Eating Disorder Support Thread: "Take Action" (part 3)

[AdamWW]

What if I want to try stopping weightlifting to see how it works out? I do want to eat more, but I would feel like its going to make me just fat if I don't weightlift.
If My body haves high cortisol, is under stress from extra stress and anxiety. strength training could put the body into more recoverying make it harder to recover?

free test was around 300 ish. I'm not sure on the range, but if I'm correct low is around 200 ish NG/DL (if i'm correct) and the highest could be around 1k, but I don't remember the ranges.

I think you mean total test…

[DustinTheHuss]

OK, that helps a lot.

Now im not a doctor, nor a specialist, but I do have about 18 years of ED history behind me, and now happily out the other end.

One thing I will tell is that 'true recovery', in my opinion, will never involve targeting specific macros, programs, or forcing oneself to center their attention on food... whether that is reading self-help 'intuitive eating' books or doing huge amounts of daily practices and drills to try and recondition your mind. After over a decade living a certain way, it takes a dramatic shift in lifestyle to truly make things go in the other direction. These things can be great tools in the beginning, but that's all they should be: a direction to go in.

I find that changing your activities and your environment to be the best ways to do this.... because Im guessing that, for a LONG time, you've been centering your values, lifestyle, etc around SOMETHING that is related to food or body image, such that - now - you don't really trust yourself NOT to constantly try to 'work on' making it better.

Is that accurate?

Well it's been about 50/50 as in the winter I don't seem to care about body image as much since we are wearing more clothes and that's when I sleep a lot and gain weight. It's the summer months when I tend to restrict and exercise a lot. So right now is a tough time as we are heading into spring and a heat wave next week.

I'm reading the main Intuitive Eating book by those 2 nutritionists. I tried Intuitive Eating in 1996, gained 6 lbs and panicked and got rid of it. But now I don't weigh myself.

My therapist has me doing exposure therapy where I look at photos of me out at events with friends and I focus on the experience itself instead of how I look compared to others, as she said that doesn't align with my values. I'm nervous as my friend who is super thin is coming to visit and we may have some photos together, but I have to remind myself that I'm excited to see HER and go to nice restaurants with her, not that I'm going to have to take a photo next to her and feel bad when I see it.

Recovery is HARD. It's a constant battle and I'm 50 years old.

[AdamWW]

Well it's been about 50/50 as in the winter I don't seem to care about body image as much since we are wearing more clothes and that's when I sleep a lot and gain weight. It's the summer months when I tend to restrict and exercise a lot. So right now is a tough time as we are heading into spring and a heat wave next week.

I'm reading the main Intuitive Eating book by those 2 nutritionists. I tried Intuitive Eating in 1996, gained 6 lbs and panicked and got rid of it. But now I don't weigh myself.

My therapist has me doing exposure therapy where I look at photos of me out at events with friends and I focus on the experience itself instead of how I look compared to others, as she said that doesn't align with my values. I'm nervous as my friend who is super thin is coming to visit and we may have some photos together, but I have to remind myself that I'm excited to see HER and go to nice restaurants with her, not that I'm going to have to take a photo next to her and feel bad when I see it.

Recovery is HARD. It's a constant battle and I'm 50 years old.

It certainly is hard... mine started when I was 17 and I'm almost 37 now... but I've considered myself 'recovered' for about 1.5 years I think... so it was kind of in 'active' mode for about 17-18 years.

I wish there was an easy way to just imprint the mental changes that got me more permanently (knock on wood) in a better mindset, but it's such a personal journey it simply wouldn't do the same thing. I've kind of learned that from experience myself.

TBH, the only thing that ended up making it 'stick' for me was just living in a body that wasn't as lean for a long period of time... not having weird bulks/cuts etc or binge/restrict... I just kind of gained weight, and sat with it for a long time... when I finally realized literally NOTHING got worse (except having buy new clothes), I just never saw a need to restrict again.. it was pointless.

[DustinTheHuss]

It certainly is hard... mine started when I was 17 and I'm almost 37 now... but I've considered myself 'recovered' for about 1.5 years I think... so it was kind of in 'active' mode for about 17-18 years.

