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  1. #61
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    Originally Posted by MosToorani View Post
    So sorry to hear this .. I used to be on the same page until I realized that life is so much more than worrying about calories..

    Honestly though, I'm on a similar page .. I'm worried/afraid that i'll gain weight and the majority of it being fat rather than muscle ..

    Stay strong brother.. We'll get through this eventually ..
    Thank you and good luck to you too
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  2. #62
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    Originally Posted by partydave View Post
    2257 calories vs my usual calories, but an empty victory. Every bite I took, I was worried how it's going to cause me to pick up a ton of weight
    Do not be afraid of food, food is fuel. If i do not have to deal with hypermetabolism i would not going under that 3500 cals a day that would be my minimum target, keep in mind i have to walk a lot every day, yes it is just walking but that adds up. I have to walk to school, walk my dog. I was intrested how much i walk a day and it is between 6-7 km. PER DAY! That adds up, on top of that when i go to hunting that would be my all out binge day, vuz during saturdays i walk minimum 30km with extra resistance on me. On that day iwithout hypermetabolism i would push my limit up to 5-6k.
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  3. #63
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    Originally Posted by Grappa View Post
    Do not be afraid of food, food is fuel. If i do not have to deal with hypermetabolism i would not going under that 3500 cals a day that would be my minimum target, keep in mind i have to walk a lot every day, yes it is just walking but that adds up. I have to walk to school, walk my dog. I was intrested how much i walk a day and it is between 6-7 km. PER DAY! That adds up, on top of that when i go to hunting that would be my all out binge day, vuz during saturdays i walk minimum 30km with extra resistance on me. On that day iwithout hypermetabolism i would push my limit up to 5-6k.
    Speaking of walking .. I walk at least 10k steps a day .. which is about 6-7km .. yet i eat 2,100 calories a day .. pfft
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  4. #64
    Immovable Object AdamWW's Avatar
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    Well, I think I need to go back to not writing down my foods/calories/macros or weighing myself. The temptation gets too distracting and I start pondering the contents of my meals.

    Seems like cold turkey might be my best bet after all. Weighing myself and registering over the previous days number still triggers me too. I've gained weight but simply knowing how much causes bad emotions.
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  5. #65
    Registered User Grappa's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Well, I think I need to go back to not writing down my foods/calories/macros or weighing myself. The temptation gets too distracting and I start pondering the contents of my meals.

    Seems like cold turkey might be my best bet after all. Weighing myself and registering over the previous days number still triggers me too. I've gained weight but simply knowing how much causes bad emotions.
    Just for u i have tracked my intake today to encourage you to pick up the fork and eat. Here is the day: 190p/870c/125f total: 5365cals. Activity: walking my doge, upper volume. DO NOT be afraid of food food is fuel. moar fuel better performance, better performance=better workouts
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  6. #66
    Immovable Object AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Grappa View Post
    Just for u i have tracked my intake today to encourage you to pick up the fork and eat. Here is the day: 190p/870c/125f total: 5365cals. Activity: walking my doge, upper volume. DO NOT be afraid of food food is fuel. moar fuel better performance, better performance=better workouts
    You can definitely eat.

    What you mention does bring up an important issue for me, which is the urge to 'earn' my food. I have no energy today... I barely slept... but I know I need to eat. I will, but it makes it hard. Consuming 4000 calories when I barely walk 500 steps and do not lift just isn't normal for me.
    Last edited by AdamWW; 02-23-2017 at 05:52 PM.
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  7. #67
    Registered User partydave's Avatar
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    I got on the scale this morning and went from 66kg to 68.7kg after less than a week of increased consumption. My mind immediately started thinking I should cut back to 1800 calories.
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  8. #68
    Registered User clk99's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bonnappe View Post
    Thank you for your post man, appreciate it a lot

    This just seems so crazy, everytime I finish a meal all I can think about is when do I get to eat next. Like the only time I'm not thinking about food or eating is when I'm sleeping
    Are you physically satiated after eating, but experiencing mental cravings? Or is your body actually demanding more food and that's why you're constantly wanting it? I know you've mentioned "binge eating" before but I don't really know your background other than that, sorry. I'm trying to recover from anorexia/orthorexia and in my initial stages of recovery I thought I was a binge eater but your case could be entirely different.

