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  1. #91
    Registered User MosToorani's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    You're thinking of the entire process from the wrong point of view.

    Dissecting every last calorie and trying 'hit a mark' instead of listening to your body's needs for fuel is not recovering, it's still disordered thinking.

    The idea of recovery is to fuel yourself based on energy needs as reflected in gym performance, sense of well-being, mental focus, etc., not on an arbitrary number that is impossible to predict.

    Some days you'll be SUPER HUNGRY and you'll need way more fuel, some days maybe you'll need less. Who knows?

    I strongly suggest you stop calculating... stop weighing yourself.. stop putting a 'rate of gain' as your goal. The important thing is how you FEEL... if you're eating in a way where you feel GOOD, HAPPY, FREE, ENERGETIC, STRONG, then you're doing it right.

    If you're hungry, eat. It's as simple as that. If you're feeling sluggish or low on energy, try eating. see if it improves it. Just eat until you feel like, "hmmm, I think I'm done eating.. i'm satisfied now". Then just stop eating until you feel like eating again.

    It's really that simple, even if it seems more complicated.

    I mean, hell, what if I asked you what the ideal number of breaths was to take in a day? Would you try to calculate the optimal amount? Probably not, you'd probably tell me that I need to breathe when I need air. How about water? Would you have a specific amount of water you'd tell me to drink? Probably not, right? Same goes for food. It's a biological need... if you feel like you need it, eat it.
    Wow .. yes .. so true ..

    its the fear of weight gain .. i know it is .. but it's so difficult to just accept that weight gain is fine .. i always have the fear that the weight gain is mainly fat and not muscle .. but as Sonny said earlier ... I should celebrate it ..

    man, this is so fuarkin difficult ..

    I'll try to go to bed now.. goodnight lads ..
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  2. #92
    Making Vegan Gains AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MosToorani View Post
    Wow .. yes .. so true ..

    its the fear of weight gain .. i know it is .. but it's so difficult to just accept that weight gain is fine .. i always have the fear that the weight gain is mainly fat and not muscle .. but as Sonny said earlier ... I should celebrate it ..

    man, this is so fuarkin difficult ..

    I'll try to go to bed now.. goodnight lads ..
    Almost nothing worth doing is easy

    I am right there with you, believe me.

    I am actually considering chronically my experience with videos in the event it helps others, but I am a bit hesitant to do so because i'm a tad camera shy.

    Still, might make for a good tool for others.
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  3. #93
    Registered User Grappa's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MosToorani View Post
    I need help with the following, if you could.

    So as i've mentioned earlier in this thread .. i do 3x a week full body .. and probably get 10k steps a day (disc hernia post operation recovery).

    and, honestly, I'm afraid of eating more than 2.1k a day (rest and workout day) ..

    My question is .. is it a "normal figure" to eat 2.1k and gain weight? I don't know how to make my question clearer .. Basically, does it make sense that with the amount i'm eating i should EXPECT to gain 1-2 lbs a month? or is my body/hormones so fuarked up that it doesn't make sense for a 28 year old, 176 cm male ADULT to eat ONLY that amount of cals?

    Maybe I'm just jealous of people eating more? Or maybe I'm just overestimating how much i SHOULD be eating?

    Should I just face the reality that 2.1k is sufficient and move on?

    MT
    Keep in mind sedentary men should eat more than that. Depending on your height/weight/activity level. This amout is nowhere near what should eating. 10k steps a day is a lot i HAVE to walk that amount a day, cuz i can not avoid walking. I know from fact it is a lot.
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  4. #94
    Registered User Strength93's Avatar
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    I didnít notice that a new thread had been created so Iím just catching up on it. One thing we can do to not clog the thread is to write @(insert username) instead of quoting each othersí (often very long) posts. It was something that determined4000 (may he rest in peace) suggested in the previous Eating Disorder Support Thread.
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  5. #95
    Making Vegan Gains AdamWW's Avatar
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    ^^^Good idea.
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  6. #96
    Registered User clk99's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    That isn't fat. Your abs 'disappearing' has nothing to do with it being fat vs. water. There are days where I wake up with veiny abs and paper-thin skin and look shredded. Then other days where my water levels rise and I look puffy and my abs are blurry.

    it's WATER...

