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  1. #2521
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Andrew578 View Post
    Thank you for the re-assurance. I was just getting worried, but it’s totally normal. Thanks Adam, u have helped me a lot. Appreciate it
    Anytime dude.

    trust me I know how scary this is. gaining weight, seeing definition go away, it feels like losing someone you love, or a prized possession...

    This goes away when the lifestyle changes and your body heals.
    The power of carbs compels me!
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  2. #2522
    Registered User Omni's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    @Andrew

    To add more substance to my last comment, I want you to think about it this way: what does knowing your weight actually mean?

    As someone who has restricted their intake to perpetuate a long-term energy deficit, you have zero knowledge about what internally needs to be 'fixed' in order to rebuild your health.

    For all we know, all the weight you gain during recovery is water, internal tissues (brain, heart, bones), hormonal function, increased food-volume in your gut (a HUGE factor).... but the ED's tendency is to immediately attribute all weight gain to fat.

    Everyone needs to gain fat in recovery, EVERYone. However, to assume your process is 'too fast' is completely counter-intuitive, because again the ultimate goal is to heal yourself. What else would you do, KEEP restricting? NOT honoring your hunger? If you do that, then you're behaving like an anorexic....

    All the people I have ever known who actually got through recovery have said they wish they just gave in and accepted their body and their cravings sooner. Most of them did, eventually, but only after this mental suffering and questioning you're experiencing know. Not once have I come across a recovered anorexic who experienced extreme hunger and feast-eating who said, "yeah I wish I restricted and held back, and didn't accept my hunger cues".

    These feelings of insatiable hunger do NOT last forever, why would they? Your body wants to seek homeostasis... it's not here to work against you, trick you into "becoming obese", or cause you harm in any way. It only wants to live and thrive.

    It's pointless to question 'how long will this last?', 'when will the hunger go down?', because nobody has that answer. A week? A month? A Year? More? Those questions are coming 100% from the voice in your head that wants to be reassured that you have control, and that you're safe from being something you fear.

    Focus on how you FEEL now, how your sleep is, how your mental health is.... not a scale number, not calories... and definitely not how you'll look physically coming out the other side.
    Wow man this was extremely well wrote - good work. I am currently relating to a lot of this right now as well. You need to write a book, you're VERY good at explanations and reassurance.

    Speaking of, my copy of Rehabilitate, Rewire and Recover will be here next week. I'm very excited to get started on it.
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  3. #2523
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Omni View Post
    Wow man this was extremely well wrote - good work. I am currently relating to a lot of this right now as well. You need to write a book, you're VERY good at explanations and reassurance.

    Speaking of, my copy of Rehabilitate, Rewire and Recover will be here next week. I'm very excited to get started on it.
    Awesome! I think you'll be shocked when you read it how many of your symptoms/thoughts are shared by others.

    Some of the book takes you into a 'toolkit' of sorts. I skipped over that toolkit stuff until I finished the actual reading content, but the toolkit stuff is helpful if you want exercises you can use in the real world.
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  4. #2524
    Registered User Andrew578's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    @Andrew

    To add more substance to my last comment, I want you to think about it this way: what does knowing your weight actually mean?

    As someone who has restricted their intake to perpetuate a long-term energy deficit, you have zero knowledge about what internally needs to be 'fixed' in order to rebuild your health.

    For all we know, all the weight you gain during recovery is water, internal tissues (brain, heart, bones), hormonal function, increased food-volume in your gut (a HUGE factor).... but the ED's tendency is to immediately attribute all weight gain to fat.

    Everyone needs to gain fat in recovery, EVERYone. However, to assume your process is 'too fast' is completely counter-intuitive, because again the ultimate goal is to heal yourself. What else would you do, KEEP restricting? NOT honoring your hunger? If you do that, then you're behaving like an anorexic....

    All the people I have ever known who actually got through recovery have said they wish they just gave in and accepted their body and their cravings sooner. Most of them did, eventually, but only after this mental suffering and questioning you're experiencing know. Not once have I come across a recovered anorexic who experienced extreme hunger and feast-eating who said, "yeah I wish I restricted and held back, and didn't accept my hunger cues".

