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  1. #2971
    Registered User Nightflier101BL's Avatar
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    Still going at it. I'm still having some minor setbacks and minor (day or two) relapses but I'm still trucking on at the moment. I had my weekly weigh in on Friday, what I saw scared the crap out of me - 10 lbs up in just a few days, which looking back now and judging how I feel at the moment, was just all water weight and bloating. My hands swelled up like balloons and I couldn't get my wedding ring off. This caused me to restrict the next two days, which I did bounce back from.

    Oddly enough, one of my biggest stressors right now is the wedding ring. I usually take it off in the evenings and for showers, then put it back on again in the morning. Feeling it get snug on my finger makes me feel incredibly claustrophobic for some reason and I freak out. I'm just going to leave it on 24/7 at this point and get used to it. The bloating will go up and down, I know.

    So, I'm back on it. I've been doing some reading with the below:

    Mayra Hornbacher - Wasted: A Memoir of Anorexia and Bulimia This is a fantastic, eye-opening book but it's pretty graphic and no non-sense
    Jenni Schaefer - Life Without Ed This was recommended by my dietician. On order and next up after the above

    I find that I get a LOT of comfort and reassurance from the books and this forum. I just need to stay away from the other areas of this forum. Also, reddit has some recovery subs but be careful as some of the AN ones are extremely triggering and filled with teenage girls that are completely happy staying in their disorders.

    On a side note, today is my birthday and I have a mid-day date with my wife at a nice local restaurant. Going to eat what I want, get some dessert and maybe try some wines. It's going to feel great.

    Last week, we had lunch at a local Tex-Mex place and I went completely nuts with tacos, chips and salsa, pile of rice and two small frozen margaritas. Then I came back and had several cookies. And you know what, nothing bad happened. I was full of energy and my mood was massively improved.

    PS - freaking Reese's peanut butter pumpkins in the freezer are the GOAT.
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  2. #2972
    Registered User letsallmakeit's Avatar
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    Do you guys bulk or cut during an eating disorder? do you guys force feed yourself even if not hungry?
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  3. #2973
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by letsallmakeit View Post
    Do you guys bulk or cut during an eating disorder? do you guys force feed yourself even if not hungry?
    I am having a hard time figuring out if the questions you ask are cries for help or they're genuine...

    Obviously cutting with an ED is just having an ED... so... i think the answer is obvious.

    Force feeding may be necessary if your hunger cues cause you to lose appetite.
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  4. #2974
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Nightflier101BL View Post
    Still going at it. I'm still having some minor setbacks and minor (day or two) relapses but I'm still trucking on at the moment. I had my weekly weigh in on Friday, what I saw scared the crap out of me - 10 lbs up in just a few days, which looking back now and judging how I feel at the moment, was just all water weight and bloating. My hands swelled up like balloons and I couldn't get my wedding ring off. This caused me to restrict the next two days, which I did bounce back from.

    Oddly enough, one of my biggest stressors right now is the wedding ring. I usually take it off in the evenings and for showers, then put it back on again in the morning. Feeling it get snug on my finger makes me feel incredibly claustrophobic for some reason and I freak out. I'm just going to leave it on 24/7 at this point and get used to it. The bloating will go up and down, I know.

    So, I'm back on it. I've been doing some reading with the below:

    Mayra Hornbacher - Wasted: A Memoir of Anorexia and Bulimia This is a fantastic, eye-opening book but it's pretty graphic and no non-sense
    Jenni Schaefer - Life Without Ed This was recommended by my dietician. On order and next up after the above

    I find that I get a LOT of comfort and reassurance from the books and this forum. I just need to stay away from the other areas of this forum. Also, reddit has some recovery subs but be careful as some of the AN ones are extremely triggering and filled with teenage girls that are completely happy staying in their disorders.

    On a side note, today is my birthday and I have a mid-day date with my wife at a nice local restaurant. Going to eat what I want, get some dessert and maybe try some wines. It's going to feel great.

    Last week, we had lunch at a local Tex-Mex place and I went completely nuts with tacos, chips and salsa, pile of rice and two small frozen margaritas. Then I came back and had several cookies. And you know what, nothing bad happened. I was full of energy and my mood was massively improved.

