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  1. #271
    REMAIN INDOORS SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by xxYoungexx View Post
    Bodybuilder 1: does cardio and lifts weights whilst in a 500 calories deficit.

    Bodybuilder 2: lifts weights whilst in a 500 calorie deficit.

    Is there any benfiet to doing cardio on a cut aside from being able to eat more and overal health?

    I've always wondered why some choose to eat more and do cardio if you can achieve the same goals eating less.
    If both bodybuilders need to train at or near MRV (max recoverable volume), then adding cardio into the mix will either cause overreaching or will necessitate a reduction in training volume - so doing cardio in this case will hurt bodybuilder 1s gains.

    Apart from that no. There is a theory called G-flux but there is no solid evidence behind it AFAIK.
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  2. #272
    Common sense/moderation. gbullock32's Avatar
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    Finally have a stupid question myself: If a person enters a state of Diabetic Ketoacidosis is it then impossible for them to gain fat, due to the cells not being able to make use of the glucose in the blood stream for energy?

    Been reading more on insulin, carbs, and such lately and this stuck me as a possibility. Since the body could not use the carbs entering the system and turns to fat for fuel in this case, would they then keep losing fat even in a caloric surplus.

    Well, before coma/death of course...
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  3. #273
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    woah. let's wait for heisman to chime in
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  4. #274
    Common sense/moderation. gbullock32's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by muruku View Post
    woah. let's wait for heisman to chime in
    Yup, curious on his input.
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  5. #275
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    Originally Posted by gbullock32 View Post
    Well, before coma/death of course...
    I think that would be the likely scenario over fat loss/gain

    If the person is still eating fat then HSL would still be suppressed and there wouldn't be a fat loss and probably gain during a surplus afaik. IIRC there are several alternate pathways to store fat during keto/ketoacidosis without the aid of insulin.
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  6. #276
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    Sorry to disappoint you guys, but I'd have to review various pathways to try to suggest what would happen. Practically speaking, though, DKA pretty much by definition means your CO2 concentration is <15, and when your CO2 concentration is <15 you tend to vomit up anything you consume while in DKA. DKA patients come in very dehydrated and with far too little insulin; we typically just give them IV fluids and IV insulin for awhile (could be 1-2 days depending on how severe things are and how quickly they respond) and once their blood and/or urine ketone concentration decreases and their CO2 increases, we start to transition them to home-going insulin regimens as well as let them eat. It's more complicated than that as there can be a lot of electrolyte abnormalities that must be monitored for (specifically, whole body stores of potassium are usually depleted but the blood concentration is elevated), and there is an uncommon but possibly fatal complication from cerebral edema (I think this is the main cause of death in patients who die with DKA but I'd have to look it up).

    So you can ask what would happen if we just gave them lipids via IV; this is done commonly in patients who cannot eat for whatever reason and need total parenteral nutrition. People on TPN in the hospital have labs monitored frequently (usually basic electrolytes daily) as weird things can happen, so it's likely we would catch someone going into DKA before it actually happens. So, I don't know. If I ever get some free time I may try to look this up if I remember.
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  7. #277
    Common sense/moderation. gbullock32's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Heisman2 View Post
    Sorry to disappoint you guys, but I'd have to review various pathways to try to suggest what would happen. Practically speaking, though, DKA pretty much by definition means your CO2 concentration is <15, and when your CO2 concentration is <15 you tend to vomit up anything you consume while in DKA. DKA patients come in very dehydrated and with far too little insulin; we typically just give them IV fluids and IV insulin for awhile (could be 1-2 days depending on how severe things are and how quickly they respond) and once their blood and/or urine ketone concentration decreases and their CO2 increases, we start to transition them to home-going insulin regimens as well as let them eat. It's more complicated than that as there can be a lot of electrolyte abnormalities that must be monitored for (specifically, whole body stores of potassium are usually depleted but the blood concentration is elevated), and there is an uncommon but possibly fatal complication from cerebral edema (I think this is the main cause of death in patients who die with DKA but I'd have to look it up).

    So you can ask what would happen if we just gave them lipids via IV; this is done commonly in patients who cannot eat for whatever reason and need total parenteral nutrition. People on TPN in the hospital have labs monitored frequently (usually basic electrolytes daily) as weird things can happen, so it's likely we would catch someone going into DKA before it actually happens. So, I don't know. If I ever get some free time I may try to look this up if I remember.
    Cool info; no rush, was just curious on it. Would make an interesting test but I doubt anyone would find it ethical due to health ramifications and possibility for death.
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  8. #278
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    Time for my own stupid question.

