Stupid Question thread

[Heisman2]

The key word being excess?
I'm trying to have an open discussion and show that a diet you can stick to is the one you go for however the guys i'm discussing this with seem to believe keto is superior because carbs cause inflammation.
Do you have any papers/research that show inflammation caused by carbs is bad?

I'm trying to stay open minded about this and struggling to accept the carbs in fruits causing inflammation.

They do not cause inflammation? Tell them to show studies proving they cause inflammation when eaten sensibly.

[xxYoungexx]

They do not cause inflammation? Tell them to show studies proving they cause inflammation when eaten sensibly.

I'll reply as soon as they give me something concrete. Thanks again.

[Mrpb]

"he keto benefits come from the anti inflamatory effects
so health wise… long term keto regardless of weight gain, loss, body comp etc … is better for heart health and other metabolic diseases
especially if you have a tolerance issue to any of the stuff keto eliminates
gluten, carbs in general, or any food groups"

Can anyone provide any evidence/papers that back this up?
I'm trying to explain that a diet you can stick to is the norm however interested in inflammation effects from carbs.

It's the type of nonsense that the keto fans believe. Unfortunately when they've visited the websites that promote keto they're usually too far down the rabbit hole to be open to the idea that what they read was actually biased and cherry picked promotion material.

Oats for example have strong anti inflammatory effects.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28067025
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24604886

[EjnarKolinkar]

It's the type of nonsense

There are so many people taking a dropper full of science and touting it as an all powerful answer. Sad really when we have a sea of information.


https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/advanc...nqy082/5042153
Effects of fruit and vegetable consumption on inflammatory biomarkers and immune cell populations: a systematic literature review and meta-analysis

I'm trying to stay open minded about this and struggling to accept the carbs in fruits causing inflammation.

It's hard to sensationalize basic and compreshesive nutritional science, thus it's not very exciting. Nor can we blame our weight gain on some mystical force once it's understood.

Search up --- The Scientific Landscape of Healthy Eating - Dr. Mike Israetel and give it a watch.

[KalElLoco]

I recently embraced the whole mini cut and bulk cycles things
In your opinion, is it useless to cut for 2 weeks only?
I read Layne recommending a 4 week bulk - 2 week cut approach, but I come from a full 2 months bulk cycle
In the next i'll eventually correct timing accordingly

[SuffolkPunch]

I recently embraced the whole mini cut and bulk cycles things
In your opinion, is it useless to cut for 2 weeks only?
I read Layne recommending a 4 week bulk - 2 week cut approach, but I come from a full 2 months bulk cycle
In the next i'll eventually correct timing accordingly

No it's not useless, it brings down your long term average calorie balance - which is the only requirement for losing weight.

It might be hard to measure over such a short timescale - but if you repeat it often enough, the effects will become apparent.

Bulking might be a bit different if you are running a mesocycle based routine - throwing a mini cut into the middle of that might interfere with your progression, especially if it's an aggressive deficit.

[KalElLoco]

No it's not useless, it brings down your long term average calorie balance - which is the only requirement for losing weight.

It might be hard to measure over such a short timescale - but if you repeat it often enough, the effects will become apparent.

Bulking might be a bit different if you are running a mesocycle based routine - throwing a mini cut into the middle of that might interfere with your progression, especially if it's an aggressive deficit.

Thanks for your answer
What could be, in your opinion, a good cycle division in time terms?
I decided to do a minicut because I started stalling in my bulk, and feeling really burnt out too, in the gym, so I decided to throw a minicut in, in which The first of these two weeks Will be a deload

I Will continue tho, and re-evaluating around december or so, I know I need patience to make this work

Also, some claims you need to be over 10-12% bf to have optimal anabolic processes, these are bull****s right?

