Eating Disorder Support Thread: "Take Action" (part 3)

[sonnydfrizzy]

oh wow .. i guess you were extremely thin and restrictive?

what do you mean by body fat redistributes with hormones improving? since the day i've gain a few kgs back (i'm not complaining haha), it all went into my gut haha

MT

Nope, I was 130 at 5'11"

I was thin but not terribly. Just took a long time to get my hormones and psychology back in order.

[AdamWW]

Nope, I was 130 at 5'11"

I was thin but not terribly. Just took a long time to get my hormones and psychology back in order.

Almost exactly what I got to when I was 18.

I was 6 foot (well, 5' 11.75") and 125lb.

Right now, I'm same height, but I think about 136lb... but now I'm actually leaner so I think it's effecting me similarly.

[sonnydfrizzy]

Almost exactly what I got to when I was 18.

I was 6 foot (well, 5' 11.75") and 125lb.

Right now, I'm same height, but I think about 136lb... but now I'm actually leaner so I think it's effecting me similarly.

\
You probably will need to be 170+ to feel normal, and to be okay with gaining a lot more body fat than you already have.

Howver, those with EDs are irrational and refuse to take action until their body forces them to.

What does a normal day of eating look like for you?

[AdamWW]

@MT
I gained 55 pounds before I felt normal. Body fat and body comp redistributes with hormones improving and it takes time. That is why it is so important to build your life up somewhere outside of food and fitness.

@AdamWW

What does a REAL day of eating look like to you?

REAL day... well It varies a bit based on how much time I have cook and what im craving but there are some commonalities for sure.

Yesterday kind of sucked because of the stupid bloat, but on a typical day I eat within about 30-45min of waking up... i usually wake up pretty hungry especially now when I have degrees of extreme hunger throughout the day.

Typically it's an oats-based meal first off, something like 1-1.5 cups of raw oats, cooked up in cashew milk and then I'll add a banana, blueberries, granola, maple syrup, and protein powder on/in it. Honestly not sure on calories... probably 1000-1200.. but often times I'll still get hungry afterward and need a little more.

Then throughout the day I have 1-2 snacks other than lunch... usually that's like a bagel with PB + a piece of fruit or something like a large bowl of cereal... I think my snacks range anywhere from 500-800 calories right now... it takes a while for me to get full on snack-type foods.

Lunch kind of depends... if I bring lunch I usually bring a large container of pasta or something starchy that has marinara in it and some kind of protein like Tempeh or Tofu... i'll have that with some veggies (the type varies) and 1-2 pieces of fruit... plus a non-dairy yogurt. Not totally sure on calories but probably 1000-1200 in that meal... could be more some days.

Dinner and meals at night are hugely variable right now... my most common meal has been a lentil + sweet potato stew that I make with celery/mushrooms/other veggies... and I'll eat a whole large avocado as well... Otherwise I love making homemade pizza, stir fry, vegan burgers, homemade fries.... that kinda stuff.

Thing is though, I usually snack AFTER dinner a little because I have a hard time going to bed right now unless i'm full-ish because then I just think about food... so I have to fill up on something or I'll just be laying there wanting something, heh.

So yeah right now It's pretty standard breakfast/lunch/dinner but which snacks in between... if I train before work it's usually about 1-2 hours after breakfast, or if it's after work it's usually 1-2 hours after a snack. I can't train intensely at all unless I have some calories in me.

Kind of feeling like a bottomless pit sometimes but my body feels great... so fuk it.

[AdamWW]

\
You probably will need to be 170+ to feel normal, and to be okay with gaining a lot more body fat than you already have.

Howver, those with EDs are irrational and refuse to take action until their body forces them to.

What does a normal day of eating look like for you?

I remember back when I bulked up to 173, it wasn't until I hit about 160 that I started to feel strong and normal again... but yeah I agree it's probably going to be 160-170lb before I stop feeling cold and super hungry all the time. Tall dudes issues

Looking back at my pictures, it also wasn't until that 160 mark wherein my face/cheeks started to fill out more and I didn't look kind of gaunt.