    PS - freaking Reese's peanut butter pumpkins in the freezer are the GOAT.
    It sounds like you're still doing obviously disordered actions which you know will trigger you... like weighing yourself.

    I would advise being more mindful of what you know will cause you problems and cutting that out of your life.
    Last edited by AdamWW; 09-08-2021 at 08:23 PM.
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  5. #2975
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    I am having a hard time figuring out if the questions you ask are cries for help or they're genuine...

    Obviously cutting with an ED is just having an ED... so... i think the answer is obvious.

    Force feeding may be necessary if your hunger cues cause you to lose appetite.
    just ocd acting. sorry, but thanks for replying!
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  6. #2976
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    I'm feeling like forcing myself to the gym to lift, one of the reasons is because I would like to stay active in some way. Anyone experience being forced to go to the gym, what did you do? I don't know what other sports to take. How can I regain enjoyment in lifting weights?
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  7. #2977
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by letsallmakeit View Post
    I'm feeling like forcing myself to the gym to lift, one of the reasons is because I would like to stay active in some way. Anyone experience being forced to go to the gym, what did you do? I don't know what other sports to take. How can I regain enjoyment in lifting weights?
    This has been discussed many times in this thread before, I suggest scrolling back if you want more details on it.

    You say things like:

    "I want to stay active in some way"

    "I'm feeling like forcing myself to go to the gym"

    "How can I regain my enjoyment of lifting?"



    My question to you is: why are you trying to FORCE yourself to like something? If you don't enjoy the gym, lifting, etc, then what is the reason?

    To contrast, just because I don't like painting, would it be a good idea to FORCE myself to paint? No... it wouldn't... and because of that, I wouldn't do it unless I felt compelled to.


    I suspect the real reason you want to do this is... of course... because you KNOW you're trying to earn food. You're trying to do what your ED wants you to do: exercise and burn energy, control your body, etc, etc.


    If you truly LIKED it, you wouldn't have to force it... it would be intuitive, natural, and make you happy.


    Do the things in life that enhance your well-being, not take from it.
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  8. #2978
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    hello everyone! So I have been trying to gain some strength and I feel the need to force feed myself to maintain muscle and strength. I was feeling bloated and messy and decided to check my weight. I gained like 5 pounds in 1 month. went from like around 163-168 at 6’1 in a month. i feel full and wanting to eat less today due to eating too much. I also dont like force feeding myself or eating when full but if i dont i might eat random hours or hour.
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  9. #2979
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by stevowrock View Post
    i might eat random hours or hour.
    whats wrong with that?
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  10. #2980
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    Hey its Alexa from Scotland , I hope everyone is doing well I am recovering from an eating disorder , over the last few weeks , my eating has gotten somewhat better than it has been before making sure I have 5 meals a day , starting to doing lifting today managed to get some weights , for at home but when I have the money ( after February ) I hoping to be going to a gym soon there is one just down the road from me , both I and my husband are vegans , making sure I work out in some way every day as I feel I have to keep myself very busy and I don't like sitting around not doing anything , I walk a lot .not so great at jogging or running lucky I live in an area with lots of parks, etc the weather has gotten colder but just put a coat on I'll be fine .
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    whats wrong with that?
    true. I guess theres nothing wrong. thanks man! I just thought scheduling things is the way to go.
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  12. #2982
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    Popping back in for another update.

    Still working on recovery. I've got a lot of folks in my corner at this point helping me along. I currently see an ED medical doctor, ED therapist, dietician and psychiatrist. Unfortunately, I'm adding a cardiologist on top of this. I had an ECHO, EKG, chest X-ray and tons of blood work done. Turns out that my heart shows signs that I had an Anterior MI (heart attack) at some undetermined point. Several weeks ago, I was experiencing extreme pain down the length of my left arm, into my fingers, pain in my neck and side of my face, shortness of breath, chest heaviness, clammy/cold sweat. I felt very "off" but didn't go to the ER or seek help, it just went away after about a week. I'm guessing this may have been it. I'll see what the cardiologist thinks about it on the 28th of this month. In the meantime, all support is telling me to lay off caffeine - I've been downing huge amounts of tea and coffee since I started recovery. I don't know why but I'm having massive cravings for coffee.