I always liked my height /weight combination, basically stronger than all the guys of My size and even someone bigger, but I'd want to reach a better height weight balance, I'm still a little light for My ideal weight

173cm, 66kg
But main lifts are not too bad, aside from bench in which I'm ****ty

My maxes:
Bench 80kg
Squat 115kg
Deadlifts 140


Ideally My target would be 70kg at least, as clean as possible

[SuffolkPunch]

Bulk - 1 mesocycle - or as many as you can make progress for.

Cut - you can deload at the same time as cutting - as you are content to just maintain. You can start a new routine while still cutting but may have to run a more modest calorie deficit if you hope to recomp.

Just a desire for change makes me shift at least every 2-3 months so I don't have experience of some upper limit for phases.

[KalElLoco]

So basically 2 - 3 months bulk, or at least 'til I progress, then 2 to 4 week cut could work just fine?

[anothergymer1]

Should i split up my Fish Oil intake to twice a day, or can i take all of them at once in the morning?

[Mrpb]

So basically 2 - 3 months bulk, or at least 'til I progress, then 2 to 4 week cut could work just fine?

In 2 months time you won't gain significant muscle.

If you're bulking at the right pace, gaining only 0.2% of body weight per week, you should be able to bulk for (much) longer than 2 months.

You want to bulk as long as possible without exceeding ~16-17%. Think 4 to 6 months or longer if possible.

Should i split up my Fish Oil intake to twice a day, or can i take all of them at once in the morning?

Doesn't matter.

[KalElLoco]

In 2 months time you won't gain significant muscle.

If you're bulking at the right pace, gaining only 0.2% of body weight per week, you should be able to bulk for (much) longer than 2 months.

You want to bulk as long as possible without exceeding ~16-17%. Think 4 to 6 months or longer if possible.



Doesn't matter.

Thanks for your suggestions too
I think then a good compromise is to bulk for the acceptable minimum, i. e. 4 months, judge my results, then decide If it's worth to continue or do a minicut

Some sort of hybrid cycles between The Classic bulk cut and The mini cycles

[justinn007]

Ok, here's yet another stupid question... I have seen and am currently following the recommendation for 0.8g/lb and 0.4g/lb targets for protein and fat intake, respectively. Do these values change at all based on your activity level - i.e. would a person that has low BF% and works out a lot building muscle need more protein to function properly/efficiently than a person of similar body weight that has higher BF% and is more sedentary?

[Mrpb]

Ok, here's yet another stupid question... I have seen and am currently following the recommendation for 0.8g/lb and 0.4g/lb targets for protein and fat intake, respectively. Do these values change at all based on your activity level - i.e. would a person that has low BF% and works out a lot building muscle need more protein to function properly/efficiently than a person of similar body weight that has higher BF% and is more sedentary?

No. Anyone look to build/retain muscle should consume 0.7 gram protein per lb or more.

[xxYoungexx]

It's the type of nonsense that the keto fans believe. Unfortunately when they've visited the websites that promote keto they're usually too far down the rabbit hole to be open to the idea that what they read was actually biased and cherry picked promotion material.

Oats for example have strong anti inflammatory effects.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28067025
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24604886

Took the guys nearly two weeks but here we are

"in the majority of humans, carb intake causes an increase in inflamation markers which are indicative of inflamation. Inflamation in the majority of humans is a substancial contributor to cancers"

"there is a proven inflamatory effcet from cabrs in general, anything above 20g a day causes inflamation in most people

because most people have issues metabolising carbs in some form
some people have fat issues (generally if you've had gall bladder removed)
and protein (if your gut bacteria is ****ed)
but.. carb issues are more common
because it doesnt need a initiator, people in general dont tolerate carbs well
it causes inflamation, the body handles it
but over time - that contributes to cancer"

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/99/4/813/4637862

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2803035/


I look forward to seeing what you think,

[Heisman2]

Took the guys nearly two weeks but here we are

"in the majority of humans, carb intake causes an increase in inflamation markers which are indicative of inflamation. Inflamation in the majority of humans is a substancial contributor to cancers"

"there is a proven inflamatory effcet from cabrs in general, anything above 20g a day causes inflamation in most people

because most people have issues metabolising carbs in some form
some people have fat issues (generally if you've had gall bladder removed)
and protein (if your gut bacteria is ****ed)
but.. carb issues are more common
because it doesnt need a initiator, people in general dont tolerate carbs well
it causes inflamation, the body handles it
but over time - that contributes to cancer"

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/99/4/813/4637862

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2803035/


I look forward to seeing what you think,

What do you think? If you want to debate people it's worth the time to read through literature and attempt to form your own conclusions.

