Peter from Scadinavia is ready to lose 100 lbs - here i go.

[lukepeter]

You are a giant- do the refeed at 3000kcal at least.

I don't do any cardio, it effects my weight loss rate, but so far not my fat loss rate(my lean mass is very precious to me) do you have other means of tracking your progress than the scale?

Consider changing from a full body routine to a 3 or 4 day split, then you big complexes won't deplete you and ruin your other lifts. I like to take a full day of rest after legs day then get back at it.

I do have a log, in my sig. Bodyspace tracks weight and progress pics weekly.

I have had great success on my 4 day split, with a moderate energy deficit- my frame is big (admittedly a dwarfish 6"4 to yours) so lean mass and bmr are relatively high considering I have been dieting for 6 months now.

I will be following your log eagerly, and looking forward to seeing what you can pack on your giant bone structure

Keep grinding man, I know how demoralising an injury can be, but the stronger and lighter you get the better it will be.

Luke

[PeteDenmark]

You are a giant- do the refeed at 3000kcal at least.

I don't do any cardio, it effects my weight loss rate, but so far not my fat loss rate(my lean mass is very precious to me) do you have other means of tracking your progress than the scale?

Consider changing from a full body routine to a 3 or 4 day split, then you big complexes won't deplete you and ruin your other lifts. I like to take a full day of rest after legs day then get back at it.

I do have a log, in my sig. Bodyspace tracks weight and progress pics weekly.

I have had great success on my 4 day split, with a moderate energy deficit- my frame is big (admittedly a dwarfish 6"4 to yours) so lean mass and bmr are relatively high considering I have been dieting for 6 months now.

I will be following your log eagerly, and looking forward to seeing what you can pack on your giant bone structure

Keep grinding man, I know how demoralising an injury can be, but the stronger and lighter you get the better it will be.

Luke

Thanks man. 6'4" - i didn't even know they made humans that small . I've just seen your pictures, and you look pretty swole and strong (and without cardio - cool), and 193 cm is still huge.

I can see from you macros that you are hovering around the 2200 cal mark a day, which i wouldn't exactly call a small deficit. But i looks like you're killing it in the gym anyway.

I am continually considering doing some kind of split routine, either push/pull/leg or upper/lower, so i agree with you, and it's coming. But for now the full body is easier to comply with for me. If my back acts up, so i have to skip a day, i don't have to play catch up.
I do at least leg curls and leg extensions every workout, and then i do home leg workouts on my rest days. My hip and back mobility is improving, and the pain has lessened, with the weight loss, and when i get closer to a "normal weight" i will up my cals, which should enable me to do a proper spilt.

Regarding eating 3000 cals for a "refeed" i'm a little scared to do so. Unlike regular people, i never just walk around during the day. Every time i'm not actively working on something, or walking the dog, i'm laying down. Everything is done in stages, and as soon as i feel my back giving out, i lay down. Even when out shopping with my wife, i often lay down i the middle of an aisle to stop back spasms.
So i'm missing out on a lot of "passive exercise" that regular people get, so i think my TDEE might be a bit lower than most peoples, but your advise i noted, and i will see how i feel, and take it into consideration. Maybe i'm just dreading the prospect of not losing weight .

I have no other way of tracking, than a measuring tape ( will post measurements), the scale and my gym progression. I benched 120 kg (once) without a spotter yesterday, so i am very pleased with that.

Thank for taking an interest man - i really nice to know somebody is following along.

[lukepeter]

Thanks man. 6'4" - i didn't even know they made humans that small . I've just seen your pictures, and you look pretty swole and strong (and without cardio - cool), and 193 cm is still huge.

I can see from you macros that you are hovering around the 2200 cal mark a day, which i wouldn't exactly call a small deficit. But i looks like you're killing it in the gym anyway.

I am continually considering doing some kind of split routine, either push/pull/leg or upper/lower, so i agree with you, and it's coming. But for now the full body is easier to comply with for me. If my back acts up, so i have to skip a day, i don't have to play catch up.
I do at least leg curls and leg extensions every workout, and then i do home leg workouts on my rest days. My hip and back mobility is improving, and the pain has lessened, with the weight loss, and when i get closer to a "normal weight" i will up my cals, which should enable me to do a proper spilt.

Regarding eating 3000 cals for a "refeed" i'm a little scared to do so. Unlike regular people, i never just walk around during the day. Every time i'm not actively working on something, or walking the dog, i'm laying down. Everything is done in stages, and as soon as i feel my back giving out, i lay down. Even when out shopping with my wife, i often lay down i the middle of an aisle to stop back spasms.
So i'm missing out on a lot of "passive exercise" that regular people get, so i think my TDEE might be a bit lower than most peoples, but your advise i noted, and i will see how i feel, and take it into consideration. Maybe i'm just dreading the prospect of not losing weight .

I have no other way of tracking, than a measuring tape ( will post measurements), the scale and my gym progression. I benched 120 kg (once) without a spotter yesterday, so i am very pleased with that.

Thank for taking an interest man - i really nice to know somebody is following along.