    As far as my eating plan, the goal is to hit around 2500 calories per day with three meals and three snacks spaced throughout the day. I'm having difficulty spacing these out as my hunger cues are still really wonky and all over the place. Sometimes I'll eat breakfast, then lunch an hour or two afterwards. Weight gain is aimed towards 2-4 lbs per week. I started recovery at 139 lbs, now at 149 lbs (6'2", 40 y/o male).

    Things are still tough but I'm making progress. I've completely stopped weighing or counting anything and basically just picking food that I think I'll enjoy. However, I'm still gravitating towards my old "safe" foods. Not for comfort or in attempt to restrict, I just really enjoy them and have gotten used to them. Plus, my stomach is still not cooperating and I know these foods are easiest on my digestion.

    I don't know if I completely agree with settings numbers for goals but I've got 4 professionals agreeing that this is the way to go. It seems to help me mentally, since I'm also dealing with a psychotic disorder and other things. I tried to do the full-bore, all or nothing approach and things didn't go well in many aspects.

    Some short-term, small wins so far - my mood seems to be improving, I'm not lethargic and my mental focus is getting clearer. I'm started to be a little bit more engaged at work and more willing to go out and do things.

    My wife has been absolutely wonderful with helping me and supporting me. She's been attending my doctor visits with me and making me food. She's also watching for me to slip and catches me when I start heading in that direction.

    Looking forward to my continued improved health and mental state. I can't stress enough that this all would be impossible if I didn't have the support structure in place that I do currently. It's costing me a damn fortune since most of these doctors are out-of-network or don't take insurance at all. But it's worth it and needed. Can't put a price tag on your health. Especially after this new heart attack scare. It's an eye-opener because now it's a reality that I could have been close to death.

    Thanks for listening.
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  13. #2983
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Nightflier101BL View Post
    Popping back in for another update.

    Still working on recovery. I've got a lot of folks in my corner at this point helping me along. I currently see an ED medical doctor, ED therapist, dietician and psychiatrist. Unfortunately, I'm adding a cardiologist on top of this. I had an ECHO, EKG, chest X-ray and tons of blood work done. Turns out that my heart shows signs that I had an Anterior MI (heart attack) at some undetermined point. Several weeks ago, I was experiencing extreme pain down the length of my left arm, into my fingers, pain in my neck and side of my face, shortness of breath, chest heaviness, clammy/cold sweat. I felt very "off" but didn't go to the ER or seek help, it just went away after about a week. I'm guessing this may have been it. I'll see what the cardiologist thinks about it on the 28th of this month. In the meantime, all support is telling me to lay off caffeine - I've been downing huge amounts of tea and coffee since I started recovery. I don't know why but I'm having massive cravings for coffee.

    As far as my eating plan, the goal is to hit around 2500 calories per day with three meals and three snacks spaced throughout the day. I'm having difficulty spacing these out as my hunger cues are still really wonky and all over the place. Sometimes I'll eat breakfast, then lunch an hour or two afterwards. Weight gain is aimed towards 2-4 lbs per week. I started recovery at 139 lbs, now at 149 lbs (6'2", 40 y/o male).

    Things are still tough but I'm making progress. I've completely stopped weighing or counting anything and basically just picking food that I think I'll enjoy. However, I'm still gravitating towards my old "safe" foods. Not for comfort or in attempt to restrict, I just really enjoy them and have gotten used to them. Plus, my stomach is still not cooperating and I know these foods are easiest on my digestion.

    I don't know if I completely agree with settings numbers for goals but I've got 4 professionals agreeing that this is the way to go. It seems to help me mentally, since I'm also dealing with a psychotic disorder and other things. I tried to do the full-bore, all or nothing approach and things didn't go well in many aspects.

    Some short-term, small wins so far - my mood seems to be improving, I'm not lethargic and my mental focus is getting clearer. I'm started to be a little bit more engaged at work and more willing to go out and do things.

    My wife has been absolutely wonderful with helping me and supporting me. She's been attending my doctor visits with me and making me food. She's also watching for me to slip and catches me when I start heading in that direction.

    Looking forward to my continued improved health and mental state. I can't stress enough that this all would be impossible if I didn't have the support structure in place that I do currently. It's costing me a damn fortune since most of these doctors are out-of-network or don't take insurance at all. But it's worth it and needed. Can't put a price tag on your health. Especially after this new heart attack scare. It's an eye-opener because now it's a reality that I could have been close to death.

