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  1. #8281
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    Originally Posted by Junsuiakai View Post
    you have ab veins but still look soft. 12% sounds accurate. The goat bf%

    Great job bro! Any lower and you'll get more ab veins and more of a grainy look but itll be a battle. You can continue to cut or bulk. The world is your oyster.
    Thank you! Now that summer is gone, maybe I'll add another 200-300 cals and see what happens.
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  2. #8282
    Registered User RapidFail's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Because it doesn't matter WHERE the bodyfat is... we're talking about total body fat.

    If someone has a blurry 2-pack but it's completely even, and another person has a 4-pack but a massive mound of fat on their lower abs, I don't SUBTRACT the massive mound of fat...
    Fair enough - I just don't see that 'massive mound of fat'. I don't think anyone was suggesting that disproportionate fat distribution be discounted, rather included as part of the total.

    For example, a guy could have zero ab definition and a midsection that looks about 20% bodyfat, yet have relatively lean, muscular-looking legs, arms and chest that are more indicative of sub 15% bodyfat. His actual bodyfat isn't going to be 20% or 14%, it's going to fall somewhere between the numbers, maybe 17%.
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  3. #8283
    Registered User Luclin999's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RapidFail View Post
    Fair enough - I just don't see that 'massive mound of fat'. I don't think anyone was suggesting that disproportionate fat distribution be discounted, rather included as part of the total.

    For example, a guy could have zero ab definition and a midsection that looks about 20% bodyfat, yet have relatively lean, muscular-looking legs, arms and chest that are more indicative of sub 15% bodyfat. His actual bodyfat isn't going to be 20% or 14%, it's going to fall somewhere between the numbers, maybe 17%.

    That same reasoning is why I consider myself to be at about 12% currently even though I still have obvious love handles/lower back fat.



    My upper torso and arms look like someone that would normally be at the 10% range, my legs look to be from someone at "12%" and my lower back from someone at the 16-17% range. but since my lower back is such a relatively small portion of my overall frame, IMO at least I feel like I'm about 12% when considered overall.
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  4. #8284
    Above average Junsuiakai's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Luclin999 View Post
    That same reasoning is why I consider myself to be at about 12% currently even though I still have obvious love handles/lower back fat.



    My upper torso and arms look like someone that would normally be at the 10% range, my legs look to be from someone at "12%" and my lower back from someone at the 16-17% range. but since my lower back is such a relatively small portion of my overall frame, IMO at least I feel like I'm about 12% when considered overall.
    you are older too. But when I hit around 10% my love handles started to drop rapidly so maybe losing another few lbs would get rid of them.

    Also dont wear tight waisted shorts wear them lower so that fat will just fall.
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  5. #8285
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RapidFail View Post
    Fair enough - I just don't see that 'massive mound of fat'. I don't think anyone was suggesting that disproportionate fat distribution be discounted, rather included as part of the total.

    For example, a guy could have zero ab definition and a midsection that looks about 20% bodyfat, yet have relatively lean, muscular-looking legs, arms and chest that are more indicative of sub 15% bodyfat. His actual bodyfat isn't going to be 20% or 14%, it's going to fall somewhere between the numbers, maybe 17%.
    This is kind of why I think the discussion around %'s is kind of useless...

    There's so much individual variability, really we should just look at things as a range.. either you're in a position to cut, or you're in a position to gain...

    The in-between might be someone around 15% who looks great at the beach, but isn't as defined as they could be... so you could do either.. slow gain, or cut a little and gain from there.
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  6. #8286
    Registered User Luclin999's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Junsuiakai View Post
    you are older too. But when I hit around 10% my love handles started to drop rapidly so maybe losing another few lbs would get rid of them.
    That is the plan, to see what happens with them when I drop to sub-155.
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  7. #8287
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mateo217 View Post
    Its been a few months since last check. I estimate about 12%. New pics in gallery. One flexed, one relaxed side and relaxed front.