You have lost 20kg in the space of 2 months - with your activity level low you cannot afford to suffer starvation based metabolic depression. Using the 7000kcal to a kg of fat, you can certainly afford one week at 3000, you would probably only put on about half a kg once any waterweight from the carb refeed is gone. I know what it is like to dread seeing an increase on the scale, but long term health is just as important as the gratification and dopamine response that comes from seeing your mass change.

120 kg unassisted is a very respectable lift - assuming your core is able to handle it keep stretching yourself. I did, however, learn the hard way that maxing unaided can hurt you (I dislocated my right shoulder a bunch of times on the rugby field, then went back to heavy lifting a few weeks later - still carrying the damage with me now 2 years down the line).

Have you been through a decent rehab program for your back injury (biokineticist prescribed)? It must be rough having the threat of back spasm constantly hanging over your head - more credit to you that you have made it this far into your transformation.

lastly - be wary of scale obsession - its a short and slippery slope from healthy transformation into eating disorder. One week of hearty eating will not offset your progress by a statistically relevant amount.

Keep grinding man.

Luke

[PeteDenmark]

So it's time to get over my vanity, and post some pictures. I had thought about using my expensive DSLRs, lighting setup, and tweak it i post processing, but that's just vanity again.

So here they are from my old shi**y cell phone, with bad lighting, back hair and all.


Body measurements:

Week 1:

Weight 148,5 kg (323 lbs)
Waist 135 cm (53.1") (only measurement i took)

Week 10:

Weight 134,4 kg (297 lbs)
Waist bellybutton 124 cm (48.8")
Waist upper ab 115 cm (45.2")
Hips 121 cm (47.6")
Chest 132,5 cm (52.2")
Bicep relaxed 40 cm (15.7")
Bicep flex 45 cm (17.7")
Thigh middle 74 cm (29.1")
Neck 44 cm (17.3")

[lukepeter]

Strong progress!

[PeteDenmark]

You have lost 20kg in the space of 2 months - with your activity level low you cannot afford to suffer starvation based metabolic depression. Using the 7000kcal to a kg of fat, you can certainly afford one week at 3000, you would probably only put on about half a kg once any waterweight from the carb refeed is gone. I know what it is like to dread seeing an increase on the scale, but long term health is just as important as the gratification and dopamine response that comes from seeing your mass change.

120 kg unassisted is a very respectable lift - assuming your core is able to handle it keep stretching yourself. I did, however, learn the hard way that maxing unaided can hurt you (I dislocated my right shoulder a bunch of times on the rugby field, then went back to heavy lifting a few weeks later - still carrying the damage with me now 2 years down the line).

Have you been through a decent rehab program for your back injury (biokineticist prescribed)? It must be rough having the threat of back spasm constantly hanging over your head - more credit to you that you have made it this far into your transformation.

lastly - be wary of scale obsession - its a short and slippery slope from healthy transformation into eating disorder. One week of hearty eating will not offset your progress by a statistically relevant amount.

Keep grinding man.

Luke

I've lost 13 kg in 2½ months, but you are of course totally right. Even eating 1000 cal's over maintenance wouldn't result in more than 1 kg gain in a week. And eating let's say 3700 cals a day is a LOT of food, when eating whole grain, chicken and healthy fats.
So will go to the super marked today, and buy salmon, almonds, potatoes, tortilla wraps and some dark chocolate, and have a 3000 cal day .

Regarding rehab i have been probed, prodded, stretched and mobilized to within an inch of my life. Chiropractors, physio therapists, yoga instructors, acupuncturists, surgeons, personal trainers, and a special pain relief and mobility treatment "camp" of sorts. I have enough prescription drugs on hand, to kill an elephant (that i don't take, because it only relieves the symptoms). We don't have health professionals called biokineticist here (i've googled it, and have understood the meaning), so no - i havn't tried that specifically.

What i feel the most relief from though, is still good old fashioned swimming, stretching, bodybuilding and weight loss.

You are of course right (again) with the scale obsession. It's a bad metric for progression. It can be an indicator, but not an accurate one in the short term.
I guess the reason i focus on it, is because losing weight, is basically such a stupid endeavour. I eat food that tastes more bland than otherwise. I pay good money to go to a place with iron plates you lift up and down. I sit on a bike that isn't going anywhere. I talk about chicken breast and cale. I watch tweens on YouTube with low self esteem whos life goal is to lift things to have girls look at them. Basically i have to make the deeply uninteresting, interesting.
All this because i over a period have eaten the equivalent of 5cl of olive oil a day too much. When you make a mistake, but correct it, sometimes result are instant. But with this, even though you do everything right, it takes a loooong time to get "forgiveness".
I have accepted the fact that the results will be gradual, but i order to make the time it takes tolerable, i have to focus on the few things in the journey that i find "entertaining". One of those things is looking at the scale. 1 kg lost, is 1 kg less my spine has to support.