    These feelings of insatiable hunger do NOT last forever, why would they? Your body wants to seek homeostasis... it's not here to work against you, trick you into "becoming obese", or cause you harm in any way. It only wants to live and thrive.

    It's pointless to question 'how long will this last?', 'when will the hunger go down?', because nobody has that answer. A week? A month? A Year? More? Those questions are coming 100% from the voice in your head that wants to be reassured that you have control, and that you're safe from being something you fear.

    Focus on how you FEEL now, how your sleep is, how your mental health is.... not a scale number, not calories... and definitely not how you'll look physically coming out the other side.
    Thank you so much Adam, I am going to come out the other side stronger mentally. Thank you again. You have honestly made this journey a lot easier for me. After all these years I am actually giving in and giving what my body needs and I honestly feel so much happier, stronger and healthier already.
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  5. #2525
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Andrew578 View Post
    Thank you so much Adam, I am going to come out the other side stronger mentally. Thank you again. You have honestly made this journey a lot easier for me. After all these years I am actually giving in and giving what my body needs and I honestly feel so much happier, stronger and healthier already.
    Really glad to hear that
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  6. #2526
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    Hey guys, me again I am just having more negative thoughts as the days go. I continue to eat the fridge and pantry clean. I think my hunger thoughts are slowing down a little. My stomach is reeking havoc on me. I am going to the toilet around 3-4 times a day (before used to be just once) and I continuously feeling sick, bloated and lethargic. All i want to do is lay down, i don't feel like training either which is something I have never experienced before. the eating disorder inside me is scared since I have already put on 2kg in about 2 weeks. I need to keep pushing through this tho. I don't know when this is going to end but I am getting a little scared that I am going to go back to my old (overweight) self. I look much bigger already and it is scary. Sorry for this message but I just need to speak about my emotions on this journey as I never really speak to my family about this. Thanks guys for the continuous support and especially Adam. I appreciate it.

    Also exams coming up in school, so that's just adding to the stress and worrying.
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  7. #2527
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    @Andrew

    As a ‘FFB’ myself (former fat boy), I know this struggle all too well. Many people with EDs have never truly been overweight or chubby, so while they carry a fear of weight gain, they don’t have the history with knowing what it actually feels like to carry the extra fat. For us, our leanness is like the prize / medal we wear and show to the world. Thus, the idea of losing any fraction of that feels like giving away all our hard work. Not only that, we often fear others passing judgement on us for changing at all.

    My internal fears always come as worrisome thoughts around what people might think about my weight gain.

    “will they think I’ve gotten lazy?”
    “Will they think I’ve lost control?”
    “Will they no longer envy me for being one of the ‘fit’ ones?”

    I even carry this idea that, if only everyone could know what I’m doing and why I’m doing it, THEN I wouldn’t be so scared, as if them being informed of my reasons would give me a pass from them casting judgements. After all, if they knew I was doing this on purpose, surely they wouldn’t judge me, right?

    Well, sadly it can’t always be that easy. These fears are the disordered thoughts trying to pull your independence from you. YOU have the power to make your own life, free from judgement. Plus, no one will judge you in this way... no one. I know it’s hard to believe in the moment, but if anyone knew why you’re doing this, they’d say ‘GO FOR IT!’.

    And dude, 2kg is a drop in the bucket... seriously. There are people who gain 20-40lb in the first month of refeeding.. I’m not even kidding!

    You’re doing great man. Even if you’re dealing with pain, trust me I’m right there with you. Hell, I’ve been sweating during the night, dealing with constant bloating, etc, because my body is not used to eating the kinds of things I’m throwing at it. It may sound ironic, but in recoverY, it often gets worse before it gets better.
    The power of carbs compels me!
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  8. #2528
    Registered User Andrew578's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    @Andrew

    As a ‘FFB’ myself (former fat boy), I know this struggle all too well. Many people with EDs have never truly been overweight or chubby, so while they carry a fear of weight gain, they don’t have the history with knowing what it actually feels like to carry the extra fat. For us, our leanness is like the prize / medal we wear and show to the world. Thus, the idea of losing any fraction of that feels like giving away all our hard work. Not only that, we often fear others passing judgement on us for changing at all.

