques grew nearly twice as fast in patients taking Zetia along with Zocor (Vytorin) than in those taking Zocor alone.21 Of course, the answer is not to turn back to typical statin drugs to lower your cholesterol, as many of the so-called experts would have you believe. You see, statins are thought to have a beneficial effect on inflammation in your body, thereby lowering your risk of heart attack and stroke.

    But you can lower inflammation in your body naturally, without risking any of the numerous side effects of statin drugs. This should also explain why my guidelines for lowering cholesterol are identical to those to lower inflammation."

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    They are proven to decrease mortality Kbayne...

    Lovaza (fish oil) and niacin do have data behind them showing benefits as well, but nothing like statins.

    I am concerned that you think mercola is a credible source, he is a known quack md.... absolutely the laughing stock of medicine along with Wakefield. He would rather sell you bunk supplements from his own personal online store (you linked it above) to line his pockets than you take life saving medication... wtf man. He is a complete joke.
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    Originally Posted by ISurfNudeBrah View Post
    They are proven to decrease mortality Kbayne...

    Lovaza (fish oil) and niacin do have data behind them showing benefits as well, but nothing like statins.

    I am concerned that you think mercola is a credible source, he is a known quack md.... absolutely the laughing stock of medicine along with Wakefield. He would rather sell you bunk supplements from his own personal online store (you linked it above) to line his pockets than you take life saving medication... wtf man. He is a complete joke.
    This!

    We should be discussing and referencing primary scientific data and credible secondary sources (ie reviews in peer-review scientific journals) rather than tertiary sources that are often rife with various inaccuracies, especially financially-motivated misinformation and equivocation.
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    I am not a huge fan of statins for several reasons but working in health care, involved in PI & audits, I can say the large majority of patients with even modest elevations in cholesterol over 35 years of age and I am talking about levels you and I would not even bat an eye to, are on statins prescribed by there PCP. There usage is abused significantly.

    I got hooked on bergamonte from Heart Help and found it to be highly effective with a very significant impact on HDL elevation which statins never did for me. With heart help no longer available, I just buy NOWs version or something similar.

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    Originally Posted by XCriticalBenchX View Post
    I am not a huge fan of statins for several reasons but working in health care, involved in PI & audits, I can say the large majority of patients with even modest elevations in cholesterol over 35 years of age and I am talking about levels you and I would not even bat an eye to, are on statins prescribed by there PCP. There usage is abused significantly.

    I got hooked on bergamonte from Heart Help and found it to be highly effective with a very significant impact on HDL elevation which statins never did for me. With heart help no longer available, I just buy NOWs version or something similar.

    Mike
    Due to the nature of their pleotropic effects, it would be extremely stupid not to use them as vastly as we do (especially considering the cost, minus Crestor unless insurance covers it) since they are beneficial in multiple disease states (CVD, obesity, diabetes, dyslipidemia). Read the guidelines.

    As always, the risk vs. benefit is weighed by the physician using their clinical judgement, and the benefit outweighs the risk in almost all patients.
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    Originally Posted by rNursejitsu View Post
    thanks in advance...

    other than fish oil ... and niacin... what else is there?!?

    Statins as your doctor recommends..... Or a stroke... NBD
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    Originally Posted by TMac26 View Post
    The side effects of Statins can be worse than having high cholesterol depending on how "high" it really is.


    My dad had a heart attack and had complete blockage in one artery and they had to bypass it. His doctor won't even consider Statins until he literally tries everything else.


    He currently takes Fish Oil (super high quality one), Capros and something else. All recommended by his doctor BEFORE going to Statins.
    What side effects. I can honestly say I have not noticed any. My cholesterol levels are super low now even while on T.
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