    For me, after every meal I agonize over whether or not I'm full (almost always feel the need for more) and start systematically planning out ways to satiate myself in as few calories as possible. I tend to drag it out and get a lot of anxiety over it, at this point I hardly enjoy food and it's something I've been struggling with lately. I tend to overthink everything, not just food and body image.
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  9. #69
    Registered User clk99's Avatar
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    Been really struggling lately. After over a week of not being able to do deliberate cardio/lifting while on a 2800+ calorie diet, I'm getting a real layer of stomach flab like I used to have and it makes me so distressed. I've only gained 1 lb on the scale yet my abs are disappearing so I know it's all fat. My parents are now involved in my recovery so I'm forced to eat more and not exercise whether I like it or not. I remember weighing more several months ago when I was consistently exercising so being forced to stop doesn't make sense; the muscle mass I had weighs more than stomach fat.

    I know I'm not supposed to be analyzing abs but I can't help it, and my past issues with body image are creeping up again. Obsessing over abs in an ED is so confusing to me...it seems so vain and selfish to be obsessed with them, yet in reality I'm extremely introverted and by no means a show-off. They're rarely seen by anybody but me, and if I was the only one who ever saw them it wouldn't change a thing. It's like I've built up so much self-identity in them that I can't let it go. There's an endless list of better things to live for but I've spent the last few nights feeling so distressed over this and I need to calm myself down.
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  10. #70
    Immovable Object AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by clk99 View Post
    Been really struggling lately. After over a week of not being able to do deliberate cardio/lifting while on a 2800+ calorie diet, I'm getting a real layer of stomach flab like I used to have and it makes me so distressed. I've only gained 1 lb on the scale yet my abs are disappearing so I know it's all fat. My parents are now involved in my recovery so I'm forced to eat more and not exercise whether I like it or not. I remember weighing more several months ago when I was consistently exercising so being forced to stop doesn't make sense; the muscle mass I had weighs more than stomach fat.

    I know I'm not supposed to be analyzing abs but I can't help it, and my past issues with body image are creeping up again. Obsessing over abs in an ED is so confusing to me...it seems so vain and selfish to be obsessed with them, yet in reality I'm extremely introverted and by no means a show-off. They're rarely seen by anybody but me, and if I was the only one who ever saw them it wouldn't change a thing. It's like I've built up so much self-identity in them that I can't let it go. There's an endless list of better things to live for but I've spent the last few nights feeling so distressed over this and I need to calm myself down.
    That isn't fat. Your abs 'disappearing' has nothing to do with it being fat vs. water. There are days where I wake up with veiny abs and paper-thin skin and look shredded. Then other days where my water levels rise and I look puffy and my abs are blurry.

    it's WATER...

    But that's beside the point. You need to stop looking at your stomach. Stop weighing yourself. These are obviously triggers for your ED and restriction. If weighing yourself and registering slightly above yesterday or seeing your abs just even slightly blurry for ONE day because of water weight makes you this upset... what was the point in weighing yourself or looking? That's not self-love... that's self harm.

    Start loving yourself and not torturing yourself. You don't deserve punishment, you deserve to feel good.
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  11. #71
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    Originally Posted by clk99 View Post
    Are you physically satiated after eating, but experiencing mental cravings? Or is your body actually demanding more food and that's why you're constantly wanting it? I know you've mentioned "binge eating" before but I don't really know your background other than that, sorry. I'm trying to recover from anorexia/orthorexia and in my initial stages of recovery I thought I was a binge eater but your case could be entirely different.

    For me, after every meal I agonize over whether or not I'm full (almost always feel the need for more) and start systematically planning out ways to satiate myself in as few calories as possible. I tend to drag it out and get a lot of anxiety over it, at this point I hardly enjoy food and it's something I've been struggling with lately. I tend to overthink everything, not just food and body image.
    Well tbh my issue is kinda weird, it really doesn't matter if I eat only 1000 kcals a day or binge eat 10 000 kcals a day, I still feel physically the same afterwards and the day after, it's just more fun to binge eat. Don't really know how to explain it better
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  12. #72
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    You can definitely eat.