I wish there was an easy way to just imprint the mental changes that got me more permanently (knock on wood) in a better mindset, but it's such a personal journey it simply wouldn't do the same thing. I've kind of learned that from experience myself.

TBH, the only thing that ended up making it 'stick' for me was just living in a body that wasn't as lean for a long period of time... not having weird bulks/cuts etc or binge/restrict... I just kind of gained weight, and sat with it for a long time... when I finally realized literally NOTHING got worse (except having buy new clothes), I just never saw a need to restrict again.. it was pointless.

Oh wow, 17-18 years. That's great that you've been recoverED for 1.5 years. What an inspiration! I know the feeling of buying new clothes.

Mine is really tough as I'm in the dating market so I will think that I will make a man more interested in me if I lose weight. The dating apps are tough as so many men, even men my age, will post that they exercise a lot and expect that the woman be the same and post that she should be fit. My therapist says that I don't need a man like that in my life--that I should find someone who loves me for me, not my size.

It's really hard to change that mindset when you read that, though. But I know having someone watch what I eat and bother me about working out a lot would not be the best person to have a relationship with. I'm better off being alone.

On spread.

[AdamWW]

Oh wow, 17-18 years. That's great that you've been recoverED for 1.5 years. What an inspiration! I know the feeling of buying new clothes.

Mine is really tough as I'm in the dating market so I will think that I will make a man more interested in me if I lose weight. The dating apps are tough as so many men, even men my age, will post that they exercise a lot and expect that the woman be the same and post that she should be fit. My therapist says that I don't need a man like that in my life--that I should find someone who loves me for me, not my size.

It's really hard to change that mindset when you read that, though. But I know having someone watch what I eat and bother me about working out a lot would not be the best person to have a relationship with. I'm better off being alone.

On spread.

Thank you! It's hard to see myself as inspirational, but if nothing else I would be honored to even improve the life of a single person struggling in the way I did for so long.

I lost (temporarily) friends, had relationships with girlfriends end, and greatly hindered my ability to function processional and - previously - academically because I was so engulfed in my disorder. It truly seeped into every facet of my being... there seemingly was not a second the thought of food or my body didn't wander through my head... UNLESS I was drunk at a party in college or something ;o)

Like you, I'm also in the dating market (as they call it), though I'm not really actively looking right now... TBH it seems next to impossible for me to figure out how to meet people in person anymore. Everything is so app-based now, I would feel totally creepy even walking up to someone and just saying, "Hey, I'm Adam.... blah blah blah would you like to go do blah blah blah sometime?"

The superficial nature of apps, as you said, only makes it worse... BUT... I also recognize that the body standards placed on women are far more exclusive than are typically placed on men. That's for sure.

That being said, I think the app-only approach really does make matters worse, because speaking as a straight male, I know that there is a greater % of superficial men on dating apps than would be the average in the population, and it's probably similar for women; in the general population, I think people have a much broader range of personal attributes they find appealing, but on an app ALL you see is a face and/or body, and usually a brief summary of them....

But I have to agree, you should focus on finding people who are genuine, and they tend to be in short supply. I mean I've been single now for like... almost 3 years... partially because it's just hard to find people who seem like caring, thoughtful humans.

[letsallmakeit]

I think you mean total test…

no, I had free test around 100-200 ish ng/dl once. Recent one game about 300 ish.

Therapist told me to not workout if it does decrease test by increasing cortisol and I'm afraid to eat more while not working out. Thoughts in not working out?

[letsallmakeit]

It certainly is hard... mine started when I was 17 and I'm almost 37 now... but I've considered myself 'recovered' for about 1.5 years I think... so it was kind of in 'active' mode for about 17-18 years.

I wish there was an easy way to just imprint the mental changes that got me more permanently (knock on wood) in a better mindset, but it's such a personal journey it simply wouldn't do the same thing. I've kind of learned that from experience myself.

TBH, the only thing that ended up making it 'stick' for me was just living in a body that wasn't as lean for a long period of time... not having weird bulks/cuts etc or binge/restrict... I just kind of gained weight, and sat with it for a long time... when I finally realized literally NOTHING got worse (except having buy new clothes), I just never saw a need to restrict again.. it was pointless.