I should add, though, when I bulked up I was going from 153-173... so EVEN when my starting point was higher, it took a while to feel 'better' and strong.

I actually stayed pretty damn lean when I got to 173... some people said I looked leaner than before.

[AdamWW]

ON AN UNRELATED NOTE...

Lifted today...

Yet again, more squat gains... I was able to add 10lb to my first 2 sets

OHP also got easier but I didn't increase the weight... maybe next time.

Overall super happy though! Bulking FTW.

[sonnydfrizzy]

@MT

by fat redistribution I mean that it took over a year for my body fat, water retention and general bloat to redistribute to "normal" terms. In the beginning, it was mostly body fat in my abdomen (which makes sense... protect the organs) and then I filled out more evenly 14 months later.

[sonnydfrizzy]

REAL day... well It varies a bit based on how much time I have cook and what im craving but there are some commonalities for sure.

Yesterday kind of sucked because of the stupid bloat, but on a typical day I eat within about 30-45min of waking up... i usually wake up pretty hungry especially now when I have degrees of extreme hunger throughout the day.

Typically it's an oats-based meal first off, something like 1-1.5 cups of raw oats, cooked up in cashew milk and then I'll add a banana, blueberries, granola, maple syrup, and protein powder on/in it. Honestly not sure on calories... probably 1000-1200.. but often times I'll still get hungry afterward and need a little more.

Then throughout the day I have 1-2 snacks other than lunch... usually that's like a bagel with PB + a piece of fruit or something like a large bowl of cereal... I think my snacks range anywhere from 500-800 calories right now... it takes a while for me to get full on snack-type foods.

Lunch kind of depends... if I bring lunch I usually bring a large container of pasta or something starchy that has marinara in it and some kind of protein like Tempeh or Tofu... i'll have that with some veggies (the type varies) and 1-2 pieces of fruit... plus a non-dairy yogurt. Not totally sure on calories but probably 1000-1200 in that meal... could be more some days.

Dinner and meals at night are hugely variable right now... my most common meal has been a lentil + sweet potato stew that I make with celery/mushrooms/other veggies... and I'll eat a whole large avocado as well... Otherwise I love making homemade pizza, stir fry, vegan burgers, homemade fries.... that kinda stuff.

Thing is though, I usually snack AFTER dinner a little because I have a hard time going to bed right now unless i'm full-ish because then I just think about food... so I have to fill up on something or I'll just be laying there wanting something, heh.

So yeah right now It's pretty standard breakfast/lunch/dinner but which snacks in between... if I train before work it's usually about 1-2 hours after breakfast, or if it's after work it's usually 1-2 hours after a snack. I can't train intensely at all unless I have some calories in me.

Kind of feeling like a bottomless pit sometimes but my body feels great... so fuk it.

What is your fat intake like?
Are you still vegan?

A lot of those foods are not enabling you to eat lower volumes of food and higher energy density. A lot of what you are consuming is very slow digesting, low in fat and definitely contributing to your inability to eat more and train hard. I reduced fiber intake (when I was actually tracking food intake) down to 25-30 grams and cut meal sizes WAY down (not calories but changed food source), upped my fats and it made a marked difference on satiety, mental clarity, energy levels and ability to train hard.

After a while, you like the feeling of NOT being stuff and you can feel the psychological and physiological satisfaction and lack of drive to eat even though you are not overly bloated and full.

It is an odd sensation; abusing high volume foods and eating low fat, high fiber foods really messes with your brain and gut satiety signals but can quickly be normalized when you recondition yourself to alter food sources and eat for energy density and not volume.

My training improved markedly -- when I was training often -- when I ate more energy dense foods because I do not think I had to zap all my energy to digest such high volumes of food and fiber and the energy was more readily available.

For men, I really would focus on increasing fat intake slowly at each meal. It helps with digestion and regularity and **anecdotally** hormone health (although I think this is more correlation not causation... more fat intake helped me to increase energy density, digest food better and sleep more soundly therefore increasing male sex hormones).

[AdamWW]

What is your fat intake like?
Are you still vegan?

