Not Seeing Results, Need Help

[drudixon]

Variety isn't necessary at your level, but if it keeps you in the gym.

In my brief 7 years at the gym, I've never seen anyone with a physique worth talking about who did exotic isolation movements.

[pasty64]

Little update on this.

I stuck with the Fierce 5 for awhile but noticed my form wasn't great and was constantly on my phone googling correct form and watching myself. I decided to try the Body Beast video's where my wife had the account already. I know a lot people on here are not fans but I felt like it would help me. I've stuck with that for the last 2 months. I've seen some gains but over all I've learned a lot, mostly about correct form and what movement is exercising the different parts of the body, but also help me see my goals better and focus harder. I'm not a fan of Sagi or the over all program but it was the easiest way for me to learn without a trainer. Body Beast is a 6 day program and each day focuses on on muscle group int he second block, the frist combines 2 and the last block is a combination of frist and second blocks with more cardio.

I'm almost done the second 2 block in the program and the next block is more focused on cutting. I don't think I'm going to do that just yet, I'm either going to redo the second block or focus back on the fierce 5 program. I like the shorter video's and being 6 days a week fits my life better than a hour or more every second day. Once my kids get back in school and i don't have the free time in the mornings like I do now the 3 to 4 days a week programs might be better and i've have to workout int he evenings.

My weight hasn't really increased, I seem to hover between 154 to 157. My body fat has gone down a bit, my chest and back have seen the most changes overall but I've noticed small changes everywhere. I had increased my intake to 3200 calories but I seemed to put on weight too fast at that level so I reduced it 2800 calories and that seems to be at a good level for me. I increased my protein to 170g and my carbs to 350g. I've been tracking my food like crazy, my wife says I'm a nazi with it and gets annoyed with my alot lol. I struggle a bit with my diet, eating the right calories and reaching my daily goal without over doing the sugar or sodium is the hardest for me. I've been learning about about different foods and what is best for my goals but I'm still not educated enough on the subject to feel I've figured it all out. I try to get most of my protein from real food and limited the whey to about 30g a day. I could spend a fortune on food to get what I need but I've trying to control the costs by figuring out what foods have the most benefits for me without breaking the bank.

I also bought a squat rack, better bench and more weights. Greatly helps with all the programs. I didn't have all the stuff with my frist round of Fierce 5 and I think that's why I didn't enjoy the program, changing weights all the time from one exercise to another was a pain.

Once I finish the second block in Body Beast I'll be at an impasse and have to decide how to continue. I feel like if i don't complete it I'm failing in away. I'm tried of listening to the guy in Body Beast and if he tells me I'm going to need a new shirt one more time I'm going to quite all together lol. I feel more focused moving forward and want to pick the right program and stick with it for the long term, I'm all ears for suggestions.

[Zjunky]

The important thing is that you are making progress. As you've already discovered, it won't happen overnight.

At your weight, you don't have to worry about the scale so much. Judge by your performance and what you see in the mirror.

Learning to cook for fitness is a huge part of the struggle. Having the support of the people you live with can make a difference. If your wife/GF/SO thinks you are obsessing, you might be. But it will become easier once you've done it enough that you can eyeball things and not have to look up everything. And I've found they can sometimes be quite supportive when you volunteer to take a bunch of the kitchen duties. And by cooking yourself, it's a lot easier to keep the sugar and sodium intake under control.

Good luck!

[ChristianMR]

Pasty, judging by the rest of this thread. Your problems are:

(1) You're not sticking with your programs. Quitting in a month doesn't give you enough time.

(2) You're not eating enough. People gain weight by eating, not by lifting. Lifting will help make sure that most (hopefully) of the weight gain is muscle rather than fat, but it's the caloric excess that packs on the pounds.

There are tons of good starting programs, and they will all work (Fierce 5, Starting Strength, etc.) if you eat well and stay with them. There is no magical program. The key is consistency and dedication.

[pasty64]

Pasty, judging by the rest of this thread. Your problems are:

(1) You're not sticking with your programs. Quitting in a month doesn't give you enough time.

(2) You're not eating enough. People gain weight by eating, not by lifting. Lifting will help make sure that most (hopefully) of the weight gain is muscle rather than fat, but it's the caloric excess that packs on the pounds.

There are tons of good starting programs, and they will all work (Fierce 5, Starting Strength, etc.) if you eat well and stay with them. There is no magical program. The key is consistency and dedication.