    Thanks for listening.
    Im so sorry to hear of your heart concerns.

    ED's can weaken the heart musculature and make such things more common... in time, I hope your body repairs the damage and you avoid any complications in the future.

    That being said... 2500 calories? That is an extremely low number... you cannot expect to gain 2-4lbs per week on that... in fact im guessing you will LOSE weight if you eat 2500 calories.

    Im 6 foot and slightly heavier than you now, and I require 3200-3500 calories just to maintain my weight on most days.

    Who is giving you this calorie goal?


    As for coffee/tea, I suggest avoiding too much caffeine as it is often a crutch for calorie-free energy by people with ED's to quell hunger...
    "When I die, I hope it's early in the morning so I don't have to go to work that day for no reason"
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Im so sorry to hear of your heart concerns.

    ED's can weaken the heart musculature and make such things more common... in time, I hope your body repairs the damage and you avoid any complications in the future.

    That being said... 2500 calories? That is an extremely low number... you cannot expect to gain 2-4lbs per week on that... in fact im guessing you will LOSE weight if you eat 2500 calories.

    Im 6 foot and slightly heavier than you now, and I require 3200-3500 calories just to maintain my weight on most days.

    Who is giving you this calorie goal?


    As for coffee/tea, I suggest avoiding too much caffeine as it is often a crutch for calorie-free energy by people with ED's to quell hunger...
    I agree with everything Adam’s saying here. I can also guarantee that 2500 is not enough.
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    So have you guys been watching the Facebook whistle blower thing? Do you guys believe social media was a large factor of developing an eating disorder?
    Wincel crew
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    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by snailsrus View Post
    So have you guys been watching the Facebook whistle blower thing? Do you guys believe social media was a large factor of developing an eating disorder?
    Not for me... mine started when I was 17-18 before I really gave a crap about Social Media.

    That being said, Social Media isn't a 'cause' per se... but it possibly could be a 'trigger' or a means to slip into one.

    I 100% believe EDs are genetic. However, you can live with anorexic genetics without ever developing the disorder... so long as you never sustain an energy deficit long enough for your personal coping mechanisms to kick in.

    For me, I began losing weight because I wanted to 'reinvent myself' prior to college, after being a chubby kid for many years.

    Due to my ED genetics, though, I was never able to snap out of the OCD, restrictive control cycle that comes with weight loss in an anorexic, and the rest is history... I became addicted to the pattern of weight loss and control, and it consumed my life.


    So, social media might lead to behaviors that will unleashed an otherwise dormant ED... but it's not quite the same as completely giving people the ED itself... you need the genetic component as well.
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    The calorie goal is coming from my dietician. This is just a preliminary number which will gradually keep increasing. It's not a hard-set number and I'm certainly not counting it out. The primary goal at this point is to get me on a regular eating schedule with meals that reasonably portioned in a way that is sustainable and resembles what a "normal" everyday healthy person would eat.

    She's got me journaling my meals and providing her with photos - she is estimating the calories and checking portion sizing and whatnot.

    I really don't know at this point what is a good calorie intake - I'm trying to avoid thinking about it, to be honest. Just eating "normally" the best I can. I'm certainly not gain weight rapidly but is going on an upward trend.

    When I was restricting and tracking, I had estimated my maintenance calories somewhere around 2000 calories per day given my sedentary lifestyle, complete lack of muscle, etc.

    I agree with you both, this number needs to rise and it will. This is so tough trying to deal with all this mentally and getting so much conflicting information from various sources (no offense to anyone

    One source which caused me some confusion and frustration was Tabitha Farrar. Don't get me wrong, I love her books and still keep going back to them, but she's got that F-IT, all or nothing approach, balls to the wall. I tried this initially but couldn't handle it mentally. I couldn't bring myself to eat cheeseburgers and milkshakes everyday, even though I'd love to do that.

    Basically, I'm trying to form new, healthy habits. I did occasionally have binge problems and her approach had my mind feeling like that again.

    I don't know guys.....

    This is why I'm here. I'm open to any and all suggestions and willing to try other things.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Not for me... mine started when I was 17-18 before I really gave a crap about Social Media.