A lot of those foods are not enabling you to eat lower volumes of food and higher energy density. A lot of what you are consuming is very slow digesting, low in fat and definitely contributing to your inability to eat more and train hard. I reduced fiber intake (when I was actually tracking food intake) down to 25-30 grams and cut meal sizes WAY down (not calories but changed food source), upped my fats and it made a marked difference on satiety, mental clarity, energy levels and ability to train hard.

After a while, you like the feeling of NOT being stuff and you can feel the psychological and physiological satisfaction and lack of drive to eat even though you are not overly bloated and full.

It is an odd sensation; abusing high volume foods and eating low fat, high fiber foods really messes with your brain and gut satiety signals but can quickly be normalized when you recondition yourself to alter food sources and eat for energy density and not volume.

My training improved markedly -- when I was training often -- when I ate more energy dense foods because I do not think I had to zap all my energy to digest such high volumes of food and fiber and the energy was more readily available.

For men, I really would focus on increasing fat intake slowly at each meal. It helps with digestion and regularity and **anecdotally** hormone health (although I think this is more correlation not causation... more fat intake helped me to increase energy density, digest food better and sleep more soundly therefore increasing male sex hormones).

I don't eat a ton of fat but I get little bits in each meal... I probably consume about 80g a day or so... fats tends to satiate me alot compared to carbs but that could be because of my fats are nuts/seeds/avocado.

Still vegan, yes.

Good points about fiber... I've been trying to consume less vegetables because, although I love the taste, they do fill me up. I've also had to stop eating beans or anything that might give me gas.

One thing I will say is that meals made with oil are far easier for me to eat for higher calories. For example, if I eat a curry dish (lots of fat from coconut milk) or a noodle stir-fry, I can eat tons of it before being full and the calorie count is huge.

I should probably start incorporating more of those kind of foods. I do love my granola though, and it has a lot of calories (200 per half cup).

Interestingly enough I've had to stop drinking caffeinated coffee because (1) with the volume of food I eat now it gives me heartburn and (2) it blunts my appetite a lot.

[sonnydfrizzy]

@Adam
Why vegan?

Also... nobody loves veggies dude. This is not a joke either. Nobody eats a plain broc**** raw and thinks "this is amazing, I love this."

What foods do you fear?

[AdamWW]

@Adam
Why vegan?

Also... nobody loves veggies dude. This is not a joke either. Nobody eats a plain broc**** raw and thinks "this is amazing, I love this."

What foods do you fear?

I wrote a longer explanation in my recovery log I think somewhere but I'll give you the clifs...

Basically I have had horrible acid reflux since I was 20. I tried every last attempt to fix the issues in isolation (what they elimination diets) but nothing worked except avoiding super-spicy foods, which I still do now, and also avoiding booze.

I decided to just take the strictest option I could, and my reflux has improved incredibly. After 6months though, I just started to enjoy not eating meat, and I did research on animal treatment, etc, and eventually the idea of consuming animal products just became unappealing to me. That's basically it...

And I don't completely agree with the veggies being not good thing I do genuinely like carrots and sweet peas! But yeah kale, etc, not 'good' per se.

My main fear foods are higher fat... things like nutella, fattier ice creams, cakes, pastries... i freaking LOVE pastries. My orthorexia also involves fear of processed foods to an extent, things like pop tarts and that kinda stuff.

I also maintain fear of foods cooked in oil and especially out at restaurants where I cannot 'know' what is in it.

I have to fight hard to consume these without too much anxiety.

[sonnydfrizzy]

I wrote a longer explanation in my recovery log I think somewhere but I'll give you the clifs...

Basically I have had horrible acid reflux since I was 20. I tried every last attempt to fix the issues in isolation (what they elimination diets) but nothing worked except avoiding super-spicy foods, which I still do now, and also avoiding booze.

I decided to just take the strictest option I could, and my reflux has improved incredibly. After 6months though, I just started to enjoy not eating meat, and I did research on animal treatment, etc, and eventually the idea of consuming animal products just became unappealing to me. That's basically it...

And I don't completely agree with the veggies being not good thing I do genuinely like carrots and sweet peas! But yeah kale, etc, not 'good' per se.