I don't disagree with any of that. And that is why I want to pick the right program and see it through. Body Beast was a bit of a waste of time but I learned a lot which was great. I started out with Fierce 5 dumbbell program and didn't stick with that because I was new and unmotivated, flopped around to a few programs and didn't like the schedules, and thats part of the reason why I stopped the Novice program. I'd really like something that I could work out 2 days in a row because Saturday and Sunday's and the best days for me where I'm off and the kids doesn't have to go anywheres. Not working out one of those days feels like such a waste. Once the kids are back in school I'll have to work out in the early evenings and I'll only have about a half hour to 45 minutes realistically so I don't want a supper long routine. I liked Body Beast because the second block was mostly 30 minutes with a warm and the longest was 40 minutes. But being 6 days a week focusing on area at a time wasn't right. I'm going back to Fierce 5 Novice and going to make it work, started it today.

Now about my diet, should I be eating more? Up the protein, carbs and fats?

[ElrondHubbard]

I don't disagree with any of that. And that is why I want to pick the right program and see it through. Body Beast was a bit of a waste of time but I learned a lot which was great. I started out with Fierce 5 dumbbell program and didn't stick with that because I was new and unmotivated, flopped around to a few programs and didn't like the schedules, and thats part of the reason why I stopped the Novice program. I'd really like something that I could work out 2 days in a row because Saturday and Sunday's and the best days for me where I'm off and the kids doesn't have to go anywheres. Not working out one of those days feels like such a waste. Once the kids are back in school I'll have to work out in the early evenings and I'll only have about a half hour to 45 minutes realistically so I don't want a supper long routine. I liked Body Beast because the second block was mostly 30 minutes with a warm and the longest was 40 minutes. But being 6 days a week focusing on area at a time wasn't right. I'm going back to Fierce 5 Novice and going to make it work, started it today.

Now about my diet, should I be eating more? Up the protein, carbs and fats?

Paragraph 1: Whatever your schedule, you need to make time to do a quality workout. You may have to give up something else to accommodate it. It's a matter of priority. If this is important enough for you, you will find the time somewhere.

Paragraph 2: Yes.

[DumbAnvil]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but for beginner's program choice should not be a headache.

I've read most of the 'beginner stuff' before electing one, they all amount to pretty much the same: heavy compound movements, eat, sleep, rinse repeat.

I do just that 3 times a week and see good results. Nothing to show for really, but lifts go up so something is happening...

YMMV, but I dislike those fancy programs with a lot of stuff in it. I'm pretty sure they're good for advance bbers. But me, I have no muscle nor strength. So I'm happy with the full body: 3-4 exercises per session tops et max 1H in the gym.

I could never muster enough intensity with the require volume of your initial program for instance.

[pasty64]

Figured I'd post another update on this.

My results are slow but are there. I haven't seen a lot of different in some areas of my body but I have in others. Unfortunately I've been plagued with injuries, not sure if they are all related to lifting but definitely effect it. I started off by getting tennis elbow in my left arm to to poor form, then i started to develop pain in my left knee. Now I have a whole new issue that's very painful and uncomfortable which has stopped me from lifting at together, it's more of a embarrassing affliction than anything else.

My body weight has't increased much but my lifts have so I know something is working. I creased my calorie and protein intake and I might pump them up again to see what happens.

I've stuck with a basic compound lift program for 3 or 4 days a week. I've been putting more effort into my lifts and watching my form. With winter coming and I'll be stuck in the house more it will allow me to concentrate on it more. I've created the habit of exercising and it bothering the hell out of me that i can't right now.

[grubman]

Patsy, I gave you reps because it is nice to see that you have stuck with it.

That said...it's been nine months of waffling around. Do you realize if you had just stuck with 1 tested progressive program, focused on one goal, and managed your diet responsibly this post would be very different?

"It's been 9 months. I've gained 20 pounds and I look great. My lifts have slowed down, but I'm still making 0slow progress, and they are a ton more than when I started."

In 6 more months I hope to see a different post and some awesome progress shots. You have the desire...but stop looking for the "perfect" program. There aren't any. Dedication is good...but I've seen people half-step for years without anything to show for it. You don't have to be obsessive about it, but you have been given the blueprint to success in this very thread...it's pretty simple (there is no magic).