    40 years old
    155 lbs
    5'8"

    Thanks in advance.
    Damn dude you look different in like every one of those pictures..... did you photoshop in a tan or something?
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  8. #8288
    Registered User RapidFail's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    This is kind of why I think the discussion around %'s is kind of useless...

    There's so much individual variability, really we should just look at things as a range.. either you're in a position to cut, or you're in a position to gain...

    The in-between might be someone around 15% who looks great at the beach, but isn't as defined as they could be... so you could do either.. slow gain, or cut a little and gain from there.
    Agreed, I just thought based on the other thread that perhaps you high-balled bodyfat estimates in general, but seeing your posts here I can see that is not the case.
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    Registered User RapidFail's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Luclin999 View Post
    That same reasoning is why I consider myself to be at about 12% currently even though I still have obvious love handles/lower back fat.



    My upper torso and arms look like someone that would normally be at the 10% range, my legs look to be from someone at "12%" and my lower back from someone at the 16-17% range. but since my lower back is such a relatively small portion of my overall frame, IMO at least I feel like I'm about 12% when considered overall.
    Some of that looks to be loose skin too - I would agree with your 12% assessment. Not sure you have much to gain by cutting further - I would definitely lean bulk in your situation.
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  10. #8290
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RapidFail View Post
    Agreed, I just thought based on the other thread that perhaps you high-balled bodyfat estimates in general, but seeing your posts here I can see that is not the case.
    I did also make some assumptions based on the one person you were thinking I high-balled, and it was actually based on seeing the lower back/love handles in his photos, as well as the need for him to pull his skin down to see abs.

    Oddly enough, many many people who are 10% don’t see much an definition at all without flexing to some degree... that’s largely just muscle insertions and structure. Mine don’t show that much unless I slightly tense, but if you pinch my skin it’s very thin, so it can be misleading in either direction really. Some people look higher in BF than they are, some people can create the illusion of lower fat, etc.
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  11. #8291
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    Originally Posted by RapidFail View Post
    Some of that looks to be loose skin too - I would agree with your 12% assessment. Not sure you have much to gain by cutting further - I would definitely lean bulk in your situation.
    It's mostly a case of.. "I'm already down to sub-160 lb., so I might as well drop about five more just to see if the lower back fat will finally come off".

    I mean at this point, it would be kind of like having run a full marathon but then quitting and going home half a mile from the finish line.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Damn dude you look different in like every one of those pictures..... did you photoshop in a tan or something?
    Ha ha nope. Probably just different lighting I guess. They are all me, lol.. Just the normal "photo" setting on my phone. I don't have photoshop nor would I know what to do with it if I had it.

    Did you have an estimate by chance?
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    Originally Posted by Mateo217 View Post
    Ha ha nope. Probably just different lighting I guess. They are all me, lol.. Just the normal "photo" setting on my phone. I don't have photoshop nor would I know what to do with it if I had it.

    Did you have an estimate by chance?

    I mean in a couple you look around 10... others look around 12... it’s like two different people...
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    Above average Junsuiakai's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Luclin999 View Post
    It's mostly a case of.. "I'm already down to sub-160 lb., so I might as well drop about five more just to see if the lower back fat will finally come off".

    I mean at this point, it would be kind of like having run a full marathon but then quitting and going home half a mile from the finish line.
    Just becareful. That transition to sub 10% is mind blowing. You seriously struggle to function as well. It was a big shock. I binged sad to say the last week just felt like I had no control but back in control now. I dont ever want to cut that low again lol
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    I don't go to the gym anymore so above stats are useless.

    Only do weighted calastentics in the comfort of my own home!

