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  1. #661
    Registered User LioRiX's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    How does it change? MPS rates are higher in the trained state vs. the rested state.
    Thanks !

    Let me ask you this, what do YOU think the muscle full effect is?
    From my understanding, it's when the muscles have Amino Acids, despite MPS might be low. So they say the "muscle is full" so you won't benefit from eating protein while this effect is "on".
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    Originally Posted by LioRiX View Post
    From my understanding, it's when the muscles have Amino Acids, despite MPS might be low. So they say the "muscle is full" so you won't benefit from eating protein while this effect is "on".
    There's no good evidence supporting this.
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  3. #663
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    Assuming I've always consumed not so much sodium, aside from the one naturally present in food or added in packaged food, there is any benefit in increasing it while on an high carb lean bulk?

    I'm talking about 20-30 gr. of additional salt daily, added to pasta, salad, vegetables mainly


    And assuming I want to hit a 500 calorie surplus (20% for me) is it OK to eat 2800 a day, instead of 3000, then eat 2000 calories at a pizza dinner, calculating that spreading on a weekly basis?
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  4. #664
    pay the iron price SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    The muscle full effect just means that MPS stops responding to additional protein intake. That it not to say that eating more protein than you need to produce a MPS effect will be wasted, I think it could be pooled for use down the line - up to a point (since the pool size for aminos is not very large).
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  5. #665
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    Thank you guys.
    In practical terms when one doesn't like food preparation, but rathers spontaneous meals - 3 to 5 hours gap in between them is that optimal range this study was suggesting?
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  6. #666
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    Originally Posted by LioRiX View Post
    Thank you guys.
    In practical terms when one doesn't like food preparation, but rathers spontaneous meals - 3 to 5 hours gap in between them is that optimal range this study was suggesting?
    I'm 99% sure you will not notice any difference if you extend the range from 3-5 hours to 2-6 hours. You have this habit it seems of always caring about things that are pretty much insignificant.

    I assume you've seen recommendations to gain say 2 pounds per month the first year of training, 1 pound per month the second year, and 0.5 pounds per month after that (or something similar to this). Assuming everything is done absolutely perfectly then following this scheme you may reach your genetic potential in like 5 years. Now what if you don't do things optimally and instead only get say 90% of the gains you would get otherwise? Well, in that case now instead of taking 5 years to get your genetic potential it will take 5.5 years. This is not a significant difference.

    Think about it another way. You can try to get every detail completely correct to do your best to get that extra 5-10% of gains, but then what happens if you get injured, or life goals change, or you get a new job that prevents you from sleeping optimally? All of these will have a MUCH bigger impact than getting the timing of meals correct. Stop stressing about the tiny details that don't matter, the extra stress and cortisol will quite possibly hurt your health and gains more in the long run than trying to optimize everything will benefit them; you're quite possibly hurting your progress by trying to optimize everything.

    Originally Posted by KalElLoco
    I'm talking about 20-30 gr. of additional salt daily, added to pasta, salad, vegetables mainly
    20-30 grams of salt comes out to roughly 7.5-11.5 grams of sodium, which can potentially have some negative health effects if consumed chronically unless you are losing a good amount in sweat throughout the day.
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  7. #667
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    Originally Posted by Heisman2 View Post
    I'm 99% sure you will not notice any difference if you extend the range from 3-5 hours to 2-6 hours. You have this habit it seems of always caring about things that are pretty much insignificant.

    I assume you've seen recommendations to gain say 2 pounds per month the first year of training, 1 pound per month the second year, and 0.5 pounds per month after that (or something similar to this). Assuming everything is done absolutely perfectly then following this scheme you may reach your genetic potential in like 5 years. Now what if you don't do things optimally and instead only get say 90% of the gains you would get otherwise? Well, in that case now instead of taking 5 years to get your genetic potential it will take 5.5 years. This is not a significant difference.