[Watsonm5]

I agree with Grubman on the waffling thing as I did the SAME EXACT BOUNCE AROUND BULL**** because I never stuck with anything because I have no patience whatsoever. NONE! I went back to basics... again...read the stickies. Focused on my diet and progression with my lifts. I finally started seeing gains when I knew how to eat and used progression in Fierce 5. They key is that you have to stay consistent and gradually progress on lifts. Believe or not it actually works. Listen to the experts. I finally did after 1.5yrs of bouncing around. Now I'm finally starting to get stronger and progress. Keep it simple and don't over analyze. Good luck!

[pasty64]

I've stuck with the Vikings the Barebones full body. It fit my equipment well and being 3 days a week I felt like I'd see my weight go up with more rest time. I plan to stick with this routine for the long run. I have it burned into my brain and it's become part of my life now, I don't have to even think about doing it anymore, I just go get it done.

I don't look at the my waffling around time as a waste, I learned so much about the do's and don'ts plus realizing how serious to take my diet. I still struggle with the diet, achieving the calorie and protein intake can be a challenge. I've been considering taking a mass gainer but I keep feeling like I can get what I need from real food, just similar from the mass gainer.

I also thought about a testosterone booster just to see if that gave me any advantage. I was at a birthday party with my son and was taking to another father who has seen success from a Test booster but he's a way different body type then me.

[ironwill2008]

I've stuck with the Vikings the Barebones full body. It fit my equipment well and being 3 days a week I felt like I'd see my weight go up with more rest time. I plan to stick with this routine for the long run. I have it burned into my brain and it's become part of my life now, I don't have to even think about doing it anymore, I just go get it done.

I don't look at the my waffling around time as a waste, I learned so much about the do's and don'ts plus realizing how serious to take my diet. I still struggle with the diet, achieving the calorie and protein intake can be a challenge. I've been considering taking a mass gainer but I keep feeling like I can get what I need from real food, just similar from the mass gainer.

I also thought about a testosterone booster just to see if that gave me any advantage. I was at a birthday party with my son and was taking to another father who has seen success from a Test booster but he's a way different body type then me.

Stop wasting your money and your time and effort on useless supplements.



One more time, opie:

You need a basic 3-day training program built around Squats, Deadlifts, and Presses, enough real food to produce a 2-3-pound increase in your body weight every month, as much sleep as you can manage, and then some consistency over a long period of time. Anything other than that will do nothing to help you.

[OldFartTom]

You describe good progress on fierce5 dumbbell. I know you are saying why didn't giant muscles suddenly pop out on the second month, but you are saying the weights gone up

This is how it works...

Muscles gain strength over the first few months, maybe first 6 months due to learning how to exercise (call it fancy name like neuromuscular adaption or whatever). Progress is relatively fast. Muscles don't need to grow much as the body happily can adapt as described.

Then because your strength has gone up you are now shifting more work (weight times reps
= "volume") the muscles then start to grow as the neuromuscular bit has been completed so only way body can adapt is making muscles bigger, also the volume is now higher which means more muscle stimulus. This happens in this second phase and is a bit slower than the first adaption

So in summary, stop changing programs because you didn't become Arnold in the second month. It is working.
You need to stick to it. The gains will start appearing at maybe month 6.

If You keep changing programs, you won't get to month 6 of any program and it'll be a disappointing experience.

Stick to the program. What you describe is progress, honestly it is!

[arafeandur]

There's a lot of good advice in here. The main thing I wanted to add is that for your body weight most of your lifts are way too light. I'm sure that they have gone up over time since your original post, but the example workout you provides looked more like a cutting routine to me. Work on the big 3 - squat, deadlift, and bench. Focus on lifting as heavy as you can manage safely and you will see solid results at any age. You should aim to be able to do the big 3 with the same weight as your bodyweight. So if you're 160, work on getting squat, deadlift, and bench all to 160. Then start aiming for 1.15x bodyweight, 1.2x bodyweight, then 1.3x bodyweight, and so on. Progress will be quick, then slow, then quick, and then you will grind and grind for progress like the rest of us.
When you are pushing it hard you will only be able to get 4-6 reps. There just won't be any more in the tank. Yep, it's gonna make you feel wonky for a few mins after. Your central nervous system will take a huge impact, and this will spur growth like you wouldn't believe. You will also start eating like you have a hole in your stomach and sleeping like a bear in winter. Your body will demand the calories so that it can withstand the punishment you're dishing out and be ready for more. It will shut you down for sleep like somebody pressed a power button and shut you off for the night.
This will also spike your testosterone more than any test booster supplement. Stay away from mass gainers for now - they will just make you fat until you get in the groove of lifting enough weight to create the demand that they require. When you are eating and eating and you are still hungry all the time, then you can consider one... but do your research before you buy anything. The original and still cheapest mass gainer is eggs and oats. Hope this helps.

