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  1. #1
    Registered User Qowiiyya's Avatar
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    Lightbulb What am I doing wrong! mysterious changes! fix my routine please

    Hello,
    Thanks for taking the time to read this
    I have been noticing some inconsistency in my results and I am wanting some help to help me reach my goals.
    First some background:
    In Oct 15 I did a waterfast for health reasons and went from 51.5kg to 40kg - BMI 14 7%BF - which was scary... On Nov 1 I started to slowly get my body back up to normal by doing a somewhat aggressive workout and re-feeding regime (at the time of my recovery it was prob too much - and I struggled to make any real gains, only making it 49 by end of dec, but good definition and around 15%). I fell ill and my partner advised I quit workouts and just "GET FAT" as he called it - to help my body recover. It frightened the daylights out of me to gain (eating whatever) and not train but I did and got to a soft 55kg by mid jan. I have started again with the workouts since 16 jan and seeing some ok results.

    My goals are to be around 52kg with a BF% in the teens, by march. The callipers say I am somewhere between 19-17% now, but my weight it up like crazy, and I am loosing my definition, quads, glutes, lower abs - but upper body is ok. The other day I was 53.7kg (ok)... 3 days later I am now +++55point Godonlyknows.... I am small frame with heavy bones. 5'6''. 30yrs

    I work out every second day.
    My routein is generally the same. I am a nube so my lifts aren't huge but I do them consistently. and I work on lifting heavier.

    I do 30 mins of weights, including chest, bi curls, bench dips, weighted Glute bridges, shoulders, and I do some lightly weighted body squats (12kg) and hand weighted lunges.
    I do 45 mins callisthenics/bodyweight workout, including squat variations, leg raisers, donkey/dog hydrant, sit-ups/crunches/bicicles/pushups and plant each side 2mins (I simply get bored to go longer)
    I used to do crazy high reps of everything (into the hundreds... but keep everything 30-60 as I don't burn muscle and I stick to it more.

    I used to do a walk250m, sprint400m, jog1km (cross county in creek beds, up hills, over logs) every other day, but now I want to shred a bit more so I have swapped it out for a jog at 8.4km/hour pace at between 4.2km and 8.4km.... so 30min to an hour usually after my weights and workout. Its just made my definition really floppy... I was on the way to good glutes now they are smaller, and seem softer. Im hating it so much

    I calculated my macros at 1696 cals, and I have cut to 1484 and now even to BMR 1320, but still I feel like I'm not cutting well. I don't focus too much on the actual macros, but I just try to make sure I hit my protein targets and let everything else fit into my calorie budget. I sometimes am a little under on my protein and a bit over on my fat - I am used to that since I was ketogenic for a few years.

    My diet is 100% clean. I eat all organic, mostly plants, plant proteins, organic meat a 2-3 time a week, good quantity of eggs, fish, only grains I eat is rice 2-3 time a week and every now and then when I feel naughty I have sprouted bread...(once a week) always within my macros, usually.

    WHY am i gaining? why am loosing definition? Why is the cardio no doing a darn thing? I calculated that every second day I am working out and using around 800-1300 calories in my exercise... why is it not showing! Im lost for ideas! please help fine tune this for me
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  2. #2
    Registered User spradish's Avatar
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    You are at a low weight with a goal to be underweight. Your post shows red flags for an eating disorder. Are you or have you been under treatment for an ED?
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  3. #3
    Da fuk is this. Echo814's Avatar
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    This seems an awful lot like a poster not too long ago who did a "medical" water fast and got grossly under weight. The diet, workouts ECT seem very familiar to the previous poster. This same person tried arguing that their mind set and goals were healthy too.
    If this were easy, everyone would walk around ripped.

    I like eating, it helps with the not dying.

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  4. #4
    Registered User spradish's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Echo814 View Post
    This seems an awful lot like a poster not too long ago who did a "medical" water fast and got grossly under weight. The diet, workouts ECT seem very familiar to the previous poster. This same person tried arguing that their mind set and goals were healthy too.
    I'm glad you picked up on that too. As I was reading this I felt like I had read it before.
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  5. #5
    Registered User Partyrocking's Avatar
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    You're doing everything wrong: diet, training, mentality, literally everything.
    You can't help the hopeless.

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  6. #6
    Registered User Qowiiyya's Avatar
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    Thank you all for your responses. I appreciate the feedback.

    Let me just clarify. I water fasted to autolyse ovarian cysts I have had for some time (not to be skeletal - eww... I have always been happy with my physique) Fasting is supposed to search and destroy those things and metabolise any bodily debris. It did shrink my cysts somewhat. It wasn't an ED. It was carefully planned, executed, and ceased. Rest assured I love food and put it away nicely

    During my fasting recovery I became sick (infection) and my partner !lovingly! suggesting that my low weight might be suppressing my immune so he told me it would be best to just leisurely graze and get some bodyfat back to help my immune cope. (Medical logic!) He told me just to rest and no workouts. It was a concerned loving thing as he didn't want my immune to suffer in case I was stressing my body. So I gained to 55kg 21% bf. He prefers me at that body compo- he thinks its the bees knees, I think it's too floppy, soft.... I prefer lighter and cut, it's just feels better and I have more getup and go. Diff strokes.

    This was difficult because, although I don't have ED, my brain hadn't yet caught up from being 40kg, so I felt like a sumo, even though I knew I was fine...but it was and still is a bit of a headtrip... I do completely know that 40kg-51kg is not a good look. 51.5-52.5 is very lean, but this was my normal weight for years, and I do carry it well. Bmi is so general and we are all so different. I would like to be fit and strong, lean, good booty, but not thin looking. Personally 51 I look to ribby and awkwardly gangily, but 52.5 sits well.. We don't all fit into the stats.