But yes - again you're right - i realize that i have to work up to getting a more holistic approach to this process. Doing things that are basically uncomfortable and/or boring, for the greater good. I think it's called "personal growth".
I'm monitoring my blood pressure, blood sugar, resting pulse, get's blood work done quite often (my dialysis nurse wife has all the cool equipment and connections to do so), and my metabolic rate has so far not suffered (now vs. when i started to loose weight).

But again - i will take your wise words into consideration, and reevaluate my cals. 1600 was never thought to be for a very long haul - just a kick start until i can fit into this pair of old sh**ty pant that i have, i for some reason love. A totally arbitrary goal - but again - i have to make the uninteresting, interesting.

Damn - it's hard to make myself understood - writing in english is a litlle limiting compared to writing in my own , but i hope you get my meaning.

Once more - thanks for taking an interest - i helps a lot.

Peter

[lukepeter]

To be honest, your English is far better than the majority of first language posters here - If you hadn't mentioned you were a foreign national(relative to my country) I would have assumed you were a native English speaker.

I get you about making the mundane extraordinary - thats why a forum like this is such a useful tool - its like a support group, a bunch of people that know what we go through, and have similar goals, that you can unashamedly talk to about what is a traditionally vain and boring topic for the general populace. Ordinarily you would have to grind away and in the end clap for yourself, then get back to grinding - now at least similar individuals can clap a bit for you also. I like your outlook - I am essentially still an infant, so I am not sure anything I type could be construed as wisdom - but we learn best by burning ourselves, I will occasionally share tales of my scars so others can avoid them

I think we all have the "I will wear these when I am leaner again pants" mine have been in a box for the last 5 years, hopefully a few more months and they will be allowed back in the closet.

Luke

[PeteDenmark]

To be honest, your English is far better than the majority of first language posters here - If you hadn't mentioned you were a foreign national(relative to my country) I would have assumed you were a native English speaker.

I get you about making the mundane extraordinary - thats why a forum like this is such a useful tool - its like a support group, a bunch of people that know what we go through, and have similar goals, that you can unashamedly talk to about what is a traditionally vain and boring topic for the general populace. Ordinarily you would have to grind away and in the end clap for yourself, then get back to grinding - now at least similar individuals can clap a bit for you also. I like your outlook - I am essentially still an infant, so I am not sure anything I type could be construed as wisdom - but we learn best by burning ourselves, I will occasionally share tales of my scars so others can avoid them

I think we all have the "I will wear these when I am leaner again pants" mine have been in a box for the last 5 years, hopefully a few more months and they will be allowed back in the closet.

Luke

Glad my english isn't a hindrance to understanding context - you are very kind.

Just to clarify - the pants i wan't to fit into aren't "skinny pants". They are more like "your are still kinda fat, but you can hide it you wear the right clothes" pants .

[PeteDenmark]

Weight 134,8 kg (297 lbs)

So yesterday was my first "refeed". In my book it doesn't mean eating junk food. As stated before, eating junk food as a morale booster, would be the same as having a cigarette, after having quit smoking, to celebrate my success. I still keep to my intermittent fasting eating schedule of eating between times 15.00 and 21.00.

I had lined up potatoes, tortilla wraps, peas, salmon, almonds, along with my chicken, peanut butter, oatmeal, eggs etc.

On the kitchen table, i laid out the amount of food i could eat to hit 3000 cals along with my macros. That way i didn't have to calculate each meal during the day. I ate until i felt really full, took a break, and as soon as i felt like i could eat again, i ate.
Turns out, i didn't eat it all. I mean - i could of course have forced myself to eat, or just eaten 3 spoons of peanut butter, and a ton of almonds, but that seemed counter productive. I felt really full, but had only eaten 2500 cals. 290 g protein, 170 g carbs and 70 g fat.
Even though i had eaten bread, i hadn't even gained any water weight this morning.

Now - i'm not going to restrict myself, apart from keeping to eating clean and within a time window, over the coming week, but i'm not going to force food in my face, in order to combat the dreaded "starvation mode".

This refeed isn't about my metabolism, it is about getting a mental boost, to keep up my weight loss habits, so i can get to a weight my lumbar region can support.

The whole "starvation mode" discussion is riddled with emotions, anecdotal evidence and misunderstandings, and i think the effect of said mode, is grossly overstated. Of course a caloric deficit will influence thyroid hormones, leptin and insulin. But by what percentage does one caloric deficit vs another affect the BMR in the long term? 3%? 5%?

When i read through different forums, i am still puzzled by the amount of misinformation lodged in a lot of peoples heads. Women won't lift heavy weight, because they don't wan't to look bulky. People doing 10 reps with weights they could have done 30 reps with. Folks doing a ton of gain eating cardio. 8000 cal cheat meal days. Thinking a 20 minute run will offset the calories from a family sized pizza. etc.

In my book it is just calories in vs calories out. When you lose weight, there is such a thing as adaptive thermogenesis. When you lose weight, your body doesn't need as much energy to sustain itself. Muscles needs more energy than fat, so do heavy resistance training and/or HIIT with progressive overload, as it will help you keep the muscle you've got. If you've starved yourself while doing a lot of cardio, your body will have used the amino acids it doesn't get through the food (aka the muscles) as energy, so if you lose compliance with the strict diet, and go back to the way you used to eat, you will gain all the fat back, and then some.

