Pro-refugee folks, explain your opinions to me.

[ODBM]

I understand that some people in this world live in terrible conditions and want to flee to places that are not terrible. I understand that you must feel selfless and righteous to want to facilitate their escape and even welcome them into your own country.

But don't you realize that you can never solve the problem of other people living in terrible countries by importing them from those countries? There are simply too many of them, and mass immigration will still not put a dent in the total number of people living in those conditions. Worse and perhaps more importantly, it is a liability to those in your own communities to import these people.

That said, why would anyone support refugee efforts and mass immigration? Please explain to me.

[metco]

In many countries we are directly responsible for them being hell holes, after we overthrew democratically elected leaders like Allende, Mossadeq, etc. and financing torturers more sympathetic to US business. We should admit refugees who are at risk of being killed as political dissidents if they return, or being forced into child prostitution or a forced marriage. No we can't take everyone who wants to come here but we don't to lose our humanity. The sheltering of the persecuted is a Christian concept.

[InstantLoser]

In many countries we are directly responsible for them being hell holes, after we overthrew democratically elected leaders like Allende, Mossadeq, etc. and financing torturers more sympathetic to US business. We should admit refugees who are at risk of being killed as political dissidents if they return, or being forced into child prostitution or a forced marriage. No we can't take everyone who wants to come here but we don't to lose our humanity. The sheltering of the persecuted is a Christian concept.

The lord also said "God helps those who help themselves". Or, translated to Misc; Fukc off, we're full.

[ODBM]

If you want to end the suffering of other people, then do your part to improve their countries. Donate goods, donate services, learn new languages, interact and sow seeds of friendship between your culture and theirs.

Importing these people does not strengthen their countries of origin. It only weakens your own.

In many countries we are directly responsible for them being hell holes, after we overthrew democratically elected leaders like Allende, Mossadeq, etc. and financing torturers more sympathetic to US business. We should admit refugees who are at risk of being killed as political dissidents if they return, or being forced into child prostitution or a forced marriage. No we can't take everyone who wants to come here but we don't to lose our humanity. The sheltering of the persecuted is a Christian concept.

We can argue the point about how responsible "we" are. But even if we were 100% responsible, it still must be said that importing people does not fix the problems in their regions of the world.

[InstantLoser]

Importing these people does not strengthen their countries of origin. It only weakens your own.

And it costs more $$$.

[TheAdz95]

In many countries we are directly responsible for them being hell holes, after we overthrew democratically elected leaders like Allende, Mossadeq, etc. and financing torturers more sympathetic to US business. We should admit refugees who are at risk of being killed as political dissidents if they return, or being forced into child prostitution or a forced marriage. No we can't take everyone who wants to come here but we don't to lose our humanity. The sheltering of the persecuted is a Christian concept.

Who's 'we'?
Did I personally attack them?
What if I'm against the government's intervention in many of these countries?
Why am I forced to accept people with whom I have not done anything to?

[Tha big kahoona]

Visit a war torn area. See the place for yourself. There are plenty in the world, choose one. Until you do that, this debate is largely pointless. Not because one needs to be there to understand the gravity of the situation, but because of your starting point of no compassion.

Compassion is the crux of this argument, and given that you have none, attempting to convince you will get nowhere.

It's obvious from your wording that you've seen the anti-immigration (marbles) video at some point. A video that has been disproven ad naseum given all the false assumptions it starts with

[John L]

Honestly I'm OK with refugees as long as they go back once the situation in their country is deemed safe enough to return to. They must be Christian or other minority faiths, though. I do not support Muslim refugees coming here because they adhere to the worlds worst religion and are at odds with the West.

[WeekndOrNah]

My entire family in the US (aka my dad's side, but only my mom) were Vietnamese boat people. They went through the extensive vetting process. They lived in a Malaysian refugee camp until they got accepted into the US (a year+)

Everyone else should it the exact same fukking way, including immigrants from south of the border.

[ODBM]

Visit a war torn area. See the place for yourself. There are plenty in the world, choose one. Until you do that, this debate is largely pointless. Not because one needs to be there to understand the gravity of the situation, but because of your starting point of no compassion.

Oh I'm very compassionate. There are terrible places on this planet and it would be great if they could all be improved.

But they can't be improved by importing the natives.

(Also no, the marbles video has not been disproved in any capacity.)

[Dave22reborn]

Visit a war torn area. See the place for yourself. There are plenty in the world, choose one. Until you do that, this debate is largely pointless. Not because one needs to be there to understand the gravity of the situation, but because of your starting point of no compassion.

Compassion is the crux of this argument, and given that you have none, attempting to convince you will get nowhere.

It's obvious from your wording that you've seen the anti-immigration (marbles) video at some point. A video that has been disproven ad naseum given all the false assumptions it starts with

You'd have a lot more sympathy if you actually behaved in your host country.