    My internal fears always come as worrisome thoughts around what people might think about my weight gain.

    “will they think I’ve gotten lazy?”
    “Will they think I’ve lost control?”
    “Will they no longer envy me for being one of the ‘fit’ ones?”

    I even carry this idea that, if only everyone could know what I’m doing and why I’m doing it, THEN I wouldn’t be so scared, as if them being informed of my reasons would give me a pass from them casting judgements. After all, if they knew I was doing this on purpose, surely they wouldn’t judge me, right?

    Well, sadly it can’t always be that easy. These fears are the disordered thoughts trying to pull your independence from you. YOU have the power to make your own life, free from judgement. Plus, no one will judge you in this way... no one. I know it’s hard to believe in the moment, but if anyone knew why you’re doing this, they’d say ‘GO FOR IT!’.

    And dude, 2kg is a drop in the bucket... seriously. There are people who gain 20-40lb in the first month of refeeding.. I’m not even kidding!

    You’re doing great man. Even if you’re dealing with pain, trust me I’m right there with you. Hell, I’ve been sweating during the night, dealing with constant bloating, etc, because my body is not used to eating the kinds of things I’m throwing at it. It may sound ironic, but in recoverY, it often gets worse before it gets better.
    Thank you so much, I honestly appreciate it a lot. If it wasn’t for you Adam I think I would have gone back to my old habits. I need to just keep pushing forward and yes I do have some negative thoughts but I am trying my best to block them out. It felt good sending that message before and just letting people know of my emotions, it really helped. I honestly cannot thank you enough Adam, and thanks for the continuous support, means a lot!
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  9. #2529
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Andrew578 View Post
    Thank you so much, I honestly appreciate it a lot. If it wasn’t for you Adam I think I would have gone back to my old habits. I need to just keep pushing forward and yes I do have some negative thoughts but I am trying my best to block them out. It felt good sending that message before and just letting people know of my emotions, it really helped. I honestly cannot thank you enough Adam, and thanks for the continuous support, means a lot!
    Anytime dude.

    Just to offer some unsolicited advice as well... don't feel like you're ever 'doing it wrong' or that your approach/experience isn't valid because it looks different from other people's. No one's process to get back to a healthy weight/mindset/life is going to be the exact same.

    Some people can gain HUGE amounts in a week, then lose their appetite for a week, then get hit again with a wave of massive hunger, and so on and so on. It's not a linear process by any means, both physically and mentally. I say this from experience dealing with days where I honestly consumed entire jars of PB, trays of cookie, and even wake up in the middle of the night with strange cravings then to find myself in the kitchen snacking at 3am because I couldn't sleep due to thoughts of food.

    It can get real ugly... believe me, I know!

    And, at the same time, just know you never, ever have to MAKE yourself eat unless you clearly see that you're restricting for some reason or that you're obviously underfeeding.

    Again, some people have extreme, insatiable hunger daily for weeks, months, etc...

    Others have it for a day, then nothing for a week, then huge spikes in hunger for a month, then nothing for a month... again, it varies wildly.

    As long as your response to your body is inline with what it's feedback is saying, you're doing everything you can.

    Lastly, and I know this is a tough idea to accept, but there are ways to (at least intermittently) make light of the situation even though it's a serious one and you need to restore your health.

    For example, I've started taking a very humorous mindset around my eating. Because lets be honest, it's moderately funny that I can eat 6+ cups of food in volume and feel like I ate almost nothing. I mean, come on... that's pretty freakin hilarious. Most people can have one chipotle burrito and be 100% full. Me, I could eat 2 burritos, some cookies, chips and guac, whatever, and basically be the same level of satiety. That's pretty damn silly... I'm basically a bottomless pit sometimes.

    Again I know the after-effects/weight gain that results are challenging, but try to add some 'fun/humor' anytime you can. When I wake up in the middle of the night starving, I think to myself, "lol... wtf.... who does this? Well, guess im gunna go eat some cereal now... like a weirdo". Then I just smile, think about how funny it is to be starving for cereal, and go back to bed.