How did you stop the feeling of having to workout in order to eat or the feeling of bloated or getting bigger around the belly?

[letsallmakeit]

I really struggle accepting my body with how much weight I could gain and how I could look if I don't exercise.
I would like to stop thinking of having to workout to eat more.
I would like to just accept my body without restricting.
There's just too many stuff that I need to do and my mind is like "if you don't workout you just gain fat.
Probably I need fat, but the mind says but everything goes to fat if you don't workout.
It's a struggle that I would like to be free and eat how much and w/e I want even if I stop weightlifting or just be a sitting down at home.

[DustinTheHuss]

Thank you! It's hard to see myself as inspirational, but if nothing else I would be honored to even improve the life of a single person struggling in the way I did for so long.

I lost (temporarily) friends, had relationships with girlfriends end, and greatly hindered my ability to function processional and - previously - academically because I was so engulfed in my disorder. It truly seeped into every facet of my being... there seemingly was not a second the thought of food or my body didn't wander through my head... UNLESS I was drunk at a party in college or something ;o)

Like you, I'm also in the dating market (as they call it), though I'm not really actively looking right now... TBH it seems next to impossible for me to figure out how to meet people in person anymore. Everything is so app-based now, I would feel totally creepy even walking up to someone and just saying, "Hey, I'm Adam.... blah blah blah would you like to go do blah blah blah sometime?"

The superficial nature of apps, as you said, only makes it worse... BUT... I also recognize that the body standards placed on women are far more exclusive than are typically placed on men. That's for sure.

That being said, I think the app-only approach really does make matters worse, because speaking as a straight male, I know that there is a greater % of superficial men on dating apps than would be the average in the population, and it's probably similar for women; in the general population, I think people have a much broader range of personal attributes they find appealing, but on an app ALL you see is a face and/or body, and usually a brief summary of them....

But I have to agree, you should focus on finding people who are genuine, and they tend to be in short supply. I mean I've been single now for like... almost 3 years... partially because it's just hard to find people who seem like caring, thoughtful humans.

Yeah the dating apps are tough as everything is based on appearance for 2 seconds before the person decides yes or no. I posted body pics so that I could filter out the guys who were superficial about body size.

I joined an adventure club to get away from that but most of them are 1/2 my age, but it's at least nice to get out and do some fun activities with other single people, even if it's just friendship and it helps with my depression. Otherwise I would just stay in my house and maybe workout for an hour and sleep on weekends. What's hard is that there are a lot of photos with these activities, so my therapist is working with me on exposure to these photos as apparently exposure therapy is helpful for people with body image issues. My brain keeps remembering how I looked at my smallest and compares, so she's trying to get away from that because I was dieting at those sizes. She wants me to be comfortable with my current size and remember the photos for the experience and the fun and not just how I look compared to people half my age.

[DustinTheHuss]

How did you stop the feeling of having to workout in order to eat or the feeling of bloated or getting bigger around the belly?

Well it comes down to your motivation for working out. It should be for health reasons. I mean eating food during the day is going to expand your stomach and that's natural and normal.

I really struggle accepting my body with how much weight I could gain and how I could look if I don't exercise.
I would like to stop thinking of having to workout to eat more.
I would like to just accept my body without restricting.
There's just too many stuff that I need to do and my mind is like "if you don't workout you just gain fat.
Probably I need fat, but the mind says but everything goes to fat if you don't workout.
It's a struggle that I would like to be free and eat how much and w/e I want even if I stop weightlifting or just be a sitting down at home.

That sounds like what they would call an Activity Disorder in terms of working out so much. You could do a lot of damage to your body with organ damage and/or injuries with what you describe. A professional can help you with reframing your thoughts so they aren't so focused around food, weight, diet and exercise. Many times they work on stopping exercise altogether and work with you on the feelings that come up when you stop exercising and how to cope and get through those feelings. Then you slowly work back to a healthy exercise plan.

They put me on exercise restriction and then I was only allowed to walk for certain periods of time when I was in the ED hospital. I really haven't overexercised since then as it just injures me.

[AdamWW]

no, I had free test around 100-200 ish ng/dl once. Recent one game about 300 ish.