[Tha big kahoona]

Oh I'm very compassionate. There are terrible places on this planet and it would be great if they could all be improved.

But they can't be improved by importing the natives.

(Also no, the marbles video has not been disproved in any capacity.)

It has been disproven. Among many of the flase assumptions it uses is that the presenter thinks that welcoming refugees is an American responsibility only. It is not, and no one ever said it was.

And no, you clearly lack compassion. You know very well that i would love to go back and forth with you on this, but there's no point. This is not a "logical" discussion, it's rooted in compassion, and you have none.

You're better off trying to argue that compassion is a LMFAO beta weak lol trait than you are trying to convince anyone that you have any

[Tha big kahoona]

You'd have a lot more sympathy if you actually behaved in your host country.

You'd make a lot more sense if you didn't always peddle collectivist crap. I assess people individually, not collectively.

[VSVP99]

Visit a war torn area. See the place for yourself. There are plenty in the world, choose one. Until you do that, this debate is largely pointless. Not because one needs to be there to understand the gravity of the situation, but because of your starting point of no compassion.

Compassion is the crux of this argument, and given that you have none, attempting to convince you will get nowhere.

It's obvious from your wording that you've seen the anti-immigration (marbles) video at some point. A video that has been disproven ad naseum given all the false assumptions it starts with

In the case of a muslim refugee - it's altruism for someone whose political, social and religious duty it is to convert me to 5th century hysteria. Or, kill me.

Makes sense. Why are we not bringing millions in a year by now?

That is just too much feels to pass up.




I'm all for compassion. But there is a line between compassion and altruism. When charity becomes only for the benefit of the receiver, it is no longer charity.

I'm not against people who come from islamic countries. I am against the spread of their system of islam. For obvious reasons.

[dan987]

Oh I'm very compassionate. There are terrible places on this planet and it would be great if they could all be improved.

But they can't be improved by importing the natives.

(Also no, the marbles video has not been disproved in any capacity.)

What usually happens is they come to the US, get money, and then invest/send some home. Rather than the US donate all the money, they're actually working for it themselves.

Some even get degrees here and then go back.

In my case I'm an immigrant but consider myself American first because the US is my home and it represents everything I'm for. So I guess I fked over the country I was born in lol.


And while I'm for immigration (I'm biased), honestly I'm not a fan of muslim immigration. I'm not gonna lie, muslim college friends are some of the best friends you can meet - they'll have your back - but when they show you their wife or daughter and she's covered... I'm sorry but there's something clearly wrong with that. The biggest problem with islam is that it's not a religion, it's a race. And that's why it can be so dangerous in a world where we're moving towards the complete opposite of old old teachings.

As I understand it, the bible is the interpretation of god's word. With Quran it's the literal word of god - aka good fking luck convincing them to change any belief

[Dave22reborn]

You'd make a lot more sense if you didn't always peddle collectivist crap. I assess people individually, not collectively.

Well Western Europe would disagree.

[TheAdz95]

You'd make a lot more sense if you didn't always peddle collectivist crap. I assess people individually, not collectively.

Just because we share the same earth doesn't mean we have to let in anyone and everyone.
We live in nation states, showing compassion would mean we respect people's right to live safely and peacefully in their own countries.
There is too much anarchy, division for us to be forced to live together.
as seen in Europe and everywhere that preaches this divisive tolerance nonsense.

[ODBM]

It has been disproven. Among many of the flase assumptions it uses is that the presenter thinks that welcoming refugees is an American responsibility only. It is not, and no one ever said it was.

You are absolutely wrong on this point. While it does specifically discuss the American burden of migrants, it does not purport that it is solely up to America. Even if we factor in every first-world country, it is still not possible to solve the problem by importing people from terrible regions of the world.

Also, this is absolutely a logical discussion regarding what works and what does not work. If I could snap my fingers and make every country in the world peaceful and prosperous, I would. But since that's not realistic, what we are discussing is whether or not importing refugees from a crap country will help to fix that crap country (hint: it won't).

What usually happens is they come to the US, get money, and then invest/send some home. Rather than the US donate all the money, they're actually working for it themselves.

This is more true in the case of people who apply for citizenship because they have ambitions related to business, education or quality of life. It is not as true for refugees and economic migrants.

You do border on making a good point about them getting degrees; however, it would be more effective to bring quality education to struggling regions rather than bring individuals from those regions over to receive a quality education before going back. In many places these services are already provided and have led to improvements.

[dan987]

^Trust me, it's more true for non-citizens because they're scared they're going to get deported tomorrow. So they're investing money back home so they have something to go back to in worst case scenario. That is unless the refugee has absolutely 0 contacts back home.

Meanwhile a citizen will invest money here in the US because they know will get a much much bigger ROI.