    That being said, Social Media isn't a 'cause' per se... but it possibly could be a 'trigger' or a means to slip into one.

    I 100% believe EDs are genetic. However, you can live with anorexic genetics without ever developing the disorder... so long as you never sustain an energy deficit long enough for your personal coping mechanisms to kick in.

    For me, I began losing weight because I wanted to 'reinvent myself' prior to college, after being a chubby kid for many years.

    Due to my ED genetics, though, I was never able to snap out of the OCD, restrictive control cycle that comes with weight loss in an anorexic, and the rest is history... I became addicted to the pattern of weight loss and control, and it consumed my life.


    So, social media might lead to behaviors that will unleashed an otherwise dormant ED... but it's not quite the same as completely giving people the ED itself... you need the genetic component as well.
    Same here. Mine started after I experienced rapid weight loss after a couple of surgeries and I wanted to maintain that and take the opportunity to keep the trend going. No outside media or situations outside of this caused me to go anoretic. At first, it was just weight loss, no measuring or weighing, etc. But this very quickly got out of hand when I started using it as a control mechanism. I liked the feeling of self-deprivation and mortification, those feelings just got stronger and stronger until my body started to fall apart. Then (as bad as this is), started using AN as a way to see just how sick I could get. I even contemplated using it as a suicide mechanism at some points as I also suffer from a mental disorder with these thoughts.

    It may be genetics, I agree. My mental disorder definitely has a family history involved. In my case, both my conditions just played off each other and now I have to attack both at the same time.
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    Originally Posted by Nightflier101BL View Post
    The calorie goal is coming from my dietician. This is just a preliminary number which will gradually keep increasing. It's not a hard-set number and I'm certainly not counting it out. The primary goal at this point is to get me on a regular eating schedule with meals that reasonably portioned in a way that is sustainable and resembles what a "normal" everyday healthy person would eat.

    She's got me journaling my meals and providing her with photos - she is estimating the calories and checking portion sizing and whatnot.

    I really don't know at this point what is a good calorie intake - I'm trying to avoid thinking about it, to be honest. Just eating "normally" the best I can. I'm certainly not gain weight rapidly but is going on an upward trend.

    When I was restricting and tracking, I had estimated my maintenance calories somewhere around 2000 calories per day given my sedentary lifestyle, complete lack of muscle, etc.

    I agree with you both, this number needs to rise and it will. This is so tough trying to deal with all this mentally and getting so much conflicting information from various sources (no offense to anyone

    One source which caused me some confusion and frustration was Tabitha Farrar. Don't get me wrong, I love her books and still keep going back to them, but she's got that F-IT, all or nothing approach, balls to the wall. I tried this initially but couldn't handle it mentally. I couldn't bring myself to eat cheeseburgers and milkshakes everyday, even though I'd love to do that.

    Basically, I'm trying to form new, healthy habits. I did occasionally have binge problems and her approach had my mind feeling like that again.

    I don't know guys.....

    This is why I'm here. I'm open to any and all suggestions and willing to try other things.
    So as you know, i've dealt with Tabitha personally, and while I understand the less calculated approach can seem daunting, it truly is the end goal.... and it does work.

    However, there is a lot of re-wiring that has to happen alongside the eating part which is paramount to full recovery.

    If you recall from her book, she even mentions how she set calorie goals per herself... and I did similar things.

    The concept is an extremely high minimum number... one that you know 100% will get you in a surplus.

    I know this might sound harsh, but please be honest and tell me: do you REALLY not know what 'enough is'? I know you do.

    If I asked you to exceed 4000 calories today... do you really think you'd have a hard time doing that? I mean you can read the back of a Ben and Jerry's container and see it's 1000+ calories... you can see that a bag of granola is 1000+ calories... You can see that one tub of peanut butter is over 1000 calories... You know that a slice of pizza is about 250 calories - 350 calories... and so on.


    Often times, in recovery, we make excuses that we can't hit numbers... I don't believe that is true, at all.

    If someone told you you would die tomorrow if you didn't eat 4000+ calories today... would you struggle? I doubt it... I think you could do it easily without thinking. You might not hit EXACTLY 4000, but that's he point...

    Give yourself a VERY high minimum, and then make sure to at least hit that, so there's NO excuse to go below... ever.

