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  1. #751
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    No backlash man... just honest, heart-felt advice.

    To have ZERO sex drive at your age is a big, big red flag. I'm sure you know this, so I won't harp on it, but be aware your low fat intake and/or your low calorie intake is almost certainly to blame.

    It sounds like even on workout days you're still doing some variation of IF... IF is really not a good idea for people with ED's... again, I'm sure you know this... but I really want you to consider stopping this. It's a restrictive lifestyle/dietary approach altogether for almost everyone who chooses to eat that way.

    6-7 hours isn't horrible... I also wake up a lot during the night to pee... I blame the water content of my foods and my general hydration levels. The important thing is sleep quality.

    I guess when I say recover I just mean recovering from fatigue and/or soreness. Most people get SOME level of fatiguing from workouts even if they've been training a while, though it doesn't have to feel 'sore'... more of a sensation that you did exercise, etc.
    1. IF screws with your appetite and satiety signals. It also is HORMONALLY inferior to more "normal" ways of eating. People who IF'd in a recent study had jacked up blood work.
    2. You pee a lot at night because of cortisol peaking and being underweight, as well as water and food content. My bet is on the cortisol though.
    3. MosT has a chronically low fat intake. That is scary to me. I will elaborate more down below. Sounds too like most of the fats come from very poor sources.. you are certainly inflamed and highly deficient in fat soluble vitamins.

    Originally Posted by MosToorani View Post
    You've probably mentioned it like 10 times now haha! I just believe that your genetics + hyper-metabolism is superior compared to mine!

    Look, you are comparing yourself to others again. You have yet to stick to anything we suggest but you're going to say you have poor genetics? Give me a break..

    I'm always hungry. ALWAYS .. Whether it's rest day or workout day or whatever .. I'm always hungry after a normal meal unless I stuff my face and end it with protein fluff (to occupy space). That's why I eat lots of vegetables and volume-based foods.

    Did you know fat is crucial, ESPECIALLY FOR MEN, for not only hormones but long term diet satiety? What does this mean? Signals in your gut won't say you're "full" when you eat no fat. Fat slows the digestion of food and helps you feel full long term. EAT MORE FAT AND STOP PLAYING VICTIM. You are looking for every which way to justify your way of eating...

    What do you mean by "eat like a normal person"? You mean breakfast, lunch and dinner? I only save the majority of my calories towards the end of the day, dinner, to be full because I don't like going to bed hungry.

    So you IF, chronically undereat fat and calories, eat high-volume foods (abuse them), and you think it is weird you have satiety problems? Weird huh... this is like me saying "hey guys I cut off my arm at the elbow joint today, any reason why I won't stop bleeding???

    Mental recovery is so hard man.. That's why I can't trust my brain when it comes to food..

    You cannot trust your brain because you have not tried to recover. Recovery is hard. Embrace the suck because it is so satisfying going to bed knowing you OWNED that day.

    It's a long battle but it's worth it.

    It obviously is not worth it to you because you SAY you want to change, but have literally done NOTHING to change. You PM me looking for all the answers in the wrong places..

    MT
    Bolded responses above ^^^

    MT, I am going to say it one more time, then I can no longer help. Be self-responsible, realize what we are saying is to help you, and do not look for ways to play victim. All your posts are so woe-is-me and so obvious where your habits are wrong; you refuse to change them. I do not know what else to say.

    Eat your 3 biggest meals at breakfast, lunch and dinner. 1 small snack at night is all you get.
    Eat a NORMAL ratio of fats and carbs. No more abusing food volume.
    Do not ever eat alone.
    Build your life around things you love. Rekindle old passions. Call old friends. You are living to eat.
    Eat 3k calories a day and 80+ grams of fat from whole foods and oils and nuts. Your penis will thank me later.

    YOU ARE WORTH RECOVERY. Now change!
    Been playing with shafts and balls since '75.
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  2. #752
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sonnydfrizzy View Post
    Your penis will thank me later
    Lol'd IRL at this

    But I agree with everything else you said.

    The Fat intake in particular concerns me, too.

