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  1. #151
    Registered User finnyskat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Very sad you feel this way. I would advise getting help before you spiral more downhill.
    yeah.
    i'm gonna do it though. i'll get through this. we'll both get through this, my man. your recovery looks solid so far.
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  2. #152
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    Originally Posted by finnyskat View Post
    yeah.
    i'm gonna do it though. i'll get through this. we'll both get through this, my man. your recovery looks solid so far.
    So you're getting help?

    If not, I would recommend spending some time observing your emotions, behaviors, and practicing 'mindfulness' techniques.

    It is very useful during times when you are tempted to restrict to write down where you are, what is happening, and what you can notice about your thoughts when this occurs. It really helps me analyze WHY I feel the need to control my food intake and my activity.

    Gradually you will likely begin to understand your reasoning more and the need for change will become more apparent. It's not easy and it can be shocking but ultimately it can be hugely beneficial.

    For example, through journaling and continued observations and exposure therapy, I was able to identify my fear of the scale, other core issues I have with exercise, why specific foods cause fear for me, and go on to test those areas to try and make myself get used to them.

    In terms of recovery being 'solid' it's just too early for me to say. For now I am doing 'what I can' on my own and that is enough. Time will tell! Gotta live life.
    Sweet tap-dancing Christ
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  3. #153
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    So you're getting help?

    If not, I would recommend spending some time observing your emotions, behaviors, and practicing 'mindfulness' techniques.

    It is very useful during times when you are tempted to restrict to write down where you are, what is happening, and what you can notice about your thoughts when this occurs. It really helps me analyze WHY I feel the need to control my food intake and my activity.

    Gradually you will likely begin to understand your reasoning more and the need for change will become more apparent. It's not easy and it can be shocking but ultimately it can be hugely beneficial.

    For example, through journaling and continued observations and exposure therapy, I was able to identify my fear of the scale, other core issues I have with exercise, why specific foods cause fear for me, and go on to test those areas to try and make myself get used to them.

    In terms of recovery being 'solid' it's just too early for me to say. For now I am doing 'what I can' on my own and that is enough. Time will tell! Gotta live life.
    i am. . . eventually. i'm doing sort of what you're doing, for now. what i can on my own, which is lifting and exercising and eating enough for that, specifically. but. . i'm making steps. i had some "off-plan" pb2 today, and also progressed on some lifts. granted, the pb2 still "fit my macros" but. . . i wanted it in the moment.

    as far as journaling and figuring out the "whys"--. . . yikes. that's going to be fun. diving into my brain? unprotected?

    i think we're both probably people who would benefit from seeing a dietician/nutritionist, like erik mentioned. i know for a fact that "normalizing" my eating is going to be a bear. there comes a point where you ask yourself: am i really eating these green beans off the floor right now just because i weighed them before i dropped them?

    i'm so glad you're living life, though, and that this is working for you.
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  4. #154
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    Originally Posted by finnyskat View Post
    i am. . . eventually. i'm doing sort of what you're doing, for now. what i can on my own, which is lifting and exercising and eating enough for that, specifically. but. . i'm making steps. i had some "off-plan" pb2 today, and also progressed on some lifts. granted, the pb2 still "fit my macros" but. . . i wanted it in the moment.

    as far as journaling and figuring out the "whys"--. . . yikes. that's going to be fun. diving into my brain? unprotected?

    i think we're both probably people who would benefit from seeing a dietician/nutritionist, like erik mentioned. i know for a fact that "normalizing" my eating is going to be a bear. there comes a point where you ask yourself: am i really eating these green beans off the floor right now just because i weighed them before i dropped them?

    i'm so glad you're living life, though, and that this is working for you.
    Lifting and exercises may not be a good idea depending on where you're at, especially given that it sounds like a purging method for you.

    Fixing one thing but not the other during recover often leads to people get stuck in 'pseudo-recovery' indefinitely. You don't want that.