    What you mention does bring up an important issue for me, which is the urge to 'earn' my food. I have no energy today... I barely slept... but I know I need to eat. I will, but it makes it hard. Consuming 4000 calories when I barely walk 500 steps and do not lift just isn't normal for me.
    Actually i am a terrible eater, i can FORCE myself to down around 4k, but after that i just make smart choiches, juices, junk food, pasta > potato, bread>potato fatty meat>lean meat, dried fruits etc. CANDY sugar, butter toffees etc.
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  13. #73
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    Originally Posted by Bonnappe View Post
    Well tbh my issue is kinda weird, it really doesn't matter if I eat only 1000 kcals a day or binge eat 10 000 kcals a day, I still feel physically the same afterwards and the day after, it's just more fun to binge eat. Don't really know how to explain it better
    Classic extreme hunger.

    There is a mental AND physical component do it. The only fix is to honor/respond to the hunger by eating until you are satisfied. Not in-pain from being stuffed, but satisfied.

    You are conditioning your mind to feel comfortable that food is not scarce and there is no restriction, but you're also giving your body fuel back that it's been deprived from.

    Imagine if you stayed awake for 2 weeks straight. You'd probably feel tired if you slept for 1 hour or 10, because you've accumulated so much sleep deprivation that you need to get back.

    For the record, many night when I eat dinner I am not all that hungry going into the meal. Then I eat a huge portion of food, and I'm twice as hungry as before I ate. It doesn't seem to make sense, but your body is telling you something.
    Last edited by AdamWW; 02-24-2017 at 11:06 AM.
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  14. #74
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    You can definitely eat.

    What you mention does bring up an important issue for me, which is the urge to 'earn' my food. I have no energy today... I barely slept... but I know I need to eat. I will, but it makes it hard. Consuming 4000 calories when I barely walk 500 steps and do not lift just isn't normal for me.
    You're still seeing exercise and food on the same continuum. In your case, they are completely different entities.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Classic extreme hunger.

    There is a mental AND physical component do it. The only fix is to honor/respond to the hunger by eating until you are satisfied. Not in-pain from being stuffed, but satisfied.

    You are conditioning your mind to feel comfortable that food is not scarce and there is no restriction, but you're also giving your body fuel back that it's been deprived from.

    Imagine if you stayed awake for 2 weeks straight. You'd probably feel tired if you slept for 1 hour or 10, because you've accumulated so much sleep deprivation that you need to get back.

    For the record, many night when I eat dinner I am not all that hungry going into the meal. Then I eat a huge portion of food, and I'm twice as hungry as before I ate. It doesn't seem to make sense, but your body is telling you something.
    Oh don't get me wrong, I can't remember the last time I actually got hungry (maybe my ED playing tricks with hunger cues, but seriously can't remember the last time I felt hungry, physically or mentally)
    I feel satisfied after eating only 1000 kcals in a day, I feel satisfied after eating 10 000 kcals in a day. I just don't seem to get hungry anymore which is odd so I don't think this is related to extreme hunger?

    Basically I just like eating huge amounts of junk food in one sitting and somehow somedays feel the need to do so which I obviously then justify by eating lower calories the day after which doesn't feel bad to me either as I do not feel hungry at all (again maybe my head playing tricks, not sure)
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    You can definitely eat.

    What you mention does bring up an important issue for me, which is the urge to 'earn' my food. I have no energy today... I barely slept... but I know I need to eat. I will, but it makes it hard. Consuming 4000 calories when I barely walk 500 steps and do not lift just isn't normal for me.
    Try to change your mindset this way: rest day = recovery/growth day. Also carb up day. I f i am right u do full body 3x right? If yes, you have to prepare your body for that.
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    Originally Posted by sonnydfrizzy View Post
    You're still seeing exercise and food on the same continuum. In your case, they are completely different entities.
    Oh I know, I was just sharing my realization. I actually think they should be separate for everyone.

    Exercise should be for fitness and endurance and performance.

    Diet should be fuel and general wellness and enjoyment.

    Both should make you feel good.
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    Originally Posted by Grappa View Post
    Try to change your mindset this way: rest day = recovery/growth day. Also carb up day. I f i am right u do full body 3x right? If yes, you have to prepare your body for that.
    Yeah I'm doing full body 3 times a week.