    Mos... I know this is just anecdote, but in my own experience having a good balance of fat AND carbs is critical to managing energy and hormones.

    When I'm on the golf course, for example, sometimes it doesn't matter how many bananas or how much gatorade I drink... the energy doesn't stay until I add fats. Hell, a couple weeks ago I brought a little Peanut Butter packet (like a 200-300 calorie packet, pre-packaged) with me when I was out there... and during the round I was munching on fruit and caramel rice cakes for a while. I didn't really feel any more energy... then I found the PB pouch and just downed the whole thing... felt much better within 10-15minutes.

    When you restrict fat intake for this long, you're going to be hugely deficient, like sonny said, on nutrients and hormones that would otherwise be stored in your fat cells. This is ESPECIALLY true if you lost most of your weight on a low-fat diet. Even your stored fat isn't as nutrient-dense as it could be (yes, that IS a thing... because adipose tissue is more than just fat... it's also vitamins and other stuff).

    While I will continue to be in this thread and provide any guidance I can... I have to again agree with sonny that what you're asking in terms of us helping you monitor your 'progress' on the scale defeats the whole purpose of your recovery. I cannot, in good conscience, help in a process that I simply do not agree with... I hope you can understand that.
    Last edited by AdamWW; 03-30-2017 at 09:40 AM.
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  3. #753
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Lol'd IRL at this
    Life with sex drive >>>> life without

    Sex drive for men is CRUCIAL in recovery and I am NOT EVEN KIDDING. The drive to be around people, and women (or men, whatever you're into) especially, can be the intrinsic motivation to change.

    Plus, when you realize women like someone outgoing, confident and portrays that alpha male (hint hint: muscles =/= women) you become more lax and build your worth elsewhere.
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  4. #754
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sonnydfrizzy View Post
    Life with sex drive >>>> life without

    Sex drive for men is CRUCIAL in recovery and I am NOT EVEN KIDDING. The drive to be around people, and women (or men, whatever you're into) especially, can be the intrinsic motivation to change.

    Plus, when you realize women like someone outgoing, confident and portrays that alpha male (hint hint: muscles =/= women) you become more lax and build your worth elsewhere.
    Oh believe me I know... having a sex-drive in my opinion extends WAY beyond just being able to get it up... it gives you confidence, it's a reflection of your energy levels, virility, etc... it gives you a sense of normality because I think we - as mammals - can sense when something is missing... when you see beautiful women (or men, depending what you're into) and you have zero reaction, somewhere deep down you KNOW something is off... it doesn't feel good. It's a huge part of NORMAL life.
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  5. #755
    Registered User MosToorani's Avatar
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    Okay .. Done ..

    I'm convinced.. Completely .. I'm done with this ..

    2,700 .. 70f, 175p, 342c ..starting tomorrow .. after 2 weeks, ill go to 3000 .. everyday .. every single day..

    again .. Thank you .. seriously guys .. thank you..

    I honestly don't know how else to thank you guys..

    is the above okay? or? i would certainly prefer a higher protein amount but ill stick to 175..
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  6. #756
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    Originally Posted by MosToorani View Post
    Okay .. Done ..

    I'm convinced.. Completely .. I'm done with this ..

    2,700 .. 70f, 175p, 342c ..starting tomorrow .. after 2 weeks, ill go to 3000 .. everyday .. every single day..

    again .. Thank you .. seriously guys .. thank you..

    I honestly don't know how else to thank you guys..

    is the above okay? or? i would certainly prefer a higher protein amount but ill stick to 175..
    Is this going to lead you to your end goal of normalizing your eating patterns and not needing to track calories?
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  7. #757
    Helpful brah Yafassihim's Avatar
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    I have an eating disorder, I eat for eating, not because I am hungry (although I also eat when hungry), but whenever I'm dieting, my willpower goes down so quickly. It is because I did alot of crash dieting. It has been successful but it has drained me mentally so hard that dieting is becoming too much for me.

    I have a decent muscle base but right now, I need to cut down to approx. 10%bf, but I can't stick to dieting without falling into crash dieting.