My main fear foods are higher fat... things like nutella, fattier ice creams, cakes, pastries... i freaking LOVE pastries. My orthorexia also involves fear of processed foods to an extent, things like pop tarts and that kinda stuff.

I also maintain fear of foods cooked in oil and especially out at restaurants where I cannot 'know' what is in it.

I have to fight hard to consume these without too much anxiety.

The foods you fear most are the foods highest in palatability, fat, and calories.
I think you know your next step?

[AdamWW]

The foods you fear most are the foods highest in palatability, fat, and calories.
I think you know your next step?

I'm eating them currently but they are the hardest to consume without feeling that inner ED voice causing me guilt. Sometimes it's not too bad, other times it makes it much harder. The fact that my strength is increasing helps me feel motivated to not worry about fat gain though, for sure.

[Grappa]

I'm eating them currently but they are the hardest to consume without feeling that inner ED voice causing me guilt. Sometimes it's not too bad, other times it makes it much harder. The fact that my strength is increasing helps me feel motivated to not worry about fat gain though, for sure.

When i was under physiological support i have asked my therapist about veganism, cuz i have seen a fkload of peeps go vegan on anorexia recovery, i tought that is cuz banana n shiet is easily digestable and when u are malnourished your digestive system is really off.. RIP cheese in my entire life.... Back to the lines, i wanted to go vegan, ( kinda morbid, cuz i am a hunter. would be funny if after the hunt i would sit at the hunter's feast while cowered in blood, and tossing away the stew and saying no thx i am vegan. xD) and she told me, those who are going vegan/paleo etc bullcrap on recovery they will restrict themselves. Keep in mind if u are vegan you ar enot eating meat, if u are doing paleo, well i do not know much about paleo but it is a diet, so i think that restrict something. She told me just eat like a regular guy and everything will be okay. So i have started to eat like my friends, parents etc.. And it turned out awesome. As how your veggie intake goes, well i can agree with sonny, that veggies taste like crap, but here in hungary we deep fry veggies, for example mushrooms coated with eggs/breadcrumbs/flour tossed in boiling oil and bam, dense food my friend cuz that coating soaks up the oil like no tomorrow.

As how your veganism going i am not going to judge you about that, if that helped to you to get better, than everything is fine. Also i am getting reflux too from certain foods, for example tomato sauce is one of them, stuffed peppers, and different soups can bring me acid reflux, but i just do not care about that. Kinda painful but meh. **** can happen

[Grappa]

@MT this redistribution thing is also varies, i can slightly feel that my fat is evening out, when i was at early refeeding state all that fat went to my mid section, while i had chicken legs/spaghetti arms, i had that belly while my glute bones drilled holes in my chair it was funny But keep in mind my situation is not the same as most of yours. I was not just skinny, i was not stupid shredded or slightly underweight. I was severley malnourished, i slimmed down to 43-45kg (99 lbs). I have gained 17 kg(37 lbs) in less than a year, and i have to gain almost the same, to get my pre ed weight back. So i have to gain a whooping 60-65 pound total. And the physical symptoms man... THat is hardcore. Hormones kicking back again, hypermetabolism at it's finest. Yes i am at "healthy" weight but a lot of **** going on my body still what is not normal.

[AdamWW]

When i was under physiological support i have asked my therapist about veganism, cuz i have seen a fkload of peeps go vegan on anorexia recovery, i tought that is cuz banana n shiet is easily digestable and when u are malnourished your digestive system is really off.. RIP cheese in my entire life.... Back to the lines, i wanted to go vegan, ( kinda morbid, cuz i am a hunter. would be funny if after the hunt i would sit at the hunter's feast while cowered in blood, and tossing away the stew and saying no thx i am vegan. xD) and she told me, those who are going vegan/paleo etc bullcrap on recovery they will restrict themselves. Keep in mind if u are vegan you ar enot eating meat, if u are doing paleo, well i do not know much about paleo but it is a diet, so i think that restrict something. She told me just eat like a regular guy and everything will be okay. So i have started to eat like my friends, parents etc.. And it turned out awesome. As how your veggie intake goes, well i can agree with sonny, that veggies taste like crap, but here in hungary we deep fry veggies, for example mushrooms coated with eggs/breadcrumbs/flour tossed in boiling oil and bam, dense food my friend cuz that coating soaks up the oil like no tomorrow.