    Think about it another way. You can try to get every detail completely correct to do your best to get that extra 5-10% of gains, but then what happens if you get injured, or life goals change, or you get a new job that prevents you from sleeping optimally? All of these will have a MUCH bigger impact than getting the timing of meals correct. Stop stressing about the tiny details that don't matter, the extra stress and cortisol will quite possibly hurt your health and gains more in the long run than trying to optimize everything will benefit them; you're quite possibly hurting your progress by trying to optimize everything.
    .
    Thanks, and about what you say - you're undoubtedly right. The point is, no matter what I will NEVER be able to do everything right 100% of the time. This is why my belief is to understand the perfect, aim for it and fall somewhere close to it.
    In my perception if I aimed the 80% I'd never actually reach the 80%.
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  8. #668
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    Originally Posted by LioRiX View Post
    Thanks, and about what you say - you're undoubtedly right. The point is, no matter what I will NEVER be able to do everything right 100% of the time. This is why my belief is to understand the perfect, aim for it and fall somewhere close to it.
    In my perception if I aimed the 80% I'd never actually reach the 80%.
    If you eat the correct amount of calories each day, hit your protein and fat minimums, train hard and intelligently on good routine, and sleep enough each night, you are easily well past 80%.
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  9. #669
    The Incredible Bulk BennoMac's Avatar
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    This is indeed my new mind set, i was so obsessed with body fat % and such that i lost sight that i was losing Muscle mass and strength being on such a low Calorie diet and IF so my MPS was not good. i adjusted and last night hit a PR on deadlift.
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  10. #670
    Common sense/moderation. gbullock32's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LioRiX View Post
    Thanks, and about what you say - you're undoubtedly right. The point is, no matter what I will NEVER be able to do everything right 100% of the time. This is why my belief is to understand the perfect, aim for it and fall somewhere close to it.
    In my perception if I aimed the 80% I'd never actually reach the 80%.
    When trying to be optimal interferes with your life, it is no longer optimal; training and nutrition should improve your life, not dominate it.
    Short cuts to success are often paved with lies.
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  11. #671
    The Incredible Bulk BennoMac's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gbullock32 View Post
    When trying to be optimal interferes with your life, it is no longer optimal; training and nutrition should improve your life, not dominate it.
    100% agree here.
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  12. #672
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    Regarding the effects of alcohol on training, is there a "preferred" way to consume it? For example is it better to drink a beer on an off day compared to a few hours after training? Does it matter if it's spread out or concentrated ( for example drinking 1 beer a day for 3 days as opposed to 3 beers during 1 day )
    Thanks in advance!
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  13. #673
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    Originally Posted by LioRiX View Post
    but about that "Muscle Full Effect" - do they say it's a myth, or do they suggest it's "true"?
    The muscle full effect is the observation that amino acids stimulate MPS for a short period, after which there is a refractory period where the muscle does not respond to amino acids. More specifically, after protein intake, there is an lag period of approximately 45-90 min before MPS goes up and peaks between 90-120 minutes, after which MPS returns rapidly to baseline even if amino acid levels are still elevated (Bohe, 2001)(Atherthon, 2010).

    The muscle full effect has given birth to a theory on how to optimize protein intake throughout the day in the online fitness community. It suggests that after amino acids levels have been elevated, you should let them drop down back to fasting levels to sensitize the muscle to amino acids again. Subsequently, protein intake will stimulate MPS again.

    There is no evidence to support this theory.
    Continues: http://www.nutritiontactics.com/meas...le_full_effect
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  14. #674
    Registered User LioRiX's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Heisman2 View Post
    If you eat the correct amount of calories each day, hit your protein and fat minimums, train hard and intelligently on good routine, and sleep enough each night, you are easily well past 80%.
    That's actually very good to know, thanks!

    Originally Posted by gbullock32 View Post
    When trying to be optimal interferes with your life, it is no longer optimal; training and nutrition should improve your life, not dominate it.
    No doubt about that - knowing meal timing ideals wouldn't have affect my life at all. I'd aim for the perfect timing but accept the fact I won't actually do it all the time, I'll be close to it though.

    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    Thanks. I understand it's a myth now, but I really wasn't sure before because they also added:
    However, the relevance of the muscle full effect can be questioned in athletes
    and
    It appears that the muscle full effect is not present in acute post-exercise conditions. It’s interesting to note that resistance exercise can increase the sensitivity of the muscle to protein for at least 24 h (Burd, 2011).

    The muscle full effect is an interesting phenomenon, but we don’t understand it well enough to let it influence our protein intake recommendations
    You don't have to answer, I got you, thanks.
    Last edited by LioRiX; 09-19-2017 at 01:02 AM.
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    Does smoking reduce appetite? Have a few friends who can not seem to gain weight and both smoke a lot. Also, I've heard this few times, but I don't know if it is true?
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    What happens when I have a 70% cal deficit but still lift hard & consume 0.8g of protein as well as 0.42g of fat per lbs of bw?
    Do I lose more fat? Or do I lose a bit of muscle & fat?
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    Originally Posted by Zenoboy View Post
    What happens when I have a 70% cal deficit but still lift hard & consume 0.8g of protein as well as 0.42g of fat per lbs of bw?
    Do I lose more fat? Or do I lose a bit of muscle & fat?
    Recommended weight loss is up to 1% per week. Faster than that increases the risk for muscle loss.
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    What affect does drinking cold smoothies have on your health? Does the coldness have any negative consequences if done daily?
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    Have there been any studies that show training the same muscle every day is detrimental?
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    Originally Posted by R5GT View Post
    Have there been any studies that show training the same muscle every day is detrimental?
    There's a good amount of research summarized here which you might find useful: http://sci-fit.net/2017/scientific-r...ning_frequency