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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    I mean in a couple you look around 10... others look around 12... it’s like two different people...
    Yea ab veins = at least 10ish or lower imo as a general rule & the ones with good lighting & a tan look about 10. The other photos look like a different dude entirely with less mass even who'se about 12% lol
    Originally Posted by Junsuiakai View Post
    Just becareful. That transition to sub 10% is mind blowing. You seriously struggle to function as well. It was a big shock. I binged sad to say the last week just felt like I had no control but back in control now. I dont ever want to cut that low again lol
    Sustaining anything below 9-10% is Hell. Say goodbye to your sex drive, sleep, gains, motivation, energy, ability to concentrate on anything but food, & any hope of either a stable body temperature or mood on a daily basis.
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  16. #8296
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Strawng View Post
    Yea ab veins = at least 10ish or lower imo as a general rule & the ones with good lighting & a tan look about 10. The other photos look like a different dude entirely with less mass even who'se about 12% lol

    Sustaining anything below 9-10% is Hell. Say goodbye to your sex drive, sleep, gains, motivation, energy, ability to concentrate on anything but food, & any hope of either a stable body temperature or mood on a daily basis.
    The other day I found these pictures I took of myself at my worst... and my god... it was 20lb or so ago and I honestly don’t know how I’m alive...

    And it was only like... 10-11 months ago... it’s crazy how much visible change it made... im talking just skin stretched over flesh and bone...

    Was actually a good reminder why I’m doing what I’m doing now. Never will I ever go back to that.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    The other day I found these pictures I took of myself at my worst... and my god... it was 20lb or so ago and I honestly don’t know how I’m alive...

    And it was only like... 10-11 months ago... it’s crazy how much visible change it made... im talking just skin stretched over flesh and bone...

    Was actually a good reminder why I’m doing what I’m doing now. Never will I ever go back to that.
    Good for you for seeing that and making it a positive experience. Some ppl struggle with that.

    Looking at my pics again and pay no attention to the "tan" ones. Those are flexed and in my basement with downward lighting. Though they do make me look bigger, the bathroom mirror ones are more accurate representation. Still pretty soft and scrawny lol. Working on it though!

    At 163 today after a cheat weekend and deload. Definitely no longer 10-12%.
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    Originally Posted by Mateo217 View Post
    Good for you for seeing that and making it a positive experience. Some ppl struggle with that.

    Looking at my pics again and pay no attention to the "tan" ones. Those are flexed and in my basement with downward lighting. Though they do make me look bigger, the bathroom mirror ones are more accurate representation. Still pretty soft and scrawny lol. Working on it though!

    At 163 today after a cheat weekend and deload. Definitely no longer 10-12%.
    One weekend in a surplus isn’t going to cause some crazy change in bodyfat.... unless you ate like 10,000+ calories for two days each And even then you’d just look puffy from all the water/carbs/food mass

    You don’t look ‘soft’
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    Originally Posted by Strawng View Post
    Yea ab veins = at least 10ish or lower imo as a general rule & the ones with good lighting & a tan look about 10. The other photos look like a different dude entirely with less mass even who'se about 12% lol
    All about the lighting, lol. Which is why I enclosed the frontal bathroom lighting not flexed. That's a more accurate representation. Those basement "tan" pics are flexed after a workout.

    Thanks for looking!
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    Hello new here and never had my BF measured so wanted to get an idea of where im starting to set goals accordingly. Also garbage at embedding photos on forums. Thanks!

    183cm
    86kg
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    Registered User Mateo217's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kgriffith720 View Post
    Hello new here and never had my BF measured so wanted to get an idea of where im starting to set goals accordingly. Also garbage at embedding photos on forums. Thanks!

    183cm
    86kg
    I would estimate 20% on the low side. Probably closer to 23%
    Last edited by Mateo217; 10-24-2020 at 03:23 PM.
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    Registered User rugbypeach's Avatar
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    26yo
    5'7"
    155 lbs
    BF according to my bathroom scale - which uses "bioelectrical impedance" - is 17.5%.
    Photo taken relaxed no flexing.
    Looking for another estimation approach besides my scale.
    Best,
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    Originally Posted by rugbypeach View Post
    26yo
    5'7"
    155 lbs
    BF according to my bathroom scale - which uses "bioelectrical impedance" - is 17.5%.
    Photo taken relaxed no flexing.
    Looking for another estimation approach besides my scale.
    Best,
    I would estimate 19-20%
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    Registered User rugbypeach's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mateo217 View Post
    I would estimate 19-20%
    Thanks Mateo, any idea what the discrepancy could be between that and my scale measurement? I just bought skin fold calipers btw gonna try that too
    Best,
    peaches
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    Originally Posted by rugbypeach View Post
    Thanks Mateo, any idea what the discrepancy could be between that and my scale measurement? I just bought skin fold calipers btw gonna try that too
    They just aren't accurate. I have a scale too and its close but I could have a big cheat weekend and gain 10lbs of water and it throws my scale out of whack by pounds of "fat."

