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  1. #1
    Registered User justin51096's Avatar
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    Myriad of health issues potentially caused by low Estrogen. How to raise estrogen?

    The health issues I posted about here one or two years ago have continued and worsened up to this point. I went to the doctor to have my hormone levels checked to see if augmenting my testosterone levels or artificially stimulating additional testosterone production would alleviate the severe fatigue, insomnia, erectile dysfunction, muscle loss and other symptoms that I experience. It turns out that my testosterone levels (to my astonishment) were quite high (920 ng/dl). I don't understand how they can be so high given the insane amount of stress I have been under for the last few years but whatever. What was interesting was that my estrogen levels are very low relative to my testosterone levels. I believe she said it was 13 and that it should be at least double that. I knew estrogen was important...but I wasn't aware that low estrogen was capable of causing the vast majority of symptoms I've been experiencing. My calcium levels were also a bit high. She told me to stop taking all supplements that interfere with estrogen metabolism and that we should retest in 3 to 4 weeks.

    My question is, is there anything I can take that will increase my estrogen levels without severely dropping my testosterone levels? I considered binging on some soy and flax food products but I would imagine that the phytoestrogens in plant foods won't have quite the same effect on my body that actual estrogen will. Can I increase aromatase without gaining fat? Any ideas are greatly appreciated. I am ready to get beyond this insomnia and to start living my life finally.


    PSPS I don't see a suitable section for starting this thread. Please tell me if I missed the right place. I'll delete and repost.
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  2. #2
    Common sense/moderation. gbullock32's Avatar
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    You wouldn't be able to consistently eat enough soy to effect estrogen to any meaningful amount. Talk to your doctor about it, they can always prescribe something if needed, you can't buy anything OTC for that.

    Or... try watching Twilight, that might do it.
    Short cuts to success are often paved with lies.
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    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    My advice would be not to assume that you understand how the endocrine system works - or that you can meaningfully affect it beyond just basic advice to eat nutritious foods, reduce stress, get plenty of sleep.

    If you think you have a real problem, consult an endocrinologist.
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    Registered User cmacken's Avatar
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    OP - it is also possible that your symptoms are being caused by the quote "insane amount of stress you've been under the past few years" - I've suffered from anxiety/depression in the past and experienced everything you mentioned.
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    Suffolk is right. Follow your doc's advise.

    Have you been taking any supplements at all? Hate to be a conspiracy theorist with these things, but you may be taking something that is artificially keeping your E levels low.
    You don't have to be great to start, but you have to start to be great.
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    If you want to increase estrogen op then I would recommend watching a film like dirty dancing
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    Registered User justin51096's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SuffolkPunch View Post
    My advice would be not to assume that you understand how the endocrine system works - or that you can meaningfully affect it beyond just basic advice to eat nutritious foods, reduce stress, get plenty of sleep.

    If you think you have a real problem, consult an endocrinologist.
    It's kind of a chicken or the egg scenario. I can't sleep, dude. I've been trying desperately to sleep for years now. What if it's low estrogen that is preventing me from sleeping in the first place?

    I'm grasping at straws here. I just want to get some sleep, feel better and be able to live my life for once. I'm 24 and the last six years of my life have been robbed from me by benzodiazepines and this insomnia.
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  8. #8
    Registered User justin51096's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by litljay View Post
    Suffolk is right. Follow your doc's advise.

    Have you been taking any supplements at all? Hate to be a conspiracy theorist with these things, but you may be taking something that is artificially keeping your E levels low.
    .zinc 30mg .selenium .vitamin a palmitate .vitamin d (2-4k iu / day) .vitamin k2 mk4 100mcg .vitamin e complex .pantothenic acid .riboflavin .thiamine (a special form called ttfd) .bamboo extract (for silicon content) .Occasionally I take a tongkat ali 200:1 extract .5 to 10 grams of maca most days .vitamin c .200 to 400mg magnesium glycinate per day .6-9 mg of boron per day for achy joints and reduction of shbg .nutritional yeast for b vitamins .a teaspoon each of filtered flax seed oil and grapeseed oil for essential fatty acids that I don't get in my diet .most days I take one or two teaspoons of liquid fish oil .i drink a bottle of homemade water kefir every day

    Ive taken something called HMB to curtail muscle loss due to stress hormones and, despite it being very effective at inhibiting muscle catabolism, I decided to stop taking it. The version I can currently afford is the much cheaper calcium salt version...I had a feeling that the 400mg of calcium it contributed was adversely affecting me.