    For me I want to be my regular weight, but just have greater muscle composition.

    I know I'm not a pro athlete, but Joanna jedrzejcczk fits physique similar to myself (if I squint lol) and more what I'd like as my goal. She is my height, and 52kg. Not ed looking just lean and fit.

    Plz see her pic and stats on google to get my drift...(can't link!!)


    She is exactly my height very similar frame, and my upper body is somewhat similar to hers, slightly smaller. Obviously her abs are much much superior... The thing is my glutes and quads were on the way... But after I started jogging, they have flopped/sagged and softened.

    Sprinting (and shorter distance) was doing wonders but it was hard on the joints (explosive running cross country over uneven surface was a bit for my ankles/knees, esp after gaining weight)

    My main enquiry is;
    Isn't cardio supposed to help one shred/rip/cut... If so then why am I getting smaller glutes and less definition yet weighing more?

    I reeeeeaally appreciate the feedback and am after a scientific approach to my prob xx
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  7. #7
    Registered User Qowiiyya's Avatar
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    Great to hear. At least I have point to start from. What should I correct first? Thanks for replying
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    Registered User Qowiiyya's Avatar
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    Oh really? Do u have a link? Maybe some info there? I am genuinely seeking genuine advice. Why would I bother waisting time. And if I've got it so terribly wrong, where can I obtain the correct advice needed to amend this situation.

    I am very much comfortable with my body. Just wanting to improve it.

    Honestly if you have/had a family and you knew surgery was likely to make your situation worse, you'd do anything to rid yourself of an illness so u could make sure your healthy and well for your loved ones. Whatever doesn't kill me only makes me stronger. I'm just wanting to be healthy and improve my body compo after my fast.

    Was just after advice and support...
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  9. #9
    Do I even lift?!? megdaig's Avatar
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    What medical professional would starve an already underweight patient?

    Anywho. 114# is the very low end of a healthy weight for your height and wouldn't be a good "cutting" target. It sounds like you need to spend a good amount of time building muscle such that you can cut down to a much healthier weight of between 125 and 135#.

    And your bones aren't heavy, unless they're somehow more dense than an average person's.
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  10. #10
    Focus on yourself kimm4's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Qowiiyya View Post
    My diet is 100% clean. I eat all organic, mostly plants, plant proteins, organic meat a 2-3 time a week, good quantity of eggs, fish, only grains I eat is rice 2-3 time a week and every now and then when I feel naughty I have sprouted bread...(once a week) always within my macros, usually.
    Sprouted bread once a week...is this real life?! You don't fit the definition of a food lover. You fit the definition of rigid eater with serious food issues...

    You won't see any definition because you've never spent anytime building an actual muscle foundation to begin with.

    You can't cut when there's nothing to cut.
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  11. #11
    Focus on yourself kimm4's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by megdaig View Post
    What medical professional would starve an already underweight patient?
    None. There's so many red flags in the OP's post it's ridiculous...
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  12. #12
    Registered User Qowiiyya's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reply.
    I agree, at 114, I am like very borderline too thin, so like 115.7 to 116 is really my goal.

    I don't think I have more dense bones... But despite my smallish frame, my parts are just on the larger side- eg large wrists, hands, good solid head lol.

    I did in my grazing get near 125 and that's when I started training again. At first it was so good. My glutes and quads were really shaping up fast... There was some nice definition. But my ankles started hurting from sprinting, so I thought maybe I had gained a bit too much for my frame (at one time) so I thought why not cut back to 115.7to 116, and then just maintain. So I cut my cals and did longer distance jogs to increase cardio. Then I turned to slosh.

    My "bulk" was from 25 dec to jan 31.... I only started to "cut", trim cals and add more cardio on feb 1st but the results are sad. Lol
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    Registered User Qowiiyya's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kimm4 View Post
    None. There's so many red flags in the OP's post it's ridiculous...
    Wow imagine I actually DID have some sort of sad ED situation. Wouldn't be gettin much support and understanding from here... Just criticism that I'm "ridiculous". All good.

    Very grateful for your and everyone's input, and I really am a healthy happy eater. I do watch my calories according to what is calculated for my body, so that I can monitor my progress but I eat very well, and a wide variety of things. I'm hardly rigid, I'll eat anything I can smear butter on, as well as everything else that seems appealing and nutritious, I just watch my carbs as much as I can. Wow I never felt so misunderstood. Lol. X
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    Registered User Qowiiyya's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by megdaig View Post
    What medical professional would starve an already underweight patient?

    Anywho. 114# is the very low end of a healthy weight for your height and wouldn't be a good "cutting" target. It sounds like you need to spend a good amount of time building muscle such that you can cut down to a much healthier weight of between 125 and 135#.

    And your bones aren't heavy, unless they're somehow more dense than an average person's.

    Thanks, I do appreciate your advice. So what weight would I bulk to? I felt quite bulky at just under 125, and running felt quite jarring on the joints at that weight. So I wanted to cut from there to 116. Mini-cycles. I'm accept that it won't be as perfect and a long bulk, but I'm aiming at cutting 1-2 pounds a week slow and steady.

    My arms are still increasing it's the lower half that stopped and went softer. I think it has something to do with sprinting vs long distant jogging.