That said, I'm only reading the abstracts, but the first link (2014 systematic review) stated 5/9 observational studies showed benefit to low GI/GL (meaning 4/9 did not) and 3/13 intervention studies showed benefit to low GI/GL (meaning 10/13 did not). That is not very convincing regarding GI/GL. For fiber, 13/16 observational studies showed benefit but only 1/11 intervention studies did; that is not very convincing for fiber as it's quite possibly people who eat more fiber have generally healthier lifestyles which could explain what was seen with the observational studies. For whole grain, 6/7 observational studies showed benefit but only 1/11 intervention studies did, which also is not very convincing and does nothing to make me think that eating "healthy" carbs will lower one's state of inflammation.

[xxYoungexx]

What do you think? If you want to debate people it's worth the time to read through literature and attempt to form your own conclusions.

That said, I'm only reading the abstracts, but the first link (2014 systematic review) stated 5/9 observational studies showed benefit to low GI/GL (meaning 4/9 did not) and 3/13 intervention studies showed benefit to low GI/GL (meaning 10/13 did not). That is not very convincing regarding GI/GL. For fiber, 13/16 observational studies showed benefit but only 1/11 intervention studies did; that is not very convincing for fiber as it's quite possibly people who eat more fiber have generally healthier lifestyles which could explain what was seen with the observational studies. For whole grain, 6/7 observational studies showed benefit but only 1/11 intervention studies did, which also is not very convincing and does nothing to make me think that eating "healthy" carbs will lower one's state of inflammation.

I personally don't believe in blaming one sole reason for being overweight. I've done enough research and spent the time discovering what works for me which might not work for others however i'm always open to learning new ways to improve. I really want to shut down the debate and help them learn that a diet you can stick to is the best.....

Thanks for the info mate.

[EjnarKolinkar]

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/99/4/813/4637862

^How does this support any of the points you typed up?

I failed to see anything which suggested a healthy person should avoid fruits, vegetables, or carbs in general either.

From the study:

In conclusion, evidence from intervention studies for antiinflammatory benefits is less consistent for higher-fiber or whole-grain diets than for low-GI/GL diets. Antiinflammatory benefits of higher dietary fiber and whole grain intakes suggested by observational studies are not supported by intervention studies, which indicates that confounding is likely and/or that the statistical power in intervention studies may have been too low to reveal small effects.

I thought it was interesting and well written but I'm not going to stop eating carbs because of it, nor do I think the study suggest I should stop.

I really want to shut down the debate and help them learn that a diet you can stick to is the best.....

I agree that long term compliance is very important. Interesting thought also from the study you linked above:

The fact that high-fiber diets were effectively used in landmark diabetes prevention studies (96, 97) does not contradict this concern, because the benefits observed in these studies stem from weight loss via integrated lifestyle modifications and cannot be directly attributed to the composition of the diet.

[Mrpb]

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/99/4/813/4637862

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2803035/

I look forward to seeing what you think,

Neither paper supports the claims with credible data.

