View Poll Results: Bcaas or casein for a cut

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  • Bcaas

    6 54.55%
  • Casein

    5 45.45%
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  1. #1
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    Casein or Bcaas for cutting?

    I'm starting my first cut really soon and was wondering which is better to preserve muscle mass knowing that I'm also taking c4 prewoekout whey and glutamine postworkout.
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    It's more important to get an adequate amount of protein and calories to mitigate any potential loss. If cutting, bumping up protein to maybe 1.2-1.5 g/lb would assist along with ensuring your cut is no more than 10-20% deducting from maintenance. Bcaas would be marginally effective and really only if you're not getting enough protein, which defeats the whole point of proper dieting.

    Casein is just a type of protein, nothing more or less.

    Drop the glutamine by the way. It's abundant in a proper diet.
    Your nutrition and workout program determines your success.
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    Originally Posted by OT2000 View Post
    It's more important to get an adequate amount of protein and calories to mitigate any potential loss. If cutting, bumping up protein to maybe 1.2-1.5 g/lb would assist along with ensuring your cut is no more than 10-20% deducting from maintenance. Bcaas would be marginally effective and really only if you're not getting enough protein, which defeats the whole point of proper dieting.

    Casein is just a type of protein, nothing more or less.

    Drop the glutamine by the way. It's abundant in a proper diet.
    Increasing protein helps preserve muscle mass. Studies show that up to a 20% decrease in calories help to preserve muscle mass while decreasing body fat.

    BCAA has been show to help preserve muscle mass when cutting. Casein has also be shown to preserve muscle mass in cutting. That because casein is the anti-catabolic, time released protein. It takes about 5 hours to complete digest. So, casein continue to feed your muscle long afterward.

    Gluatamine is a recover amino acid. It is used in hospitals to help other heal faster. It works the same for hard training.

    Glutamine is the abundant in most people's diet.
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  4. #4
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    Originally Posted by OT2000 View Post
    It's more important to get an adequate amount of protein and calories to mitigate any potential loss. If cutting, bumping up protein to maybe 1.2-1.5 g/lb would assist along with ensuring your cut is no more than 10-20% deducting from maintenance. Bcaas would be marginally effective and really only if you're not getting enough protein, which defeats the whole point of proper dieting.

    Casein is just a type of protein, nothing more or less.

    Drop the glutamine by the way. It's abundant in a proper diet.
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    You could increase your protein intake slightly to 1.2-1.5g/lbs of body weight in order to keep a positive nitrogen balance
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    Originally Posted by JoeTinpan View Post
    This. Lots and lots of truths here
    As well as some fallacies.
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    Originally Posted by Turtle333 View Post
    As well as some fallacies.
    Feel free to provide which ones and facts behind it.
    Your nutrition and workout program determines your success.
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    Originally Posted by OT2000 View Post
    Feel free to provide which ones and facts behind it.
    I don't have enough post to be able to provide that information.

    The studies are out there.

    Feel free to look it up and post the fact you have.
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    Grab any good protein (whey, casein, etc) that fits your needs the best and apply it towards reaching your daily macros.

    I'm personally a fan of BCAA's because I like to sip them throughout the day while I'm fasted, but you probably don't need them.

    I'd stick to a good protein, creatine, multi, and fish oil for now and make sure your diet/training is in check first before adding anything else.
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    Originally Posted by Turtle333 View Post
    I don't have enough post to be able to provide that information.

    The studies are out there.

    Feel free to look it up and post the fact you have.
    Lol I forgot post count matters in providing facts. Good day man
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    Originally Posted by OT2000 View Post
    It's more important to get an adequate amount of protein and calories to mitigate any potential loss. If cutting, bumping up protein to maybe 1.2-1.5 g/lb would assist along with ensuring your cut is no more than 10-20% deducting from maintenance. Bcaas would be marginally effective and really only if you're not getting enough protein, which defeats the whole point of proper dieting.

    Casein is just a type of protein, nothing more or less.

    Drop the glutamine by the way. It's abundant in a proper diet.
    A mix of different protein work best. Whey is a fast protein. Whey get into your system in 20 to 60 minutes.

    Egg protein is an intermediate digested protein. It get into your system between 2 - 4 hours.

    Casein is a slow digested protein, is digested between 4 - 6 hour.

    BENEFITS

    It's slow to digest, clots in the stomach, and appears to be anti-catabolic due to this effect.