    But that's beside the point. You need to stop looking at your stomach. Stop weighing yourself. These are obviously triggers for your ED and restriction. If weighing yourself and registering slightly above yesterday or seeing your abs just even slightly blurry for ONE day because of water weight makes you this upset... what was the point in weighing yourself or looking? That's not self-love... that's self harm.

    Start loving yourself and not torturing yourself. You don't deserve punishment, you deserve to feel good.
    After giving it some time you were right, it was just water retention and my skin is somewhat back to normal. How exactly are you able to tell (by pinching) the difference though? I know I shouldn't bodycheck anymore...for awhile I was doing great but sometimes I just have bad days. Bodychecking is the real trigger now, I don't think the scale has much influence on me nowadays if any. If I don't get to a certain weight my parents will be upset with me (and already are) so it's inevitable.

    You're 100% right though, and thanks. I've been struggling with some separate issues too so those combined with eating+body image have been affecting my happiness and general well-being a LOT lately and I need to work on finding balance in my life, especially with relationships and hobbies. Been making some improvement since last time I posted here though so that's something.
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  7. #97
    Registered User clk99's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bonnappe View Post
    Exactly, I just enjoy it. Where does the desire to play video games come from? Some people enjoy it, that's how I feel about my binges
    It's completely okay to enjoy food. It should be naturally enjoyed and many people here have struggled or currently struggle with grasping that concept.

    The issue in your case is moderation. Staying up all night playing video games is damaging to your health and is a case of not exercising moderation in your enjoyment. Same goes for eating 1,000 or 10,000 calories a day.
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  8. #98
    Registered User clk99's Avatar
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    Been focusing/thinking about food much less than normal over the past few days which is a great mental improvement for me since I tend to agonize over food so much. Almost feel like I'm growing uninterested in food, although now I'm made to eat three distinct meals a day which is new for me. By uninterested I mean I'm not thinking about food in my free time, not thinking about what I ate or what I'm going to eat and how it relates to my activity levels, etc. Only thinking about food when it's set in front of me at a meal.

    Problem is, my intake has easily been lower lately than what it usually was...meaning I'm probably losing whatever I've gained so far. I don't like to check my weight so often I'm obsessed with it but I will on Monday to see my progress.
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  9. #99
    Registered User MosToorani's Avatar
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    After reading the struggles that people are going through in this forum, i've decided to list down the issues that i believe i'm facing and i hope you guys can chime in into how i could start to "fix" it.

    1) satiety .. i can eat a lot .. no joke .. i've done a few eating competitions in the past and i can easily eat a lot of food.. i fill myself up with protein fluff, 1 kg of lettuce, 1 kg of carrots every night just to feel 'satisfied'. i hate going to bed hungry.

    2) my craving/love for candy, ice cream and cereal. These are obviously high in calories and would provide with the least amount of satiety .. hence why i dwell on the amount of calories i eat in a day .. Of course, if i ate more 'calories' then i'd have an easier pathway to satiety.

    3) weight gain that does not correlate with strength gains .. it depresses me if i gain weight but not strength in the gym.. especially on the compound lifts.

    4) i think about food all the time .. literally .. from morning til i sleep.. i dwell over what 'nice, delicious' treats i can eat and still manage to eat veggies/fruits to help me feel 'full'.

    5) everytime i try to move away from micromanaging my intake .. i end up under eating because of this little arse of a voice in my head that tells me "don't eat this, it's high in calories and you'll probably surpass your daily intake... you'll gain unnecessary weight without any strength gains"

    so yeah .. it's early in the morning .. i'm at work .. and i'm thinking about food and what to eat today.. what 'treat' to have today..

    basically, the above is just a few things that popped in my head .. main issue is satiety i guess?

    Can you guys help? We don't have professionals here unfortunately. 3rd world issues..

    cheers!

    MT
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  10. #100
    Registered User MosToorani's Avatar
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    @Grappa

    Thank you for the reply .. I'd love to eat more but this worry of gaining weight which does not correlate with strength/muscle worries me unbelievably.. I've always been under the assumption that the best weight gain per month is ~ 1kg/2.2 lbs..
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  11. #101
    Registered User Grappa's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MosToorani View Post
    After reading the struggles that people are going through in this forum, i've decided to list down the issues that i believe i'm facing and i hope you guys can chime in into how i could start to "fix" it.