    As someone more "advanced" (meaning mostly training and actual age), how short a "cycle" in terms of bulking/cutting can i get away with, without massively compromising somewhere?

    Explanation:

    I am reasonably sedentary and i am not great with willpower, sort of. Whilst cutting, i can commit to eating 1900 odd calories, and usually manage to lose at a steady 1lb a week. While bulking, i really struggle to find the willpower not to slightly overeat, and always end up gaining weight too fast. (Usually around a rate of 2-4lbs a month rather than the 0-1lbs i should be aiming for really).

    I'm confident the "optimal" answer here is to stop being a child and manage my intake better while on a "bulk", and maybe one day i'll manage this. For now though i'm considering shorter periods spent in a surplus/deficit. Maybe 2-3 months at a surplus, then about half this at a deficit.

    Thoughts, pros/cons? Definite 100% wheel spinning? Assume my training is on point.

    Something else to add: For whatever reason, i never seem to struggle with strength while on a cut. Never noticed a loss, usually notice (very slow) gains.

    Edit: No aspirations to compete in anything or model. Just looking to eventually look good at as low a bf% as reasonably possible.
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  9. #279
    Registered User countfapula54's Avatar
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    is a high protein high fat low carb (non keto) diet bad for cholesterol levels?

    I was on a 40% protein 40% fat 20% carb macro and always wondered about this.
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  10. #280
    Common sense/moderation. gbullock32's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by countfapula54 View Post
    is a high protein high fat low carb (non keto) diet bad for cholesterol levels?

    I was on a 40% protein 40% fat 20% carb macro and always wondered about this.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3900007/

    In short- no.
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  11. #281
    Registered sick kunt Jherewhoisdere's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by countfapula54 View Post
    is a high protein high fat low carb (non keto) diet bad for cholesterol levels?

    I was on a 40% protein 40% fat 20% carb macro and always wondered about this.
    Keep your saturated fat intake at 10% (or below) of energy and keep your trans fat intake as low as possible.

    Originally Posted by gbullock32 View Post
    Dietary cholesterol is not that big of a concern as once thought but it does seem to have a little impact on blood cholesterol.
    u mirin'?
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  12. #282
    greece monk quay muruku's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by countfapula54 View Post
    is a high protein high fat low carb (non keto) diet bad for cholesterol levels?

    I was on a 40% protein 40% fat 20% carb macro and always wondered about this.
    hard question to answer.

    but like jhere said, keep sat fats <10% of total EI is a good rule of thumb to follo.w

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26109578
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  13. #283
    Sam the Eagle Znik's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by chamelious View Post
    Time for my own stupid question.

    As someone more "advanced" (meaning mostly training and actual age), how short a "cycle" in terms of bulking/cutting can i get away with, without massively compromising somewhere?
    As long as possible is about the best answer.
    It takes anywhere from 2-4 weeks to fully transition over to mass gaining phase from a deficit, so every time you make the transition you lose ~2 weeks worth of "time".

    Read Lyles "happy medium" paragraph here if you haven't: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...ass-gain.html/
    Relates fairly good to what you want to do.
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  14. #284
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    Originally Posted by Znik View Post
    As long as possible is about the best answer.
    It takes anywhere from 2-4 weeks to fully transition over to mass gaining phase from a deficit, so every time you make the transition you lose ~2 weeks worth of "time".

    Read Lyles "happy medium" paragraph here if you haven't: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...ass-gain.html/
    Relates fairly good to what you want to do.
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  15. #285
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    Hi, I have a small question, didn't want to open new thread.
    Is it okay to blend cooked rice with water and whey protein and drink it after workout as a shake because I'm sick of eating rice just take my time, I mean I know it's okay but is it okay to bring that shake from home and let it sit in my bag in gym locker? It won't go bad or something? I don't want diarrhea or something. Haha.
    Thx for answers in advance.
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  16. #286
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    Originally Posted by mattyzgg View Post
    Hi, I have a small question, didn't want to open new thread.
    Is it okay to blend cooked rice with water and whey protein and drink it after workout as a shake because I'm sick of eating rice just take my time, I mean I know it's okay but is it okay to bring that shake from home and let it sit in my bag in gym locker? It won't go bad or something? I don't want diarrhea or something. Haha.
    Thx for answers in advance.
    Do you realise you don't have to eat rice? Or drink protein shakes?

    What you're asking is "fine" in that it won't explode or something, it'll be disgusting though. Why don't you just eat other foods?