    DISADVANTAGES

    Slow digestion can be a negative before or after training when you are trying to get amino acids into the system quickly.

    RECOMMENDATIONS

    It should be used at meals (can be combined with other proteins) and at bedtime.

    That from Casein Or Whey? Benefits & Disadvantages Everyone Should Know! That from this website.
    By Jamie Hale
    Feb 06, 2017

    Combing a fast, intermediate and slow just starts the recovery process and keep it going, which is what you want.

    Whether you are getting enough glutamine depends on how hard you are training. You may be getting enough in your diet or not.

    BCAA are marginal depending on your protein intake.
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    Blends have been proven to be superior to whey alone.



    Don't waste money on casein. Its not needed. Your stomach will empty the contents whether its digested or not, hence why casein is not needed. Its good for making pudding, but do not think its "time released", that is not the case at all. It gels into a giant glob inside you stomach when it hits acid, and that glob leaves regardless.


    All protein is used the same way, but blends are best.
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    Neither are needed for cutting. Cutting is all about your diet for getting results. I use BCAA's year round, not just during cuts intra workout. Casein would only be benefitial in regards to making you feel full longer than a regular protein shake because it digests slower. So if hunger levels are a concern, caseins might help with satiety. However won't make any difference in results.
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    Originally Posted by Turtle333 View Post
    I don't have enough post to be able to provide that information.

    The studies are out there.

    Feel free to look it up and post the fact you have.
    Just lol.
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    I do take about 1.3 g of protein per pound so I think I'll just go with casein and take it at night as it fits with my macros , also both whey and casein contain decent amounts of Bcaas so i think taking them would be unnecessary right?
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    Originally Posted by XxAhmedAxX View Post
    I'm starting my first cut really soon and was wondering which is better to preserve muscle mass knowing that I'm also taking c4 prewoekout whey and glutamine postworkout.
    BCAAs are a waste of money if you consume the right foods. For example, whey, casein, eggs, beef, chicken, and other quality protein sources are already very high in BCAA's. So to answer your poll question, Casein all the way because it will have BCAA's in it.
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    Originally Posted by TMac26 View Post
    Blends have been proven to be superior to whey alone.



    Don't waste money on casein. Its not needed. Your stomach will empty the contents whether its digested or not, hence why casein is not needed. Its good for making pudding, but do not think its "time released", that is not the case at all. It gels into a giant glob inside you stomach when it hits acid, and that glob leaves regardless.


    All protein is used the same way, but blends are best.
    Yes, blends as I said in my post is the way to do. A good blend should include whey and casein, like milk.

    That glod is slowly digested, trickling into you system. Whey on the other hand, leaves you system in 20 to 60 minutes.

    Casein isn't a waste it a good investment. Casein is "time released" because it form a gel in your stomach. like you said.

    It slows down the digestion time, talking 4 - 6 hour to digest. That is why it considered a "time released" protein. That is why it is recommended you take it before going to bed.

    Sleeping for 8 hour amount to fasting for 8 hours. When you take casein before bed, it trickles into your system in a "time released" way.

    Proteins have different digestion times like carbohydrates and fats.

    High glycemic index carbohydrates get in and out of your system quickly. Low glycemic index foods that have fiber (a glod) are "time released" in a way, taking longer to digest.

    Long chain fatty acids can take up to 9 hours to digest. They are "time released" in a way.

    Medium chain fatty acids like Medium Chain Triglycerides are quickly digested like whey protein. They get in and out of your system quickly.

    There plenty of online information on all of this.
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    Your stomach clears its contents within 4-5 hours.


    There is no such thing as 8 hour digestion.



    You have fallen into the "casein protein marketing trap"
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    Originally Posted by TMac26 View Post
    Your stomach clears its contents within 4-5 hours.


    There is no such thing as 8 hour digestion.



    You have fallen into the "casein protein marketing trap"
    You misread what I posted. Research shows that casein is digested time is between 4 - 6 hours.

    Research data has demonstrated that some fats can take up to 9 hour to digest.

    That information is in post #17.
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    Originally Posted by TMac26 View Post
    Your stomach clears its contents within 4-5 hours.


    There is no such thing as 8 hour digestion.