    I'd appreciate any info. I really do take it on board. Thanks
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    Focus on yourself kimm4's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Qowiiyya View Post
    Wow imagine I actually DID have some sort of sad ED situation. Wouldn't be gettin much support and understanding from here... Just criticism that I'm "ridiculous". All good.

    Very grateful for your and everyone's input, and I really am a healthy happy eater. I do watch my calories according to what is calculated for my body, so that I can monitor my progress but I eat very well, and a wide variety of things. I'm hardly rigid, I'll eat anything I can smear butter on, as well as everything else that seems appealing and nutritious, I just watch my carbs as much as I can. Wow I never felt so misunderstood. Lol. X
    The member's here aren't qualified in working with ED's so you would be advised to get professional help.

    Calling yourself "naughty" for having sprouted bread once a week...come on gimmie a break...

    You're running a program that's more cardio based so carbs are an important fuel needed in your diet...watching your carbs is not the answer.

    You're not being misunderstood. We see threads like this all the time. You're so focused on cutting and your entire thought process is backwards. Cutting calories and doing more cardio is pissing away what little muscle you have left. You need to go the distance with a solid building cycle. There's no such thing as bulking for month...think in terms of months to a year. You need a calorie surplus and consistency with a heavy lifting program.
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    Registered User Qowiiyya's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by kimm4 View Post
    The member's here aren't qualified in working with ED's so you would be advised to get professional help.

    Calling yourself "naughty" for having sprouted bread once a week...come on gimmie a break...

    You're running a program that's more cardio based so carbs are an important fuel needed in your diet...watching your carbs is not the answer.

    You're not being misunderstood. We see threads like this all the time. You're so focused on cutting and your entire thought process is backwards. Cutting calories and doing more cardio is pissing away what little muscle you have left. You need to go the distance with a solid building cycle. There's no such thing as bulking for month...think in terms of months to a year. You need a calorie surplus and consistency with a heavy lifting program.
    thank you for taking the time to reply. I do sincerely appreciate it. Like I said, my lifts are not really that heavy, I am just working my way up. compared to what you ladies probably lift you would most likely laugh at my lifts. Still, it is building something, so its doing something I guess.
    If you ladies aren't qualified in ED then why are you guys pretty much diagnosing me and damning me to having food issues when I don't? I appreciate that you must see ED manifestations, but it may be that its not the case in this scenario - and isn't at all.

    Yes, I do give myself Healthy treats - such as sprouted bread - I tell myself that it is a healthy treat but not an everyday food. My digestion wouldn't be so hospitable to such foods every day. Most people out there need alcohol and processed foods white flours and white sugars as their indulgent treats - I completely shun those things. Call me a simple girl, because sprouted bread is pretty indulgent to me lol... I do have adequate carbs, I just don't like to eat too much healthy sweetener or grains as there are numerous studies that show it is linked to a number of diseases such as diabetes and Alzheimer's disease. My carbs come from fresh fruit, beans, lentils, rice, root vegetables, starchy vegetables in balanced proportions and not in excess. Grains aren't the healthiest of foods, they have highly agglutinating properties which do cause some issues to everyones system.

    Again, I know you said you aren't qualified with ED (which is fine seeing as I am a regularly happy, healthy eater, and not needing a diagnosis), but you mentioned that my whole thought process is "backwards"... So which part is the backwards part? I do sincerely want to get my workouts right so that I can see results.
    Notice that I am wanting larger glutes - not really a quality of ED. I am wanting to STOP muscle loss and build... I know you guys are into comps and stuff - I think that a great thing but... Im just a simple girl after a bit of muscle and butt, not to complete.

    My main question was why would my increase in cardio make me increase in weight? from 53 - 54.5kg? Obviously if I had ED its pretty ineffective lol, seeing as Im gaining and not loosing.

    Im not trying to have conjecture with you. I do appreciate and value your expertise. But I don't have an ED. If you saw me eat and my enjoyment of food, cooking, and working out and getting bigger, your would understand.
    I hated being so thin. It was awful. I am doing everything I can to be further away from that every day. I just want to work towards a weight that feels light comfortable and that I have loads of energy. Seems that lighter or heavier for me I get diminishing returns on energy levels. 52-53 is quite ok. sure I'm not going to be as bulky as I would like, but its a compromise.
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    https://www.eatingdisorder.org/eatin...rexia-nervosa/

    http://www.aafp.org/afp/2015/0101/p46.html

    I'm sorry but you tick off a lot of these boxes, that is why we see red flags in all of your posts. Since we are not professionals in eating disorders we refrain from giving advice since it can be more harmful than helpful to people suffering from these disorders.

    I'm also wondering the quality of a medical professional that would cause a patient to lose so much weight and not recommend a registered dietician to help them get healthy again. That truely blows my mind.
    Last edited by Echo814; 02-16-2017 at 08:23 AM.
    If this were easy, everyone would walk around ripped.

    I like eating, it helps with the not dying.

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    OP, if you truly had a large frame (heavy bones, in your terms), you would look BETTER at a HEAVIER weight than the next person. All of your excuses are absolute bull. You are not a special snowflake, you are a person in need of professional help. You are judging your body through a distorted lens, treating it like garbage, and then are surprised that you aren't getting exactly what you want out of it.

    If there is one thing years on this forum have taught me, it's that there are two groups of people with eating disorders. Someone posts something that screams of an ED. The first group says yes, I do have a history of them and am dealing with it. The second says oh good heavens, no! Everything I do has a reason for it and a perfectly rational explanation! How could you even suggest such a thing!

