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  1. #541
    Hanging by a thread mrcarter1990's Avatar
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    Hey man,

    I have got an ongoing back pain since last I would say about 3 months. The pain has been there for years but it hasn't been as severe as it has been over last 3 months. The pain is on right side of the lumbar region.
    The pain goes away if I don't train for a week but it's back on once I start training. Pain is worse after leg day.
    Because of the pain I have stopped dead lifts, Squats and other back exercises like last pulldowns etc.

    I have been to the doctors who has asked me to do a Back X-Ray and Do blood test for my iron, folate etc which I still haven't done yet cause of exams.

    Man you have any suggestions what could be the reason for this?
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  2. #542
    Bad Back Brah tank2003's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mrcarter1990 View Post
    Hey man,

    I have got an ongoing back pain since last I would say about 3 months. The pain has been there for years but it hasn't been as severe as it has been over last 3 months. The pain is on right side of the lumbar region.
    The pain goes away if I don't train for a week but it's back on once I start training. Pain is worse after leg day.
    Because of the pain I have stopped dead lifts, Squats and other back exercises like last pulldowns etc.

    I have been to the doctors who has asked me to do a Back X-Ray and Do blood test for my iron, folate etc which I still haven't done yet cause of exams.

    Man you have any suggestions what could be the reason for this?
    Been training last 7 years
    How strong is your core? 80% of all low back pain is caused by injuries because of weak core muscles:
    *Abdominus Rectus (abs), internal/External obliques, erector spinae (all the low back muscles. there is quite a few that are small and known under a few different names) and the transversus (gives you the adonis V taper above your pelvis.

    When the core is weak, other muscles have to pick up the slack. The #1 motion that results in A snap city visit, is unsupported abdominal flexion while trying to hoist a heavy object (bent over to pick something up and lifting with your back and not the legs). When you injure yourself, you often pinch a nerve in the low back, which causes sciatica and that often goes all the way down to your feet. Or the other is a disc herniation at L4 or L5. When your core is very strong, it holds the joints much tighter and keeps them stable so the joints dont translate too much or in the wrong direction. And we all know that the upper body should be like a pyramid (sort of. But where the base is hella big). Your stability and power generation comes from your core. You dont want a huge upper body and a flimsy core

    well, since i dont know EXACTLY what the issue is, i'm weary of advice so i'll just stay basic. Probably the best thing you can do is:
    1. Stretch often to reduce tension. The Low back, glutes, hams, cavles and tendons on the plantar surface of your feet are all in the same kinetic chain (The same set of nerves innervate them all and they work together to walk, jog, run and stay upright). When one muscle is injured, the others have to pick up the slack.
    -EX: Say you have a calf injury and its very painful to walk when your ankle everts or is at a certain position. You alter how you walk to lessen the pain, but often times, you will feel the burn in your feet because you are having to compensate by walking differently

    When you stretch, start from the ground and work your way up.
    1. Roll a tennis ball (or something similar. soup cans work. I wet the tennis balls and freeze them so the ice helps soothe) under your feet for a few minutes first. This is to help relax the tendons
    2. Move onto the calves. I prefer to go to a wall or something solid and point my heels with pressure from the wall. (i wait to do the fingers to the toes for later)
    3. Hams next. Here, i do a few lunges to get a little bit of blood going, then sit, point my heels and use a towel to pick my legs up and stretch. (I also hit the groin muscles here too)
    4. Glute stretch is up next. Hard to explain so here is the pic. Just dont look like a fruit cake like this homo

    5. Low back. I'm not sure what this is called in yoga, but get down in the praying position, then stretch your arms out in front of you and hold. Do this a few times while deep breathing

    Then work your way back down.
    1. Upper back. Get down on all fours and arch your back up as far as you can (but stop if it hurts)
    2. Glutes

    3. Hams. You can pretty much do whatever you feel here but i like this one:

    4. Calves

    5. Not alot to do here other than the tennis ball again.

    After that, I do the knees locked and toes to the ground. On a GOOD day, i can put my palms on the ground. But that isnt really good for the ligaments in your low back

    Regular stretching helps increase circulation (which could aggravate your back), reduces tension and fasciculations and generally helps overall. Stretching can release endorphins (endogenous morphine) and can help with blood pressure, mood, and some pain control.