On your later point, I mean a lot of people are in favor of cutting back on foreign spending - though foreign spending is less than 1% I believe. I'd be for that, I'd just wonder if it's the US' responsibility? It should definitely be like a UN thing or something

[TheAmericano]

The with problem these refugees these days, is all about the refusal to assimilate.

- We are proud to be Americans so when others come here and don't want to learn our cultural, language,,,etc that's a slap in the face.

- I'm all for people bettering themselves and if you want to come to America and help make it better and assimilate yourself properly, then come over. If not, go somewhere else.

- There are lots of communities throughout the US that are heavy Latin and Asian. These communities have kept their culture and beliefs but also have assimilated properly to a point that if I walk into one of these communities I still feel like I'm in America, not some 3rd world chit hole.

- From what I've seen (in Europe) with these Syrian refugee is that they have taken over areas and refuse to assimilate.

- They alienate themselves and want to make whatever country their in Syria 2.0.


and that's the problem

What usually happens is they come to the US, get money, and then invest/send some home. Rather than the US donate all the money, they're actually working for it themselves.

Some even get degrees here and then go back.

In my case I'm an immigrant but consider myself American first because the US is my home and it represents everything I'm for. So I guess I fked over the country I was born in lol.

But are you a citizen if not , you know what you have to do.



lol, jk..mayybe

[Tha big kahoona]

When charity becomes only for the benefit of the receiver, it is no longer charity.

Is dis homie trolling me?

[superiorlogic]

It has been disproven. Among many of the flase assumptions it uses is that the presenter thinks that welcoming refugees is an American responsibility only. It is not, and no one ever said it was.

And no, you clearly lack compassion. You know very well that i would love to go back and forth with you on this, but there's no point. This is not a "logical" discussion, it's rooted in compassion, and you have none.

You're better off trying to argue that compassion is a LMFAO beta weak lol trait than you are trying to convince anyone that you have any

Are you open to the possibility that compassion can lead to bad things? What then?

[TheAmericano]

Is dis homie trolling me?

No dat homie is dropping truth on you

- Thank God countries in Europe stepped up and took the lead so we can see how much of a mistake it is to open our doors to these refugees

[ODBM]

On your later point, I mean a lot of people are in favor of cutting back on foreign spending - though foreign spending is less than 1% I believe. I'd be for that, I'd just wonder if it's the US' responsibility? It should definitely be like a UN thing or something

No I don't think it's anyone's responsibility. I'm just commenting about it being a more effective method of combating misery than mass immigration.

[Tha big kahoona]

Are you open to the possibility that compassion can lead to bad things? What then?

Of course. No one is advocating an open door policy.

The US refugee vetting process is usually on point. Take up to 2 years actually. Of the 784,000 refugees who have been resettled since 9/11, 3 have been arrested on some kind of terrorism charges. Figures are from 2015.

[Tha big kahoona]

No dat homie is dropping truth on you

- Thank God countries in Europe stepped up and took the lead so we can see how much of a mistake it is to open our doors to these refugees

No, he is not, and that is not up for debate. Open a dictionary

[TheAmericano]

No, he is not, and that is not up for debate. Open a dictionary

lol...you try so hard

location: *****. Don't worry you guys will be next

[Tha big kahoona]

lol...you try so hard

location: *****. Don't worry you guys will be next

I don't think so hombre

[dan987]

But are you a citizen if not , you know what you have to do.



lol, jk..mayybe

Fk you lmao

Green card holder, lived in NY from 9-25 (came from balkans/eastern europe and had long complicated immigration case), gotta wait couple more years to apply for citizen. Sucks but what are you gonna do. The worst part was finding out you had to be citizen to join the NYPD... but at least I went after my CS degree

I wholeheartedly agree with your assimilation points though. For me it's hard to understand how people move into the US and refuse to assimilate. I mean I'm just technically a resident/green card holder and show the American flag more than my birth country's flag lol... I guess just different people have different ideas on things..

[TheAmericano]

I don't think so hombre

I'm not hispanic.

Fk you lmao

Green card holder, lived in NY from 9-25 (came from balkans/eastern europe and had long complicated immigration case), gotta wait couple more years to apply for citizen. Sucks but what are you gonna do. The worst part was finding out you had to be citizen to join the NYPD... but at least I went after my CS degree

I wholeheartedly agree with your assimilation points though. For me it's hard to understand how people move into the US and refuse to assimilate. I mean I'm just technically a resident/green card holder and show the American flag more than my birth country's flag lol... I guess just different people have different ideas on things..

Lots of the banks and even some of the top law firms in the city are looking for CS degrees, especially if you can do something in IT security, go after that.

The refusal to assimilate is a srs issue. Then some will blame it on the host country and say it's their fault