On the topic of GI: "Thus, it is unlikely that the GI of a food or diet is linked to disease risk or health outcomes. Other measures of dietary quality, such as fiber or whole grains may be more likely to predict health outcomes."
https://www.mdpi.com/2072-6643/10/10/1361

Some references on the benefits of fruit intake:

Conclusions: Fruit and vegetable intakes were associated with reduced risk of cardiovascular disease, cancer and all-cause mortality. These results support public health recommendations to increase fruit and vegetable intake for the prevention of cardiovascular disease, cancer, and premature mortality.
https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/46/3/1029/3039477

Thirty-eight studies, consisting of 47 independent cohorts, were eligible in this meta-analysis. There were 1,498,909 participants (44,013 CVD events) with a median follow-up of 10.5 years. Our results indicate that increased FV intake is inversely associated with the risk of CVD. This meta-analysis provides strong support for the current recommendations to consume a high amount of FV to reduce CVD risk.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26114864

This meta-analysis provides further evidence that a higher consumption of fruit and vegetables is associated with a lower risk of all cause mortality, particularly cardiovascular mortality.
http://www.bmj.com/content/349/bmj.g4490

The current evidence from prospective studies is consistent with a protective role of fruit and vegetables in lung cancer aetiology.
https://academic.oup.com/annonc/article/27/1/81/2196208

The present meta-analysis indicates that FV consumption might be inversely associated with hypertension risk, 
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...jch.12777/full

This meta-analysis of cohort studies shows that fruit and vegetable consumption is inversely associated with the risk of CHD. 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16988131

[anothergymer1]

Started my cut and i want to eat pretty clean, as in no dairy and added sugars limited to 5% of calories. I know i don't have to eat like this, but i want to, to see if it helps with clearing up my skin, and I feel like sticking to a meal plan helps me stay consistent. Now, I was thinking of having a cheat meal, every Sunday, how should i go about this? Fast most of the day and have the meal and keep it within my daily calories?

[smallbutbigger]

I am doing kind of an involuntary IF. I basically only eat a single meal at around 7:00 P.M, every day. It's usually some sort of meat and leafy green vegetables. I take a 1-a-day multivitamin for men after my meal. My goal is to just lose weight.

My question is: Is this going to ruin my health?

I don't want to develop a problem because I am too poor to afford food. Not sure if I am getting the nutrients I need - don't really want to develop scurvy or something. Just need to know if I need to start hustling a bit more.

[YoungYetWise]

I am doing kind of an involuntary IF. I basically only eat a single meal at around 7:00 P.M, every day. It's usually some sort of meat and leafy green vegetables. I take a 1-a-day multivitamin for men after my meal. My goal is to just lose weight.

My question is: Is this going to ruin my health?

I don't want to develop a problem because I am too poor to afford food. Not sure if I am getting the nutrients I need - don't really want to develop scurvy or something. Just need to know if I need to start hustling a bit more.

It depends if you have pre-existing health conditions or not. If not then you'll be fine. Lots of people do IF with success. I personally can't do IF because of my Hypoglycemia and Gastroparesis. If you're worried about not being able to afford nutrient-dense foods, there are shakes and multivitamins available.

[Heisman2]

Started my cut and i want to eat pretty clean, as in no dairy and added sugars limited to 5% of calories. I know i don't have to eat like this, but i want to, to see if it helps with clearing up my skin, and I feel like sticking to a meal plan helps me stay consistent. Now, I was thinking of having a cheat meal, every Sunday, how should i go about this? Fast most of the day and have the meal and keep it within my daily calories?

If you must have a cheat meal then yes, try to keep it within your daily calories. You do not necessarily even need to think of it as a cheat meal in that case.

[Heisman2]

I am doing kind of an involuntary IF. I basically only eat a single meal at around 7:00 P.M, every day. It's usually some sort of meat and leafy green vegetables. I take a 1-a-day multivitamin for men after my meal. My goal is to just lose weight.

My question is: Is this going to ruin my health?

I don't want to develop a problem because I am too poor to afford food. Not sure if I am getting the nutrients I need - don't really want to develop scurvy or something. Just need to know if I need to start hustling a bit more.

Are you too poor to afford rice, oatmeal, and peanut butter? The effect on your health will depend on your total calories and grams of protein and fat you are getting daily.

[anothergymer1]

If you must have a cheat meal then yes, try to keep it within your daily calories. You do not necessarily even need to think of it as a cheat meal in that case.

Thanks