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Thread: Seriously BB?

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    Seriously BB?

    Ok, so it's no secret that BB published some questionable articles, to be nice. But I would really like the person who wrote this gem to prove that she can get a big, bulky waist from weighted side bends:

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/content/...SM_FB_Training

    She didn't say anything about bulking vs cutting vs maintenance. But let's assume she meant bulking, I want to see it happen. Anyone really, go six months bulking, do a chit ton of those, cut back to previous weight, and tell me the massive gains you've made on your waist. -_-

    I don't think I've been this annoyed before, and I typically never comment on these articles no matter how annoyed I am. I think it's because this is the exact type of stupid chit that women come here fearing, and avoiding lifting/bulking for. It's a huge deterrent for many woman, we see it plenty.

    If you're new here, stumbled on this and are worried: the only way you'll get a big/bulky waist is by adding a bunch of fat.

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    Im glad you posted this. Im super new to lifting and exercising in general and I do weighted side bends. When I read this article I was concerned I was doing something wrong
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    It's definitely possible to hypertrophy your core. There are absolutely people with thick waists who have six-packs and Christmas tree backs. Going to take a lot more than weighted side bends to do that though lol.

    That said, I don't really like weighted side bends anyway. They're not inherently bad on their own, but I often see people kind of bending forward slightly while they do them because they're holding the weight weird (which also causes some rotation), and that forward flexion + lateral flexion with some rotation in there, while adding compression since you're holding a weight, is the position where disc herniations are most common. The obliques do more than just laterally flex the body...if you really want to do core isolation, the ab wheel and push-ups have high activation of both the internal and external obliques, and the hanging leg raise will hit the external obliques.
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    Originally Posted by VO2Maxima View Post
    It's definitely possible to hypertrophy your core to the point you have a "bulky" waist that's not fat. There are absolutely people with thick waists who have six-packs and Christmas tree backs. Going to take a lot more than weighted side bends to do that though lol.
    It's not possible to change your whole body shape though (like going from hourglass to ruler/straight shape from it), and I'm sure some of those people start with a naturally straighter waist, or manage to have imbalanced training (high volume core day x3 a week or some chit). Mine's naturally small (compared to the rest of me), my chest is a bit bigger, my hips are much bigger. Doing those isn't likely to create a straight line from the bottom of my chest to my hips, i.e. make me "lose" my waist. Maybe make my waist a bit bigger all around, but the smallest point would still be small compared to the rest of my shape (given balanced training with everything else). Like you said though, a female doing a few of those a week growing obliques the way she would quads or delts is unlikely. Even just doing some core work in general.

    The article kinda made it sound (to me) like "do these and you'll have a disproportionately thick waist, and lose your body shape." Heck, no woman's going to get a bulky anything without the calories to support it, but the article doesn't mention that either, or the time it takes women to build muscle in general. I agree there's better options though.
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    Originally Posted by LunaLifts View Post
    It's not possible to change your whole body shape though (like going from hourglass to ruler/straight shape from it), and I'm sure some of those people start with a naturally straighter waist, or manage to have imbalanced training (high volume core day x3 a week or some chit). Mine's naturally small (compared to the rest of me), my chest is a bit bigger, my hips are much bigger. Doing those isn't likely to create a straight line from the bottom of my chest to my hips, i.e. make me "lose" my waist. Maybe make my waist a bit bigger all around, but the smallest point would still be small compared to the rest of my shape (given balanced training with everything else). Like you said though, a female doing a few of those a week growing obliques the way she would quads or delts is unlikely. Even just doing some core work in general.

    The article kinda made it sound (to me) like "do these and you'll have a disproportionately thick waist, and lose your body shape." Heck, no woman's going to get a bulky anything without the calories to support it, but the article doesn't mention that either, or the time it takes women to build muscle in general. I agree there's better options though.
    Yeah of course you have to eat to support it. Abs are like any other muscle...you eat and train, and they'll grow. Eat enough and train enough, and they'll get thicker. Someone like Konstantin Konstantinovs is a good example of someone with a really thick (but well conditioned and not flabby) waist. Obviously he was blessed with the bone structure to support bear mode, but dude has also hypertrophied his core musculature beyond belief.

    Honestly I'm not sure whether you can change your body shape...I mean you can't fight muscle insertions, for example. But your proportions are certainly influenced by the type of training you're doing (and you can keep it "balanced" and still structure it a million ways). You won't "lose" your waist, but the ratio and proportions could change.

    IMO the part where the article goes off the rails is suggesting that bodyweight exercises will "whittle" the waist whereas weighted exercises will put on mass. You eat to support it and do enough, and they'll all put on mass.
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    Originally Posted by VO2Maxima View Post
    Yeah of course you have to eat to support it. Abs are like any other muscle...you eat and train, and they'll grow. Eat enough and train enough, and they'll get thicker. Someone like Konstantin Konstantinovs is a good example of someone with a really thick (but well conditioned and not flabby) waist. Obviously he was blessed with the bone structure to support bear mode, but dude has also hypertrophied his core musculature beyond belief.