As how your veganism going i am not going to judge you about that, if that helped to you to get better, than everything is fine. Also i am getting reflux too from certain foods, for example tomato sauce is one of them, stuffed peppers, and different soups can bring me acid reflux, but i just do not care about that. Kinda painful but meh. **** can happen

You're right that many, MANY people do go toward veganism/vegetarianism as a means to stay in the restrictive cycle, and perhaps it did start that way with me. Now, though, I can say with 100% honesty that is NOT the reason. I'm not saying it HELPS me, because if anything it does make things harder, but it is not because it helps me restrict. I know enough about high-calorie vegan foods to know I can put on weight with the options I have.

My reflux, sadly, is more than a discomfort... it it debilitating when it gets bad, to the point where I can barely bend over after large meals from certain foods without wanting to puke.

Simply put, I just need more calorie-dense foods and less fiber, etc, and to give into my cravings when they come up related to food types, not just calories.

Things ARE getting better.. i'm getting stronger.. and I do 'feel' my body feeling better a little bit every day.

[MosToorani]

@Sonny

My current stats are 5'7" @ 150lbs (as of today).. and i already have a large gut (so i guess i'm not in such a bad state?) ... but yes, the symptoms that i'm feeling are exactly what Adam described. I'm cold all the time, hungry all the time.

I want to get help but unfortunately, I live in a developing country (Bahrain, Middle East) and we do not have experts in this field. So the only people i can talk to are my family members and all they advice is "why don't you just eat?" .. well, it's easier said than done.

So what do you recommend? What advice can you give me?

I track calories, weigh food etc. 2,100 a day (on and off gym) ..

When i decide not to track calories or weigh my food .. my brain goes ballistic .. my OCD kicks in and i ALWAYS, ALWAYS end up overestimating my food intake and wake up the next day weighing less.. why? because i avoid eating the food that are calorific .. However, on days that i track intake, i eat everything, ice cream or chocolate etc .. as long as i 'account' for it.

Additionally, my fat intake is low ... maybe 20-30 grams a day, MAX. Why? Because I love carbs much, much more .. love veggies and love cereal!

I'm in desperate need of help (obviously). strength has gone down in the gym

MT ..

[AdamWW]

@MT

Could you briefly recap your history/ED story?

I don't recall specifically your past.

[MosToorani]

@MT

Could you briefly recap your history/ED story?

I don't recall specifically your past.

I'll be stating it in KGs and CM :P

Around 2009, I used to weigh about 170 - 180 KG .. then over the course of 2 years or so, I went on an atkins diet and managed to lower my weight until 100 KG ..

and since 2012 till today, I've been on a caloric deficit (yo-yo dieting) until today, which i weigh 68KGs.

My current stats are 176 cm, 68 KGs ..

I've never bulked in my life .. never .. I've been losing weight for the past 8-9 years as i was morbidly obese ..

Any other info? I'll share any info you need. any.

MT

[AdamWW]

@MT

Got it.

So, I don't know much about people 'coming back' from weight loss from a very high weight (congrats by the way, that's awesome), I really only have experience being a bit chubby and then slimming way, way down.

However, I do think that your calorie intake being what it is and your fat intake being SO low you're suffering from lack of proper energy intake and probably not getting near enough fat.

Chronically underconsuming fat will undoubtedly cause your hormones to go out of wack, and if you couple that with lower calories while trying to exercise, you're just going to get weaker because you cannot recover from the workouts.

The generally accepted minimums for fat intake should be about .4-.45x your weight in pounds... so you'd need something like 65-70 at a MINIMUM.

In addition to that, you really should try to increase calories and see if it helps your energy. Even if it's just a little bit or placing more carbs/calories prior to training, you have to experiment to find something like gives you more energy to perform and function.