    As far as exercises, you just need to do anything where you flex at the hips.
    -Back extensions
    -Donkey kicks (hits the glutes more but also helps low back since they are in the same kinetic chain)
    -The prone row is a good one

    -Center and side planks are excellent
    -Glute bridges (aka pelvic raises). Luc1fer is the GOAT with these. THe man could push a 747 with just his crotch.
    -Leg/arm raises (get on all 4s. You are going to raise your right hand in front of you AND your left leg, then back down followed by left arm and right leg then repeat)
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  3. #543
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    Yo man, firstly massive props for this thread, I've spent the entire week reading through when work is quiet and have learned a helluva lot from your answers and the videos you have shared. There's a few questions which I feel may have been answered at points but I don't have the will to go back through all 19 pages and piece the answers together sorry!!

    1) I've recently come back from an upper back injury caused by lack of stretching (ever) so I've stopped being a lazy phuk and started stretching daily. I really want to get my squat up as I'm currently doing 5-6 reps on 100kg max without pain (I'm a 6 foot, 95kg, roughly 22% bodyfat male).

    What would your key advice be for someone wanting to boost squats? I currently do 4x6 twice a week (e.g. Monday & Friday); from your answers I'm thinking I might switch it up so every now and then I do high reps (e.g. 4x15)? Or even stick to 6 reps but do 6-7 sets?

    And in terms of other exercises, I do ham curls, lunges and leg press (ISO) and started this week doing your suggested superset at the end of jump squats into front squares (dumbells); is there anything that can really help boost squats on top of that or just stick at it?

    I've got a few more Qs but will just leave this one for now... it's not a great question but any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
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  4. #544
    Hanging by a thread mrcarter1990's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by tank2003 View Post
    How strong is your core? 80% of all low back pain is caused by injuries because of weak core muscles:
    *Abdominus Rectus (abs), internal/External obliques, erector spinae (all the low back muscles. there is quite a few that are small and known under a few different names) and the transversus (gives you the adonis V taper above your pelvis.

    When the core is weak, other muscles have to pick up the slack. The #1 motion that results in A snap city visit, is unsupported abdominal flexion while trying to hoist a heavy object (bent over to pick something up and lifting with your back and not the legs). When you injure yourself, you often pinch a nerve in the low back, which causes sciatica and that often goes all the way down to your feet. Or the other is a disc herniation at L4 or L5. When your core is very strong, it holds the joints much tighter and keeps them stable so the joints dont translate too much or in the wrong direction. And we all know that the upper body should be like a pyramid (sort of. But where the base is hella big). Your stability and power generation comes from your core. You dont want a huge upper body and a flimsy core

    well, since i dont know EXACTLY what the issue is, i'm weary of advice so i'll just stay basic. Probably the best thing you can do is:
    1. Stretch often to reduce tension. The Low back, glutes, hams, cavles and tendons on the plantar surface of your feet are all in the same kinetic chain (The same set of nerves innervate them all and they work together to walk, jog, run and stay upright). When one muscle is injured, the others have to pick up the slack.
    -EX: Say you have a calf injury and its very painful to walk when your ankle everts or is at a certain position. You alter how you walk to lessen the pain, but often times, you will feel the burn in your feet because you are having to compensate by walking differently

    When you stretch, start from the ground and work your way up.
    1. Roll a tennis ball (or something similar. soup cans work. I wet the tennis balls and freeze them so the ice helps soothe) under your feet for a few minutes first. This is to help relax the tendons
    2. Move onto the calves. I prefer to go to a wall or something solid and point my heels with pressure from the wall. (i wait to do the fingers to the toes for later)
    3. Hams next. Here, i do a few lunges to get a little bit of blood going, then sit, point my heels and use a towel to pick my legs up and stretch. (I also hit the groin muscles here too)
    4. Glute stretch is up next. Hard to explain so here is the pic. Just dont look like a fruit cake like this homo

    5. Low back. I'm not sure what this is called in yoga, but get down in the praying position, then stretch your arms out in front of you and hold. Do this a few times while deep breathing

    Then work your way back down.
    1. Upper back. Get down on all fours and arch your back up as far as you can (but stop if it hurts)
    2. Glutes

    3. Hams. You can pretty much do whatever you feel here but i like this one:

    4. Calves

    5. Not alot to do here other than the tennis ball again.

    After that, I do the knees locked and toes to the ground. On a GOOD day, i can put my palms on the ground. But that isnt really good for the ligaments in your low back

    Regular stretching helps increase circulation (which could aggravate your back), reduces tension and fasciculations and generally helps overall. Stretching can release endorphins (endogenous morphine) and can help with blood pressure, mood, and some pain control.