    Find foods that you don't even need to track, that are high in calories, and eat those.



    A cup of trail mix is about 600 calories, 4 cups of kids cereal is about 600 calories, Full Fat Greek Yogurt is like 200 calories per cup....

    It's super, super easy to do that.


    And if you're ever in doubt... blend up 3 bananas, 4 spoons of PB, some whole fat yogurt, 5 Dates, cinnamon, and some Almond milk or whatever you wanna use... that single shake is like 1300 calories, and you can drink it in under 2 minutes.

    I know you're not being dishonest with yourself on purpose, it's just habits... it's happens with ED recovery... but I do urge you to make some of these basic steps happen given you did experience the heart scare and it could be putting you in danger.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Not for me... mine started when I was 17-18 before I really gave a crap about Social Media.

    That being said, Social Media isn't a 'cause' per se... but it possibly could be a 'trigger' or a means to slip into one.

    I 100% believe EDs are genetic. However, you can live with anorexic genetics without ever developing the disorder... so long as you never sustain an energy deficit long enough for your personal coping mechanisms to kick in.

    For me, I began losing weight because I wanted to 'reinvent myself' prior to college, after being a chubby kid for many years.

    Due to my ED genetics, though, I was never able to snap out of the OCD, restrictive control cycle that comes with weight loss in an anorexic, and the rest is history... I became addicted to the pattern of weight loss and control, and it consumed my life.


    So, social media might lead to behaviors that will unleashed an otherwise dormant ED... but it's not quite the same as completely giving people the ED itself... you need the genetic component as well.
    That actually makes a lot of sense.


    Like as an alcoholic, I don’t blame promotional content in movies/tv/social media that promote alcoholic drinking or glorify it. I don’t think not seeing it before I was an a full blown alcoholic would have prevented it. I do think the media can normalize the addiction making it more acceptable and easier to stay in denial or experiment with it. But, also I think genetics is a big part and how you were raised in developing coping mechanisms.
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    Originally Posted by snailsrus View Post
    That actually makes a lot of sense.


    Like as an alcoholic, I don’t blame promotional content in movies/tv/social media that promote alcoholic drinking or glorify it. I don’t think not seeing it before I was an a full blown alcoholic would have prevented it. I do think the media can normalize the addiction making it more acceptable and easier to stay in denial or experiment with it. But, also I think genetics is a big part and how you were raised in developing coping mechanisms.
    Yup I would agree... the media does not help, that is for sure
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    Hey Adam,

    Oh, I certainly have a good idea how many calories are in things and I could hit very high numbers without any effort. But I guess I have an issue with thinking that that is a realistic, life-long way to eat. My dietician certainly doesn't think so.

    Like this....the way I feel right now and what I would REALLY love to do is eat an entire jar of crunchy peanut butter everyday. I could have done that even way before my AN even started. This tends to make me think this would lead to a new form of ED at some point, unless, according to Farrar, this switch and mental hunger would subside over time as I rewire my brain to not fear these types of things.

    I guess with Farrar's approach, I'm scared that the process wouldn't end and lead me down a bad road. On the other hand, the dietician method approaches it with a reasonable, calculated method. But I don't think I'm hitting on the "re-wire" aspect with the dietician.

    I think I've just resorted to tackling this with the least amount of thought and mental pain as possible. Reduce the uncertainty, stress, frustration, worries. I tend to run from anything that causes me even a slight amount of mental frustration.

    I want to develop eating habits that are reasonably healthy, regardless of the calories and my weight ends up where it ends up. Just not eating entire boxes of donuts or crushing an entire pizza. I know that type of eating is for re-wiring, but is there really no other way?
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    I guess another thing I should be considering is the heart scare. The professionals are trying to keep this in mind as well as my other conditions with this current eating plan.

    But now, I'm really considering how to really approach this re-wire aspect which is critical to recovery, I know.

    Hopefully, I can get some help from the therapist with this. Maybe I do need to go with Tabitha's approach or something close to it.

    What a mess I've gotten myself into...
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    Originally Posted by Nightflier101BL View Post
    Hey Adam,

    Oh, I certainly have a good idea how many calories are in things and I could hit very high numbers without any effort. But I guess I have an issue with thinking that that is a realistic, life-long way to eat. My dietician certainly doesn't think so.