I'm preaching to the choir here - i know, But damn. We are just so good at underestimating how much we eat, and overestimating how much we move. Yes - those fish oil capsules you eat have 20 cals. No - the apple you eat, the fat you fry your food in, and the milk in your coffee isn't free. No - you haven't only eaten 800 cals, and still gained weight.

And then when we stall in a weight loss effort, the confirmation bias kicks in, and we surf the internet to find articles that frees us of personal responsibilities. Frustrated and ignorant people are a powerful force, and if we wan't it to be true that our weight loss efforts are stifled because we are eating too little, then we will find a way to make it so.

Yes - i believe that programs like "the biggest loser" where they ate 1000 cals a day, and did 6 hours of cardio, might have caused participants some metabolic harm - in the short term anyway. But none of us "casual starvers" are anywhere near that.

There are studies that show, that more people who lose weight fast, have kept it of after 5 years, than the slow and steady wins the race dieters.
I am a fat 43 year old man, and even after eating 1600 cals a day for 2½ months, my blood work shows, that all my levels are fine, as well as my blood pressure, resting pulse, and cholesterol. As long as i don't get lethargic and start skipping workouts because of it, i think it's all good.

I think it's a matter of compliance. Make a plan a stick with it if it works for you. Just don't forget to keep or even better, build muscle mass, so you have to eat protein, since the body can't make amino acids without proteins in the diet - then you'll be fine.

Sorry - this was supposed to just be a quick update, but turned into a full blown rant.

[anandagirl]

Wow, you are doing amazing! Fantastic progress for sure, you should be proud of yourself And what a great wife you have! I wish my husband would make things that fit my macros

[anandagirl]

And you diatribe is spot on! So many people say the want the end result, without doing any of the work. Without doing their own research. Without truly examining their own habits.

[PeteDenmark]

Wow, you are doing amazing! Fantastic progress for sure, you should be proud of yourself And what a great wife you have! I wish my husband would make things that fit my macros

Thank you very much - i really helps to hear.

And yes my wife is cool, despite hatin' on my biceps . Maybe your husband thinks you are too ripped by now, so he's trying to feed you simple carbs .

And you diatribe is spot on! So many people say the want the end result, without doing any of the work. Without doing their own research. Without truly examining their own habits.

Yeah - it's not even funny. Even when talking to some family members, they sit there and regurgitate diet dogmas from the 1930's, they have heard from a friend of a friend, and feel very secure in their knowledge . Well - i guess that is why this forum is so great - here people actually wants to learn most of the time.

Have a great day.

Peter

[PeteDenmark]

Weight today 134,7 kg (297 lbs), but i have lost 3 cm on my upper ab area, since the measurements i took 3 days ago? I'm sure i did it right, so i must have been bloated somehow.
This is very perplexing. I have eaten more carbs, and 1000 cals more a day, my weight stays unchanged, but my gut magically gets 3 cm's smaller? Wierd.

Anyway - didn't sleep too well. The dog had diarrhea, so he had to be let out every 2 hours during the night. Finally gave up and just got up.

The lack of sleep instantly made me come up with excuses in my head why i shouldn't train today:
My shoulder hurts a little, i can do it tomorrow, skipping one day won't matter, i'm over 40 so i have to watch my joints, etc.
The new self managed to convince my old self to go, with the inner agreement that i would just do low weight high rep accessory exercises - old fat Peter concurred reluctantly.

I carbed up on oat meal, and ate a couple of hard boiled eggs. That actually helped, 'cause when i got to the gym, i had gained a little energy, and had a decent workout:

4x8 incline dumbbell press (35 kg dumbbells)
3x8 down up cable flyes (can't remember - it was hole 5 in the weight stack )
4x8 lat pulldown (90 kg)
3x8 supported rows (2x50 kg)
3x10 rear delt cable flyes (can't remember)
3x8 rear delt dumbbell fly (12 kg dumbells)
3x20 overhead squats (just the bar so 20 kg) and 3x12 hyperextensions (bodyweight) superset

No side delt or arms - but it felt like i hit them plenty with the other exercises. That was a lot of sets sleep deprived, but the extra carbs helped, though i felt nauseous after. Had to sit down for 5 minutes to clear the head rush, before leaving the gym.

As we live in sweden, but commute to Denmark (2½ hours away) to work, my wife has made it so she can get 12 hour shifts at the hospital, and can sleep at the hospital, when having back to back shifts. This time she has 4 shifts in a row.

I hate it when she's gone for that many days in a row. When i have an off day like today, it sucks coming home to an empty house on a dark winter evening. I like my own company, but when she have had too many of those clumps of shifts in a short period of time, it gets a bit lonely. Having the dog here helps, but it's no substitute for her.

Today it would have been cool, if she was here, just to say: "hey hon' - good job on going to the gym, even though you didn't feel like it. Do you wan't coffee?".
And i would stand there with clenched fists, swole pectorals and a tear down my cheek, and reply: "a man's gotta do, what a man's gotta do"...