    Honestly I'm not sure whether you can change your body shape...I mean you can't fight muscle insertions, for example. But your proportions are certainly influenced by the type of training you're doing (and you can keep it "balanced" and still structure it a million ways). You won't "lose" your waist, but the ratio and proportions could change.

    IMO the part where the article goes off the rails is suggesting that bodyweight exercises will "whittle" the waist whereas weighted exercises will put on mass. You eat to support it and do enough, and they'll all put on mass.
    I see what you mean with Konstantin, but this article is focused directly at women, who are far less likely to get a waist/make waist gains to that extent.

    I agree, that you can change your overall shape by building certain areas. But body shape in terms of pear, apple, straight, and hourglass are usually determined by just three measurements: chest, waist, hips. From what I've noticed people in people who've lost weight or transformed, they still have the same general shape int hat regard, it just may be less "extreme." Like if I lose my saddlebags, I won't look as pear shaped, but my waist,and chest will still be smaller, and my hips are still wider (as far as bone structure, Idon't see that changing." The ratio may not be the exact same, and I'll lose in the chest, and waist too, I'll just be less obviously pear shaped, if that makes sense. If I build up lats and shoulders I may look more hourglass, but the measurements that "count" toward body shape will always be pear. Unless someone had a different experience they'd like to share where they managed to change the ratio of those measurements enough to be a different body shape (assuming they knew the measurements and ratio from the start).

    Then again, a big booty can add to hip measurements, so maybe someone could grow that enough, to change their measurements, and ratio, and "become" pear shaped.

    And I agree, the whittle your waist crap needs to stop. Unless you get a rib removed, or lose fat, your waist won't shrink.
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    Originally Posted by VO2Maxima View Post
    IMO the part where the article goes off the rails is suggesting that bodyweight exercises will "whittle" the waist whereas weighted exercises will put on mass.

    Well now, doesn't that all depend on the bodyweight exercises you are doing? LOL
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    I have people who tell me all the time to stop lifting heavy weights if I want a smaller physique. I don't know how many times I have to say that I cannot get "bulky" without excess calories and as a woman, it takes a long time for me to build mass--if I'm eating enough to build in the first place.
    I naturally have large arms and broad shoulders, and yes, I'd like a more "svelte" appearance, but that is in losing the fat over the muscle. I really believe that there is a constant struggle to keep as many women out of the weight room as possible.
    But I love lifting heavy and there's nothing that makes me feel better about myself than picking up something heavier than I did before.
    But... yeah... Losing some more fat would be nice
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    So what I should do is weighted side bends? Got it.



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    I saw this article and was like whatever. Weighted side bends are not my fav, but ya know, if they are your fav and you feel they benefit your goals then do them.

    Personally, I'm a bigger fan of rotational movements for the obliques as well as choppers, roll outs and hanging leg raises. And they have been in my programming the last few months too. I also get a lot of other ab work done through pilates/yoga, which I feel gives strength but doesn't necessarily build. We usually don't see many yogis or pilates peeps who have bodybuilding levels of muscle (but I also concede that they usually have a different diet as well).

    BB.com always has questionable articles, its more rare to find actual good info and most of that is geared to the guys. I found a couple of good articles the other day and then I was going through layne Norton's article on prepping not long ago after he referenced it on FB.
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/content/...teach-you.html
    http://www.bodybuilding.com/content/...SM_FB_Training

    These 2 were good I thought. I just wish they would do more good info like it for the females. I get they try to do more mainstream stuff to appeal to more people but I feel like they spread more junk info to the females.
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    Originally Posted by rockangel View Post
    BB.com always has questionable articles, its more rare to find actual good info and most of that is geared to the guys.

    These 2 were good I thought. I just wish they would do more good info like it for the females. I get they try to do more mainstream stuff to appeal to more people but I feel like they spread more junk info to the females.
    I agree, out of helpful articles more of what's been useful seems guy oriented. Same sort of gender-based marketing that comes up a lot in the fitness industry, and on the internet. Unfortunately, how many people look at the picture to judge the article? "Well it's a chick, so this is probably chick stuff." or "This is a guy, I don't want to be that big." Maybe more photos without people, or people of both genders to say "hey this is for anyone!" would help.

    Thanks for sharing those. Maybe we need a thread just for sharing and discussing the articles we find useful, while debunking some of the articles that lack needed clarification, or outright correction. lol.
    Then again it's the people who don't use the forums who'd need that the most.
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    Originally Posted by LunaLifts View Post
    Maybe more photos without people, or people of both genders to say "hey this is for anyone!" would help.