    Today has been going well. I lifted before lunch and am feeling great.

    Not tracking, just fueling.

    No idea how many calories. Just know it's a lot.
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    Immovable Object AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bonnappe View Post
    Oh don't get me wrong, I can't remember the last time I actually got hungry (maybe my ED playing tricks with hunger cues, but seriously can't remember the last time I felt hungry, physically or mentally)
    I feel satisfied after eating only 1000 kcals in a day, I feel satisfied after eating 10 000 kcals in a day. I just don't seem to get hungry anymore which is odd so I don't think this is related to extreme hunger?

    Basically I just like eating huge amounts of junk food in one sitting and somehow somedays feel the need to do so which I obviously then justify by eating lower calories the day after which doesn't feel bad to me either as I do not feel hungry at all (again maybe my head playing tricks, not sure)
    You enjoy eating large amounts of junk food but you're not hungry? Where does the desire come from if not some form of hunger?
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    One of my biggest pet peeves:

    "When you put on weight and lose your leanness, it is just water and glycogen. Do not worry, for you are not gaining fat! It is all mind games."

    This is perpetuating the wrong mindset. Telling someone who has restricted their intake so severely for so long that they are far leaner than physiologically (and psychologically) health that they are not gaining fat, it is all in their head, do not stress, etc is WRONG.

    It still frames the mindset that fat = bad and you won't be gaining fat when recovering. Fat gain in recovery is healthy and should be celebrated!

    THE SOONER you can embrace gaining weight and fat as a GOOD thing, the faster you can recover. Going from fearing fat to embracing and accepting weight and fat gain and recognizing you need more fat to be healthy enables you to expedite the recovery process.

    So sure, if you gained weight and look less lean, you probably gained fat.

    Did your family disown you? Did your body shut down? Did your friends like you less? Fat =/= your identity. Get healthy. Stop procrastinating recovery. And TAKE ACTION.

    Plus, learn to challenge yourself and recondition your mind to enjoy the process of eating new foods, eating more foods, and resting more often. It is amazing what your body is telling you if you listen.

    **this rant comes to you from an email I sent to someone who reached out to me.**
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    Originally Posted by sonnydfrizzy View Post
    One of my biggest pet peeves:

    "When you put on weight and lose your leanness, it is just water and glycogen. Do not worry, for you are not gaining fat! It is all mind games."

    This is perpetuating the wrong mindset. Telling someone who has restricted their intake so severely for so long that they are far leaner than physiologically (and psychologically) health that they are not gaining fat, it is all in their head, do not stress, etc is WRONG.

    It still frames the mindset that fat = bad and you won't be gaining fat when recovering. Fat gain in recovery is healthy and should be celebrated!

    THE SOONER you can embrace gaining weight and fat as a GOOD thing, the faster you can recover. Going from fearing fat to embracing and accepting weight and fat gain and recognizing you need more fat to be healthy enables you to expedite the recovery process.

    So sure, if you gained weight and look less lean, you probably gained fat.

    Did your family disown you? Did your body shut down? Did your friends like you less? Fat =/= your identity. Get healthy. Stop procrastinating recovery. And TAKE ACTION.

    Plus, learn to challenge yourself and recondition your mind to enjoy the process of eating new foods, eating more foods, and resting more often. It is amazing what your body is telling you if you listen.

    **this rant comes to you from an email I sent to someone who reached out to me.**
    This water retention thing depends on your starting point. When i started my refeeding, i was malnourished, really really slimmed down, i was skin and bones. The first week i have gained 10kg, i held a fkton of water, i was even unable to twist my ankle without pain, i could bareley walk. And after the 2-3 weeks, i have pissed for almost 3 days straight and i have dropped 8kg down. As how your "cuts" dissapear i can not say anything informative, cuz i had almost 0 muscle mass when i was at my worst so i just evened out. (ribcage started to dissapear, my face evened out etc). But i can agree with that you will and HAVE to gain fat to recover. Fat is something what acts on you as a living hormonal system. Regulates your hunger, increases your testosterone etc.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    You enjoy eating large amounts of junk food but you're not hungry? Where does the desire come from if not some form of hunger?
    Exactly, I just enjoy it. Where does the desire to play video games come from? Some people enjoy it, that's how I feel about my binges
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    Originally Posted by sonnydfrizzy View Post
    This is great, exactly what I was looking for. I cannot purely relate you guys but I'll do my best to raise some more awareness to those searching for help and someone to talk to.
    Kris Gethin