    Like this....the way I feel right now and what I would REALLY love to do is eat an entire jar of crunchy peanut butter everyday. I could have done that even way before my AN even started. This tends to make me think this would lead to a new form of ED at some point, unless, according to Farrar, this switch and mental hunger would subside over time as I rewire my brain to not fear these types of things.

    I guess with Farrar's approach, I'm scared that the process wouldn't end and lead me down a bad road. On the other hand, the dietician method approaches it with a reasonable, calculated method. But I don't think I'm hitting on the "re-wire" aspect with the dietician.

    I think I've just resorted to tackling this with the least amount of thought and mental pain as possible. Reduce the uncertainty, stress, frustration, worries. I tend to run from anything that causes me even a slight amount of mental frustration.

    I want to develop eating habits that are reasonably healthy, regardless of the calories and my weight ends up where it ends up. Just not eating entire boxes of donuts or crushing an entire pizza. I know that type of eating is for re-wiring, but is there really no other way?
    This is very important thing to remember: The way you eat while recovering is NOT how you'll eat long term. Not at ALL.

    Recovery eating a specific, reparative phase where more energy is consumed to compensate for the massive calorie debt you accumulated over time, causing the down-regulation of many bodily functions, including the support of heart tissue, your immune system, your endocrine system, and so on.

    In my recovery, there were days I ate 9-10k calories and felt totally 'normal' in terms of fullness because I craved SO much food. I could never do that now without feeling sick.

    So this idea of "I should eat in a way I can sustain", that's true from a MENTAL point of view (you SHOULD be eating to satiety, to cravings, etc), but that is a moving target: the calorie number which will give you satiety in recovery is NOT the number you'll require after you're out the other end.

    Secondly, people with the genetics for anorexia have a specific sub-type of eating disorders... you don't go from being anorexic to having BED... it doesn't work like that at all. They're not the same thing... nor does it lead people to become chronic OVER eaters and become obese in the long term; again, two totally different genetic predispositions.

    You're also still using words like "reasonably healthy" in describing your goal diet, but this ignores the fact that 'healthy' foods can also be calorie dense. I'm not saying eat a bowl of Crisco and twinkies, but consuming 3500-4000 calories of things like granola, yogurt, avocado, cheese, sandwiches... those things are packed with micronutrients and ALSO high in calories...

    So you don't NEED to only eat donuts... my point is that if you just deny your cravings because you want to form future habits, you're ignoring the hear and now, which is not a good idea. Responding to hunger and cravings is critical.


    Originally Posted by Nightflier101BL View Post
    I guess another thing I should be considering is the heart scare. The professionals are trying to keep this in mind as well as my other conditions with this current eating plan.

    But now, I'm really considering how to really approach this re-wire aspect which is critical to recovery, I know.

    Hopefully, I can get some help from the therapist with this. Maybe I do need to go with Tabitha's approach or something close to it.

    What a mess I've gotten myself into...

    Don't think about it as a mess... think about it like "today I am better than yesterday"... because you are. Things will only get better from here if you let them.

    Again, don't confuse the approach im suggesting or Tabitha's as saying "EAT THE MOST PROCESSED, CALORIE DENSE THINGS YOU CAN AND SHUT UP!"

    That's not the goal either... the goal is to respond to hunger and food/flavor specific cravings by eating things that satisfy both the craving it's itself and the hunger sensations... period. That's it.

    And so long as the calories consumed at the end of the day while doing so lead to steady weight gain, that's all there is to it.
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    True...true. You're absolutely right. I understand what you're saying. And I apologize for talking extremes, I'm smart enough to know I can eat sensibly AND high calorie with dense nutritional foods. Honestly, I think I'm still terrified internally. I got some comfort and "safety" in the prescribed meal plan, to be honest. And this is still a form of me restricting and I'm not going to beat this unless I let myself break free completely.

    Thanks for your input. I got another spark of inspiration from this. Off to eat a bowl of granola
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    Originally Posted by Nightflier101BL View Post
    True...true. You're absolutely right. I understand what you're saying. And I apologize for talking extremes, I'm smart enough to know I can eat sensibly AND high calorie with dense nutritional foods. Honestly, I think I'm still terrified internally. I got some comfort and "safety" in the prescribed meal plan, to be honest. And this is still a form of me restricting and I'm not going to beat this unless I let myself break free completely.