    Welcome to group two, OP. If it's support you want, nobody here is going to support the abuse you are subjecting your body to while you bury your head in the sand and try to justify your decisions with explanations that make no sense. Again... get professional help. The path you are headed down will not get better on it's own, and will give you no happiness.
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    I would also add this link to the ones that Echo listed above, for a condition that is less well known:
    https://www.nationaleatingdisorders....orexia-nervosa

    A friend of a friend suffered from orthorexia and died quite young. Her insistence on only eating a small number of "clean" foods left her in exceedingly poor health over the long term. She would provide a laundry list of reasons why other foods were not an option for her. She got a disease (not linked to her eating) that was 100% treatable, but was in such a weakened state from her eating habits that doctors were not able to give her the treatment she needed, and she died. It was a completely unnecessary death, and quite sad.
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    It is NOT normal behaviour around food. Case in point: Even the "health conscious" women here who eat healthy and train daily think you sound disordered. We're not a bunch of fat girls at the bar scarfing burgers and giggling. We're fit and healthy too. And you sound very, very sick in the head. Sorry.

    ED does not mean that you starve down to 75lbs or barf up every meal. You have an obvious fear of food and at 30, you're going to start to see your body slide downhill pretty quick here. You know those little old ladies with humps and brittle bones? That'll be you. It's not a fun way to live.
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    Ladies, perhaps we approach this as though this woman who does not have an eating disorder.

    OP, I had a diagnosed eating disorder for many years. My heart does hurt to hear your desire to achieve the results you want and the possibility of your condition developing into an eating disorder.
    Additionally, as a food scientist, your desire to exclude entire food groups and eat "100% clean" is laughable because there is no real research (done by companies other than those who want you to buy organic!) that has claimed organic food is any better for you than non-organic.

    In any case, you came to get help, and I think what you want to hear is how to get the body you want. And I can understand that. What the other posters here are not convinced of is whether you're committed to do what it takes to get that body.

    First of all, I did research Joanna Jedrzejcczk, who you referenced, and she looks to be fairly healthy. When you see her weight, though, remember that MMA fighters will often practically starve themselves or inundate their bodies with food to reach a certain weight class. So although she may be 115lbs on weigh-in, I doubt this is her usual weight. Also understand that, although you like Joanna Jedrzejcczk's physique, you and her are not the same. So get the thought out of your head now that because she weight 52kg and is your height, you can weigh 52kg and look the same. No two people are the same.

    The reason you're seeing muscle loss is because you're doing light weightlifting, heavy cardio, and light eating. As a side note, despite your feelings on food, any diet under 1000 calories per day is considered that of a disordered eater.

    Now I'm with you on the weights, girl. I don't lift near as heavy as 98% of people on these forums (although I'm working up to it). But if you're not sweating and not getting sore during your exercises, and if you aren't feeling some soreness the following day(s), you're wasting your time lifting weights at all.

    The bottom line, as I understand it, is that you want to gain muscle but not fat. Don't we all! But it doesn't work that way. To gain muscle, you need to be eating in a surplus and lifting heavy weights with less focus on cardio. This is what is called a "bulk". And a good one takes anywhere from six months to a year. And this is where we lose most people on this forum, because they just refuse to do that. The idea during a bulk is to put on muscle so that when you cut, you will have muscle to reveal. At this point, you have basically just completed a cut and have no muscle to reveal. Maintaining your current weight and doing heavy cardio with light weights and eating in very much of a calorie deficit, you may see some very slight changes over the course of time, but nothing like you would if you would commit to a healthy bulk.
    In short, the people here need to understand that, if you indeed don't have an eating disorder (or even if you do), you're prepared to do a bulk and start the long process to getting to the body that you want.
    As you are now is likely what is referred to as "skinny fat". You're thin but with little muscle definition to show for it. If you maintain this or lose more weight, you will be in the same boat. You simply will not be able to get abs and a butt (as you requested) with your current diet and exercise plan.
    Most on here would recommend Strong Curves as a beginner program. I also like the programs that bodybuilding.com offers, as they've been created my professional athletes and include meal plans (and as a former ED, the meal plan is what I've always struggled with most).
    ED or not, you can learn a lot on these forums but you do have to understand that what you're currently doing will get you nowhere near where you want to be and you will likely need to put on a good 15-20 lbs to get where you want to be. You basically need to toss what you have out the window and start anew.

    I encourage you to research/Google women who do cardio vs women who lift weights. I think what you will find is that the women who lift weights weigh considerably more than those who do cardio and are much closer to the physique you are looking for. I think if you can get on here and explain that you're ready to properly bulk (for 6-12 months), you'll find a lot of support. But to try to achieve a specific look of another person (let's go ahead and deem this impossible) or a specific weight, you just scream ED to everyone, and the really knowledgeable people here just won't look much beyond that.

    As for your cardio, if you're a runner and you love that, I get it. But understand that, despite your weight, running is very hard on your joints. If you want to continue running, you specifically will need to strengthen the muscles around your ankles and knees. But putting on 15-20lbs for you and therefore well within a healthy weight for your height will not negatively affect your running. The idea that it does is in your head only.
    Last edited by lchoward; 02-16-2017 at 10:26 AM.
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    Originally Posted by Qowiiyya View Post
    I agree, at 114, I am like very borderline too thin, so like 115.7 to 116 is really my goal.
    A whole 2 lbs isn't going to make any difference in your look at a height of 5'6". If you were carrying enough overall muscle you would be ripped at the weight you're at now. Your being soft and lack of definition is a clear indicator you're undermuscled. You're at 55 kgs now trying to reach a goal of 52-53 kgs. That's where your thought process is backwards. You'll never be able to build and ass or any other bodypart when you're constantly cutting...you can't build something out of nothing.