I think you're just very used to dieting so it comes easy, but you're not going to feel motivated to train or get strong if you're stuck in diet/cut mode.

[MosToorani]

@AdamWW

I've been consuming less fat on purpose in order to eat more carbs for satiety and volume reasons ..

Just under the impression that 60-70 grams of fat = 540 - 630 cals .. I could eat about 150 grams of carbs .. double the amount and more volume ..

I'll take the bulk seriously after i come back from my trip (coming sunday).

I'm just desperate to gain strength and size but just the amount that i'm eating is low i guess? I don't know.

MT

[AdamWW]

@AdamWW

I've been consuming less fat on purpose in order to eat more carbs for satiety and volume reasons ..

Just under the impression that 60-70 grams of fat = 540 - 630 cals .. I could eat about 150 grams of carbs .. double the amount and more volume ..

I'll take the bulk seriously after i come back from my trip (coming sunday).

I'm just desperate to gain strength and size but just the amount that i'm eating is low i guess? I don't know.

MT

I would hope your health is more important than eating more volume....

If you're eating too little fat on purpose, you're hurting your body on purpose.

Why would you wait until Monday to make a good decision? Get some trail mix or whatever and try consuming more fat and see how you feel...

[MosToorani]

I would hope your health is more important than eating more volume....

If you're eating too little fat on purpose, you're hurting your body on purpose.

Why would you wait until Monday to make a good decision? Get some trail mix or whatever and try consuming more fat and see how you feel...

You're absolutely right .. my health matters more ..

Reason why monday (sunday actually) is because i'm going on a short vacation today (Guns n Roses concert!! WOOOOP!), which means no calories will be counted and the people around me love food, hence will motivate me to eat anyways! haha

MT

[partydave]

I'm managing to eat more (almost to the point of binging) but I'm still constantly worried about gaining weight. Urgh!

[MosToorani]

I'm managing to eat more (almost to the point of binging) but I'm still constantly worried about gaining weight. Urgh!

I'm sorry but .. what are your stats?

I know I'm probably just talking the talk rather than walking the walk (if that makes sense) but .. look at it from a 'fueling yourself' point of view .. eat more and wreck havoc in the gym!

MT

[partydave]

I'm sorry but .. what are your stats?

I know I'm probably just talking the talk rather than walking the walk (if that makes sense) but .. look at it from a 'fueling yourself' point of view .. eat more and wreck havoc in the gym!

MT

Fairly new to lifting (started F5 3 weeks ago), but was doing street workouts for a year before than and been cycling for most of my adult life. 3 x week lifting on beginner F5, 4 - 5 a week cycling average roughly 5-8 hours a week depending on what I'm training for

I'm 1.7m "tall", 67kg, BF% around 12ish

Squat: 65kg
Bench: 75kg
DL: 65kg

[partydave]

and averaging between 2000 - 2400 calories for now. Was struggling to hit 1600 a week ago

[MosToorani]

and averaging between 2000 - 2400 calories for now. Was struggling to hit 1600 a week ago

Keep going at it buddy!

With your stats and the amount of work you're doing (lifting + cycling), I honestly believe that you should be eating probably more than 2.4k!

MT

[partydave]

Keep going at it buddy!

With your stats and the amount of work you're doing (lifting + cycling), I honestly believe that you should be eating probably more than 2.4k!

MT

Baby steps!

I came from weighing 106kg, at 170cm, that put my bf% at around "all of it". This is what keeps me from enjoying food...going back to that fat disgusting slob

[MosToorani]

Baby steps!

I came from weighing 106kg, at 170cm, that put my bf% at around "all of it". This is what keeps me from enjoying food...going back to that fat disgusting slob

I can completely relate to this ..

I used to weigh 160-180 KGs (i was so scared to even look at the scale!) at 176 cm .. then slimmed down to 67-68 KGs .. Nevertheless, we have to fight this mental disorder .. at the end of the day, it's not worth the mental/health risks ..

I was at my happiest moments in life when I was obese .. not healthy for sure, but at least happy.

Can't wait to be happy again ..

Keep in mind though, the road to recovery is a long one with many obstacles on the way and we can get through it.

MT