    I have made a meal plan at 1900 cals, 195p 145c 55f (from the top of my head, don't remember the exact numbers). I'm currently sitting at 88kg (bloated from water weight), approx 18%.
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  8. #758
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    Originally Posted by Yafassihim View Post
    I have an eating disorder, I eat for eating, not because I am hungry (although I also eat when hungry), but whenever I'm dieting, my willpower goes down so quickly. It is because I did alot of crash dieting. It has been successful but it has drained me mentally so hard that dieting is becoming too much for me.

    I have a decent muscle base but right now, I need to cut down to approx. 10%bf, but I can't stick to dieting without falling into crash dieting.

    I have made a meal plan at 1900 cals, 195p 145c 55f (from the top of my head, don't remember the exact numbers). I'm currently sitting at 88kg (bloated from water weight), approx 18%.
    Step 1

    DITCH THE EXTREME MINDSET

    Have you tried to eat "normally" and maintain your weight?
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  9. #759
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    Originally Posted by sonnydfrizzy View Post
    Step 1

    DITCH THE EXTREME MINDSET

    Have you tried to eat "normally" and maintain your weight?
    Ever since in that extreme mindset, no, I either gain alot of muscle with fat, or just cut alot of fat and lose muscle.

    It's really draining mentally
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  10. #760
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    Originally Posted by sonnydfrizzy View Post
    Is this going to lead you to your end goal of normalizing your eating patterns and not needing to track calories?
    I won't weigh myself starting tomorrow ..

    I'm so overwhelmed at the moment ..

    I have no idea what to eat.. I was planning to have my typical day tomorrow which is usually ending the night with a pint of ice cream and my walk in the morning ... I guess i'll have a protein bar before my walk (it's that early). and then a normal lunch and my usual dinner?

    I typically end EVERY nights with protein fluff + GY + cereal... I'd like to stick to that dinner but i'll definitely have breakfast and lunch .. just no idea what i'll eat during work
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  11. #761
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MosToorani View Post
    I won't weigh myself starting tomorrow ..

    I'm so overwhelmed at the moment ..

    I have no idea what to eat.. I was planning to have my typical day tomorrow which is usually ending the night with a pint of ice cream and my walk in the morning ... I guess i'll have a protein bar before my walk (it's that early). and then a normal lunch and my usual dinner?

    I typically end my IF nights with protein fluff + GY + cereal... I'd like to stick to that dinner but i'll definitely have breakfast and lunch .. just no idea what i'll eat during work
    Pro tip: eat whatever you want. Get variety back into your life.

    I love going into meals with options now... makes food so much more enjoyable!
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  12. #762
    Registered User MosToorani's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Pro tip: eat whatever you want. Get variety back into your life.

    I love going into meals with options now... makes food so much more enjoyable!
    I'll still be counting calories though .. So I would need to have some sort of plan..
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  13. #763
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MosToorani View Post
    I'll still be counting calories though .. So I would need to have some sort of plan..
    Hence why counting calories when you're trying to recover from ED's is counterproductive

    I didn't start to feel a sense of freedom in my eating until I trusted myself to be OK with not knowing the future of my meals

    You're smart enough to eyeball and guesstimate, give yourself some credit
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  14. #764
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    Originally Posted by MosToorani View Post
    I won't weigh myself starting tomorrow ..

    I'm so overwhelmed at the moment ..

    I have no idea what to eat.. I was planning to have my typical day tomorrow which is usually ending the night with a pint of ice cream and my walk in the morning ... I guess i'll have a protein bar before my walk (it's that early). and then a normal lunch and my usual dinner?

    I typically end EVERY nights with protein fluff + GY + cereal... I'd like to stick to that dinner but i'll definitely have breakfast and lunch .. just no idea what i'll eat during work
    Have your yogurt and cereal for breakfast.

    No more fluff ever.
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  15. #765
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    @Adam ..

    I need some time to mentally adjust to this .. a couple of weeks at least before i start to completely ditch counting calories ..

    @Sonny ..