    Before bed i take a combination of mucuna pruriens, 5htp, p5p (coenzyme form of b6) and a small amount of magnesium. I don't take as much magnesium as I used to as I've had some sort of electrolyte imbalance that is particularly bothersome at night and oftentimes seems to be exacerbated by magnesium intake. I develop severe tetany and an irregular heartbeat. As I understand it, low estrogen can contribute to cardiac arrhythmias.

    My diet is fairly limited right now, which is why I take so many supplements. For the past few years I ate what most would consider an extremely healthy, well rounded diet consisting of a lot of grass feed organic beef, vegetables (lots of spinach, sweet potatoes, arugula, carrots, etc) and healthy fats (avocados, olive oil, coconut oil, ghee). I started to learn about oxalates and how (supposedly) harmful they are, so I hopped on the carnivore diet for about a month. Although my digestive problems went completely away (presumably due to reduced oxalate consumption) I fared very poorly on that diet. I don't tolerate low carb or no carb well at all.
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    Registered User justin51096's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by safcpaul View Post
    If you want to increase estrogen op then I would recommend watching a film like dirty dancing
    genius!
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    Registered User justin51096's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cmacken View Post
    OP - it is also possible that your symptoms are being caused by the quote "insane amount of stress you've been under the past few years" - I've suffered from anxiety/depression in the past and experienced everything you mentioned.
    Of course. But, how can I know that the estrogen levels aren't contributing to or causing the problem? The effects of low estrogen are the same as sleep loss in and of itself...and it can cause insomnia!
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    Registered User justin51096's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gbullock32 View Post
    You wouldn't be able to consistently eat enough soy to effect estrogen to any meaningful amount. Talk to your doctor about it, they can always prescribe something if needed, you can't buy anything OTC for that.

    Or... try watching Twilight, that might do it.
    I might end up going that route (The prescription route haha)
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    Registered User Heisman2's Avatar
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    Do you have a psychiatrist? If not I would consider going to one as they can help with insomnia.
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    Registered User justin51096's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Heisman2 View Post
    Do you have a psychiatrist? If not I would consider going to one as they can help with insomnia.
    Not a fan of being a psychiatrist's guinea pig. Too many bad experiences with prescription phsyciatric medications.
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    Originally Posted by justin51096 View Post
    Not a fan of being a psychiatrist's guinea pig. Too many bad experiences with prescription phsyciatric medications.
    I really think you should be heeding your doctors advice about stopping your supplementation so they can properly assess your hormone levels

    I also think you should stick to in person professional advice rather than us on the internet.
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    Registered User Heisman2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by justin51096 View Post
    Not a fan of being a psychiatrist's guinea pig. Too many bad experiences with prescription phsyciatric medications.
    It can take a long time to find an appropriate medication regimen. Therapy is also very beneficial. I'd seriously consider it.
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    Registered User justin51096's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Heisman2 View Post
    It can take a long time to find an appropriate medication regimen. Therapy is also very beneficial. I'd seriously consider it.
    Neither the psychiatrists nor the manufacturers of the drugs that the psychiatrists prescribe know how their medications work. It's all just guesswork...throwing **** at a wall to see how things work. The history of psychiatry as a professional medical field is quite interesting...they were considered quacks, and rightly so. The only reason they have any sort of legitimacy today is because the pharmaceutical industry which owns our medical system has pushed them onto us. I've been severely harmed by phsyciatric medication prescribed to me by "professionals". My body can't tolerate any more damage from these drugs.
    Last edited by justin51096; 11-03-2020 at 09:28 PM.
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    Registered User justin51096's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cmacken View Post
    I really think you should be heeding your doctors advice about stopping your supplementation so they can properly assess your hormone levels