    Not to get super philosophical, but to take a kind of Buddhist/zen tone on this... we're all just a bunch of conscious beings floating around on a rock in a vast and (largely) unknown universe... our lives are drops in the bucket of time... we're tiny by almost all measures in the context of everything in existence... and not only that, but we don't even live forever. So, really, does gaining weight reeeaaaally matter? Does being lean reeeaaaally matter? Naw... it doesn't... and I bet if you found out you only had, say, 1 month to live, you'd feel free as a bird to eat whatever you wanted because you knew your time was running out. Well, why not start now then? After all, eventually, there will come a day where that 1-month-left is a reality, and you don't wanna miss out on all these experiences just because you don't like losing your abs.

    Cheers dude!
    The power of carbs compels me!
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  10. #2530
    Registered User Andrew578's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Anytime dude.

    Just to offer some unsolicited advice as well... don't feel like you're ever 'doing it wrong' or that your approach/experience isn't valid because it looks different from other people's. No one's process to get back to a healthy weight/mindset/life is going to be the exact same.

    Some people can gain HUGE amounts in a week, then lose their appetite for a week, then get hit again with a wave of massive hunger, and so on and so on. It's not a linear process by any means, both physically and mentally. I say this from experience dealing with days where I honestly consumed entire jars of PB, trays of cookie, and even wake up in the middle of the night with strange cravings then to find myself in the kitchen snacking at 3am because I couldn't sleep due to thoughts of food.

    It can get real ugly... believe me, I know!

    And, at the same time, just know you never, ever have to MAKE yourself eat unless you clearly see that you're restricting for some reason or that you're obviously underfeeding.

    Again, some people have extreme, insatiable hunger daily for weeks, months, etc...

    Others have it for a day, then nothing for a week, then huge spikes in hunger for a month, then nothing for a month... again, it varies wildly.

    As long as your response to your body is inline with what it's feedback is saying, you're doing everything you can.

    Lastly, and I know this is a tough idea to accept, but there are ways to (at least intermittently) make light of the situation even though it's a serious one and you need to restore your health.

    For example, I've started taking a very humorous mindset around my eating. Because lets be honest, it's moderately funny that I can eat 6+ cups of food in volume and feel like I ate almost nothing. I mean, come on... that's pretty freakin hilarious. Most people can have one chipotle burrito and be 100% full. Me, I could eat 2 burritos, some cookies, chips and guac, whatever, and basically be the same level of satiety. That's pretty damn silly... I'm basically a bottomless pit sometimes.

    Again I know the after-effects/weight gain that results are challenging, but try to add some 'fun/humor' anytime you can. When I wake up in the middle of the night starving, I think to myself, "lol... wtf.... who does this? Well, guess im gunna go eat some cereal now... like a weirdo". Then I just smile, think about how funny it is to be starving for cereal, and go back to bed.

    Not to get super philosophical, but to take a kind of Buddhist/zen tone on this... we're all just a bunch of conscious beings floating around on a rock in a vast and (largely) unknown universe... our lives are drops in the bucket of time... we're tiny by almost all measures in the context of everything in existence... and not only that, but we don't even live forever. So, really, does gaining weight reeeaaaally matter? Does being lean reeeaaaally matter? Naw... it doesn't... and I bet if you found out you only had, say, 1 month to live, you'd feel free as a bird to eat whatever you wanted because you knew your time was running out. Well, why not start now then? After all, eventually, there will come a day where that 1-month-left is a reality, and you don't wanna miss out on all these experiences just because you don't like losing your abs.