Therapist told me to not workout if it does decrease test by increasing cortisol and I'm afraid to eat more while not working out. Thoughts in not working out?

Oh ok, that makes more sense then.

I cannot say whether working out specifically would decrease your test levels... frankly I don't think focusing on your test is really a necessary metric as it will improve as other aspects of your health improve in general. The motivation to reduce exercise to a reasonable amount should be for more wholistic reasons.

How did you stop the feeling of having to workout in order to eat or the feeling of bloated or getting bigger around the belly?

When I stopped looking to my appearance to provide me validation and happiness, I stopped carrying about treating my food intake and energy expenditure like a bank account...

I only really worried about balancing food and exercise to remain leaner when I didn't have other things to make me happy. Being skinny never made me happy anyway... it made me hate myself.

I really struggle accepting my body with how much weight I could gain and how I could look if I don't exercise.
I would like to stop thinking of having to workout to eat more.
I would like to just accept my body without restricting.
There's just too many stuff that I need to do and my mind is like "if you don't workout you just gain fat.
Probably I need fat, but the mind says but everything goes to fat if you don't workout.
It's a struggle that I would like to be free and eat how much and w/e I want even if I stop weightlifting or just be a sitting down at home.

I feel like you and I have been over this many many times already... I would suggest reading back through the many conversations we've had.

[AdamWW]

Yeah the dating apps are tough as everything is based on appearance for 2 seconds before the person decides yes or no. I posted body pics so that I could filter out the guys who were superficial about body size.

I joined an adventure club to get away from that but most of them are 1/2 my age, but it's at least nice to get out and do some fun activities with other single people, even if it's just friendship and it helps with my depression. Otherwise I would just stay in my house and maybe workout for an hour and sleep on weekends. What's hard is that there are a lot of photos with these activities, so my therapist is working with me on exposure to these photos as apparently exposure therapy is helpful for people with body image issues. My brain keeps remembering how I looked at my smallest and compares, so she's trying to get away from that because I was dieting at those sizes. She wants me to be comfortable with my current size and remember the photos for the experience and the fun and not just how I look compared to people half my age.

That adventure club sounds like a fun idea actually... but I can imagine many of the people would be younger as well, like mid-20's.

I'm almost 37 and honestly I don't think im looking to date anyone under 30 as the VERY youngest... I mean I know plenty of guys are totally ago dating people who are like 21 even if they're 60... that just isn't possible for me, as I need someone more mature and established in their values.

I hear you on the photos things... I've actually ALWAYS hated having my picture taken even at my leanest or my most 'fit'... I just never like how it turns out. I wish I knew how to care less about it, but it's almost like the whole hearing your own voice thing ya know? Always makes me cringe for some reason.

I also tend to gain a lot of water/fat in my face first so it's harder to hide, haha! But meh...

Funny enough, I sometimes think my recovery was partially the result of exhaustion.. I just became SOOOOO TIRED of the mental back and forth... I hit my wit's end and said 'f*ck' it.

[letsallmakeit]

Oh ok, that makes more sense then.

I cannot say whether working out specifically would decrease your test levels... frankly I don't think focusing on your test is really a necessary metric as it will improve as other aspects of your health improve in general. The motivation to reduce exercise to a reasonable amount should be for more wholistic reasons.



When I stopped looking to my appearance to provide me validation and happiness, I stopped carrying about treating my food intake and energy expenditure like a bank account...

I only really worried about balancing food and exercise to remain leaner when I didn't have other things to make me happy. Being skinny never made me happy anyway... it made me hate myself.



I feel like you and I have been over this many many times already... I would suggest reading back through the many conversations we've had.

for example, today I was feeling great before working out. I did a full body 40 ish minute workout and I feel like a train hit my head and feel more fatigued now. I wonder if this haves something to do with anything. I lift 2-3 days a week full body. So you're saying that lowering workout should be for something else and not test?

I see. one of my biggest problems and fears is not exercising and eating what I want. suppostly my therapist is trying to figure out if this is part of my ocd. I guess the way to beat it is to stop exercising and just eat what I want?

[AdamWW]

for example, today I was feeling great before working out. I did a full body 40 ish minute workout and I feel like a train hit my head and feel more fatigued now. I wonder if this haves something to do with anything. I lift 2-3 days a week full body. So you're saying that lowering workout should be for something else and not test?

