I'm starting my first cut really soon and was wondering which is better to preserve muscle mass knowing that I'm also taking c4 prewoekout whey and glutamine postworkout.
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View Poll Results: Bcaas or casein for a cut
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Thread: Casein or Bcaas for cutting?
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02-19-2017, 04:13 AM #1
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02-19-2017, 06:22 AM #2
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It's more important to get an adequate amount of protein and calories to mitigate any potential loss. If cutting, bumping up protein to maybe 1.2-1.5 g/lb would assist along with ensuring your cut is no more than 10-20% deducting from maintenance. Bcaas would be marginally effective and really only if you're not getting enough protein, which defeats the whole point of proper dieting.
Casein is just a type of protein, nothing more or less.
Drop the glutamine by the way. It's abundant in a proper diet.Your nutrition and workout program determines your success.
FL and NC crew. Lol @ living in PA. Just LOL.
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02-19-2017, 06:48 AM #3
Increasing protein helps preserve muscle mass. Studies show that up to a 20% decrease in calories help to preserve muscle mass while decreasing body fat.
BCAA has been show to help preserve muscle mass when cutting. Casein has also be shown to preserve muscle mass in cutting. That because casein is the anti-catabolic, time released protein. It takes about 5 hours to complete digest. So, casein continue to feed your muscle long afterward.
Gluatamine is a recover amino acid. It is used in hospitals to help other heal faster. It works the same for hard training.
Glutamine is the abundant in most people's diet.
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02-19-2017, 06:55 AM #4
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02-20-2017, 02:48 AM #5
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02-20-2017, 03:39 AM #6
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02-20-2017, 03:45 AM #7
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02-20-2017, 04:01 AM #8
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02-20-2017, 04:03 AM #9
Grab any good protein (whey, casein, etc) that fits your needs the best and apply it towards reaching your daily macros.
I'm personally a fan of BCAA's because I like to sip them throughout the day while I'm fasted, but you probably don't need them.
I'd stick to a good protein, creatine, multi, and fish oil for now and make sure your diet/training is in check first before adding anything else.~Veni Vidi Vici~
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02-20-2017, 04:21 AM #10
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02-20-2017, 04:32 AM #11
A mix of different protein work best. Whey is a fast protein. Whey get into your system in 20 to 60 minutes.
Egg protein is an intermediate digested protein. It get into your system between 2 - 4 hours.
Casein is a slow digested protein, is digested between 4 - 6 hour.
BENEFITS
It's slow to digest, clots in the stomach, and appears to be anti-catabolic due to this effect.
DISADVANTAGES
Slow digestion can be a negative before or after training when you are trying to get amino acids into the system quickly.
RECOMMENDATIONS
It should be used at meals (can be combined with other proteins) and at bedtime.
That from Casein Or Whey? Benefits & Disadvantages Everyone Should Know! That from this website.
By Jamie Hale
Feb 06, 2017
Combing a fast, intermediate and slow just starts the recovery process and keep it going, which is what you want.
Whether you are getting enough glutamine depends on how hard you are training. You may be getting enough in your diet or not.
BCAA are marginal depending on your protein intake.
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02-20-2017, 05:35 AM #12
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Blends have been proven to be superior to whey alone.
Don't waste money on casein. Its not needed. Your stomach will empty the contents whether its digested or not, hence why casein is not needed. Its good for making pudding, but do not think its "time released", that is not the case at all. It gels into a giant glob inside you stomach when it hits acid, and that glob leaves regardless.
All protein is used the same way, but blends are best.Krispy Kreme Krew Forever.
Disclaimer: The above post is my personal opinion and does not represent the official position of any company or entity.
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02-20-2017, 05:50 AM #13
Neither are needed for cutting. Cutting is all about your diet for getting results. I use BCAA's year round, not just during cuts intra workout. Casein would only be benefitial in regards to making you feel full longer than a regular protein shake because it digests slower. So if hunger levels are a concern, caseins might help with satiety. However won't make any difference in results.
Progressive overload + progressive eating = gains. Simple as that!