    Cheers dude!
    Bro that response was honestly amazing, that truely changed my hole perception. Lol I do make it funny sometimes. Like I am a 17 year old boy 5'5 and weigh 54kg and to think I can eat and fit so much food in my stomach is quite funny and I think jesus i did a pretty good job lol. But honestly I appreciate it so much and can not thank you enough, you really do not understand how much you have helped me. I ate a whole packet of cookies (like 24 cookies and 2 liters of milk and was still so hungry, pretty funny how that works like I am a small kid yet I fit that all in me)

    Will regards to my training, should I just keep trying to progress and get stronger during this period? or just take a more chilled out approach until this is all sorted out?
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  11. #2531
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Andrew578 View Post
    Bro that response was honestly amazing, that truely changed my hole perception. Lol I do make it funny sometimes. Like I am a 17 year old boy 5'5 and weigh 54kg and to think I can eat and fit so much food in my stomach is quite funny and I think jesus i did a pretty good job lol. But honestly I appreciate it so much and can not thank you enough, you really do not understand how much you have helped me. I ate a whole packet of cookies (like 24 cookies and 2 liters of milk and was still so hungry, pretty funny how that works like I am a small kid yet I fit that all in me)

    Will regards to my training, should I just keep trying to progress and get stronger during this period? or just take a more chilled out approach until this is all sorted out?
    Right now, you should take a chill attitude toward everything.

    If you're training, I do hope it's only weights and in no way connected to the food obsessions... they often go hand-in-hand.

    There's nothing wrong with trying to get stronger of course, it's all about how it effects you mentally. At your age, you're going to build muscle pretty much no matter what you do. If you're feeling strong enough and have enough every, go for it. The big thing to keep in mind is that you need to rest and recover, and don't stretch out your workouts if it's with a goal of trying to control your body/food/appearance.

    No stress, just have fun... these can be the best years of your life!
    The power of carbs compels me!
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  12. #2532
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Right now, you should take a chill attitude toward everything.

    If you're training, I do hope it's only weights and in no way connected to the food obsessions... they often go hand-in-hand.

    There's nothing wrong with trying to get stronger of course, it's all about how it effects you mentally. At your age, you're going to build muscle pretty much no matter what you do. If you're feeling strong enough and have enough every, go for it. The big thing to keep in mind is that you need to rest and recover, and don't stretch out your workouts if it's with a goal of trying to control your body/food/appearance.

    No stress, just have fun... these can be the best years of your life!
    Yep no worries, yeh just doing weight training 4 days a week currently (Fierce 5 U/L). I am just trying to just listen to my body. Like yesterday wasn't feeling the best so didn't push myself to 100%
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    Originally Posted by Andrew578 View Post
    Yep no worries, yeh just doing weight training 4 days a week currently (Fierce 5 U/L). I am just trying to just listen to my body. Like yesterday wasn't feeling the best so didn't push myself to 100%
    I'd say if you're really not feeling it, just don't go... but you know your body better than I do ;o)

    For me, if I'm feeling off, all I do is stretching/bodyweight stuff to 'grease the groove', then reassess the next day.

    It seems to help my digestion actually since it keeps blood flow from only bring focused on digestion, heh.
    The power of carbs compels me!
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    I'd say if you're really not feeling it, just don't go... but you know your body better than I do ;o)

    For me, if I'm feeling off, all I do is stretching/bodyweight stuff to 'grease the groove', then reassess the next day.

    It seems to help my digestion actually since it keeps blood flow from only bring focused on digestion, heh.
    Ok yeh, Just trying to focus to listen to my body and doing what I feel is right. Thank you so much
    Last edited by Andrew578; 11-11-2019 at 08:27 PM.
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    Originally Posted by Andrew578 View Post
    Ok yeh, Just trying to focus to listen to my body and doing what I feel is right. Thank you so much
    You got this man. Stay strong
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    Struggling. Sucks being away with work, no ability to cook my own food, eating out every meal.

    Hotel is lonely and I'm stuck with just my compulsion to eat as company, and I'm ignoring those thoughts.

    15 days binge free.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    You got this man. Stay strong
    also, Adam. I was meant to start a slow and steady bulk over the course of 12 months (September 2019-September 2020) and was aim for about 62kg-65kg. However I am already 55kg from today. I was wondering after all this is over. I will be to heavy to go into a bulk so what should I do. I really want bulk up and gain some strength but I think my I would be too heavy to go into a bulk. How should I go about it once I overcome this period of extreme hunger
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    Originally Posted by Andrew578 View Post
    also, Adam. I was meant to start a slow and steady bulk over the course of 12 months (September 2019-September 2020) and was aim for about 62kg-65kg. However I am already 55kg from today. I was wondering after all this is over. I will be to heavy to go into a bulk so what should I do. I really want bulk up and gain some strength but I think my I would be too heavy to go into a bulk. How should I go about it once I overcome this period of extreme hunger
    I think you need to reframe your priorities entirely when it comes to the gym, your body, your weight, etc.