I see. one of my biggest problems and fears is not exercising and eating what I want. suppostly my therapist is trying to figure out if this is part of my ocd. I guess the way to beat it is to stop exercising and just eat what I want?

I never said lowering workouts would or would not... it's just too hard to say. You can try and it and see if it improves.

In terms of exercising and eating... I mean we've had this discussion already many times dude. You need to be honest with yourself and just take the steps you know you have to... I can't tell you whether you're eating what you're want or if you're restricting, only you can know that.

[letsallmakeit]

I never said lowering workouts would or would not... it's just too hard to say. You can try and it and see if it improves.

In terms of exercising and eating... I mean we've had this discussion already many times dude. You need to be honest with yourself and just take the steps you know you have to... I can't tell you whether you're eating what you're want or if you're restricting, only you can know that.

yeah it's hard to do as well without much help outside of social medias. did you managed to work on yourself without therapist?

[AdamWW]

yeah it's hard to do as well without much help outside of social medias. did you managed to work on yourself without therapist?

Yeah, I did my ED recovery on my own... i saw a therapist in the past for other things though.

[letsallmakeit]

Yeah, I did my ED recovery on my own... i saw a therapist in the past for other things though.

I see, I'm slowly starting to realize that in order to do this I need to stop weightlifting.
I don't have much mental energy and overall energy to do stuff, so weightlifting might actually be impacting more. now maybe this is something psychologically, but why do I weightlift? I want to get stronger, look better and eat more without feeling guilty, and if it bring better health. then that as well, but instead of better health im seeing less health from it and actually impacting me. I do have mental fatigue.

the next step to stop lifting overall is a hard step.

[AdamWW]

I see, I'm slowly starting to realize that in order to do this I need to stop weightlifting.
I don't have much mental energy and overall energy to do stuff, so weightlifting might actually be impacting more. now maybe this is something psychologically, but why do I weightlift? I want to get stronger, look better and eat more without feeling guilty, and if it bring better health. then that as well, but instead of better health im seeing less health from it and actually impacting me. I do have mental fatigue.

the next step to stop lifting overall is a hard step.

I think the best way to handle any form of exercise is to do only as much as you can handle without making it a distraction to the rest of your life.

it seems like, for now, even dipping your toe in the pool is making you fear drowning... so yeah, might be best to take a step back.

You could even replace it with other things that don't get you obsessed, such as stretching, or a sport, or basic mobility stuff at home. Movement can actually feel great if it's done right, and doesn't have to have anything to do with trying to stay lean or burn calories.

Especially stuff like martial arts... it can be very rewarding.

[letsallmakeit]

I think the best way to handle any form of exercise is to do only as much as you can handle without making it a distraction to the rest of your life.

it seems like, for now, even dipping your toe in the pool is making you fear drowning... so yeah, might be best to take a step back.

You could even replace it with other things that don't get you obsessed, such as stretching, or a sport, or basic mobility stuff at home. Movement can actually feel great if it's done right, and doesn't have to have anything to do with trying to stay lean or burn calories.

Especially stuff like martial arts... it can be very rewarding.

I like fencing, I know you used to do golf or still do golf right? I was reading past pages in this thread and I saw a comment of you saying you do golf or use to do golf.

[AdamWW]

I like fencing, I know you used to do golf or still do golf right? I was reading past pages in this thread and I saw a comment of you saying you do golf or use to do golf.

Yup! I still golf when the weather is nice. It rains quite a bit where I live so mainly in spring and summer

[DustinTheHuss]

That adventure club sounds like a fun idea actually... but I can imagine many of the people would be younger as well, like mid-20's.

I'm almost 37 and honestly I don't think im looking to date anyone under 30 as the VERY youngest... I mean I know plenty of guys are totally ago dating people who are like 21 even if they're 60... that just isn't possible for me, as I need someone more mature and established in their values.

I hear you on the photos things... I've actually ALWAYS hated having my picture taken even at my leanest or my most 'fit'... I just never like how it turns out. I wish I knew how to care less about it, but it's almost like the whole hearing your own voice thing ya know? Always makes me cringe for some reason.