    Conclusions for frequency (strength and hypertrophy)

    If we look at all the evidence as a whole with all of its limitations, we can conclude that higher frequency training (i.e. 2-3x per muscle group per week) might be better than 1x per week. Nonetheless, frequency shouldn’t be an unchangeable or permanent factor. It’s highly likely that long-term high frequency training (i.e. 3x-7x per muscle group per week) can lead to overreaching, injury, and fatigue. Thus, it might be a good idea to use moderate frequencies (i.e. 1-3x) as a foundation for your program, with periods of intensified training (i.e. 3-6x). There are many ways to play around with this, and due to practical considerations (i.e. time, interest), genetics, and inter-individual differences, there’s no answer that will fit everyone. It should be said that substantial gains can be made with low frequency training, and the differences when volume is matched, are not huge.
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    Originally Posted by R5GT View Post
    Have there been any studies that show training the same muscle every day is detrimental?
    Iirc there's a study where they squatted every day. It can be beneficial if done right. The risk of doing too much is larger of course.

    Alberto Nunez posted a video on youtube about his setup, something like monday flat bench 3 sets, tuesday incline 3 sets, wednesday flies 3 sets.
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  22. #682
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    Originally Posted by R5GT View Post
    Have there been any studies that show training the same muscle every day is detrimental?
    Worth baring in mind that this isn't as specific a question as it might sounds.

    Aka, 14 sets of squats done every day at 90%+ 1rm, isn't really comparable to 2 sets a day, with varying loads. But they both meet the criteria you specify.

    Menno is a big proponent of higher training frequency, especially in those who are more advanced, who are able to recover quicker; This is another important consideration.

    I think logically there is a balance to be set between "total weekly volume", volume per session, intensity per session, recovery time, etc etc. "More volume" seems to be the word on everyones lips lately, but crucially "more worthwhile volume". For eg, if you have "chest day" on a Monday, and you do 12 sets, how many of those sets were "worthwhile"? Assuming a good routine is being followed, probably the first 2-3 at least, but after that, the usefulness almost certainly drops off. And then how long does it take you to recover and be ready to train again, assuming you're at least intermediate? Almost certainly not the 5-7 days that a lot of people take.
    Last edited by chamelious; 09-21-2017 at 03:46 AM.
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    When cutting, which supplement is better in general/training fasted(IF) for preserving muscle mass?
    Leucine, BCAA or HMB-FA
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    Originally Posted by BradPlitt View Post
    When cutting, which supplement is better in general/training fasted(IF) for preserving muscle mass?
    Leucine, BCAA or HMB-FA
    Training factors, calories and protein will utterly eclipse any kind of weird supplementation.
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    Yea but if all those factors are in place, would any of those supplements be beneficial?
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    Originally Posted by BradPlitt View Post
    Yea but if all those factors are in place, would any of those supplements be beneficial?
    Assuming you get sufficient protein "Leucine" and "BCAAs" are literally pointless. I don't even know what the other thing is, so i highly doubt its worth whatever it costs.
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    Well im a vegetarian, only non-vegan food i eat are eggs once a day
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    Originally Posted by BradPlitt View Post
    When cutting, which supplement is better in general/training fasted(IF) for preserving muscle mass?
    Leucine, BCAA or HMB-FA
    6 gram protein from whey + 4 gram leucine will fully stimulate MPS. So will 10 gram of EAAs.

    BCAAs are a waste of money.

    HMB-FA has one shady study supporting it but it may hold promise in the future.
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    I started working out at night time i finish around 30mins before bed, i eat 30g protein from chicken breast after my work out is that enough to sustain me for 9 hours until breakfast?
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    Originally Posted by ThinkAndGoHam View Post
    I started working out at night time i finish around 30mins before bed, i eat 30g protein from chicken breast after my work out is that enough to sustain me for 9 hours until breakfast?
    It's a whole lot better than nothing. It probably won't maximise MPS over 9 hours though, for that you probably need 40 gram (perhaps 50 would be even better, 50 hasn't been tested over 9 hours).

    Personally I wouldn't worry about it but if you're looking for the last few % of gains it might be worth while.
    Last edited by Mrpb; 09-22-2017 at 10:13 AM.
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