Can we help obese lose more fat by treating them as Insulin Resistant ?

[Finnegan Bell]

Insulin resistance and pre-diabetes are mostly associated with obesity.

So why don't we put obese on lower carbs diet and Berberine supplement ?

Instead of telling the obese that all you need are "a Multi and Fish oil" , we tell them all you need are a Multi ,Fish Oil and Berberine ?

If you don't know , Berberine works similar to drug Metmorfin at lowering Insulin Resistance..

[gbullock32]

Or they can go on a calorie deficit instead of trying to rely on a pill... that works 100% of the time (mostly).

[Finnegan Bell]

Or they can go on a calorie deficit instead of trying to rely on a pill... that works 100% of the time (mostly).

Nothing wrong in adding a good supplement , as long as you don't expect it to be the main solution and ignore everything else..

And what kind of caloric deficit ? Insulin resistant folks respond better to lower carbs diets.. That's my question , can we assume obese people that they have a degree of insulin resistance ?

[gbullock32]

Nothing wrong in adding a good supplement , as long as you don't expect it to be the main solution and ignore everything else..

And what kind of caloric deficit ? Insulin resistant folks respond better to lower carbs diets.. That's my question , can we assume obese people that they have a degree of insulin resistance ?

Easier and more proven to assume they eat to much and move too little. No need to throw pharmaceuticals at them without need.

[Finnegan Bell]

Easier and more proven to assume they eat to much and move too little. No need to throw pharmaceuticals at them without need.

They need every extra help. That's why there are millions of $ spent at researching obesity medicines and supplements . Obesity is a complex disease and requires more than "Diet and exercise" to be treated effectively.

[gbullock32]

They need every extra help. That's why there are millions of $ spent at researching obesity medicines and supplements . Obesity is a complex disease and requires more than "Diet and exercise" to be treated effectively.

Depends; for some it can be a medical issue, but for most... they just eat too much.

[Finnegan Bell]

Depends; for some it can be a medical issue, but for most... they just eat too much.

Yes eating much is the main reason for obesity. No doubt about that. But surprisingly eating less/moving more is not enough as a solution.. You treat obesity with diet , exercise , behavioural change ,environmental control and drugs/supps have always been a good aid. Why stick to only one or two solutions when you can add 10 others ?

[gbullock32]

Yes eating much is the main reason for obesity. No doubt about that. But surprisingly eating less/moving more is not enough as a solution.. You treat obesity with diet , exercise , behavioural change ,environmental control and drugs/supps have always been a good aid. Why stick to only one or two solutions when you can add 10 others ?

Because adding 'drugs/supps' for most is not needed and proper nutrition and exercise is a healthier way with far less potential side effects.

[juggernaut74ia]

Yes eating much is the main reason for obesity. No doubt about that. But surprisingly eating less/moving more is not enough as a solution.. You treat obesity with diet , exercise , behavioural change ,environmental control and drugs/supps have always been a good aid. Why stick to only one or two solutions when you can add 10 others ?

Do you by chance have a financial stake in this product?

[Finnegan Bell]

Because adding 'drugs/supps' for most is not needed and proper nutrition and exercise is a healthier way with far less potential side effects.

You know the concept of "Aggregation of Marginal Gains" ? Instead of seeking the one big solution (Diet/exercise) . You add tens of small solutions that each has 1% gain . That's how you succeed at anything , including winning Tour De France and Olympic gold medals.

http://jamesclear.com/marginal-gains

[gbullock32]

You know the concept of "Aggregation of Marginal Gains" ? Instead of seeking the one big solution (Diet/exercise) . You add tens of small solutions that each has 1% gain . That's how you succeed at anything , including winning Tour De France and Olympic gold medals.

http://jamesclear.com/marginal-gains

Ever hear the term 'Majoring in the Minors'? Give people a pill saying it will help, no matter how little, and many will try and rely on it instead of what will make the big differences simply due to it being an easy out.

[Finnegan Bell]

Do you by chance have a financial stake in this product?

Have I mentioned a company name ? You are a funny man...

[gbullock32]

Have I mentioned a company name ? You are a funny man...

'The above post is a medical advice. It is intended to diagnose, treat, cure, and try to prevent any health problem.
No need to consult your physician or qualified health
professional on any matters regarding your health.'

Might be the red flag...

[Finnegan Bell]

'The above post is a medical advice. It is intended to diagnose, treat, cure, and try to prevent any health problem.
No need to consult your physician or qualified health
professional on any matters regarding your health.'

Might be the red flag...

You need a pill to identify sarcasm

[gbullock32]

You need a pill to identify sarcasm

And I bet you have one to sell.

[Finnegan Bell]

And I bet you have one to sell.

You lose the bet , I don't sell supps. I coach obese people for a living.

[Finnegan Bell]

And here is a new information for some people here.. Berberine is a herb name , not a "product" name.

[Mrpb]

Insulin resistance and pre-diabetes are mostly associated with obesity.

So why don't we put obese on lower carbs diet and Berberine supplement ?

Low carb diets aren't necessarily better than high carb diets for the obese.

For example:
http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/...131(15)00350-2
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/ea...33561.abstract

The most important thing is that they choose a diet they can stick to.

[Rabbitjb]

Insulin resistance and pre-diabetes are mostly associated with obesity.

So why don't we put obese on lower carbs diet and Berberine supplement ?

Instead of telling the obese that all you need are "a Multi and Fish oil" , we tell them all you need are a Multi ,Fish Oil and Berberine ?