    I'm for more photos without people. I've seen people try to sell their supplement line to both genders. They'll have a guy that is completely jacked saying these are the results you will receive if you take this supplement. Then they'll post a pic of a woman that is fairly soft...even for bikini (you know...the toned, not muscly build). Now I completely understand that the supplement company is pandering to what is popular in an effort to sell their product...but IDK...to me, they basically just outed their product as being completely useless. Cause damn, why as a female lifter would I take a product that is going to make me look softer when I want to get more jacked?
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    Originally Posted by Artemis00 View Post
    Cause damn, why as a female lifter would I take a product that is going to make me look softer when I want to get more jacked?
    Right? It's bodybuilding.com, you'd think they'd realize most women coming to a bodybuilding site want to build some muscle. Most of the women who want to shed a little fat or "tone up" are going to use general weight loss sites, or do the crappy workouts they find on pinterest, or magazines.
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    I don't think anything except long term powerlifting really thickens your waist, especially women
    Unless maybe your constantly hammering heavily weighted ab exercises idk
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    Originally Posted by melDorado View Post
    I don't think anything except long term powerlifting really thickens your waist, especially women
    Unless maybe your constantly hammering heavily weighted ab exercises idk
    what do you think it is about powerlifting that thickens the waist? is it the core bracing for heavy lifts?? or just the nature of squats/deads that will do it?
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    I know its on T-nation, but Bret wrote it so its more legit
    https://www.t-nation.com/training/is...g-you-look-fat

    He states, "The real culprit? High frequency, high-load abdominal and oblique training." So it looks like the frequency and load may be more of an issue than just the exercise.
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  17. #17
    Jerk of All Trades LunaLifts's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by melDorado View Post
    I don't think anything except long term powerlifting really thickens your waist, especially women
    Unless maybe your constantly hammering heavily weighted ab exercises idk
    Yeah I've noticed more PLers with that build than bodybuilders, or general lifters.
    A lot of core bracing, especially with the addition of a belt.
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  18. #18
    Dragon Flag Goddess Artemis00's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LunaLifts View Post
    Yeah I've noticed more PLers with that build than bodybuilders, or general lifters.
    A lot of core bracing, especially with the addition of a belt.
    I've always noticed it more with some of the cross fit women. But I kind of assumed that may have been related to point number 2 that Bret makes in that article.
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  19. #19
    Registered User fitfanatic123's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rockangel View Post
    I know its on T-nation, but Bret wrote it so its more legit
    https://www.t-nation.com/training/is...g-you-look-fat

    He states, "The real culprit? High frequency, high-load abdominal and oblique training." So it looks like the frequency and load may be more of an issue than just the exercise.
    thanks for posting. i'm surprised by all of the ab exercises he lists which could lead to a blocky waist. interesting!
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  20. #20
    Grrrrrrrrrr! mtnliones5's Avatar
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    So if I WANT to look more "blocky" I should do these?? I actually like the narrower hip look better than having wide, boxy hips like I do. It's probably more due to a bodyfat issue than just having wide hips though. I think the narrower hips with a wider waist looks more athletic and appealing to me personally. But we all want what we don't have.
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  21. #21
    old woman melDorado's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by fitfanatic123 View Post
    what do you think it is about powerlifting that thickens the waist? is it the core bracing for heavy lifts?? or just the nature of squats/deads that will do it?
    The low bar squat and deadlift are very taxing on the lower back. The lower back hypertrophys due to this. Thicker back = thicker waist. That's just my guess. I don't know rly
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  22. #22
    Assuming I woke up itsagoodday's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by melDorado View Post
    I don't think anything except long term powerlifting really thickens your waist, especially women
    Unless maybe your constantly hammering heavily weighted ab exercises idk
    Originally Posted by LunaLifts View Post
    Yeah I've noticed more PLers with that build than bodybuilders, or general lifters.
    A lot of core bracing, especially with the addition of a belt.
    Eh, I don't think powerlifting itself thickens the waist. I'd say there are three factors that make female powerlifters appear to have thicker waists than female bodybuilders.

    1) Fat. I'm not saying there aren't lean female powerlifters out there, because there definitely are, but the majority of them will be carrying around at least some degree of belly fat. Being lean enough to have abs and a chiseled waist is NOT an advantage in powerlifting, so you're not going to see it that often.

    2) Not training like a bodybuilder. If you want the bodybuilder "X" shape with nice, big shoulders that make your waist look narrower, you need to train like one. Most powerlifters aren't going to put a ton of (or any) effort into high rep isolation exercises.

    Originally Posted by Artemis00 View Post
    I've always noticed it more with some of the cross fit women. But I kind of assumed that may have been related to point number 2 that Bret makes in that article.
    3) ^ This. Again, plenty of natty female powerlifters out there, but the biggest / thickest women who do powerlifting are either carrying around a high degree of body fat, are not natty, or are some combination of the two.
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