    When you deprive the body for so long (which you've been doing,) it starts to fight back. That's what's happening to you right now. You're battling trying to get to a low weight that your body is not naturally meant to be at.

    Everything you're doing is unhealthy and it's written all though out your posts.
    Last edited by kimm4; 02-16-2017 at 02:11 PM.
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    Originally Posted by Echo814 View Post


    I'm sorry but you tick off a lot of these boxes, that is why we see red flags in all of your posts. Since we are not professionals in eating disorders we refrain from giving advice since it can be more harmful than helpful to people suffering from these disorders.

    I'm also wondering the quality of a medical professional that would cause a patient to lose so much weight and not recommend a registered dietician to help them get healthy again. That truely blows my mind.
    Echo, thank you for taking the time in posting those links, It was very thoughtful and I can see that is is coming from a place of genuine care and concern.
    I did a bach psych (Bscience) so I am familiar with DSMV5.

    Here is where things might be confuses. I have never in my life counted calories. - except when I was trying to PUT ON weight after my recovery. Yes 40kg is a disgustingly low weight and I do not wish that for anyone of my stature. It purely was a health reason, directed by Naturopathy - not allopathic medicine. I still do endorse it, but I certainly took it to the very brink. Its not a long term thing, but in some circumstances it can help. There is lots of literature about this.

    So after my fast I counted cals for the first time in my life. Prior to that I have been around 52kg for years, without trying, just happened that way. I was mainly keto diet and consumed enormous amounts of fat and protein. I am not afraid of fat, in fact i devour it, and crave it and it kept me in shape.

    After recovery I wanted to build some muscle - it was a very strong desire.. ALL LITERATURE on I have read says its about monitoring your macros and counting them - Im sure most people half serious about this do that. I calculated them according to a link on here by Emma Stone (I believe her screen name is) - its in stickies. I didn't miscalculate I used the figures that formula recommends. I at at maintenance for a good month (1696), then cut 20% (14something) (as it has been recommended like pretty much generically). I had reached a good 56 maybe at the time i thought a cut was due. I cut and I was loosing and keeping my definition ok. Then suddenly I flopped only on my lower body... upper body stayed tight. So I thought maybe I just go to BMR for a bit, increase the cardio, see if it helps.... low and behold I gained lol...

    I don't cut out carbs, Im just selective with my grains, partly due to digestion, and partly due to research that our bodies do better on less glutenous... but I still bake sourdough bread (and eat most of the loaf with inch thick butter) every so often. I just try to keep it as not an every day thing. I eat carbs. and seriously I am very disturbed by any pro anna, ED stuff.

    I actually was of the opinion that 56 is a good place to start with my first cut, seeing as I was new, and didn't know what to expect, and wanting to get to high 52, 53 was fine, seeing as its in normal BMI range, and other athletes of same height had this.

    I seriously would like to get this right...
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    Originally Posted by itsagoodday View Post
    OP, if you truly had a large frame (heavy bones, in your terms), you would look BETTER at a HEAVIER weight than the next person. All of your excuses are absolute bull. You are not a special snowflake, you are a person in need of professional help. You are judging your body through a distorted lens, treating it like garbage, and then are surprised that you aren't getting exactly what you want out of it.

    If there is one thing years on this forum have taught me, it's that there are two groups of people with eating disorders. Someone posts something that screams of an ED. The first group says yes, I do have a history of them and am dealing with it. The second says oh good heavens, no! Everything I do has a reason for it and a perfectly rational explanation! How could you even suggest such a thing!

    Welcome to group two, OP. If it's support you want, nobody here is going to support the abuse you are subjecting your body to while you bury your head in the sand and try to justify your decisions with explanations that make no sense. Again... get professional help. The path you are headed down will not get better on it's own, and will give you no happiness.

    Hey Itsagoodday !!
    LOL AM SO A SPECIAL SNOW FLAKE!!! hahah, no but seriously, I do have a small frame (tiny waist, narrow ribs, not very broad shoulders) but then I have a large skull lol, large femurs, big carpal, fibular, tubular, and patella.

    I do the very best I can to nutritionalist it according to what I know is best - when I learn better I treat it better, but I was just going by what I have read is best. If you have better info contrary to what I am doing I would be so humbly grateful to hear it, and would love to take it on board. I do base all that I do on research, I'm not completely mental lol.
    I don't think Im fat, nor would I be a 65kg, but I feel like I do lack a bit of bang at that weight. I have more energy between 52.6, say and up t0 57kg. My partner LUVS me 57kg and upwards and when I told him about the hard time I get here he just giggled and said I am a funny girl and he would love a big bulk to whatever size... I hope to do that soon. I was just trying out a smaller cycle for my very first go. I am a nube. (a nube snowflake in fact
    Im not discrediting the largness...Its more a personal pref for the energy levels. I really do appreciate your kind concern and the fact that you commented is very kind.

    I would absolutely hate to abuse my body, thats why I am careful not to load it up with too many things that it might not take too well. For me I am sensitive to processed foods, certain white processed grains. I used to not be - until I started to eat clean then I really started to notice how it effected my body. The cellular mitochondria actually fire better depending on what fuel you give them, which effects what exhaust they give off - which can effect one's performance.

    Please share whatever info you think would point me in the right direction.
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    Athletes normally have a team of professionals that monitor their health and are at a completely different level than your average gym goer. The MMA fighter you mentioned actually doesn't like fighting at 115lbs and is pushing for a Flyweight division of 125lbs because getting that low makes her weaker. Her weight outside of actual fights is in the high 120s to low 130s. Her fighting weight is not something she maintains year round.