... Or maybe just say: "Thanks babe - coffee would be great".

I like posting in here though - when i have a thought or feel like i accomplished something, it is nice to share it, even though i have no idea if anybody is reading what i'm writing. So if anybody is following along, don't be afraid to say hi .

[jhc231991]

Hi I wanted to let you know Thank you for the advice I really appreciate it.

Yesterday was the first time at the gym that I tried PeteDenmarks gym routine...

Bench press or similar machine 3x10 reps
Cable rows 3x10 reps
Dumbell overhead press or similar machine 3x10
Cable lateral pulldown 3x10
Bodyweight squats or bodyweight lunges 2x10 + 1 set where you do as many reps as possible (amrap)
Some type of bicep curl machine or free weight 2x10
Triceps cable press down 2x10

...and it was so hard but once I was finished I was so proud. It took so much effort but I knew I could not give up because I had to post here and tell you how I did it. Right now my arms and shoulders hurt a little and my thighs and knees too. I hope that's normal. Do you know? Was I maybe doing it wrong? Also I drink the protein powder called PROTEIN EVOLUTION BY INTEK is that ok to drink before or after a workout does it help with recover or muscle gain?

[PeteDenmark]

Hi I wanted to let you know Thank you for the advice I really appreciate it.

Yesterday was the first time at the gym that I tried PeteDenmarks gym routine...

Bench press or similar machine 3x10 reps
Cable rows 3x10 reps
Dumbell overhead press or similar machine 3x10
Cable lateral pulldown 3x10
Bodyweight squats or bodyweight lunges 2x10 + 1 set where you do as many reps as possible (amrap)
Some type of bicep curl machine or free weight 2x10
Triceps cable press down 2x10

...and it was so hard but once I was finished I was so proud. It took so much effort but I knew I could not give up because I had to post here and tell you how I did it. Right now my arms and shoulders hurt a little and my thighs and knees too. I hope that's normal. Do you know? Was I maybe doing it wrong? Also I drink the protein powder called PROTEIN EVOLUTION BY INTEK is that ok to drink before or after a workout does it help with recover or muscle gain?

You're welcome. I answered your questions in your own log . You don't have to ask on both mine and yours . But congrats again.

[lukepeter]

Well done for training when exhausted, it seems like when life throws a curve ball at you the excuses seem to grow a life of their own and pop up in your mind unasked for.

You are moving very decent weights, it's great that your back is holding out at the intensity you are training.

Keep it up Peter, you continue to provide motivation.

[anandagirl]

I can imagine how lonely coming home to a dark house is. My hubs rarely leaves, but still. When he's gone, I don't even really cook. You're doing great though, so hang in. This too shall pass

[PeteDenmark]

Well done for training when exhausted, it seems like when life throws a curve ball at you the excuses seem to grow a life of their own and pop up in your mind unasked for.

You are moving very decent weights, it's great that your back is holding out at the intensity you are training.

Keep it up Peter, you continue to provide motivation.

Thanks for checking back in. Nice to know you are watching .

Yeah the weights - i find that as long as the exercise doesn't compress my spine directly, or i do unsupported row movements, i'm fine. I'm becoming one of those annoying gym-holes who uses equipment to do exercises they are not meant for, just to come up with ways around my annoying handicap .

Still weighing the pros and cons of a 3-4 day split routine vs. the full body.

With the full body, i can reduce the weights a little, since i will hit the muscle again after 48 hours, so the risk of snapping something is smaller. On the other hand it's less recovery time for my middle aged joints, and less hypertrophy on the day.
With the split, i would have to go more "balls to the wall", since i won't hit the muscle again for a week, so acute injuries would be more likely to happen, but more recovery time for the joints.

Hmm - i've tried to find people similar to me age wise, who's on a diet, but i can't seem to find anybody. I've found some 40+ year old bodybuilders, but from their physique, i suspect the where supplementing with more than whey.

From what i read about natural athletes, a classic bro-split isn't optimal, but push/pull 4 days a week should be good.

I have to give it some more thought.

I can imagine how lonely coming home to a dark house is. My hubs rarely leaves, but still. When he's gone, I don't even really cook. You're doing great though, so hang in. This too shall pass

Thank you for the pep talk - you are very sweet.

It's not all bad being alone. For example: There is nobody here to say "Hey - by the way - my car has had this weird crunching noise from the brakes going on for a couple of weeks - could you check it out?". That kind of thing sends cortisol levels through the roof, which is not conducive to a weight loss effort .

_______________________________________

Today's weight 134,4 kg (296.6 lbs) and my waist shrunk another cm. This refeed is strange.

Today was not a gym day. Took the dog for a 4 km walk, and my back didn't really hurt - awesome. That would not have been possible 3 months ago.

I'm still not eating above 2500 cals. As i'm writing this, it's 9.30 pm here, and i have only eaten 2150 cals, and i even had an ice cream. It was just one of those small 60 gram supermarked ones that comes in a box of 6, but it did nothing for me - go figure. Since we have our own free range chickens, i do however indulge in eggs. They really do taste better than the store bought ones.
Chicken breast and eggs - mother and child - how twisted.