    1) satiety .. i can eat a lot .. no joke .. i've done a few eating competitions in the past and i can easily eat a lot of food.. i fill myself up with protein fluff, 1 kg of lettuce, 1 kg of carrots every night just to feel 'satisfied'. i hate going to bed hungry.

    2) my craving/love for candy, ice cream and cereal. These are obviously high in calories and would provide with the least amount of satiety .. hence why i dwell on the amount of calories i eat in a day .. Of course, if i ate more 'calories' then i'd have an easier pathway to satiety.

    3) weight gain that does not correlate with strength gains .. it depresses me if i gain weight but not strength in the gym.. especially on the compound lifts.

    4) i think about food all the time .. literally .. from morning til i sleep.. i dwell over what 'nice, delicious' treats i can eat and still manage to eat veggies/fruits to help me feel 'full'.

    5) everytime i try to move away from micromanaging my intake .. i end up under eating because of this little arse of a voice in my head that tells me "don't eat this, it's high in calories and you'll probably surpass your daily intake... you'll gain unnecessary weight without any strength gains"

    so yeah .. it's early in the morning .. i'm at work .. and i'm thinking about food and what to eat today.. what 'treat' to have today..

    basically, the above is just a few things that popped in my head .. main issue is satiety i guess?

    Can you guys help? We don't have professionals here unfortunately. 3rd world issues..

    cheers!

    MT
    Once you start eating more, you will gain strength. Trust me. Also sonny land me a pm, i have some questions about lifting cuz i think we are doing the same upper/lower stuff
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  12. #102
    Registered User MosToorani's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Grappa View Post
    Once you start eating more, you will gain strength. Trust me. Also sonny land me a pm, i have some questions about lifting cuz i think we are doing the same upper/lower stuff
    I'm also interested in your lifting split .. May you share it please?

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  13. #103
    Registered User Grappa's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MosToorani View Post
    I'm also interested in your lifting split .. May you share it please?

    MT
    Yes i can, but keep in mind, i am new to lifting, so i have no idea if it is optimal or not. A little background: all my life i was thin, but when i have started martial arts i have gained a kinda respectful size, i was strong, muscular agile, felxible etc. When i have done martial arts i used to do a lots of gpp, a fkton. Waiter's walk, farmer's walk, bear hugs etc. I used to train in high volume. Also you have to know what is your weakness, and what is your strongness. Kenpo is similar to mma, you can fight while you stand, and on the ground. Genetically wider guys better at ground fights, those who have long arms/legs are better at standing fights, cuz u can keep a good distance, but once you are at the ground you are fked. Cuz of this my back was strong, my core also, and especially my legs. I had to have a really solid balance in order to not get into situations where i have to fight on the ground. Cuz of this, and i can really feel, my legs are strong, my back also, but my chest/shoulder.... is a mess. I do an upper/lower split. 2 days i go heavy as fk, 3 days i go high volume, i drop the weights and increase the reps. The core of my workouts focuses on compounds, and i rareley isolate. Only thing i isolate is my shoulders. I do the following on workouts: power days: get in, max out get home. Volume days: get in blast myself with volume and get home. I rotate some lifts, for example rack pulls, pendlay rows, and benching. My shoulders/chest needs more frequency, that is why i do upper body 3 times a week. BUt i can feel my past, my legs and my back is strong, but my chest and shoulder is srsly lagging. For example, i can deadlift 180kg for 1 rep, i can squat 140 kg for reps, i can do chin ups with a 25 kg plate on me, but i am unable to fking to more on ohp than 40 kg.... Also on my power days i throw in some gpp, etc. You should know your limits and lift that way. For example i rareley do reps for failure, almost never. I know i have 1-2 more reps left in my tank, but i do not want to drain the fk out from myself.
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  14. #104
    Making Vegan Gains AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MosToorani View Post
    I'm also interested in your lifting split .. May you share it please?

    MT
    I would recommend minimalist training (low volume, higher frequency) for people who are recovering from ED's especially if you're at a low weight. If you're new to training, even better.

    You'll get the best results hitting everything every other day.
    Last edited by AdamWW; 02-26-2017 at 09:38 AM.
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  15. #105
    Registered User MosToorani's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    I would recommend minimalist training (low volume, higher frequency) for people who are recovering from ED's especially if you're at a low weight. If you're new to training, even better.