    Its very common for people not to count calories and still be under weight. Usually it's not realizing how little they really eat and being very active. From everything that I have read on medical research sites like pub med ect, staying at a low weight can have just as many health issues as being obese. It may come in different forms but it still happens.

    You went from a very extreme fast that probably put your hormones completely out of wack to hitting an extreme refeeding and exercise regime which probably made it worse. I would suggest getting a check up and complete blood panel, at the very least, to make sure You are ok.
    If this were easy, everyone would walk around ripped.

    I like eating, it helps with the not dying.

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    Originally Posted by itsagoodday View Post
    I would also add this link to the ones that Echo listed above, for a condition that is less well known:


    A friend of a friend suffered from orthorexia and died quite young. Her insistence on only eating a small number of "clean" foods left her in exceedingly poor health over the long term. She would provide a laundry list of reasons why other foods were not an option for her. She got a disease (not linked to her eating) that was 100% treatable, but was in such a weakened state from her eating habits that doctors were not able to give her the treatment she needed, and she died. It was a completely unnecessary death, and quite sad.

    Itsagoodday - Im sad to hear of the premature death of your friend. Thats very tragic news. Thank God I am not that hardcore with my health that it would ironically cause my death...no food group is eliminated from my tummy completely just eaten in moderation.... for e.g., I LOVE chickpeas, but girl, but my tummy don't. They are healthy and packed with protein. In my culture they are a staple - so I just can't eat them too much, and not consecutive days, otherwise it hurts me lol. I don't think that makes me superior (as the Diagnostic Manual5 suggests) - on the contrary! those that have the stomach enzymes to take them frequently are more superior to me in that aspect. and believe me I'm not THAT rigid... I will eat chickpeas/ or too much grains even though I know I react, and they pay the price with a sore tummy lol. So I just gotta be a wee bit choosy to avoid a very painful bloating situation that makes me feel like I ate cement and my organs are going to burst open lol.(sorry to be graphic... and its not imagined - I pass for 7 moths preg when I eat things I react to)
    I am so happy you posted that link - It was very insightful. I think that light should be shed on this topic.

    For myself its about trying to be as intuitive with what my body needs. For e.g., I like potatoes, but I actually do much better on sweet potatoes so though I eat both, I would defy prefer and eat more of the latter. I am all good! Im not disordered.
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    Originally Posted by sonti View Post
    It is NOT normal behaviour around food. Case in point: Even the "health conscious" women here who eat healthy and train daily think you sound disordered. We're not a bunch of fat girls at the bar scarfing burgers and giggling. We're fit and healthy too. And you sound very, very sick in the head. Sorry.

    ED does not mean that you starve down to 75lbs or barf up every meal. You have an obvious fear of food and at 30, you're going to start to see your body slide downhill pretty quick here. You know those little old ladies with humps and brittle bones? That'll be you. It's not a fun way to live.

    Sonti, Thank you for your feedback.
    I don't think the ladies here are fat and eat too much I think they are gorgeous. And I truly believe you are (all) fit and healthy too or striving to be that way - otherwise - why would you be here, right?

    I sound sick in the head? wow, thanks for your input. I do really love food I don't fear it, and may God save me from being a poor hunchy. Im actually just trying to figure it out so I can get it right. I am really honestly going through the check lists on the link that people are sending, and I can say with sincerity that Im not fitting the bill.

    Taken from the othorexia site: Lets see. I am being honest

    Do you wish that occasionally you could just eat and not worry about food quality? - I do eat and not worry... hey if it fits my macros its all good. and I have only just started that business... I usually put more food away then my dear 75kg hub who works very hard... I have only started back counting macros since jan 16... before that I was jamming in the calories

    Do you ever wish you could spend less time on food and more time living and loving? Um, no. I wish I had more time, as I'm busy and fitting workouts, academia, my animals, my family, religion in is hard... but thats everywomen's prob i guess

    Does it seem beyond your ability to eat a meal prepared with love by someone else – one single meal – and not try to control what is served? NOPE I gobble it down!

    Are you constantly looking for ways foods are unhealthy for you? On the contrary - I look for ways they ARE healthy...

    Do love, joy, play and creativity take a back seat to following the perfect diet? Im confused what this question is asking?

    Do you feel guilt or self-loathing when you stray from your diet? Er, not really, but I don't like not sticking to my word.

    Do you feel in control when you stick to the “correct” diet? - I feel like I am being sincere with my intentions - so ya.

    Have you put yourself on a nutritional pedestal and wonder how others can possibly eat the foods they eat? - NO! I wish my tummy was as hospitable as other peoples. Although I don't see the point in eating right/exercising, then ruining it with junk food or alcohol or drugs. I think if your going to be healthy make it a life long habit. but hey? sometimes you need those types of things, and you can have treats here and there, but just don't make it a habit to eat nutritionally bankrupt foods. I think thats a normal healthy aspect. For e.g., if I'm on the road I will grab a the biggest fattest kebab I can find or eat sushi no guilt, and not even question it... even KFC.... But I would avoid just having it for no reason, if I wasn't traveling, when I can eat perfectly healthy food, or buy fruit/veg/nuts/ on the road... but those who do other things... each to their own and diff strokes for diff folks.

    All the same I take your comment about my sick head (lol) as a caring thing and I am appreciative of your concern.