    I have calipers too and when I use them on a 7 point spot test it says my bf% is WAY lower than what it really is.

    However, I suggest keeping track with your scale and calipers just as progress trackers. They might not be accurate but your loss or gain will be relative to when you started so something can be measured.

    Also recommend measuring body parts and using this forum once in a while for others to see pictures of you. You can use all these tools to get a better picture of where you stand. The longer you track, the better picture you will get.

    With all that said, it's still just an estimate and you'll never really know EXACTLY what your bf% is.

    Just keep working hard and keep looking in the mirror and take progress pics.

    I dunno what your goal is but you aren't too far away from visible abs! Good work!
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    Originally Posted by rugbypeach View Post
    Thanks Mateo, any idea what the discrepancy could be between that and my scale measurement? I just bought skin fold calipers btw gonna try that too
    Those scales base everything (other than weight) on the amount of resistance your body produces vs an oscillating current. Which is why they are not accurate.

    Mine has said that my BF percentage has dropped nearly 3% in one afternoon between readings taken before and after I went out bicycling in the summer heat (which is utterly ridiculous). Wet feet vs dry feet when stepping on them can also alter the numbers.

    As to calipers, don't put any real faith in your self-measurements either. Even people with years of experience using them still get it wrong.
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    Originally Posted by Luclin999 View Post
    Those scales base everything (other than weight) on the amount of resistance your body produces vs an oscillating current. Which is why they are not accurate.

    Mine has said that my BF percentage has dropped nearly 3% in one afternoon between readings taken before and after I went out bicycling in the summer heat (which is utterly ridiculous). Wet feet vs dry feet when stepping on them can also alter the numbers.

    As to calipers, don't put any real faith in your self-measurements either. Even people with years of experience using them still get it wrong.
    Makes sense. Would you agree with Mateo with what he talked about with relative estimates being the redeemable benefit of the calipers? (As opposed to this illusion that the tool measures the actual amount of fat on your body as a discreet number).
    Best,
    peaches
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    Originally Posted by Mateo217 View Post
    They just aren't accurate. I have a scale too and its close but I could have a big cheat weekend and gain 10lbs of water and it throws my scale out of whack by pounds of "fat."

    I have calipers too and when I use them on a 7 point spot test it says my bf% is WAY lower than what it really is.

    However, I suggest keeping track with your scale and calipers just as progress trackers. They might not be accurate but your loss or gain will be relative to when you started so something can be measured.

    Also recommend measuring body parts and using this forum once in a while for others to see pictures of you. You can use all these tools to get a better picture of where you stand. The longer you track, the better picture you will get.

    With all that said, it's still just an estimate and you'll never really know EXACTLY what your bf% is.

    Just keep working hard and keep looking in the mirror and take progress pics.

    I dunno what your goal is but you aren't too far away from visible abs! Good work!
    Thank you so much, glad I'm on the right track. My goal is to reduce my BF from current state to something ideal prior to a major bulking and strengh increase phase. My form isn't the best with many exercises and I don't love the way I look, so focusing on losing fat and homing in on better form..
    Best,
    peaches
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    Originally Posted by rugbypeach View Post
    Makes sense. Would you agree with Mateo with what he talked about with relative estimates being the redeemable benefit of the calipers? (As opposed to this illusion that the tool measures the actual amount of fat on your body as a discreet number).
    The biggest problem with calipers is actually in getting the consistency down.

    Just a small change in how much skin you are pinching, the location you are pinching or how much pressure you are applying with the calipers can alter the results.
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