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  24. #84
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    Originally Posted by Kaged Muscle View Post
    This is great, exactly what I was looking for. I cannot purely relate you guys but I'll do my best to raise some more awareness to those searching for help and someone to talk to.
    Many thanks Kris.
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  25. #85
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    Originally Posted by sonnydfrizzy View Post
    One of my biggest pet peeves:

    "When you put on weight and lose your leanness, it is just water and glycogen. Do not worry, for you are not gaining fat! It is all mind games."

    This is perpetuating the wrong mindset. Telling someone who has restricted their intake so severely for so long that they are far leaner than physiologically (and psychologically) health that they are not gaining fat, it is all in their head, do not stress, etc is WRONG.

    It still frames the mindset that fat = bad and you won't be gaining fat when recovering. Fat gain in recovery is healthy and should be celebrated!

    THE SOONER you can embrace gaining weight and fat as a GOOD thing, the faster you can recover. Going from fearing fat to embracing and accepting weight and fat gain and recognizing you need more fat to be healthy enables you to expedite the recovery process.

    So sure, if you gained weight and look less lean, you probably gained fat.

    Did your family disown you? Did your body shut down? Did your friends like you less? Fat =/= your identity. Get healthy. Stop procrastinating recovery. And TAKE ACTION.

    Plus, learn to challenge yourself and recondition your mind to enjoy the process of eating new foods, eating more foods, and resting more often. It is amazing what your body is telling you if you listen.

    **this rant comes to you from an email I sent to someone who reached out to me.**
    I'm definitely guilty of telling people that 'it's just water' when they ask for feedback about short term weight gain or immediate losses in definition. In those situations, it truly IS just water weight gain, but that might not be the best approach.

    A better reaction is probably, "if it IS fat, you should celebrate it", as opposed to comforting with the thought of it just being water.
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  26. #86
    Immovable Object AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Grappa View Post
    This water retention thing depends on your starting point. When i started my refeeding, i was malnourished, really really slimmed down, i was skin and bones. The first week i have gained 10kg, i held a fkton of water, i was even unable to twist my ankle without pain, i could bareley walk. And after the 2-3 weeks, i have pissed for almost 3 days straight and i have dropped 8kg down. As how your "cuts" dissapear i can not say anything informative, cuz i had almost 0 muscle mass when i was at my worst so i just evened out. (ribcage started to dissapear, my face evened out etc). But i can agree with that you will and HAVE to gain fat to recover. Fat is something what acts on you as a living hormonal system. Regulates your hunger, increases your testosterone etc.
    Due to my carb intake my weight and appearance change HUGELY on a daily basis, so I agree that it is true fluctuations - especially early in the refeeding/extreme hunger phases - during recovery can be extreme and due to almost entirely water weight.

    But I do ALSO agree with what sonny is saying... it's less about surfacing the 'truth' of whether it's water or not. The point is, you shouldn't even be thinking about it at all - OR - if you are, then you should be HAPPY about the gain.
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  27. #87
    Immovable Object AdamWW's Avatar
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    Not to sidestep the existing responses but I wanted to share some positive vibes.

    Last 2 days have been excellent for me in terms of long-term outlook, food thoughts, and body image thoughts.

    I've been able to resist obsessing over weighing myself, have not been tracking a single calorie or macro, I've been honoring my hunger every chance I get, and have even been sleeping better as a result.

    Today is not a training day, simply a 'get stuff done' day (some left-over work, chores, house hunting, that kind of thing) and recovery day. My goal is to not consider the fact that I am not training in making my food decisions, but rather focus purely on hunger and food as fuel to function in an optimal way.

    Looking forward to a good, positive morning and afternoon!
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  28. #88
    Registered User MosToorani's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sonnydfrizzy View Post
    One of my biggest pet peeves:

    "When you put on weight and lose your leanness, it is just water and glycogen. Do not worry, for you are not gaining fat! It is all mind games."