    What do you think I should change?
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  28. #28
    pirate ninja kitteh rockangel's Avatar
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    Here is the issue, your posts exhibit the following symptoms taken from http://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/ which gives information on all eating disorders and does not ask you how you "feel" and "think". These are warning signs that tell us when we are out of our scope of practice. It is not a diagnosis, but an indication that we are facing a client with an issue bigger and more severe than what we are qualified to deal with.

    Dramatic weight loss. (water fasting to underweight status)

    Preoccupation with weight, food, calories, fat grams, and dieting. (resistance to go beyond a small weight goal)

    Refusal to eat certain foods, progressing to restrictions against whole categories of food (e.g. no carbohydrates, etc.). (your words are organic, mostly plants, plant proteins, organic meat a 2-3 time a week, good quantity of eggs, fish, only grains I eat is rice 2-3 time a week and every now and then when I feel naughty I have sprouted bread...(once a week) always within my macros, usually.)


    Frequent comments about feeling “fat” or overweight despite weight loss. (you are low in weight, low in bmi, fighting your body, refusing to gain, comments on "softness" etc)

    Anxiety about gaining weight or being “fat.” (consistent comments about keeping low weight and refusal to gain)

    Denial of hunger. (refusal to gain weight, fighting body, refusal to eat larger amounts etc)


    Consistent excuses to avoid mealtimes or situations involving food. (your very long winded replies to each person are full of excuses and "reasons" why you must avoid foods and avoid eating in a "normal" manner)

    Excessive, rigid exercise regimen--despite weather, fatigue, illness, or injury, the need to “burn off” calories taken in. (evident in your posts)


    In general, behaviors and attitudes indicating that weight loss, dieting, and control of food are becoming primary concerns.
    Pretty much every time you reply, you show evidence of issues that are concerning. This is why you are getting the feedback you are.

    Either your thinking patterns are so messed up that you are not able to see what you are writing, or you need to slow down and really think about what you are typing because you are not explaining yourself in a way which puts us at ease and you set off nearly every warning sign of an eating disorder.

    Until you are able and willing to gain weight above what your "ideal" is, spend time working with a heavy lifting program, and willing to change your attitudes toward food and eating, you are not likely to get more info as most of us have experience with training people who set off these warning signs.
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  29. #29
    Registered User Qowiiyya's Avatar
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    Qowiiyya is offline
    Originally Posted by lchoward View Post
    Ladies, perhaps we approach this as though this woman who does not have an eating disorder.

    OP, I had a diagnosed eating disorder for many years. My heart does hurt to hear your desire to achieve the results you want and the possibility of your condition developing into an eating disorder.
    Additionally, as a food scientist, your desire to exclude entire food groups and eat "100% clean" is laughable because there is no real research (done by companies other than those who want you to buy organic!) that has claimed organic food is any better for you than non-organic.

    In any case, you came to get help, and I think what you want to hear is how to get the body you want. And I can understand that. What the other posters here are not convinced of is whether you're committed to do what it takes to get that body.

    First of all, I did research Joanna Jedrzejcczk, who you referenced, and she looks to be fairly healthy. When you see her weight, though, remember that MMA fighters will often practically starve themselves or inundate their bodies with food to reach a certain weight class. So although she may be 115lbs on weigh-in, I doubt this is her usual weight. Also understand that, although you like Joanna Jedrzejcczk's physique, you and her are not the same. So get the thought out of your head now that because she weight 52kg and is your height, you can weigh 52kg and look the same. No two people are the same.

    The reason you're seeing muscle loss is because you're doing light weightlifting, heavy cardio, and light eating. As a side note, despite your feelings on food, any diet under 1000 calories per day is considered that of a disordered eater.

    Now I'm with you on the weights, girl. I don't lift near as heavy as 98% of people on these forums (although I'm working up to it). But if you're not sweating and not getting sore during your exercises, and if you aren't feeling some soreness the following day(s), you're wasting your time lifting weights at all.

    The bottom line, as I understand it, is that you want to gain muscle but not fat. Don't we all! But it doesn't work that way. To gain muscle, you need to be eating in a surplus and lifting heavy weights with less focus on cardio. This is what is called a "bulk". And a good one takes anywhere from six months to a year. And this is where we lose most people on this forum, because they just refuse to do that. The idea during a bulk is to put on muscle so that when you cut, you will have muscle to reveal. At this point, you have basically just completed a cut and have no muscle to reveal. Maintaining your current weight and doing heavy cardio with light weights and eating in very much of a calorie deficit, you may see some very slight changes over the course of time, but nothing like you would if you would commit to a healthy bulk.
    In short, the people here need to understand that, if you indeed don't have an eating disorder (or even if you do), you're prepared to do a bulk and start the long process to getting to the body that you want.
    As you are now is likely what is referred to as "skinny fat". You're thin but with little muscle definition to show for it. If you maintain this or lose more weight, you will be in the same boat. You simply will not be able to get abs and a butt (as you requested) with your current diet and exercise plan.
    Most on here would recommend Strong Curves as a beginner program. I also like the programs that bodybuilding.com offers, as they've been created my professional athletes and include meal plans (and as a former ED, the meal plan is what I've always struggled with most).
    ED or not, you can learn a lot on these forums but you do have to understand that what you're currently doing will get you nowhere near where you want to be and you will likely need to put on a good 15-20 lbs to get where you want to be. You basically need to toss what you have out the window and start anew.