    I also think you should stick to in person professional advice rather than us on the internet.
    I figured that there were some agreed upon methods for increasing e2 just as there are methods for reducing it.
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    Originally Posted by justin51096 View Post
    I figured that there were some agreed upon methods for increasing e2 just as there are methods for reducing it.
    The only reliable way to do so naturally would be to increase body fat, which I don‘t suggest you do unless you’re excessively lean.
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    Originally Posted by justin51096 View Post
    Neither the psychiatrists nor the manufacturers of the drugs that the psychiatrists prescribe know how their medications work. It's all just guesswork...throwing **** at a wall to see how things work. The history of psychiatry as a professional medical field is quite interesting...they were considered quacks, and rightly so. The only reason they have any sort of legitimacy today is because the pharmaceutical industry which owns our medical system has pushed them onto us. I've been severely harmed by phsyciatric medication prescribed to me by "professionals". My body can't tolerate any more damage from these drugs.
    I have worked with several psychiatrists who are good people. You perhaps did not have a good one to work with previously. Good luck to you moving forward with whatever you decide to do.
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    Originally Posted by justin51096 View Post
    It's kind of a chicken or the egg scenario. I can't sleep, dude. I've been trying desperately to sleep for years now. What if it's low estrogen that is preventing me from sleeping in the first place?

    I'm grasping at straws here. I just want to get some sleep, feel better and be able to live my life for once. I'm 24 and the last six years of my life have been robbed from me by benzodiazepines and this insomnia.
    I can understand the frustration and desire to take matters into your own hands - but that will lead to chasing your tail. You should trust the experts. Wait until you've taken time off the supplements and get a retest like the doc said. Hormone levels out of kilter are usually a symptom of a problem - not the cause, it's like people who blame insulin for weight gain - no, insulin is a consequence of of eating too many calories.

    There is nothing to make you produce more estrogen. My view is that this is a blind alley. Also, take Heisman's advice, he is a qualified MD.

    I assume you follow all the usual sleep hygeine protocols - no eating or using screens too close to bedtime, get enough daylight in your eyes during the day.

    You mentioned muscle loss - could be a simple case of under eating. What is your height and weight?
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    Originally Posted by Heisman2 View Post
    I have worked with several psychiatrists who are good people. You perhaps did not have a good one to work with previously. Good luck to you moving forward with whatever you decide to do.
    I know that many people have been "helped" by psychiatrists and the medications they prescribe, but I know of just as many if not more that have been severely harmed by them. I'm not questioning the intent of the psychiatrists themselves...I'm sure 99% of them intend to do good. There underlying problem with the field with psychiatry is that they don't know (most of) the drugs that they prescribe actually work and of course they generally treat symptoms rather than looking for the cause of the symptoms. This isn't a responsible approach to maintaining one's health and preventing disease in my experience and the experience of countless others.

    I do sincerely appreciate your recommendation and I know you wish the best for me. Thank you. Psychiatric medication just isn't for me.
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    Registered User justin51096's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SuffolkPunch View Post
    I can understand the frustration and desire to take matters into your own hands - but that will lead to chasing your tail. You should trust the experts. Wait until you've taken time off the supplements and get a retest like the doc said. Hormone levels out of kilter are usually a symptom of a problem - not the cause, it's like people who blame insulin for weight gain - no, insulin is a consequence of of eating too many calories.

    There is nothing to make you produce more estrogen. My view is that this is a blind alley. Also, take Heisman's advice, he is a qualified MD.

    I assume you follow all the usual sleep hygeine protocols - no eating or using screens too close to bedtime, get enough daylight in your eyes during the day.

    You mentioned muscle loss - could be a simple case of under eating. What is your height and weight?

    Understood. "There is nothing to make you produce more estrogen" is the answer I was looking for.

    While I agree with what you said about hormone levels being out of whack normally being a symptom rather than a cause, I'm skeptical of that in my case. The insomnia went from 0 to 100 when I got off of benzodiazepines in July of 2016 and has remained like that ever since (I had to get off of them because of the numerous adverse effects I was experiencing from taking them long term). I've been dealing with crippling levels of stress ever since (Benzodiazepines cause downregulation of gaba receptors when taken long term. When the drug is no longer present to potentiate the gaba receptors which remain, one is left in a sympathetic dominant state. This in-and-of-ifself is stressful...but once that condition is coupled with with the sleep loss that accompanies it, you have a recipe for disaster. It is well known that the body is not designed to deal with severe, chronic stress and that such stress will eventually lead to dysregulation of the HPA axis and downregulation of genes.