    Thanks for your input. I got another spark of inspiration from this. Off to eat a bowl of granola
    Always happy to help any way I can man.

    Don't feel down about having trouble succumbing to the ED thoughts, etc... it happens to all of us. Recovery is rarely linear, and it can take a lot of time.
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    Originally Posted by snailsrus View Post
    So have you guys been watching the Facebook whistle blower thing? Do you guys believe social media was a large factor of developing an eating disorder?
    Fuk no. I didn't even use social media. I developed anorexia because my mom was anorexic even when I was in the womb, my dad has severe body/eating issues, I was "trained" to endure physical and emotional suffering by my parents since I was a baby, and I was numbing emotional pain while feeding suicidal impulses from my PTSD. Anorexia isn't just a "diet gone too far". For a human being to willingly choose to starve themselves to death, there has to be an immense amount of pain and mental illness/trauma that was bound to express itself in some way. You need the genes for it, a caloric deficit, and some extreme life stressors or (likely repressed) emotional agony. There's a reason anorexia's the most fatal mental illness. I believe the level of self-hatred and emotional avoidance required to willingly starve yourself to death is not going to simply happen from social media. For many, the initial restriction isn't even about losing weight to be "lean" or looking good. For me, I just stopped eating because I didn't feel hungry due to my emotional pain. As I lost more weight, I physically couldn't eat because my digestive system became more disturbed. I thought I had a parasite or cancer before I realized it was anorexia. Ironically enough, I didn't even care about "leanness" really until I started gaining. I was then suddenly terrified of putting on any fat because restriction warps the mind. All that to say, no one's developing an ED due to social media.

    That being said, I don't think it's a good thing. Social media may make someone diet, and if they have both severe latent mental health problems and the genes for anorexia, then it could be said to help trigger it. It's also harmful for people in recovery and it makes it harder to notice when someone has a real problem because it normalizes problematic ways of eating. That being said, after hearing all the stories from the hospital and elsewhere, I can safely say "it's not about the food" or even necessarily about the diet. It's the genes, plus the diet needed to activate the genes, plus the demons or life stressors that make someone willing to continually starve themselves.
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Not for me... mine started when I was 17-18 before I really gave a crap about Social Media.

    That being said, Social Media isn't a 'cause' per se... but it possibly could be a 'trigger' or a means to slip into one.

    I 100% believe EDs are genetic. However, you can live with anorexic genetics without ever developing the disorder... so long as you never sustain an energy deficit long enough for your personal coping mechanisms to kick in.

    For me, I began losing weight because I wanted to 'reinvent myself' prior to college, after being a chubby kid for many years.

    Due to my ED genetics, though, I was never able to snap out of the OCD, restrictive control cycle that comes with weight loss in an anorexic, and the rest is history... I became addicted to the pattern of weight loss and control, and it consumed my life.


    So, social media might lead to behaviors that will unleashed an otherwise dormant ED... but it's not quite the same as completely giving people the ED itself... you need the genetic component as well.
    I agree , my mother has anorexia and 5 member of my family have all have eating disorders and me
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    Registered User Strawng's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Amber2021 View Post
    I agree , my mother has anorexia and 5 member of my family have all have eating disorders and me
    ED's are roughly 50% genetic. If you grew up with parents who had EDs, your environment is totally set against you and your odds of not getting one are quite minimal. Me and my sister both have eating disorders. I'm anorexic and she's bulimic. Our mom is anorexic, though she never admitted it (she has many other demons), and my dad has body dysmorphic disorder and bulimic behaviors.
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    Originally Posted by Strawng View Post
    ED's are roughly 50% genetic. If you grew up with parents who had EDs, your environment is totally set against you and your odds of not getting one are quite minimal. Me and my sister both have eating disorders. I'm anorexic and she's bulimic. Our mom is anorexic, though she never admitted it (she has many other demons), and my dad has body dysmorphic disorder and bulimic behaviors.
    I find this interesting. I've read that ED's are mostly genetic in various books and articles. I'm anoretic but there's nobody on my side of the family that has the same condition or ever had it. However, they are all overweight to varying degrees.
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