    I'll ditch the fluff as soon as i feel like normal meals would satisfy my satiety?
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    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MosToorani View Post
    @Adam ..

    I need some time to mentally adjust to this .. a couple of weeks at least before i start to completely ditch counting calories ..

    @Sonny ..

    I'll ditch the fluff as soon as i feel like normal meals would satisfy my satiety?

    You're gunna do what you're gunna do. But it's delaying the inevitable. Just more wheel-spinning. The sooner you change, the sooner you'll recover. Up to you.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    You're gunna do what you're gunna do. But it's delaying the inevitable. Just more wheel-spinning. The sooner you change, the sooner you'll recover. Up to you.
    I'm taking a huge step as we speak ..

    Bumping calories from 2,100 - 2,300 to 2,700 everyday .. AND not weighing myself anymore..

    one step at a time man .. At least commend me for what I'm going to do starting tomorrow.
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    Originally Posted by MosToorani View Post
    I'm taking a huge step as we speak ..

    Bumping calories from 2,100 - 2,300 to 2,700 everyday .. AND not weighing myself anymore..

    one step at a time man .. At least commend me for what I'm going to do starting tomorrow.
    At this point it should go without saying that your decision to get better is 'commendable', if that's how you want to see it. That being said, this is for YOU... my personal appreciation for what you're doing shouldn't factor into the decision or your pride. Feel confident because YOU know you're making the right call, not anyone else.
    The power of carbs compels me!
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    At this point it should go without saying that your decision to get better is 'commendable', if that's how you want to see it. That being said, this is for YOU... my personal appreciation for what you're doing shouldn't factor into the decision or your pride. Feel confident because YOU know you're making the right call, not anyone else.
    I know it's the right thing but it's against everything I've been fighting against for a long time (gaining fat willingly) until this point ..

    I need to fight this fear first and then I can start just eating ..
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    Originally Posted by MosToorani View Post
    I know it's the right thing but it's against everything I've been fighting against for a long time (gaining fat willingly) until this point ..

    I need to fight this fear first and then I can start just eating ..
    Tracking everything to the gram will only fuel your fear.

    I'm not saying you'll be able to ignore calories, but again you can estimate and eyeball without typing and weighing foods.
    The power of carbs compels me!
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    Originally Posted by MosToorani View Post
    I won't weigh myself starting tomorrow ..

    I'm so overwhelmed at the moment ..

    I have no idea what to eat.. I was planning to have my typical day tomorrow which is usually ending the night with a pint of ice cream and my walk in the morning ... I guess i'll have a protein bar before my walk (it's that early). and then a normal lunch and my usual dinner?

    I typically end EVERY nights with protein fluff + GY + cereal... I'd like to stick to that dinner but i'll definitely have breakfast and lunch .. just no idea what i'll eat during work
    Man, it's amazing how closely I can relate to your frustrations. I think I'm going through the same thing at the moment. You need that control. You need the strict regimen, knowing what you're going to eat e.g. Saturday at 4pm. It overpowers what signals your body is giving you when it's hungry or not. What i've seen success with so far is to delegate my food choices to others. If you live with family or friends, you could ask them to prepare food for you.

    This also applies to other areas of life. If we live our lives the same way day to day, you never grow and learn. You need to shock yourself out of a habit, sometimes.

    Anyways, much respect and good luck!
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Tracking everything to the gram will only fuel your fear.

    I'm not saying you'll be able to ignore calories, but again you can estimate and eyeball without typing and weighing foods.
    soon .. soon .. need a bit of patience ... i promise..
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    Originally Posted by dashdash89 View Post
    Man, it's amazing how closely I can relate to your frustrations. I think I'm going through the same thing at the moment. You need that control. You need the strict regimen, knowing what you're going to eat e.g. Saturday at 4pm. It overpowers what signals your body is giving you when it's hungry or not. What i've seen success with so far is to delegate my food choices to others. If you live with family or friends, you could ask them to prepare food for you.

    This also applies to other areas of life. If we live our lives the same way day to day, you never grow and learn. You need to shock yourself out of a habit, sometimes.