    I can't say for *certain* what the cause of the insomnia is. It is a bit of a chicken or the egg scenario. Am I still not sleeping because of protracted benzodiazepine withdrawal (which many people deal with once getting off of benzos), or am I not sleeping because my body cannot "stabilize" or re-regulate the communication of the HPA axis? Since it communicates via a feedback loop and there is a high likelihood that the feedback loop is dysfunctional, how does one go about resetting it? I don't necessarily know and no doctor that i have seen about this proble has had an answer fot me. All I know right now in this moment is that my estrogen is quite low according to my doctor and that it the symptom profile of low estrogen fits with what I'm experiencing. Perhaps if I can get that number higher I will experience enough of a reduction in symptoms that my body can finally heal.

    I will stop the supplements in question and wait to retest in a few weeks. I've been going through this for a long time and was excited to learn of a potential cause... that's all. I've had to develop a lot of patience and faith that things will get better in time so we will just see how things play out. I really appreciate you contributing to this thread. Thank you.
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    Registered User justin51096's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SuffolkPunch View Post
    I can understand the frustration and desire to take matters into your own hands - but that will lead to chasing your tail. You should trust the experts. Wait until you've taken time off the supplements and get a retest like the doc said. Hormone levels out of kilter are usually a symptom of a problem - not the cause, it's like people who blame insulin for weight gain - no, insulin is a consequence of of eating too many calories.

    There is nothing to make you produce more estrogen. My view is that this is a blind alley. Also, take Heisman's advice, he is a qualified MD.

    I assume you follow all the usual sleep hygeine protocols - no eating or using screens too close to bedtime, get enough daylight in your eyes during the day.

    You mentioned muscle loss - could be a simple case of under eating. What is your height and weight?

    I forgot to respond to your other points/ questions...


    My sleep hygeine is quite good. I even use blue light blocking glasses after the sun goes down.


    I don't undereat. The loss of muscle occurs at any caloric intake in my experience. I've had my cortisol levels checked and they have been elevated. The cortisol is causing my body to consume my its muscle to maintain a steady supply of blood glucose.

    Currently I weigh 181 lbs. I'm 6' tall. I've gained a considerable amount of fat and have lost quite a bit of muscle in the last two months.
    Last edited by justin51096; 11-04-2020 at 11:31 AM.
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    Originally Posted by justin51096 View Post
    Neither the psychiatrists nor the manufacturers of the drugs that the psychiatrists prescribe know how their medications work. It's all just guesswork...throwing **** at a wall to see how things work. The history of psychiatry as a professional medical field is quite interesting...they were considered quacks, and rightly so. The only reason they have any sort of legitimacy today is because the pharmaceutical industry which owns our medical system has pushed them onto us. I've been severely harmed by phsyciatric medication prescribed to me by "professionals". My body can't tolerate any more damage from these drugs.
    Sounds like you already know everything, so no need to ask for advice.
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    Originally Posted by rhadam View Post
    Sounds like you already know everything, so no need to ask for advice.
    I don't see how knowing something about the pharmaceutical industry and prescription drugs means that i know everything. I don't know that much about estrogen and needed advice on raising it, hence my question.

    Thanks for the super helpful comment by the way! 👍
    Last edited by justin51096; 11-04-2020 at 05:23 PM.
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    Originally Posted by justin51096 View Post
    .zinc 30mg .selenium .vitamin a palmitate .vitamin d (2-4k iu / day) .vitamin k2 mk4 100mcg .vitamin e complex .pantothenic acid .riboflavin .thiamine (a special form called ttfd) .bamboo extract (for silicon content) .Occasionally I take a tongkat ali 200:1 extract .5 to 10 grams of maca most days .vitamin c .200 to 400mg magnesium glycinate per day .6-9 mg of boron per day for achy joints and reduction of shbg .nutritional yeast for b vitamins .a teaspoon each of filtered flax seed oil and grapeseed oil for essential fatty acids that I don't get in my diet .most days I take one or two teaspoons of liquid fish oil .i drink a bottle of homemade water kefir every day.

    Before bed i take a combination of mucuna pruriens, 5htp, p5p (coenzyme form of b6) and a small amount of magnesium.
    I recommend you quit ALL supplements except vitamin D. That's the only one you need.

    I wouldn't be surprised if your sleep gets better after that.

    Originally Posted by justin51096 View Post
    The loss of muscle occurs at any caloric intake in my experience.

    Currently I weigh 181 lbs. I'm 6' tall.

    I've gained a considerable amount of fat and have lost quite a bit of muscle in the last two months.
    The muscle loss is probably in your head. Someone at age 24 180 lb who lifts isn't going to lose significant muscle.