    I encourage you to research/Google women who do cardio vs women who lift weights. I think what you will find is that the women who lift weights weigh considerably more than those who do cardio and are much closer to the physique you are looking for. I think if you can get on here and explain that you're ready to properly bulk (for 6-12 months), you'll find a lot of support. But to try to achieve a specific look of another person (let's go ahead and deem this impossible) or a specific weight, you just scream ED to everyone, and the really knowledgeable people here just won't look much beyond that.

    As for your cardio, if you're a runner and you love that, I get it. But understand that, despite your weight, running is very hard on your joints. If you want to continue running, you specifically will need to strengthen the muscles around your ankles and knees. But putting on 15-20lbs for you and therefore well within a healthy weight for your height will not negatively affect your running. The idea that it does is in your head only.

    Ichoward, I really really like your post and I do very much appreciate you taking to time to write such a carefully well thought out post that is wise and non-judgemental. Its very commendable for you to write about your own experience with ED, and I hope that you have had a a full recovery and lead a beautiful life now.

    Firstly, I mainly cut out processed foods. And that is not a food group. By organic I mean from nature and yes I usually try to buy certified, unless its something like a pineapple which even conventional farming doesn't use harmful pesticides and chemicals. There are many other examples... I guess in aus eating organic means diff to you ladies in USA.

    I am completely committed to following whatever steps are necessary to achieve results... count how many times I have asked for the correct methods - but I seem to be getting lots of criticism despite my requests for PRACTICAL advice. Everyone wants to claim they aren't qualified to give ED advice, yet everyone is somehow qualified to diagnose. hmm.

    I look very similar to Jojo the MMA fighter, just a little less cut. So If she look to be ok, how is it that I'm such a criminal to want to achieve similar results. I do realise Im not her and have no intention to of competing so if I'm like not exactly on the mark its obviously not an issues. Im not delusional. Im just trying to say - yes I am similar stature to this public figure, and hope to get similar results. She has said that the hardest part of her job is the cutting., She used to eat whatever and then cut... it actually caused her health problems and she broke her wrist I believe due in incorrect cutting. She now eats clean and her cuts ever since have been very easy and she has seen an improvement. I have myself started to eat clean 7 years ago, slowly fazing into healthy foods and fazing out processed "foods".

    Ichoward, I think I should just go back to sprints and more weight-focused. I don't eat below 1000 cals lol. I eat 1696 as maintenance and 14something as a cut - which I will cease and just go with maintenance for a bit to see how I go... WHERE ON EARTH is everyone getting that I eat 1000cals? - apart from my fast in oct. which was months ago and I would never train in that state... catabolic suicide dear GOD!

    I do get a great sweat during the weights, and Im currently trying to go up a bit in weights, but I'm not quite there, yet. Hopefully soon. To really hurt I have to do high reps right now (40++).. otherwise there is not pain, which I'm not thrilled with.. My goal is to lift way less reps but much heavier weights, R e a l l y s l o w l y... But I am totally 10000% with you on those points and I really appreciate you pointing it out to me so nicely, not in a judgemental condescending way. In AU, I was told about this forum that people here aren't very nice and welcoming and can be a tad nasty ... I was like surely not... Im sure they are wrong and that ppl here ARE nice. And you have just proved them wrong and me right lol <3

    I did about a month ago get some callipers and I have increased my BF which was great as I needed it. I am currently 17-19% I guess and I am totally ok with that... Im probably more even given the accuracy of these things. I honestly thought that at just under 125lbs I was ready for my first cut as I was just experimenting with the whole process... never knew when I asked advice I was going to be seen as someone with ED... because I was trying to follow all the advice I had researched and learned. I do have some good upper body definition and I like it, I had a bigger booty, but the longer distance cardio must have eaten it up.. Just can't figure out the weight gain... lol maybe I had a good meal on myself haha. (someones gotta laugh coz everyone is so serious here.. sheesh!!)

    Yes I did decide in Nov that a lifters physique is what I wanted and I wanted to trade in my running shoes except for short jogs a few time a week... but then I wanted to cut and I though that cardio was all apart of the cutting game ! psych I was maybe not there.

    Was speaking to my hub about the flack I have been coping here, and I was saying I did want to do a big bulk seriously, and he loves that idea, but I probably have to hold off for a few months to get seriously into it as march april I got some other commitments coming up hence me wanting to cut feb/march. all good. I have my long term goals and looks like in the near future I will be possibly getting into the 60kg zone and cutting down to maybe mid 50's or somewhere.

    Everyone is not getting that its not solely about looks,... its about energy levels. I feel more energetic at certain weights.
    Doesn't cost anyone anything be be nice... like I am an actual human being too.. lol
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  30. #30
    pirate ninja kitteh rockangel's Avatar
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    Again, you write a super long winded reply that doesn't really help any one.

    If you don't have an ed, then you have been given practical advise on what to do.

    1) get on a proven, heavy lifting program. Strong Curves is an excellent program for glutes that was suggested before.

    2) eat to grow muscles, which you will need to get cals up to 2000 or more. This WILL help with energy levels. It also does not matter if all of this is organic, clean etc. 1400 on a cut is too low, and 1696 is not enough if you want more energy and to get bigger glutes. You can not maintain strength or go "up in weights" if the calories are not there to support the work.

    3) add weight for at least 12 months at about a 1 pound per month gain. at 5'6 you can easily bulk to 130 - 140 lbs.

    4)Cut out the cardio for the time being to maintain a healthy weight and energy level.

    5) Stop worrying about bf%, it doesn't matter for anything.

    6) if you want a lifters physique, then you must train and eat like a lifter. If you don't want to gain weight, then you are not training and eating like a lifter.
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