What supplements, if any, do you take? I use whey in my oatmeal, 30 grams of 4:1:1 BCAA on training days, fish oil, selenium, and an assortment of vitamins. Contemplating starting the Creatine again.

[lukepeter]

Thanks for checking back in. Nice to know you are watching .

What supplements, if any, do you take? I use whey in my oatmeal, 30 grams of 4:1:1 BCAA on training days, fish oil, selenium, and an assortment of vitamins. Contemplating starting the Creatine again.

I use fish oil, a multivitamin (of questionable value, I know), a pre workout that provides caffeine, beta alanine, and creatine as its core components. I take additional beta alanine also(preworkout contains 2g, I take an additional 2g a day) and additional creatine on days when I have minimal diet based creatine ingestion. Whey to reach my macros relatively cheaply, and a roughly 50/50 protein/carb split meal replacement shake for breakfasts.

Chickens are a gift from the gods, they convert grain into protein at a fantastic rate.

Its great that your re-feed has remained so clean, have you seen any benefit in your workouts? It is also great that you are tracking your measurements diligently, as illustrated by your post above, your composition is still changing even if the weight is fairly stagnant - that's a win by all accounts.

Hitting each muscle group once a week seem like it is enough for me (modified push pull legs split), I dont get significant DOMS at this frequency, but if I miss an additional week (plant shutdown at work) then I am very sore again for 4 days once starting up again. I was always a supporter of more frequent training, usually 6 days on, one day off, but before re-starting my training I did some research on the limitations of the body w.r.t. natural lifting and weight training and ultimately came to the conclusion that 3-4 days a week was enough for the slow progression expected as a natty lifter, and the concept of doing deads and squats on the same day as bench press and rows was one that I found massively abhorrent (hence no full body routine for me).

Also, huge congrats on the progress re: back pain - it is cathartic to see benefits like reduced aches and pains as a result of your hard work, it injects a huge dose of motivation.

Keep doing what you are doing, its working.

[cherrygarcia80]

OM freakin G!!! Those progress transformation pics are amazing! What a turnaround in just 10 weeks! You're leaning out nicely, great job!

Wow, you hold your weight well but i guess it's because you are 6'6 tall wow!....I am on the other end of the spectrum as I am just 5'0 short haha. Oh well it definitely makes life interesting for sure because it would otherwise be boring if all humans were the same height.

Wishing you all the best as you journey on

[PeteDenmark]

OM freakin G!!! Those progress transformation pics are amazing! What a turnaround in just 10 weeks! You're leaning out nicely, great job!

Wow, you hold your weight well but i guess it's because you are 6'6 tall wow!....I am on the other end of the spectrum as I am just 5'0 short haha. Oh well it definitely makes life interesting for sure because it would otherwise be boring if all humans were the same height.

Wishing you all the best as you journey on

Wow - what a wonderful compliment. I guess most people on a diet suffer from body dysmorphia to some degree, so it's hard to see our own progress, even when looking at pictures. I tend to focus on the faults, instead of the progress, so i'm really glad you said i hold my weight well.
But yeah - it's much easier to deal with being overweight, and the subsequent weight loss when it's a smaller percentage of your bodyweight you have to lose, and the weight is distributed over a larger area .

I use fish oil, a multivitamin (of questionable value, I know), a pre workout that provides caffeine, beta alanine, and creatine as its core components. I take additional beta alanine also(preworkout contains 2g, I take an additional 2g a day) and additional creatine on days when I have minimal diet based creatine ingestion. Whey to reach my macros relatively cheaply, and a roughly 50/50 protein/carb split meal replacement shake for breakfasts.

Chickens are a gift from the gods, they convert grain into protein at a fantastic rate.

Its great that your re-feed has remained so clean, have you seen any benefit in your workouts? It is also great that you are tracking your measurements diligently, as illustrated by your post above, your composition is still changing even if the weight is fairly stagnant - that's a win by all accounts.

Hitting each muscle group once a week seem like it is enough for me (modified push pull legs split), I dont get significant DOMS at this frequency, but if I miss an additional week (plant shutdown at work) then I am very sore again for 4 days once starting up again. I was always a supporter of more frequent training, usually 6 days on, one day off, but before re-starting my training I did some research on the limitations of the body w.r.t. natural lifting and weight training and ultimately came to the conclusion that 3-4 days a week was enough for the slow progression expected as a natty lifter, and the concept of doing deads and squats on the same day as bench press and rows was one that I found massively abhorrent (hence no full body routine for me).

Also, huge congrats on the progress re: back pain - it is cathartic to see benefits like reduced aches and pains as a result of your hard work, it injects a huge dose of motivation.

Keep doing what you are doing, its working.

I got to try that pre workout. I think it's expensive, but if it can give an extra kick, it's worth it. When i was in my early twenties i sometimes used the ECA stack as a pre workout, when it was actually legal here, since you could get it prescribed from your doctor - that kicked ass. But i hear you can get a sort of similar stimulus from the good pre workouts - hmm - i'll keep it in mind.