    I mean dude, 62-65KG is still super light anyway... you need to throw out these arbitrary weight goals. Who CARES what you weigh? what about how you feel? What about your friends? Your life? Your future?

    Because you come from this background of restriction, being so precise with your timelines, weight goals, etc, is not a good idea. The whole point of recovery is to 'let your body do it's thing', instead of failing to trust it like you have been for a long time.

    There is no such thing as 'too heavy to bulk'... you need to wipe this idea from your mind entirely.

    Stop worrying about the future, the past, etc... think about the present moment. You need to handle these things one at a time. You can gain muscle no matter what size you are..

    The fact that you're already thinking about being 'too heavy' for a bulk is a prime example of the disordered mindset you have trying to make excuses for taking things slow, not living for right now, and so on.

    Don't worry about this... you need to wait out the current situation, get healthy, and when the time comes (which there is no way to predict the timing of) you can frame your training goals again. But it can never, ever again be about a weight goal, or you're likely going to fall back into the same hole of eating disordered activity like you did before, and become ill again.

    Bottom-line, you need to start thinking in terms of never, EVER again worrying about being 'too heavy' to do anything. There is no such thing... still art focusing on being happy, healthy, and strong. The number on the scale doesn't exist anymore. Not for you.
    Last edited by AdamWW; Yesterday at 09:58 AM.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    I think you need to reframe your priorities entirely when it comes to the gym, your body, your weight, etc.

    I mean dude, 62-65KG is still super light anyway... you need to throw out these arbitrary weight goals. Who CARES what you weigh? what about how you feel? What about your friends? Your life? Your future?

    Because you come from this background of restriction, being so precise with your timelines, weight goals, etc, is not a good idea. The whole point of recovery is to 'let your body do it's thing', instead of failing to trust it like you have been for a long time.

    There is no such thing as 'too heavy to bulk'... you need to wipe this idea from your mind entirely.

    Stop worrying about the future, the past, etc... think about the present moment. You need to handle these things one at a time. You can gain muscle no matter what size you are..

    The fact that you're already thinking about being 'too heavy' for a bulk is a prime example of the disordered mindset you have trying to make excuses for taking things slow, not living for right now, and so on.

    Don't worry about this... you need to wait out the current situation, get healthy, and when the time comes (which there is no way to predict the timing of) you can frame your training goals again. But it can never, ever again be about a weight goal, or you're likely going to fall back into the same hole of eating disordered activity like you did before, and become ill again.

    Bottom-line, you need to start thinking in terms of never, EVER again worrying about being 'too heavy' to do anything. There is no such thing... still art focusing on being happy, healthy, and strong. The number on the scale doesn't exist anymore. Not for you.
    Yeh I understand, you’re right I need to think about the present. I need to listen and trust me body still trying to fix my mindset around it all. But thank you so much I was stressing a bit but it was the voice in my head.

    Last night I was having thoughts about going back to my old habits. I re-downloaded MyFitnessPal to track calories but once I downloaded it, i deleted it straight away. I didn’t want to get sucked into the same trap

    Thank you Adam, you have made this journey a lot easier, and thank you for letting me share my emotions, it has really helped me
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    Originally Posted by Andrew578 View Post
    Yeh I understand, you’re right I need to think about the present. I need to listen and trust me body still trying to fix my mindset around it all. But thank you so much I was stressing a bit but it was the voice in my head.

    Last night I was having thoughts about going back to my old habits. I re-downloaded MyFitnessPal to track calories but once I downloaded it, i deleted it straight away. I didn’t want to get sucked into the same trap

    Thank you Adam, you have made this journey a lot easier, and thank you for letting me share my emotions, it has really helped me
    Anytime dude.

    Just focus on life right now... not the past, not planning for the future, nothing like that regarding your eating or training.

    MyFitnessPal should never be a part of your life... it does not know what you need. You do.
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