    I'm not saying you cannot move around, but you need to be BRUTALLY honest with yourself (not me or anything else) and understand WHY you're exercising and whether or not you use it as just another means of control.
    Sweet tap-dancing Christ
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  5. #155
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Lifting and exercises may not be a good idea depending on where you're at, especially given that it sounds like a purging method for you.

    Fixing one thing but not the other during recover often leads to people get stuck in 'pseudo-recovery' indefinitely. You don't want that.

    I'm not saying you cannot move around, but you need to be BRUTALLY honest with yourself (not me or anything else) and understand WHY you're exercising and whether or not you use it as just another means of control.
    yehehahahehehooo, hoo, hooooo boy.
    i'm thinking you're right about this. i can't tell whether or not i enjoy lifting, really. i keep going back and forth on this.
    what's funny is, at the "worst" of my habits, i wasn't really exercising. i was just restricting to very little or surviving on caffeine. then, i started lifting to help me recover, and now i'm. . .
    yep. in pseudo-recovery.

    also, i just thought of something that i don't know if you're familiar with but you seem smart so you prob'ly are: people with ed histories are often at risk for endocrine disorders. it's part of why i'm going to. . . eventually. . . try to get better, before i get worse.
    i'm getting my thyroid checked this friday, but maybe you ought to as well? i saw that you're recovering for your health, so it might be good to know where you stand on that. and, if your results improve as you recover, you'll confirm you're headed in the right direction!
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  6. #156
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    Originally Posted by finnyskat View Post
    yehehahahehehooo, hoo, hooooo boy.
    i'm thinking you're right about this. i can't tell whether or not i enjoy lifting, really. i keep going back and forth on this.
    what's funny is, at the "worst" of my habits, i wasn't really exercising. i was just restricting to very little or surviving on caffeine. then, i started lifting to help me recover, and now i'm. . .
    yep. in pseudo-recovery.

    also, i just thought of something that i don't know if you're familiar with but you seem smart so you prob'ly are: people with ed histories are often at risk for endocrine disorders. it's part of why i'm going to. . . eventually. . . try to get better, before i get worse.
    i'm getting my thyroid checked this friday, but maybe you ought to as well? i saw that you're recovering for your health, so it might be good to know where you stand on that. and, if your results improve as you recover, you'll confirm you're headed in the right direction!
    I've had nearly every test under the sun my friend... believe me... we're talking thousands of dollars (out of pocket, that's AFTER insurance helping out) to make sure my underlying health is fine. I have been cleared for basically any disease you can imagine by almost a dozen specialists using both blood and other imaging methods:

    - Cardiac risk tests (tons of lipid tests, heart imaging tests, stress tests, take-home rhythm monitors...etc..etc..)
    - All hormones including thyroid, testosterone... etc...
    - standard blood counts and metabolism
    - markers for inflammation
    - allergies
    - stomach tests for absorption issues
    - vitamin tests (D, B12, Folate..)
    - Iron

    I could go on and on my friend...

    On paper I am in good health except my slightly low blood cell counts which is almost certainly due to low bodyfat and weight.

    My trouble is that I am hovering in the danger zone and suffering as a result... another slight drop and I could start to do REALLY bad medically... but I already feel the issue, so i'm doing something about it.
    Sweet tap-dancing Christ
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  7. #157
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    Also, @ finnyskat...

    It is apparent to me that you are in the beginning phases of discovering the root causes and underlying motivations that cause your mental problems with food and body image.

    I suggest doing some Googling around for information on the subjects of Orthorexia, Anorexia, Recovery, and Exercise Addiction/Exercise Bulimia.

    As I mentioned, the issue is about control, and although you may feel fitness/lifting weights is separate from your eating, it is basically NEVER separate in situations where the person also controls or restricts their food intake.