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02-20-2017, 05:59 AM #14
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02-20-2017, 10:34 AM #15
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02-20-2017, 12:23 PM #16
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02-21-2017, 04:32 AM #17
Yes, blends as I said in my post is the way to do. A good blend should include whey and casein, like milk.
That glod is slowly digested, trickling into you system. Whey on the other hand, leaves you system in 20 to 60 minutes.
Casein isn't a waste it a good investment. Casein is "time released" because it form a gel in your stomach. like you said.
It slows down the digestion time, talking 4 - 6 hour to digest. That is why it considered a "time released" protein. That is why it is recommended you take it before going to bed.
Sleeping for 8 hour amount to fasting for 8 hours. When you take casein before bed, it trickles into your system in a "time released" way.
Proteins have different digestion times like carbohydrates and fats.
High glycemic index carbohydrates get in and out of your system quickly. Low glycemic index foods that have fiber (a glod) are "time released" in a way, taking longer to digest.
Long chain fatty acids can take up to 9 hours to digest. They are "time released" in a way.
Medium chain fatty acids like Medium Chain Triglycerides are quickly digested like whey protein. They get in and out of your system quickly.
There plenty of online information on all of this.
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02-21-2017, 05:15 AM #18
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02-22-2017, 03:21 AM #19
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02-22-2017, 05:26 AM #20
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02-22-2017, 05:35 AM #21
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02-22-2017, 05:45 AM #22
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No need to time your protein intake at night or take extra BCAA's so long as you are hitting your daily goal. If you want to drink BCAA's, say during a workout thats fine, just keep in mind so long as you hit your protein goal they are not "needed" to meet a macro goal.
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Disclaimer: The above post is my personal opinion and does not represent the official position of any company or entity.
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02-22-2017, 08:24 AM #23
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Yes. If you already have whey, casein isn't necessary. Just use the powdered food to meet your macro regardless of type. In the context of a high protein diet of varied sources, protein is protein. You are also not going into a catabolic, muscle wasting state at night.
If you're meeting your macro you're getting plenty of amino acids including leucine, isoleucine, valine and glutamine. No need to supplement free form aminos.
And LOL at the "I don't have enough posts to support my claims" guy and seriously, I thought this casein BS was dying. Your body is always digesting stuff. Full digestion takes between 24 and 72 hours for whole foods. For protein sources, this means your body is constantly breaking down proteins into amino acids which means you'll always have a stream of aminos. Boosting it at magical times with powdered food isn't going to make a difference."I'm pretty sure your wrong, but care to elaborate..."
Retired account
TheFugitive, Manwittaplan, and ILPump are all the same guy...socktastic
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02-24-2017, 04:33 AM #24
Yes, a protein blend works the best. The best blend is a fast digested protein (Whey), a medium digested protein (like egg) and slow digest protein (like casein). Casein is important for the reason.
Whey is referred to as the anabolic protein, casein as the anti-catabolic protein.
A good article on this is Whey vs Casein: The Real Story.
This the synoposis from the article.
Here's what you need to know...
Casein is generally a better muscle builder, a better strength builder, and a better fat burner than whey.
The best thing about whey protein is that it contains a variety of proteins that bolster the immune system.
Whey, in general, is simply a leftover product of making cheese, whereas casein isn't a leftover or byproduct; it comes directly from milk.
Sophisticated caseins like micellar casein and casein hydrolysate, while costlier than whey or generic casein, are worth the extra money.
For an all-around protein powder, a blend of whey and casein is best. For workout nutrition, casein hydrolysate reigns supreme.
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02-24-2017, 04:56 AM #25
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02-24-2017, 05:38 AM #26
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02-24-2017, 06:26 AM #27
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02-24-2017, 07:12 AM #28
OP, casein is really just a preference for a protein source (others being whey, isolate, etc.). The sole purpose of a protein powder is to help you reach your protein goals for the day.
If you are hitting your protein goals without the use of a powder, then a powder is not required.Myprotein's Official Bodybuilding.com Lead Representative ✔
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02-24-2017, 11:47 AM #29
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02-24-2017, 08:26 PM #30
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