    Also, you absolutely don't need to take things to the gym with you to eat/drink. Unless you really want to.
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  17. #287
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    I know I understand you, but after gym in 90% of time I don't go home so I just need a quick protein and some carbs shake so it will be so much quicker and easier just to drink that until my next meal (meat and veggies and stuff) thx for quick reply. I will try, hope that won't be so disgusting haha.
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  18. #288
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    Originally Posted by mattyzgg View Post
    I know I understand you, but after gym in 90% of time I don't go home so I just need a quick protein and some carbs shake so it will be so much quicker and easier just to drink that until my next meal (meat and veggies and stuff) thx for quick reply. I will try, hope that won't be so disgusting haha.
    Why don't you just take some actual food? Why are you so keen on using rice?
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  19. #289
    Registered User Gramatton's Avatar
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    Assuming you train consistently (progressive weight training for example), if you eat at a reasonable surplus you will gain muscle mass, and if you eat at deficit you will lose fat. What if you eat at maintenance? Could your body, slowly change composition by gaining muscle mass and losing fat? Just a theoretical question to which I haven't been able to find a definitive answer.
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    Originally Posted by Gramatton View Post
    Assuming you train consistently (progressive weight training for example), if you eat at a reasonable surplus you will gain muscle mass, and if you eat at deficit you will lose fat. What if you eat at maintenance? Could your body, slowly change composition by gaining muscle mass and losing fat? Just a theoretical question to which I haven't been able to find a definitive answer.
    Yes, sorta. Depends on some stuff. For eg, a 5 foot 10 guy at 180lbs ish is going to be a better candidate for a recomp than say a 5 foot girl at 300lbs.

    Such a process is generally slower than cutting/bulking. So if you're in a position where you have a lot of excess fat or hardly any muscle, its not a particularly sensible choice.
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  21. #291
    Registered User mattyzgg's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by chamelious View Post
    Why don't you just take some actual food? Why are you so keen on using rice?
    Because I just need carbs after workout and rice seems like cheapest solution for that thing, what do you recommend cheap solution that can be blend with whey and water to supplement in my shake as I said I don't go always home after gym ( of course when I go home after gym I just drink whey and then eat a proper meal at home ).
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  22. #292
    Common sense/moderation. gbullock32's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mattyzgg View Post
    Because I just need carbs after workout and rice seems like cheapest solution for that thing, what do you recommend cheap solution that can be blend with whey and water to supplement in my shake as I said I don't go always home after gym ( of course when I go home after gym I just drink whey and then eat a proper meal at home ).
    When you say 'need' carbs.... do you mean you prefer to have them, or that you feel you actually must have carbs? Because they are not 'needed'.
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  23. #293
    Registered User Gramatton's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mattyzgg View Post
    Because I just need carbs after workout and rice seems like cheapest solution for that thing, what do you recommend cheap solution that can be blend with whey and water to supplement in my shake as I said I don't go always home after gym ( of course when I go home after gym I just drink whey and then eat a proper meal at home ).
    You know, this tastes way better with milk. If you use UTH milk (not fresh), you can easily carry it around with you all day and it won't spoil. Any specific reason you are using water?

    Also, if you are set on having a large quantity of carbs in you shake (if you only want a little, some honey or even sugar will do just fine), oats taste decent with milk and protein powder.

    Originally Posted by chamelious View Post
    Yes, sorta. Depends on some stuff. For eg, a 5 foot 10 guy at 180lbs ish is going to be a better candidate for a recomp than say a 5 foot girl at 300lbs.

    Such a process is generally slower than cutting/bulking. So if you're in a position where you have a lot of excess fat or hardly any muscle, its not a particularly sensible choice.
    I see. I am not trying to do that, I was just wondering what would/should happen if you continue exerting your muscles, but eating at maintenance. Thanks.
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  24. #294
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    While I am a noob who has posted multiple threads already, I have ready most of the stickies, and I even read most of them before I started posting threads. For me, at least, there was so much information provided in the stickies and on the internet in general that I had a hard time wading through it all to figure out what pertained to my specific questions/situation and what was not immediately relevant which is why I tend to ask some questions that can be readily answered by the stickies - I just couldn't figure out which information was the stuff I needed in the stickies.