[pasty64]

I'm certainly not lifting my body weight, I hopped on the scale tonight and I'm 159.2lbs.

Here's my lifts for the big 3. These lifts are from the Viking Barebone program. If you aren't familiar with this program there are not set reps, just a total for the set. So for example bench press is 3 sets totalling 24 reps. Could be 8/8/8 or 12/10/8 or the reverse.

I'm benching about 90lbs for 3 sets of 8 reps. At the end of each set I'm close to my limit but could do a couple more if I had to.

I'm deadlifting about 140lbs 2 sets of 10 reps. Feel like I could do more

And squats I'm currently doing 110lbs for 8 sets of 4 reps, I'm usually pretty spent when done this set.

So should I up the weight and down the reps?

[ElrondHubbard]

How often do you increase weight on these lifts? Remember its not the absolute value of the lift that's of primary importance, it's whether you're increasing it over time.

[pasty64]

I try to increase 5lbs every 2 weeks, but on certain lifts it's once a month.

[ElrondHubbard]

I try to increase 5lbs every 2 weeks, but on certain lifts it's once a month.

If you're accomplishing close to that goal, then I'd say you're making excellent progress. Just keep doing what you're doing.

[pasty64]

I've kept with this and managed to start seeing some minor results. But then I came down with a cold that turned into the start of pneumonia. Luckily I caught it in time and got into my doctor for some meds before it got too far. Feeling better now but it's greatly effected my breathing and stamina. I took 2 weeks off and tried some lite lifting this morning and didn't get past the warm up before I lost breathe and started coughing. I feel very sluggish and drained after only some minor physical activity. I've lost about 6lbs, and probably would have lost more but I've relaxed my eating habits allowing more unhealthy foods than normal. I'm going to have to ease myself back into it and maybe start with some minor cardio, any advice on this matter? Should I treat my diet as if I was training eating the high protein and calorie diet or should i cut it back until I can train normally again.

[OldFartTom]

Read the replies, opinions vary but the concensus is

1) do a novice program
2) use a barbell
3) progressive overload ( which you get from following point 1 anyway)
4) Follow a program that is heavier and less reps, they call themselves strength programs but make no mistake they build muscle too
5) either get a rack at home, or join a gym
6) consistently bust your ass for a long time

I think if you can follow the above, then that's the best results you will ever get

[OldFartTom]

I've kept with this and managed to start seeing some minor results. But then I came down with a cold that turned into the start of pneumonia. Luckily I caught it in time and got into my doctor for some meds before it got too far. Feeling better now but it's greatly effected my breathing and stamina. I took 2 weeks off and tried some lite lifting this morning and didn't get past the warm up before I lost breathe and started coughing. I feel very sluggish and drained after only some minor physical activity. I've lost about 6lbs, and probably would have lost more but I've relaxed my eating habits allowing more unhealthy foods than normal. I'm going to have to ease myself back into it and maybe start with some minor cardio, any advice on this matter? Should I treat my diet as if I was training eating the high protein and calorie diet or should i cut it back until I can train normally again.

Get well soon. I've had that too (last year), really short of breath and start coughing and coughing on the second squat. You'll lose a lot of strength short term but you'll get it back don't worry.

I am not saying to go mad eat everything and get fat, but if you are injured or ill, don't maintain a calorie deficit!!! You must eat at least maintenance, preferably a small surplus to get you better. Extending the recovery period is not beneficial

Good luck. Get well soon

[pasty64]

I feel like I'm turning a corner. I took a step back, refocused on diet and proper form. I stuck with Fierce Five for the past 2 months and have seen some results. I also looked back in my workout log and seen I've greatly increased my core lefts. For Example I only started squats at 80 Lbs at 8 reps and now I'm 170lbs at 6 reps. My bench press isn't as huge of a change, it went from 90 lbs at 8 reps to 130 lbs at 6 reps.

My weight hasn't increased hugely but I am adding some pounds and my strength has greatly improved. My weight has gone up and down do to sickness and stress but I've leveled off at 165 lbs and have been able to maintain that with small increases. I've been eating 200g of protein and 280g carbs.