    You have fallen into the "casein protein marketing trap"
    What I found is from from nutritionist Dr John Berardi's site, "Casein takes longer to increase blood amino acids, but lasts longer, with elevated levels lasting over 300 minutes [3]." 300 minutes is 5 hours. The article is, "Fast vs. slow whey for protein synthesis."
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    Originally Posted by Turtle333 View Post
    What I found is from from nutritionist Dr John Berardi's site, "Casein takes longer to increase blood amino acids, but lasts longer, with elevated levels lasting over 300 minutes [3]." 300 minutes is 5 hours. The article is, "Fast vs. slow whey for protein synthesis."
    It's really irrelevant in the overall as casein elicits a smaller MPS response than whey. This is why a blend is far superior. Keep in mind, aminos are in constant circulation so slow digestion is really pointless.
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    Originally Posted by XxAhmedAxX View Post
    I do take about 1.3 g of protein per pound so I think I'll just go with casein and take it at night as it fits with my macros , also both whey and casein contain decent amounts of Bcaas so i think taking them would be unnecessary right?
    No need to time your protein intake at night or take extra BCAA's so long as you are hitting your daily goal. If you want to drink BCAA's, say during a workout thats fine, just keep in mind so long as you hit your protein goal they are not "needed" to meet a macro goal.
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    Originally Posted by XxAhmedAxX View Post
    I do take about 1.3 g of protein per pound so I think I'll just go with casein and take it at night as it fits with my macros , also both whey and casein contain decent amounts of Bcaas so i think taking them would be unnecessary right?
    Yes. If you already have whey, casein isn't necessary. Just use the powdered food to meet your macro regardless of type. In the context of a high protein diet of varied sources, protein is protein. You are also not going into a catabolic, muscle wasting state at night.

    If you're meeting your macro you're getting plenty of amino acids including leucine, isoleucine, valine and glutamine. No need to supplement free form aminos.

    And LOL at the "I don't have enough posts to support my claims" guy and seriously, I thought this casein BS was dying. Your body is always digesting stuff. Full digestion takes between 24 and 72 hours for whole foods. For protein sources, this means your body is constantly breaking down proteins into amino acids which means you'll always have a stream of aminos. Boosting it at magical times with powdered food isn't going to make a difference.
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    Originally Posted by OT2000 View Post
    It's really irrelevant in the overall as casein elicits a smaller MPS response than whey. This is why a blend is far superior. Keep in mind, aminos are in constant circulation so slow digestion is really pointless.
    Yes, a protein blend works the best. The best blend is a fast digested protein (Whey), a medium digested protein (like egg) and slow digest protein (like casein). Casein is important for the reason.

    Whey is referred to as the anabolic protein, casein as the anti-catabolic protein.

    A good article on this is Whey vs Casein: The Real Story.

    This the synoposis from the article.

    Here's what you need to know...

    Casein is generally a better muscle builder, a better strength builder, and a better fat burner than whey.

    The best thing about whey protein is that it contains a variety of proteins that bolster the immune system.

    Whey, in general, is simply a leftover product of making cheese, whereas casein isn't a leftover or byproduct; it comes directly from milk.

    Sophisticated caseins like micellar casein and casein hydrolysate, while costlier than whey or generic casein, are worth the extra money.

    For an all-around protein powder, a blend of whey and casein is best. For workout nutrition, casein hydrolysate reigns supreme.
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    1 supplement on a cut

    Originally Posted by XxAhmedAxX View Post
    I'm starting my first cut really soon and was wondering which is better to preserve muscle mass knowing that I'm also taking c4 prewoekout whey and glutamine postworkout.
    If I had to chose 1 BCAAS currently cutting rn and maintaining most of my lean gains. However i also use creatine and whey protein rn.
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    Originally Posted by XxAhmedAxX View Post
    I'm starting my first cut really soon and was wondering which is better to preserve muscle mass knowing that I'm also taking c4 prewoekout whey and glutamine postworkout.
    If you have trouble meeting your protein needs from whole foods, casein is what I would choose. Glutamine really doesn't have any purpose for bodybuilding if that is what you are using it for.
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    OP, casein is really just a preference for a protein source (others being whey, isolate, etc.). The sole purpose of a protein powder is to help you reach your protein goals for the day.

    If you are hitting your protein goals without the use of a powder, then a powder is not required.
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    Originally Posted by TMac26 View Post
    Oh Jesus Christ
    How are either of those guys still green? Serious overcomplication Batman.
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    Neither.
    You already have a whey protein, and I presume you're reaching your protein macros on a consistent basis.
    You might want to increase your protein macros a bit.

    Consensus?
    Buy more delicious meats.

    TREAT YOURSELF.
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