I see where you are coming from, doing a split routine. As i can't squat and deadlift heavy, i don't get that load every time i lift - i can imagine that would be too much - especially with not enough food, and being a natty .

As for the effect of the extra food on my lifts, i feel it has helped. Being loaded up on on sweet carbs, has given me more stamina.
I have been struggling for a while with my reps. Like - i set out to do 3x10 of something. I do the two first sets without problems, but then in the third, i can't get past 4 reps, even if i quickly remove like 40% of the weight after those reps, i can't do the last 6. I just totally crash. Now - i think there is two factors here. One is obviously the lack of calories, but i think another contributing factor is, that i haven't done a deload since i started working out again. It's always in the 80-90% of max range i train, and i think my body needs a break, so i'll take a week just training a bit lighter, and also do totally different exercises, like focusing on arms, grip strength and traps.
So the idea is, that this week, i'm lifting as heavy as i can, to see where i'm at, and then i'll continue to eat 2500 cals one more week, while deloading.

As for the heavy lifts, i had a great workout:

Bench press: 15x60 kg warmup, 8x90 kg, 6x100 kg, 3x120kg, 5x120 kg with Mark Bell slingshot, 8x90 kg
Plate loaded row machine: 2x10 underhand, 2x10 neutral grip both 100 kg

And then i "crashed", and did standard 3x8 accessory work for the rest of the session with my "normal" weights: leg curls, leg extensions, cable cross, face pulls, lat raises, hammer curls and rope tricep.

But i thought the unassisted 120 kg "for reps" bench was waaaay in my future, so i'm pretty stoked. I think the slingshot has helped me with my form, but also the fact that my back is so much better, that i can actually achieve a small arch in my back, which shortens the range of motion, gets my traps and shoulder blades planted in the bench, and allows for a MUCH better leg drive.

I hurried home to tell my wife the good news. She was of course as underwhelmed as only a wife can be. You know: "Oh - is that good? Well that's nice then"... Bless her .

[lukepeter]

As for the heavy lifts, i had a great workout:

Bench press: 15x60 kg warmup, 8x90 kg, 6x100 kg, 3x120kg, 5x120 kg with Mark Bell slingshot, 8x90 kg
Plate loaded row machine: 2x10 underhand, 2x10 neutral grip both 100 kg...

...I hurried home to tell my wife the good news. She was of course as underwhelmed as only a wife can be. You know: "Oh - is that good? Well that's nice then"... Bless her .

Those are fantastic numbers Pete. Long arms can be a burden in this sport, but if these are the numbers you are posting after such a short time back in the gym (and from training at a deficit?!) Then I think you will be just fine, I imagine you would have been a formidable viking

Hehe, I am also rewarded with a "that's nice dear" when I excitedly tell my missus that I broke a PR. That's one of the core functions of this forum for me, having someone who can appreciate what you are going through, and how much of a win even a small strength increase is.

I was experiencing exactly the same thing as you re: the final set failure even with significant weights removed... I contemplated a deload, but for some reason it has just come right (I suspect that the more disciplined supplementation and changed macro splits helped somewhat, its all about the food ). How long have you been lifting heavy since you started up again?

[PeteDenmark]

I was experiencing exactly the same thing as you re: the final set failure even with significant weights removed... I contemplated a deload, but for some reason it has just come right (I suspect that the more disciplined supplementation and changed macro splits helped somewhat, its all about the food ). How long have you been lifting heavy since you started up again?

I've been going "hard" for 4 months, which isn't that long, but with the deficit, and my age, it makes sense, that hitting the muscles 3-4 a week (every second day) does create fatigue that i push in front of me. Yes - i could plan my meals around my lifts, and try to start creatine again (which i think would help), but in the big picture, i don't really see a downside to a week of lighter weights, and new exercises.

I know deloading is not necessarily scientifically proven, but giving the CNS a short break can't be all bad. But hey - since we are in somewhat the same bracket size and strength wise, i can do the experiment, and let you know .

[lukepeter]

You are right, I think your routine will cause exhaustion much faster than a typical split - especially since you are not holding back on the weights.

High volume, high intensity, aggressive energy deficit, somewhat advanced age... You have certainly earned a deload week I will always advocate slow steady progress and treating ones body gently during what is essentially a determined starvation. Make the most of the rest (relatively speaking) week.

[PeteDenmark]

You have certainly earned a deload week I will always advocate slow steady progress and treating ones body gently during what is essentially a determined starvation. Make the most of the rest (relatively speaking) week.