    You'll get the best results hitting everything every other day.
    Hence full body 3x a week is good?
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    Making Vegan Gains AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MosToorani View Post
    Hence full body 3x a week is good?
    full body 3x per week is basically the proven ideal for 99% of people who have less than one year of good, consistent training under their belt and (if you're a male) have yet to reach the following (approximately):

    225 bench press
    315 squat
    405 deadlift
    135 overhead press

    This is especially true if you are underweight or restricting, because it will optimize the amount of time between sessions for your body to heal, unlike training 5 days a week with little/no breaks.

    That being said, it is also possible to make very good progress with an upper/lower or push/pull routine wherein every musclegroup gets hit 2x per week. Something like this:

    Monday: PUSH (Squats, Bench, Delts, Accessories)
    Tuesday: PULL (Deadlifts, Rows, Chins, Accesories)
    Wednesday: OFF
    Thursday: Same as Monday
    Friday: Same as Tuesday
    Sat - Sun: OFF

    OR...

    Monday: UPPER
    Tuesday: LOWER
    Wednesday: OFF
    Thursday: Same as Monday
    Friday: Same as Tuesday
    Sat - Sun: OFF

    The idea is to focus only on getting stronger week/week or session/session.
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    Deadlift - 405
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  17. #107
    Registered User MosToorani's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    full body 3x per week is basically the proven ideal for 99% of people who have less than one year of good, consistent training under their belt and (if you're a male) have yet to reach the following (approximately):

    225 bench press
    315 squat
    405 deadlift
    135 overhead press

    This is especially true if you are underweight or restricting, because it will optimize the amount of time between sessions for your body to heal, unlike training 5 days a week with little/no breaks.

    That being said, it is also possible to make very good progress with an upper/lower or push/pull routine wherein every musclegroup gets hit 2x per week. Something like this:

    Monday: PUSH (Squats, Bench, Delts, Accessories)
    Tuesday: PULL (Deadlifts, Rows, Chins, Accesories)
    Wednesday: OFF
    Thursday: Same as Monday
    Friday: Same as Tuesday
    Sat - Sun: OFF

    OR...

    Monday: UPPER
    Tuesday: LOWER
    Wednesday: OFF
    Thursday: Same as Monday
    Friday: Same as Tuesday
    Sat - Sun: OFF

    The idea is to focus only on getting stronger week/week or session/session.
    Well said .. I stopped lifting for more than a year due to my herniated disc .. got an operation done then recovery etc ..

    So when I got back to 3x full body routine per week, i got stronger.. couldn't bench with weights but now i bench 94 lbs .. in about 8 months? feel like i was spinning my wheel due to fear of gaining weight ..

    deadlift improved as well .. from 90 lbs to 215 lbs .. I stopped squatting though .. fear of another injury .. would rather not risk it..

    oh well .. i'll be going on a short break at the end of the week and i hope i come back with a clearer mind and take this bulk seriously...
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  18. #108
    Making Vegan Gains AdamWW's Avatar
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    Eric has some very good insight on BED:

    Current 5x5 Goals:

    OHP - 135
    Bench - 225
    Squat - 315
    Deadlift - 405
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  19. #109
    Registered User Grappa's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    full body 3x per week is basically the proven ideal for 99% of people who have less than one year of good, consistent training under their belt and (if you're a male) have yet to reach the following (approximately):

    225 bench press
    315 squat
    405 deadlift
    135 overhead press

    This is especially true if you are underweight or restricting, because it will optimize the amount of time between sessions for your body to heal, unlike training 5 days a week with little/no breaks.

    That being said, it is also possible to make very good progress with an upper/lower or push/pull routine wherein every musclegroup gets hit 2x per week. Something like this:

    Monday: PUSH (Squats, Bench, Delts, Accessories)
    Tuesday: PULL (Deadlifts, Rows, Chins, Accesories)
    Wednesday: OFF
    Thursday: Same as Monday
    Friday: Same as Tuesday
    Sat - Sun: OFF

    OR...