    This is perpetuating the wrong mindset. Telling someone who has restricted their intake so severely for so long that they are far leaner than physiologically (and psychologically) health that they are not gaining fat, it is all in their head, do not stress, etc is WRONG.

    It still frames the mindset that fat = bad and you won't be gaining fat when recovering. Fat gain in recovery is healthy and should be celebrated!

    THE SOONER you can embrace gaining weight and fat as a GOOD thing, the faster you can recover. Going from fearing fat to embracing and accepting weight and fat gain and recognizing you need more fat to be healthy enables you to expedite the recovery process.

    So sure, if you gained weight and look less lean, you probably gained fat.

    Did your family disown you? Did your body shut down? Did your friends like you less? Fat =/= your identity. Get healthy. Stop procrastinating recovery. And TAKE ACTION.

    Plus, learn to challenge yourself and recondition your mind to enjoy the process of eating new foods, eating more foods, and resting more often. It is amazing what your body is telling you if you listen.

    **this rant comes to you from an email I sent to someone who reached out to me.**

    Loved this .. I need to engrave this in my mind ..

    Once again, loved it!
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    Registered User MosToorani's Avatar
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    I need help with the following, if you could.

    So as i've mentioned earlier in this thread .. i do 3x a week full body .. and probably get 10k steps a day (disc hernia post operation recovery).

    and, honestly, I'm afraid of eating more than 2.1k a day (rest and workout day) ..

    My question is .. is it a "normal figure" to eat 2.1k and gain weight? I don't know how to make my question clearer .. Basically, does it make sense that with the amount i'm eating i should EXPECT to gain 1-2 lbs a month? or is my body/hormones so fuarked up that it doesn't make sense for a 28 year old, 176 cm male ADULT to eat ONLY that amount of cals?

    Maybe I'm just jealous of people eating more? Or maybe I'm just overestimating how much i SHOULD be eating?

    Should I just face the reality that 2.1k is sufficient and move on?

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    Immovable Object AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MosToorani View Post
    I need help with the following, if you could.

    So as i've mentioned earlier in this thread .. i do 3x a week full body .. and probably get 10k steps a day (disc hernia post operation recovery).

    and, honestly, I'm afraid of eating more than 2.1k a day (rest and workout day) ..

    My question is .. is it a "normal figure" to eat 2.1k and gain weight? I don't know how to make my question clearer .. Basically, does it make sense that with the amount i'm eating i should EXPECT to gain 1-2 lbs a month? or is my body/hormones so fuarked up that it doesn't make sense for a 28 year old, 176 cm male ADULT to eat ONLY that amount of cals?

    Maybe I'm just jealous of people eating more? Or maybe I'm just overestimating how much i SHOULD be eating?

    Should I just face the reality that 2.1k is sufficient and move on?

    MT
    You're thinking of the entire process from the wrong point of view.

    Dissecting every last calorie and trying 'hit a mark' instead of listening to your body's needs for fuel is not recovering, it's still disordered thinking.

    The idea of recovery is to fuel yourself based on energy needs as reflected in gym performance, sense of well-being, mental focus, etc., not on an arbitrary number that is impossible to predict.

    Some days you'll be SUPER HUNGRY and you'll need way more fuel, some days maybe you'll need less. Who knows?

    I strongly suggest you stop calculating... stop weighing yourself.. stop putting a 'rate of gain' as your goal. The important thing is how you FEEL... if you're eating in a way where you feel GOOD, HAPPY, FREE, ENERGETIC, STRONG, then you're doing it right.

    If you're hungry, eat. It's as simple as that. If you're feeling sluggish or low on energy, try eating. see if it improves it. Just eat until you feel like, "hmmm, I think I'm done eating.. i'm satisfied now". Then just stop eating until you feel like eating again.

    It's really that simple, even if it seems more complicated.

    I mean, hell, what if I asked you what the ideal number of breaths was to take in a day? Would you try to calculate the optimal amount? Probably not, you'd probably tell me that I need to breathe when I need air. How about water? Would you have a specific amount of water you'd tell me to drink? Probably not, right? Same goes for food. It's a biological need... if you feel like you need it, eat it.
    Last edited by AdamWW; 02-25-2017 at 11:38 AM.
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