    As far as exercises, you just need to do anything where you flex at the hips.
    -Back extensions
    -Donkey kicks (hits the glutes more but also helps low back since they are in the same kinetic chain)
    -The prone row is a good one

    -Center and side planks are excellent
    -Glute bridges (aka pelvic raises). Luc1fer is the GOAT with these. THe man could push a 747 with just his crotch.
    -Leg/arm raises (get on all 4s. You are going to raise your right hand in front of you AND your left leg, then back down followed by left arm and right leg then repeat)
    Thanks man. That's some massive chunk of info.
    Never really did any stretching when young. Just started to concentrate on it last year.
    Will follow what you have said.
    Thanks bro.
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  5. #545
    Bad Back Brah tank2003's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RfcSrsBree View Post
    Yo man, firstly massive props for this thread, I've spent the entire week reading through when work is quiet and have learned a helluva lot from your answers and the videos you have shared. There's a few questions which I feel may have been answered at points but I don't have the will to go back through all 19 pages and piece the answers together sorry!!

    1) I've recently come back from an upper back injury caused by lack of stretching (ever) so I've stopped being a lazy phuk and started stretching daily. I really want to get my squat up as I'm currently doing 5-6 reps on 100kg max without pain (I'm a 6 foot, 95kg, roughly 22% bodyfat male).

    What would your key advice be for someone wanting to boost squats? I currently do 4x6 twice a week (e.g. Monday & Friday); from your answers I'm thinking I might switch it up so every now and then I do high reps (e.g. 4x15)? Or even stick to 6 reps but do 6-7 sets?

    And in terms of other exercises, I do ham curls, lunges and leg press (ISO) and started this week doing your suggested superset at the end of jump squats into front squares (dumbells); is there anything that can really help boost squats on top of that or just stick at it?

    I've got a few more Qs but will just leave this one for now... it's not a great question but any advice would be appreciated. Thanks!
    I greatly appriciate the praise. I love spreading the knowledge and its totally awesome when you guys actually WANT to learn and ask questions

    back injuries fukkin blow man. Espcially in the low back. they never seem to fully heal. One thing i've hammered in throughout this thread is the shock principle (and i'll explain in a m in). When you lift weights, just by SEEING the weights you are about to hoist, your brain remembers and keeps track of it so it pretty much knows exactly how many motor units need to be recruited to no kill yourself. (I mentioned once or twice a study where a powerlifter was blindfolded and had ears plugged so he could neither see the weights, nor hear them being racked up. He did 1RMs and set personal records EASILY and that can be attributed to the brain, more or less, recruiting waayyyyyyyyyy more units than needed just to be sure that you are able to over come the threat, which is the weights in this case). When you enact the shock priniciple, you are drastically changing up modes of exercise, whether its, moving from barbells to DBs, super sets, moving to cables, HIIT style, pause reps ect. Doing the same structure day in and day out tends to "lull" the body some, so by mixing up the demands, you are stimulating the CNS to wake the fuk up and tear some muscles so they are repaired bigger, faster and stronger.

    Its my firm belief that if you do this for squat, then your max will jump. It kind of sucks because we all want to ego lift and throw up some heavy ass weight, which is where the 5X5 type workouts garner. You can easily mix up squats with other demanding leg exercises like:
    -Hack Squat
    -Dead lifts (where you CONTROL the weight up and down rather than let gravity pull it down and you pick the bar back up when it bounces some. You can also replace the 45s with 25s. When you do this, your ROM is greatly increased because you are having to squat down farther to touch the weights to the ground. When you go back to loading 45s, it will feel like you are only doing half reps
    -Leg press (I personally favor unilateral (one leg at a time) presses rather than bilateral. I can get a more full ROM this way)
    -Lunges (walking, static, side, jumping are great alternatives)
    -Romanian Dead lift
    -Sumo dead lift (using 25s rather than 45s here would be an EXCELLENT substitution because with sumop DLs, you dont have to move the weight as far as you would with your typical DLs)

    Another thing to keep in mind is addressing all the synergistic muscles that are used in a squat. Which is everything from your middle back to the ground. So trainging your low back, glutes, hams and quads are very beneficial. I would hit all your compound lifts first, then move on to ISO exercises. Leg extensions arent very good for your knees because it REALLY stressed the ACL, but its a very effective exercise despite that. So i only do it once or twice a month. I also adjust the ROM of the machine to where the beginning of the lift has my knees at 45 degrees (if you use a full ROM, your feet will be under your butt, which is BAAAAD news for your knees). I make sure to go slow and controlled the entire time. Sometimes i'll even hold the weight up for 10 sec or so when i'm feeling good. Small adjustments like these are like unsung heroes.