I finally feel like I'm in a good place to start seeing the changes I wanted.

[OldFartTom]

It's bumping an old thread... But this time it's good as it captures the whole story.

Really good to hear that consistency has started to pay off. Keep going (FFS whatever you do, don't change program now )

That's a lot of protein! Maybe too much, but if it's working... (don't fix it). Strength increases precede muscle growth, so this more good news. Your squat has moved from 1/2 bodyweight to now overtaking bodyweight, definitely it's going the right direction.

You deserve some rep'ing for a great turnaround from program flip-flopping to consistency and gain.

[tommydamic68]

I don't disagree with any of that. And that is why I want to pick the right program and see it through. Body Beast was a bit of a waste of time but I learned a lot which was great. I started out with Fierce 5 dumbbell program and didn't stick with that because I was new and unmotivated, flopped around to a few programs and didn't like the schedules, and thats part of the reason why I stopped the Novice program. I'd really like something that I could work out 2 days in a row because Saturday and Sunday's and the best days for me where I'm off and the kids doesn't have to go anywheres. Not working out one of those days feels like such a waste. Once the kids are back in school I'll have to work out in the early evenings and I'll only have about a half hour to 45 minutes realistically so I don't want a supper long routine. I liked Body Beast because the second block was mostly 30 minutes with a warm and the longest was 40 minutes. But being 6 days a week focusing on area at a time wasn't right. I'm going back to Fierce 5 Novice and going to make it work, started it today.

Now about my diet, should I be eating more? Up the protein, carbs and fats?

Your trying to do work arounds and find short cuts using life tasks, kids, work and wives to distract you from what your missing. Its simplicity, don't complicate it.

1. Find a beginners program, fierce 5 is 3 days a week and you can use any days of the week to start it. You will not see "good" results without adding weight with a progressive program. Be patient.
2. Stick to one diet, calorie wise and make small adjustments, 200 calories max up or down. This can takes weeks sometimes to make a difference in your weight. Be patient. (sounds like your taking too much protein, stop wasting money -.08 to 1.0 grams per body weight is fine.
3. All the above must be done consistently for 6 months, don't change anything but small diet adjustments. Do not veer from the program. Watch the mirror for results not the scale.

[ElrondHubbard]

I feel like I'm turning a corner. I took a step back, refocused on diet and proper form. I stuck with Fierce Five for the past 2 months and have seen some results. I also looked back in my workout log and seen I've greatly increased my core lefts. For Example I only started squats at 80 Lbs at 8 reps and now I'm 170lbs at 6 reps. My bench press isn't as huge of a change, it went from 90 lbs at 8 reps to 130 lbs at 6 reps.

My weight hasn't increased hugely but I am adding some pounds and my strength has greatly improved. My weight has gone up and down do to sickness and stress but I've leveled off at 165 lbs and have been able to maintain that with small increases. I've been eating 200g of protein and 280g carbs.

I finally feel like I'm in a good place to start seeing the changes I wanted.

Good to see you're still here and still working it, Patsy. You've already won a big part of the battle simply by not giving up. We like seeing success stories.

Now, get back to work!

[grubman]

Ha! I was able to rep you once again for continuing to fight the good fight.

I hope your taking progress pictures so we can take a look eventually.

[pasty64]

I had pictures but then switched phones and last them in the transfer. I have een taking one every month but it's only been the last 2 that I can see a visible difference.

As far as my protein intake goes I also feel it's high but seems to be working. I only creased it 20 grams but if thats whats making a difference I'll keep doing it.

I've accepted that I to be consistent. At the beginning I was whafflign around from program to program trying to find something that fit my equipment and time. I also felt like I wanted to be training everyday but I've gave up on that and have been sticking it. If I would have listen in the start I would have past this point long ago. I'm more motivated than ever and see the progression is fueling it. I take my time now, no rushing and enjoy the workout. I've asureing all my movements are right. I keep investing in more equipment but in the near future I plan to join a gym. A move closer to our town center is helping this, my wife, kids and I currently live in a rural area and it's not fast to get to the gym but when we move I'll be right next door to a gym, walking distance.

[JonM81x]

Eat, train, rest, repeat. Adding muscle mass takes time and dedication... if your gaining a pound a month, your doing good! Hardest part is the kitchen and finishing a low volume, high intensity routine and not wanting to add to it!

Keep at it!