Thanks Luke - i haven't ruled out a upper/lower split, and maybe i will eat 2000 calories after this refeed, and se how i progress with that.

your talk about doing squats and deadlift, really made me miss those. Not so much because i like doing them, but because in a weight loss effort, those exercises are just so helpful. So i went on a internet search to see if there was anything i could do about it, and bumped into an article talking about degenerative disc decease, herniated discs and the Sumo Deadlift.

https://breakingmuscle.com/learn/kee...umbar-injuries

Now this is some bro science at its finest, but it still struck a chord with me, so decided i was going to give it a go today.
I put on gear, so i looked like a damn christmas tree, with knee sleeves, weight belt and wrist straps. I loaded up 70 kg, which i feel was conservative enough, and did a set of 10.
Wow - my body had a pretty strong reaction. Not because of pain - more visceral. It was like alarm bells went off in my brain, telling mt CNS that i was probably going to die .
The weight rally wasn't heavy, but nevertheless i took a 5 minute break, doing a bit of foam rolling, and then did 3 more sets, without problems. After finishing, i hurried over to the lat pulldown doing 4 heavy sets, to "decompress" my spine, just as a precaution.

I'm now home, and, as of now, there have been no adverse effect from the Sumo's. That is soooo cool. I'm not going to mess around with anything heavier than 100 kg MAX for the foreseeable future, and i'm going to stick with the 70 kg for at least a month, just doing deadlift once a week. But if it works out, it would be a HUGE step forward for me, and in the effort to strengthen my posterior chain.

Oh - and my body weight is still stuck at 134,5 kg.

[Denfete]

Subscribed!

[PeteDenmark]

Subscribed!

Thank man . I've subbed to yours as well.

[lukepeter]

That's great news Peter!

The cautious approach you are using is the prudent one (though for most humans 70kg would not be considered a tentative start ), the human body is a fantastic machine - it wouldn't surprise me if the additional strengthening of your lumbar chain enables you to go heavier than 100kg in time.

What was the nature of your back break - your first post does not mention what was damaged...

I am not sure if your PTSD was linked with the attack or with the resulting injury, if it is the latter then I am sure a return to deadlifting will have psychological benefits as well as physical. I really hope your back holds out well in the days to come.

Luke

[anandagirl]

It's not all bad being alone. For example: There is nobody here to say "Hey - by the way - my car has had this weird crunching noise from the brakes going on for a couple of weeks - could you check it out?". That kind of thing sends cortisol levels through the roof, which is not conducive to a weight loss effort .

Isn't THAT the truth! Gotta love 'em, but spouses = stress often

What supplements, if any, do you take? I use whey in my oatmeal, 30 grams of 4:1:1 BCAA on training days, fish oil, selenium, and an assortment of vitamins. Contemplating starting the Creatine again.

I take fish oil, multivitamin, creatine and fill in my protein macros and sweets cravings with whey powder. I also have a few Pre-workouts that I've won here and there in supplement giveaways, but those aren't necessary for me

Those are fantastic numbers Pete. Long arms can be a burden in this sport, but if these are the numbers you are posting after such a short time back in the gym (and from training at a deficit?!) Then I think you will be just fine, I imagine you would have been a formidable viking

Hehe, I am also rewarded with a "that's nice dear" when I excitedly tell my missus that I broke a PR. That's one of the core functions of this forum for me, having someone who can appreciate what you are going through, and how much of a win even a small strength increase is.

Yes, having long limbs does not help with lift numbers, and my hubs couldn't care less either

[PeteDenmark]

That's great news Peter!

The cautious approach you are using is the prudent one (though for most humans 70kg would not be considered a tentative start ), the human body is a fantastic machine - it wouldn't surprise me if the additional strengthening of your lumbar chain enables you to go heavier than 100kg in time.

What was the nature of your back break - your first post does not mention what was damaged...

I am not sure if your PTSD was linked with the attack or with the resulting injury, if it is the latter then I am sure a return to deadlifting will have psychological benefits as well as physical. I really hope your back holds out well in the days to come.

Luke

I wasn't trying display false modesty when i wrote 70 kg was conservative. I realize it's a real weight, but you know how it is when trying to get into position on a deadlift, especially sumo. You try to get your shins as close to vertical as you can, by kind of sitting back, taking the slack out of the bar. Well - i'm so heavy, that if i do that with less than 70 kg, the weight lifts of, from shear leverage .
So 70 kg was in some way the lowest i could go, and maintain a SOMEWHAT proper form. It was still quite terrible, with a little to much rounding of the upper back, and it didn't help any, that my head was turned, so i could watch myself in the mirror from the side, making sure my lumbar region didn't dip or round over .

My back injury was, that i broke and fractured a facet in my L4 and L5 vertebrae. Vertebrae starts with number L5 from the bottom, and the disc between the pelvis and the L5 is called S1/L5. The discs between S1, L5 and L4, L3 herniated. Things didn't heal quite right, and the discs degenerated, and i'm one of the people who gets pain from this (some don't for some reason), and have less stability, combined with less flexibility.

The attack was what triggered the PTSD, but that was the last incident of many. That attack was just the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. The resulting injury didn't help, since i couldn't use building my physique, as a way to cope with the stress.
I'm quite sure, that if i can get into a shape that vaguely reminds me of my former self, i would be a big boost to my feeling of identity, and deads would certainly help in that direction. Still no "wrong" pain in my back, so it might just happen .

Thanks for asking Luke.