    That said, I have a stupid question about counting calories and macros: I know everyone on this site says to hit your macro goals, and then fill in the remaining calories however you want to, and I get that. My question is, are all calories really created equally? I have always been under the impression, for example, that protein is harder for your body to break down and process than, say, carbs, so eating protein actually causes your body to burn more calories than eating the same number of calories from carbs. Is this fundamentally not true, or is there some additional nuance/information that I am missing?
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    Originally Posted by Imp81318 View Post
    That said, I have a stupid question about counting calories and macros: I know everyone on this site says to hit your macro goals, and then fill in the remaining calories however you want to, and I get that. My question is, are all calories really created equally? I have always been under the impression, for example, that protein is harder for your body to break down and process than, say, carbs, so eating protein actually causes your body to burn more calories than eating the same number of calories from carbs. Is this fundamentally not true, or is there some additional nuance/information that I am missing?
    In a sense, yes. There is a tiny tiny difference in the TEF (thermic effect of food aka the energy cost of breaking it down) between different carb sources (or fat/protein sources) like some grains might just be 3.4kcal/g easier broken down ones can be 3.6kcal/g etc. but it's mindwrecking even to just think about that so it all gets rounded up to an easy number (4 for prot/carb and 9 for fat) as it for the most part evens out when you calculate your whole intake (some give more some give less).

    The only fundamental difference between macro sources energy wise is the TEF for the different macros (protein/fat/carb):

    Protein: 20-35% of calories burned through processing
    Carbohydrates: 5-15% of calories burned through processing
    Fats: 0-5% of calories burned through processing

    And there is a further cost for breaking down foods further along the line when there is an excess and it's not immediately used for energy/ps (like protein to glucose/glycogen costs extra energy, carb to fat costs extra energy etc.)
    Hence why an excess of protein theoretically never gets stored as fat (as it first gets turned to glucose/glycogen and if there is no energy need or glycogen stores are full then that glucose gets turned to fat, by which time most of the energy is burned through processing anyway).

    But! (there is always a but so don't get any ideas about binging on protein thinking that's going to do magic), X macro and it's further process frees up X(primarily dietary fat) to be stored as body fat, thanks to insulin and other body functions.

    In short, don't worry about the "Are all calories equal" crap, just factor your normal intake into your TDEE (which already accounts for all the fancy metabolic stuff) and go by what the scales/progress tells you. People tend to have a fairly linear diet without much variations, so once you track your intake over time you pretty much got everything set and don't need to worry about what macro to eat more of (apart from getting adequate levels ofc.)
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  26. #296
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    Originally Posted by mattyzgg View Post
    Because I just need carbs after workout and rice seems like cheapest solution for that thing, what do you recommend cheap solution that can be blend with whey and water to supplement in my shake as I said I don't go always home after gym ( of course when I go home after gym I just drink whey and then eat a proper meal at home ).
    8oz coffee + whey mix and eat a banana
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    Another stupid question... I know that calories should generally be tracked and averaged over time, and I don't concern myself with hitting my exact goal each day. Yesterday, for example, I went over my goal by ~725 calories whereas today I am going to end up around 450 under my goal without factoring in calories burned during my workout today.

    So, today I am 58g shy of my protein goal and 5g short on fat. I just got done eating dinner and do not feel particularly hungry, but I'm not super full either. Should I eat some nuts or something to make sure I meet my daily protein and fat goal, or should I average them out over several days like I do with calories? Yesterday I was over my goals by close to the same amount that I'm under today.

    It seems counterintuitive to eat for the sake of hitting macros when I'm trying to lose fat, but I also want to make sure that I'm giving my body everything it needs to function properly.
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  28. #298
    Common sense/moderation. gbullock32's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Imp81318 View Post
    Another stupid question... I know that calories should generally be tracked and averaged over time, and I don't concern myself with hitting my exact goal each day. Yesterday, for example, I went over my goal by ~725 calories whereas today I am going to end up around 450 under my goal without factoring in calories burned during my workout today.

    So, today I am 58g shy of my protein goal and 5g short on fat. I just got done eating dinner and do not feel particularly hungry, but I'm not super full either. Should I eat some nuts or something to make sure I meet my daily protein and fat goal, or should I average them out over several days like I do with calories? Yesterday I was over my goals by close to the same amount that I'm under today.

    It seems counterintuitive to eat for the sake of hitting macros when I'm trying to lose fat, but I also want to make sure that I'm giving my body everything it needs to function properly.
    One day here and there wont matter, it averages the same; if you are consistently over/under then it becomes a problem.
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    Another random question...

    Is there any connection between previously overweight/obese people that have lost weight and finding they feel better/perform better with higher fat and low carb? I know a hand full of other people that fit this criteria and respond much better with a higher fat macro with carbs 100g or lower. Is this coincidence or can it be explained by science in any way?

    Thanks!
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  30. #300
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    It would make sense since they probably had insulin resistance issues. I myself used to have problems with reactive hypoglycaemia but these have largely disappeared now - probably just due to losing fat and being active. I now find that I am trying to push my carb intake higher for performance reasons.
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