    Monday: UPPER
    Tuesday: LOWER
    Wednesday: OFF
    Thursday: Same as Monday
    Friday: Same as Tuesday
    Sat - Sun: OFF

    The idea is to focus only on getting stronger week/week or session/session.
    Holy fk i almost got the dl+ squat number o_O
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  20. #110
    Making Vegan Gains AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Grappa View Post
    Holy fk i almost got the dl+ squat number o_O
    I miss those days.

    I can get back there though... I've done it before in only 3-4 months when I bulked

    I got to:

    Bench: 245 x 1
    Deadlift: 405 x1
    Squat: 275 x 1

    My squat has always been my weekness

    I had to reach 173lb before I could do it though... so hopefully if I gain about 35-40lbs i'll be able again!
    Current 5x5 Goals:

    OHP - 135
    Bench - 225
    Squat - 315
    Deadlift - 405
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    @MosToorani

    Wow nr. 1,2,3,4 and 5 is the excact same things I struggle with!
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    Originally Posted by Grappa View Post
    Once you start eating more, you will gain strength. Trust me. Also sonny land me a pm, i have some questions about lifting cuz i think we are doing the same upper/lower stuff
    Shoot me a PM man!
    Been playing with shafts and balls since '75.
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  23. #113
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    Originally Posted by Strength93 View Post
    @MosToorani

    Wow nr. 1,2,3,4 and 5 is the excact same things I struggle with!
    I know how you feel then ..

    I know the issues that i'm facing but I don't know how to face/solve them ..

    Can anyone here help?
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    Making Vegan Gains AdamWW's Avatar
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    Happy to report that every main lift improved in the gym today.

    The last couple days have been 100% by the book: no restriction, eating in accordance with cravings and energy needs (whether it be physical or mental cravings/hunger). And today, for the first time in a long time, I felt strong in the gym... looked forward to each lift.

    Feeling good.
    Current 5x5 Goals:

    OHP - 135
    Bench - 225
    Squat - 315
    Deadlift - 405
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Happy to report that every main lift improved in the gym today.

    The last couple days have been 100% by the book: no restriction, eating in accordance with cravings and energy needs (whether it be physical or mental cravings/hunger). And today, for the first time in a long time, I felt strong in the gym... looked forward to each lift.

    Feeling good.
    That's excellent! So happy to hear that man!

    May it continue forever!
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    I can't seem to get my emotions around higher intake. I forced myself to eat at 2500-3500 calories over the weekend but I felt disappointed in myself when I thought about my intake
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    Originally Posted by partydave View Post
    I can't seem to get my emotions around higher intake. I forced myself to eat at 2500-3500 calories over the weekend but I felt disappointed in myself when I thought about my intake
    What made you feel disappointed?

    MT
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  28. #118
    Making Vegan Gains AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by partydave View Post
    I can't seem to get my emotions around higher intake. I forced myself to eat at 2500-3500 calories over the weekend but I felt disappointed in myself when I thought about my intake
    But how did your body feel? Energized? Satisfied?

    The next time you start reflecting on numbers, ask yourself out loud, "how does my body feel".
    Use that to replace thoughts of "how do I feel ABOUT my body". You're in a place wherein your mind is completely misreading the situation... you gotta fight back at it and tell it to fuk off

    Guess what? I'm going to bed tonight full... which means tonight I won't feel all cold and weak like usual. Regardless of what my brain thinks about my body, my body feels great!
    Current 5x5 Goals:

    OHP - 135
    Bench - 225
    Squat - 315
    Deadlift - 405
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  29. #119
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    But how did your body feel? Energized? Satisfied?

    The next time you start reflecting on numbers, ask yourself out loud, "how does my body feel".
    Use that to replace thoughts of "how do I feel ABOUT my body". You're in a place wherein your mind is completely misreading the situation... you gotta fight back at it and tell it to fuk off

    Guess what? I'm going to bed tonight full... which means tonight I won't feel all cold and weak like usual. Regardless of what my brain thinks about my body, my body feels great!
    Once again, I've got to give it to you mate.. Hats off!

    I'm hoping to be in that state one day ..
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  30. #120
    Making Vegan Gains AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MosToorani View Post
    Once again, I've got to give it to you mate.. Hats off!

    I'm hoping to be in that state one day ..
    How about tomorrow? Gotta start somewhere

    I'm still just starting out myself!
    Current 5x5 Goals:

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    Deadlift - 405
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