    One EXCELLENT exercise is Sprints. If you throw in sprints regularly, you'll be a quadzilla in 6 months or less. But sprints suck mod nuts. They are very tiring and you need to keep a strict structure to get the max benefits. Ex: Jog or walk for 2 min, then sprint for 1 and restart. this is HIIT training and its hella effective b ut you have to FORCE yourself to maintain the strict 1:2 ratio so your heart rate doesnt fall. Heart rate declinations will impede your pump and the pump is the sweet spot where you want to be in as long as possible

    Originally Posted by mrcarter1990 View Post
    Thanks man. That's some massive chunk of info.
    Never really did any stretching when young. Just started to concentrate on it last year.
    Will follow what you have said.
    Thanks bro.
    No problem brother. Keep us posted. Your log could help another miscer that is plateauing and is clueless on how to proceed
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  6. #546
    Registered User RfcSrsBree's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by tank2003 View Post
    I greatly appriciate the praise. I love spreading the knowledge and its totally awesome when you guys actually WANT to learn and ask questions
    Thanks mate this was the kinda answer I was hoping to get (the whole thing not just what I've quoted!), speaks volumes about someone's character when they are willing to put the time and effort into a thread like this. Very insightful/helpful, I think my biggest flaw in the gym over the past few years (other than not stretching anywhere near enough) would be that I haven't shocked the body enough... would switch the routine up every now and then but will make an effort to really smash it around for a bit.

    I've also really had my eye on starting to HIIT as per your comments, my only qualm is that I would need to be doing it on treadmills as my shins can't deal with paths/roads... I am planning on looking at improving that but short term definitely treadmill work which can be a pain to manually go from jog->sprint->jog speed but hey that's a first world problem.

    Deadlifts are one that do scare me a little, I had been doing around 110kg for 3x8 before it eventually popped my upper back (due to it being unstretched in forever), I feel like my form is OK but I do tend to end up bending the back slightly at the lowest points (maybe due to tight hammies?) - no specific question on this as I have read earlier in the thread regarding deadlifts but yeah.

    Will be back with more questions tomorrow as in and out today, cheers again.
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  7. #547
    Bad Back Brah tank2003's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by RfcSrsBree View Post
    Thanks mate this was the kinda answer I was hoping to get (the whole thing not just what I've quoted!), speaks volumes about someone's character when they are willing to put the time and effort into a thread like this. Very insightful/helpful, I think my biggest flaw in the gym over the past few years (other than not stretching anywhere near enough) would be that I haven't shocked the body enough... would switch the routine up every now and then but will make an effort to really smash it around for a bit.

    I've also really had my eye on starting to HIIT as per your comments, my only qualm is that I would need to be doing it on treadmills as my shins can't deal with paths/roads... I am planning on looking at improving that but short term definitely treadmill work which can be a pain to manually go from jog->sprint->jog speed but hey that's a first world problem.

    Deadlifts are one that do scare me a little, I had been doing around 110kg for 3x8 before it eventually popped my upper back (due to it being unstretched in forever), I feel like my form is OK but I do tend to end up bending the back slightly at the lowest points (maybe due to tight hammies?) - no specific question on this as I have read earlier in the thread regarding deadlifts but yeah.

    Will be back with more questions tomorrow as in and out today, cheers again.
    Running is a mixed bag of pro's and con's. It is VERY tough on your joints because most people dont know how to properly run. The difference between walking and running is when you run, there is a flight phase where you are completly off the ground. The phases of running are like this:
    1. Heel strike
    2. Mid foot (where your toes AND the ball of your foot are both ont he ground. NOT when your entire foot is on the ground.)
    3. Toe off

    When i say people dont know how to run, i mean that when most of us run, we heels trike too much. When you do this, your lower body has to absorb around 3x your body weight. That is a LOT of energy that travels upward through your posterior chain and makes the joints translate too much and leads to soreness and even arthritis, shin splints, knee tracking problems, sore ass hips and even lowback pain.

    Look at it like this. Stand up, point your toes up and jump so you land on your heels. Not only is there a complete lack opf shock absorption, but ALL the energy from you coming down meeting the ground is focused in one spot. Now imagine doing that over and over and over when you run/jog.