    In my vase, it is DEFINITELY both, so I need to handle both of these issues at the same time. Which basically means I cannot exercise unless I know I am 100% doing it because it makes me feel better...and that there is ZERO thought around calorie burning or energy expenditure around it. This INCLUDES working out in an effort to 'optimize' the muscle gains from the extra calories i'm eating.

    Today, for example, I wanted to lift weights because I hadn't in many days... but I chose not to go because as the time approached wherein I was considering a session, I noticed myself somewhere in the back of my mind thinking about whether I would be hungrier after.

    The goal for me to completely disconnect EXERCISE from food and calories.... I need to turn exercise into something I do purely to enhance my life, not to optimize energy burn. If I can't do that, I cannot go. period. not even if the slightly thought exists.

    The opposite goes for food: if I so much as WONDER if I actually feel hungry, I have to assume I am... this is because after years of control - however gradual my weight loss was - I have messed up my hunger cues... so, I need to be reactive and quick to do so. It's the only way to fix it... gotta make food just another thing that exists... fuel.. nothing more and nothing less.

    That being said, of course I ENJOY what I consume... that should go without saying
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  8. #158
    Registered User finnyskat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    I've had nearly every test under the sun my friend... believe me... we're talking thousands of dollars (out of pocket, that's AFTER insurance helping out) to make sure my underlying health is fine. I have been cleared for basically any disease you can imagine by almost a dozen specialists using both blood and other imaging methods:

    - Cardiac risk tests (tons of lipid tests, heart imaging tests, stress tests, take-home rhythm monitors...etc..etc..)
    - All hormones including thyroid, testosterone... etc...
    - standard blood counts and metabolism
    - markers for inflammation
    - allergies
    - stomach tests for absorption issues
    - vitamin tests (D, B12, Folate..)
    - Iron

    I could go on and on my friend...

    On paper I am in good health except my slightly low blood cell counts which is almost certainly due to low bodyfat and weight.

    My trouble is that I am hovering in the danger zone and suffering as a result... another slight drop and I could start to do REALLY bad medically... but I already feel the issue, so i'm doing something about it.
    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    Also, @ finnyskat...

    It is apparent to me that you are in the beginning phases of discovering the root causes and underlying motivations that cause your mental problems with food and body image.

    I suggest doing some Googling around for information on the subjects of Orthorexia, Anorexia, Recovery, and Exercise Addiction/Exercise Bulimia.

    As I mentioned, the issue is about control, and although you may feel fitness/lifting weights is separate from your eating, it is basically NEVER separate in situations where the person also controls or restricts their food intake.

    In my vase, it is DEFINITELY both, so I need to handle both of these issues at the same time. Which basically means I cannot exercise unless I know I am 100% doing it because it makes me feel better...and that there is ZERO thought around calorie burning or energy expenditure around it. This INCLUDES working out in an effort to 'optimize' the muscle gains from the extra calories i'm eating.

    Today, for example, I wanted to lift weights because I hadn't in many days... but I chose not to go because as the time approached wherein I was considering a session, I noticed myself somewhere in the back of my mind thinking about whether I would be hungrier after.

    The goal for me to completely disconnect EXERCISE from food and calories.... I need to turn exercise into something I do purely to enhance my life, not to optimize energy burn. If I can't do that, I cannot go. period. not even if the slightly thought exists.

    The opposite goes for food: if I so much as WONDER if I actually feel hungry, I have to assume I am... this is because after years of control - however gradual my weight loss was - I have messed up my hunger cues... so, I need to be reactive and quick to do so. It's the only way to fix it... gotta make food just another thing that exists... fuel.. nothing more and nothing less.