    Originally Posted by justin51096 View Post
    It's kind of a chicken or the egg scenario. I can't sleep, dude. I've been trying desperately to sleep for years now. What if it's low estrogen that is preventing me from sleeping in the first place?
    To be honest, I think you'd benefit from talking with a psychologist. It seems that you have a lot of thought patterns that are stressing you out.
    Last edited by Mrpb; 11-04-2020 at 10:48 PM.
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    Originally Posted by justin51096 View Post
    My diet is fairly limited right now, which is why I take so many supplements. For the past few years I ate what most would consider an extremely healthy, well rounded diet consisting of a lot of grass feed organic beef, vegetables (lots of spinach, sweet potatoes, arugula, carrots, etc) and healthy fats (avocados, olive oil, coconut oil, ghee). I started to learn about oxalates and how (supposedly) harmful they are, so I hopped on the carnivore diet for about a month. Although my digestive problems went completely away (presumably due to reduced oxalate consumption) I fared very poorly on that diet. I don't tolerate low carb or no carb well at all.
    You've been getting your information in all the wrong places.

    Grass fed beef isn't healthier than normal beef. Oxalates aren't harmful to the large majority of people. The carnivore diet is one of the worst things you can do for your health.

    Just eat a normal diet that includes plenty of vegetables, fruit and fiber.
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    How about stress reduction?

    And a varied diet. Eat a different veg every day.
    Carrot, onions, leeks, broccoli, cauliflower, asparagus, savoy cabbage; pak choi, beet root, kohlrabi, etc etc
    Add legimes and pulses.
    Meat and fish and nuts and seeds and grains.
    And fruits.

    There was this Tasmanian guy who catalogued over 30000 edible plants so people won't go hungry.

    Eat every day a different plant and you have food for 90 years.
    Last edited by andy0w; 11-04-2020 at 11:23 PM.
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    Registered User justin51096's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    I recommend you quit ALL supplements except vitamin D. That's the only one you need.

    I wouldn't be surprised if your sleep gets better after that.



    The muscle loss is probably in your head. Someone at age 24 180 lb who lifts isn't going to lose significant muscle.



    To be honest, I think you'd benefit from talking with a psychologist. It seems that you have a lot of thought patterns that are stressing you out.

    Why is it that I can't seem to ask a question without people jumping to conclusions about my mental state of health? This isn't something I actively worry about throughout the day. I've devoted a lot of time over the last 6-8 months to work on myself and have come to peace with this situation. Objectively speaking what I've gone through has been hell...but I've learned so many incredible lessons from this experience and I know they will serve me well once this is all over. I'm very optimistic, I expect to get better Again, and I am not worried about anything not working out in my favor in the end. Again, how does asking health related questions on a health oriented website presuppose anxiety or obsessive thoughts about my health? Is it not normal for people who are experiencing health problems to SOMETIMES ask what may be the cause of those health issues...especially when they are asking people for advice? Lets say my car stopped running and wouldn't start. If I were to go to a mechanic and ask him what is wrong with my car and he said "You need to see a psychologist...you have unhealthy thoughts about your car" would that make any sense at all? No asking what is wrong with my car doesn't mean that's all I think about.

    About the muscle loss...I can't lift currently due to severe fatigue. I'm dying to lift again but I haven't done so in many months. Muscle loss and fat gain isn't in my head. It's blatantly obvious when I stay at close to the same weight while gaining 5 or 6 pounds of body fat. Gluconeogenesis. Your body will respond to stress the same way regardless of age. It doesn't matter if someone is 12, 24 or 70...not sleeping for many days at a time for years on end will seriously harm anyone.

    I've tried going without any supplements and I do worse.
    Last edited by justin51096; 11-05-2020 at 05:06 AM.
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    Registered User justin51096's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by andy0w View Post
    How about stress reduction?

    And a varied diet. Eat a different veg every day.
    Carrot, onions, leeks, broccoli, cauliflower, asparagus, savoy cabbage; pak choi, beet root, kohlrabi, etc etc
    Add legimes and pulses.
    Meat and fish and nuts and seeds and grains.
    And fruits.

    There was this Tasmanian guy who catalogued over 30000 edible plants so people won't go hungry.

    Eat every day a different plant and you have food for 90 years.
    How does one reduce stress if they can't get the sleep necessary to reduce stress in the first place? I meditate and don't permit myself to worry about things any more. That doesn't solve the inability to sleep.
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