    Now contrary to that, landing on your toes has some detrimental effects. If you land on your toes (and not your mid foot), then you are basically just doing calve raises over and over and over. SO logically, the best place to land is on your mid foot. It takes some geting use to because unless you are a natural runner/sprinter, it is totaly foreign. You may need to check out some youtube videos on this because my fat ass will NEVER be able to do that (especially now that my back is fukked). But there is one thing that ties the proper running form together and that is leaning forward a bit. It helps keep your center of gravity int he proper place for mid stance running. If you watch sprinters, this is exactly what they do.

    If running is really hard on you, then the treadmill is a great way to try and combat that. Also grass is a good substitue. If you have a specific issue with your knees or back, then proceed with caution. But if it just makes you sore, then with some practice and building up, you can probably become a solid runner. Literally what i have do ne in the past when i started running again was i'd run around the block, then curse myself out for an hour for being so fat and out of shape. The next night, i'll do 2 blocks. Then 3 and 4, and somewhere around here, ive always went from a handful of blocks to a few miles. At my best, I would jog for around an hour or so and i always felt amazing. I use to work at a restauraunt and so we typically got off late, especially me since i was a bartender. Anyway, i'd get off around 11 or so and my buddy would meet me, and we'd go running. Oddly enough, i loved running in the cold ass weather the most. My point is, anyone can be come a good runner (assuming they dont have serious issues). I'm 6'2 and 250+ lbs and I could run a sub 7 min mile and then go bench over 300 lbs because I pushed myself farther and farther.

    If you are weary about deadlifts, then do what is comfortable. but like I mentioned with running, i'd suggest starting slow and working up. You never know if you might be a natural to some lifts when you push yourself while proceeding with caution. I havenbt dealifted since before 2012 when i fukke dmy back up, so i'm constantly looking for a good substitute but it seems DL might be one of a kind unless you do DB DLs.
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    5'5" 140lbs. azn Sil3nt1's Avatar
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    sent you a pm tank
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    Hanging by a thread mrcarter1990's Avatar
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    Hey Tank,

    One more question in regards to my ongoing back pain (likely herniated disc).

    What exercises should I absolutely avoid? Been reading a lot online and it goes from excluding pretty much everything and just do cardio to only excluding deadlifts and legs and continue with the rest?

    If you could please specifically list what to part of the body to continue as normal and what part to avoid competely please?

    Btw I finally had my X Ray today. Likely will have an update this Friday.
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    Bad Back Brah tank2003's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mrcarter1990 View Post
    Hey Tank,

    One more question in regards to my ongoing back pain (likely herniated disc).

    What exercises should I absolutely avoid? Been reading a lot online and it goes from excluding pretty much everything and just do cardio to only excluding deadlifts and legs and continue with the rest?

    If you could please specifically list what to part of the body to continue as normal and what part to avoid competely please?

    Btw I finally had my X Ray today. Likely will have an update this Friday.
    Until you know EXACTLY wjay the issue is, i'd put the brakes on squats and dead lifts for now. One of the most liekly scenarios that end up in a disc issue, is lifitng with back and not the legs, and this is hella easy with squats
    and deads because you have the weight pulling you forward. I keep the weight really low on those so i KNOW i can keep strict form. To help try and lessen the situation, I do planks and back extensions. This will directly engage the low back muscles, but its important to take care to not over do it
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    5'5" 140lbs. azn Sil3nt1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mrcarter1990 View Post
    Hey man,

    I have got an ongoing back pain since last I would say about 3 months. The pain has been there for years but it hasn't been as severe as it has been over last 3 months. The pain is on right side of the lumbar region.
    The pain goes away if I don't train for a week but it's back on once I start training. Pain is worse after leg day.
    Because of the pain I have stopped dead lifts, Squats and other back exercises like last pulldowns etc.

    I have been to the doctors who has asked me to do a Back X-Ray and Do blood test for my iron, folate etc which I still haven't done yet cause of exams.

    Man you have any suggestions what could be the reason for this?
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    Supreme Master Guardian sumusikoo's Avatar
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    Form re check.

    This was with a new heavier weight to see if I can keep form decent as I move up.

    I realize hips are still shooting up slightly, but far less than it was before.




    Lower back still seems to be a slight bit arched but I think that's just because of the shirt I'm using, I seriously tried to remember to keep the back straight before even lifting the weight and it still seemed a bit arched in the lower back, will try filming without a shirt and compare results.
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    Any idea why my hip flexors hurt when I squat down? I also get the a sore lower back and hip flexor pain when I use the leg extension machine. Any guidance would be appreciated man!
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