    That being said, of course I ENJOY what I consume... that should go without saying
    adam, i just want to thank you for taking the time out of your day to reply to my responses. you seem to know what's up about mental health, and it's been nice having someone to relate to a bit.
    1. i'm glad you're otherwise in good health. the mental part of this is the toughest part, so i'm glad that part seems to be going well, too, my friend. as for me--my hormones are all out of whack, which is why i apparently have to gain weight. i'm glad i caught it early.
    b. i am definitely figuring out what. . my deal is. and i've started doing a lot of research. the medical stuff and concern about my hormones and thyroid all came from that, and . . . well. . . i know i have some kind of problem. making the steps to change it, to gain the weight, to recover--that's the hard part.

    what you're saying about separating exercise and eating, though. . . i have started to weave these two concepts together (and in fact i have noticed it getting better in some places and worse in others), and i'm starting to accept that i probably shouldn't. it's not been a behavior for me for long, but it does place a weird emphasis on food in my life.
    i am lucky in that the extent of my severe restriction (sometimes less than 800 calories a day) was not very long, but i guess it was long and fast enough to mess up the old hormones so, that's probably why i need to eat more, in general. additionally, i am sorry you suffered for ten years. that's a long time.
    you're definitely in a place where you're aware of why you do what you do/did what you did, and that's just awesome. i'm glad you know yourself super well, and that you're enjoying what you're eating!!
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  9. #159
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    Update: third day without training at all.

    I was very sore and fatigued all day... unsure why. Some brain fog, just was not feeling well.

    Instead, stayed in, rested, only real activity was walking down the street for coffee.

    On a related note, will likely have to give up coffee (again) soon. I don't actually think it's an issue for me, but coffee being a stimulant can mimic natural energy and I don't want anything getting in the way of the actual process of calories being my fuel source.

    I may also give up all calorie-free sweeteners for a similar reason. if I want something sweet, I will likely need to use actual sugar if anything.

    Not surprisingly, after being restful the whole day, in the evening I started to feel much better... not sore anymore... I actually feel awake and in a positive mindset.

    Perhaps tomorrow full energy will return
    Sweet tap-dancing Christ
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  10. #160
    Making Vegan Gains AdamWW's Avatar
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    Feeling excellent this morning... much more healed up.

    Decided on plan to weigh myself twice a week on two consecutive days to ensure at least short term progress, like Saturday and Sunday morning, then average the two days to make sure it isn't skewed from fluid/etc...

    Unsure if I will lift any weights today, but for now I feel good.
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  11. #161
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    Lifted today.. Push session.. very basic stuff...

    Got stronger
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    Amazingly I still had energy for a Pull session today... and yet again... got stronger...

    Again, very basic here... chins, rows, some curls, etc. None of the high-volume stuff.

    One thing I am noticing right now in lifting during recovery is that I actually REALLY enjoy low-volume work... i used to think I liked chasing the pump... but really... I think I enjoy the powerlifting style far more...

    Sunny day here in Seattle, too.. CHEERS
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    off day today... wow.. I am sore... going to be RESTING like crazy.

    This weekend's progress weigh in should be... interesting... been a crazy week.
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  14. #164
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    Here are starting stats that I never shared specifically:

    Starting Weight
    (6/18/2017): 131.25

    The above is the average of weights on 6/17 and 6/18. That is my planned cycle for weighing in to ensure I do not fall behind in the beginning; I will weigh in on Saturday and Sunday morning and average the weights.

    For lifting, yesterday I added weight on both squats and bench. I added 3 reps to my 5x5 squat on the first 3 sets, as well as 2 on the final 2 sets. Next push session I will increase the weight by 10lb.

    Bench press went up by 1 reps on all sets. I'll probably add 5lbs to my next session.

    Although I would love to say I will always get in 4 days a week to lift, right now it is more important to listen to my body and put recovery first. So, i'll get in when I feel able/good about it.

    For those interested, I am doing a slightly modified Fierce 5 which is Push/Pull instead of Upper/Lower.

    Today is golf from 10am-3pm. Super sunny today.

    Other good news in life: I close on my first property (a townhome) on Wednesday... very excited
    Last edited by AdamWW; Yesterday at 08:45 AM.
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  15. #165
    Making Vegan Gains AdamWW's Avatar
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