I also tend to gain a lot of water/fat in my face first so it's harder to hide, haha! But meh...

Funny enough, I sometimes think my recovery was partially the result of exhaustion.. I just became SOOOOO TIRED of the mental back and forth... I hit my wit's end and said 'f*ck' it.

Yeah most are younger in the adventure club so I feel proud that I can keep up with them at my age, although I've had some setbacks like falling while paddle boarding. Now as i'm getting back into more physical shape I'm doing better. But then again I can't get back into TOO much physical shape as it's easy to overexercise and my therapist has to remind me of my age.

Maturity is important. I've dated a lot of men in their 20s over the years as they are the most persistent and I've had to deal with a lot of BS like them randomly blocking and unblocking me, which affects my mental health and has resulted in binging and purging, so my therapist wants me to steer clear of the younger men. It's so hard to find someone my age, though. I haven't had more than 2 dates with a man my age in the past year and they both went nowhere. Meanwhile any guy under 30 is an instant match.

Yeah facial aesthetics change with weight gain. I just keep telling myself that I have to find a man my age who isn't so superficial, like one with a little extra weight on himself. But even they are delusional to want a younger, fit woman. Oh well. I'll just keep trying and they always say you find someone when you're not trying so hard.

People are really into fitness where I live so that doesn't help. Almost every man posts about how fit he is on his dating profile. I'm sure if I was in the midwest or the south where obesity rates are much higher then it would be easier.

[stevowrock]

hey! do you guys by any chance force yourself to eat when not hungry and hitting the gym? also if bulking?

[AdamWW]

hey! do you guys by any chance force yourself to eat when not hungry and hitting the gym? also if bulking?

Need way more context to answer this question... I don't have days where im literally never hungry..

Are you saying you have NO desire to eat for an entire am-pm time period? From waking till bed?

[stevowrock]

Need way more context to answer this question... I don't have days where im literally never hungry..

Are you saying you have NO desire to eat for an entire am-pm time period? From waking till bed?

yes. I can go from am to pm like from 10 am- 9 pm without hunger like right now im cooking dinner but im not even hungry. I do eat anyways, but thoughts on this? im also trying to bulk up a bit and feel healthier.

also this is my account that im using on mobile right now. my other account here is “letsallmakeit”

sorry for using two accounts. usually one is on pc if im correct, and the other one which is this one I recently have been using it on mobile if im correct

[AdamWW]

yes. I can go from am to pm like from 10 am- 9 pm without hunger like right now im cooking dinner but im not even hungry. I do eat anyways, but thoughts on this? im also trying to bulk up a bit and feel healthier.

also this is my account that im using on mobile right now. my other account here is “letsallmakeit”

sorry for using two accounts. usually one is on pc if im correct, and the other one which is this one I recently have been using it on mobile if im correct

Well if you’d otherwise not eat then of course you should make yourself eat… but I think U know that…

[Strawng]

Well if you’d otherwise not eat then of course you should make yourself eat… but I think I know that…

This. When you’ve restricted heavily or for a very long time, you have likely lost all sense of what hunger feels like entirely. I certainly did. That doesn’t mean I just didn’t eat.

[letsallmakeit]

Well if you’d otherwise not eat then of course you should make yourself eat… but I think U know that…

thanks for replying!

[letsallmakeit]

This. When you’ve restricted heavily or for a very long time, you have likely lost all sense of what hunger feels like entirely. I certainly did. That doesn’t mean I just didn’t eat.

thanks for replying!

[letsallmakeit]

Question, what are the reasons of feeling more mentally exhausted after weightlifting or doing training? I sometimes (like today) feel angry and stuff are bothering more than usual. why is this? I had around 8 hour sleep, but I did wake up 2 times to go to the bathroom at night.

[AdamWW]

Question, what are the reasons of feeling more mentally exhausted after weightlifting or doing training? I sometimes (like today) feel angry and stuff are bothering more than usual. why is this? I had around 8 hour sleep, but I did wake up 2 times to go to the bathroom at night.

Im afraid there's too many variables at play to explain this...

Life stress, hunger, cortisol, relationship issues.... anything can cause someone to feel mentally tired.