    Anyways, much respect and good luck!
    Thank you bud ..

    That's exactly how I feel .. but I'm usually hungry so I try to push myself to the 'latest' time possible..
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    Originally Posted by dashdash89 View Post
    Man, it's amazing how closely I can relate to your frustrations. I think I'm going through the same thing at the moment. You need that control. You need the strict regimen, knowing what you're going to eat e.g. Saturday at 4pm. It overpowers what signals your body is giving you when it's hungry or not. What i've seen success with so far is to delegate my food choices to others. If you live with family or friends, you could ask them to prepare food for you.

    This also applies to other areas of life. If we live our lives the same way day to day, you never grow and learn. You need to shock yourself out of a habit, sometimes.

    Anyways, much respect and good luck!
    "What i've seen success with so far is to delegate my food choices to others." This is the best thing to do. Saves you time, and effort and u are going to lose all of your control what you take in!
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    Originally Posted by Grappa View Post
    "What i've seen success with so far is to delegate my food choices to others." This is the best thing to do. Saves you time, and effort and u are going to lose all of your control what you take in!
    Yes, I know .. Absolutely .. But i'll always have the that thought in the back of my mind "how much did i eat? did i eat more calories? did i eat less? how many calories are in this meal?" bla bla bla .. I'd rather ease into that situation .. that's why i need to experience this new feeling of my hopefully new intake before i go cold turkey completely.. i need to make sure that i hit minimum fats at least .. i need my hormones back..
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    Originally Posted by MosToorani View Post
    Yes, I know .. Absolutely .. But i'll always have the that thought in the back of my mind "how much did i eat? did i eat more calories? did i eat less? how many calories are in this meal?" bla bla bla .. I'd rather ease into that situation .. that's why i need to experience this new feeling of my hopefully new intake before i go cold turkey completely.. i need to make sure that i hit minimum fats at least .. i need my hormones back..
    Hitting your fats without sufficient calories and cutting back on high volume foods is a wash.

    Do them all to feel better.
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    Originally Posted by sonnydfrizzy View Post
    Hitting your fats without sufficient calories and cutting back on high volume foods is a wash.

    Do them all to feel better.
    What do you mean? 2,700 would be sufficient to hit 70g fats I believe? Just worried about not feeling full or 'satisfied'
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    Originally Posted by MosToorani View Post
    What do you mean? 2,700 would be sufficient to hit 70g fats I believe? Just worried about not feeling full or 'satisfied'
    Fat is satiating. Stop being 'worried'
    The power of carbs compels me!
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    Originally Posted by MosToorani View Post
    Yes, I know .. Absolutely .. But i'll always have the that thought in the back of my mind "how much did i eat? did i eat more calories? did i eat less? how many calories are in this meal?" bla bla bla .. I'd rather ease into that situation .. that's why i need to experience this new feeling of my hopefully new intake before i go cold turkey completely.. i need to make sure that i hit minimum fats at least .. i need my hormones back..
    Yup, 100% this. But you never actually know. For example, 100g of one apple may be more or less than 100g of another due to water weight, etc. The number of calories our bodies burn in a day varies all the time. Some days i've been ravenous, then the next would go all day without thinking of food. We like to think we know more than our bodies (if that makes sense), but really that's the best way to really know if you "should" eat or not.
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    Originally Posted by MosToorani View Post
    What do you mean? 2,700 would be sufficient to hit 70g fats I believe? Just worried about not feeling full or 'satisfied'
    The point is this:

    Tracking is still a crutch. You feel like crap. You abuse high volume foods. You don't eat any fats as a male. You IF.

    You NEED TO focus on big rocks and not maintain the crap habits that will still lead you feeling crappy.

    4 meals per day evenly dispersed.
    sufficient fats at each meal.
    smallest meal is before bed (one small snack like 1 apple)
    More calories in general.

    Do that ^^ while having a sufficient carbs, fats and proteins at each meal WITHOUT tracking.
    You know what a normal meal looks like. Now do that 3-4 times a day.
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