If you don't know , Berberine works similar to drug Metmorfin at lowering Insulin Resistance..

No

Because it's another excuse driven, put the onus outside the individual, response.

People are successful when they take charge, in the absence of medical conditions there is no need to monitor carbs. Even with there is no need to go "low carb" per se, just monitor carb consumption to your limits within stated time periods

Low carb diets are a matter of personal choice. Does it suit you, can you adhere for life? Then go for it.

There is no magic inherent in following low carb to hit your calorie defecit, it is no better (beyond initial water weight manipulation) than not low carbing.

I know nothing of berberine. Got any studies to share?

I am loathe to throw any "supplement" at people who haven't taken charge of their lives and committed to change. I believe it has a tendency, even if it has minor effect, to reinforce the "it's out of my control, I need help". It reinforces the victim in my own life mentality

[Finnegan Bell]

Low carb diets aren't necessarily better than high carb diets for the obese.

For example:
http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/...131(15)00350-2
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/ea...33561.abstract

The most important thing is that they choose a diet they can stick to.

Some research found that Low carb diets work better for IR people
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15897479

And there is a big review on the exact subject

http://www.encognitive.com/files/Die...0Secretion.pdf

[Finnegan Bell]

No

Because it's another excuse driven, put the onus outside the individual, response.

People are successful when they take charge, in the absence of medical conditions there is no need to monitor carbs. Even with their is no need to go "low carb" just monitor carb consumption to your limits within stated time periods

Low carb diets are a matter of personal choice. Does it suit you, can you adhere for life? Then go for it.

There is no magic inherent in following low carb to hit your calorie defecit, it is no better (beyond initial water weight manipulation) than not low carbing.

I know nothing of berberine. Got any studies to share?

I am loathe to throw any "supplement" at people who haven't taken charge of their lives and committed to change. I believe it has a tendency, even if it has minor effect, to reinforce the "it's out of my control, I need help". It reinforces the victim in my own life mentality

https://examine.com/supplements/berberine/

[Mrpb]

Some research found that Low carb diets work better for IR people

True but other studies didn't.

However, you suggested they work better for obese.

Those 2 studies I linked to, both metabolic ward studies, showed fat restriction actually worked a little better than carb restriction for the obese.

So, can we help obese lose more fat by treating them as Insulin Resistant ?

Answer: No, not necessarily.

[Finnegan Bell]

Now, in general, when obesity develops, so does insulin resistance; I’d note that this isn’t a guarantee; you can find skinny people who are highly insulin resistant and overweight individuals with good insulin sensitivity. In any case, recent work has started to examine different dietary approaches in terms of their carbohydrate content relative to the level of insulin resistance. In one small pilot study, dieters were categorized as either insulin sensitive or insulin resistant and then either put on a high or low-carbohydrate diet. So there were four groups.

1. Insulin sensitive: high carbs

2. Insulin sensitive: low carbs

3. Insulin resistant: high carbs

4. Insulin resistant: low carbs

And while all groups lost weight (calories were the same), the insulin sensitive group did better with high carbs and the insulin resistant group did better with low-carbs. This is right in line with previous empirical observations.

By Lyle Mcdonald's

https://bodyimprovements.wordpress.c...carbohydrates/

[Finnegan Bell]

True but other studies didn't.

However, you suggested they work better for obese.

Those 2 studies I linked to, both metabolic ward studies, showed fat restriction actually worked a little better than carb restriction for the obese.

So, can we help obese lose more fat by treating them as Insulin Resistant ?

Answer: No, not necessarily.

Yes you are right , thx for help.

[Mrpb]

If your clients prefer a low carb diet I would put them on that. But if they prefer a higher carb, lower fat diet I would put them on that.

Dietary adherence trumps all the other small effects.

If they lose weight and exercise, their insulin sensitivity will generally improve.

[Rabbitjb]

https://examine.com/supplements/berberine/

Ok only had time to scan it. Seems like it is effective

So you are proposing prescribing a "medicine" designed to reduce blood glucose in people with no insulin issues? Why would that be helpful? Medicating healthy people?

Nothing is without side effects: I've noted gastrointestinal and cardiac risks

It inhibits hypertrophy so even more need for progressive resistance

[Mrpb]

"the limited data available suggest that the higher fat content of typical low-carbohydrate diets may exacerbate insulin resistance in the long term"

"Current evidence supports the inclusion of whole grains, fruits and vegetables, and lean sources of animal proteins including low-fat dairy products in dietary therapies for insulin resistance."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15650564

[desslok]

I don't see how that would help the psychological issues that cause people to eat too much, binge, hide food, and eat in secret,etc. you

[Finnegan Bell]

I don't see how that would help the psychological issues that cause people to eat too much, binge, hide food, and eat in secret,etc. you

Metmorfin/Berberine can help Insulin resistant people decrease cravings by controlling blood sugar.. As I mentioned many times , it not THE SOLUTION , just an additional aid..

[Heisman2]

I feel if someone has obesity insulin resistance to the point that berberine or the drug you mentioned (we're not allowed to name drugs) would be helpful then they should see a doctor. The drug itself in the US is on the $4 list so it is cheap. Chances are in addition to the obesity and insulin resistance they also have hypertension and possibly renal damage if they have type 2 diabetes; in those instances they should be on additional medication(s) as well.

That said, there are some who think everybody should be on that drug; it's pretty harmless other than diarrhea (affects 20% signifiacntly but can be decreased substantially if you start with a low dose and increase slowly) and a risk of lactic acidosis/acute kidney injury under certain (rare) circumstances.