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  1. #811
    'hypertrophy' bro HeMB's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by coeur View Post
    Ok then, I think I’m going to be starting the U/L next week, but I’m concerned about the dumbbell exercises. There is no way I’m going to jump 10 lbs on incline DB press and lateral raises... without significantly lowering the rep range. Is that expected? I’d be at the same weight for ages. And I can’t really see the benefit of 5 rep lateral raises.
    Does not your gym have small dumbbells like 2 - 3 - 4 kg etc.?

    Anyway, you can just increase rep range e.g. do 3x12 for laterals or even 3x15. Same with db press.
    That's what I do
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  2. #812
    Registered User coeur's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HeMB View Post
    Does not your gym have small dumbbells like 2 - 3 - 4 kg etc.?

    Anyway, you can just increase rep range e.g. do 3x12 for laterals or even 3x15. Same with db press.
    That's what I do
    Maybe? It’s a huge gym with equipment haphazardly scattered everywhere. But I can do raises with 20s so it wouldn’t help me there. So you’re thinking working up to a 45 rep total, adding weight, knocking it down to say... 24 reps minimum, wash and repeat? Sounds feasible.

    I’m assuming subbing in barbell incline and one-arm supported lateral raises or cable raises isn’t an option?
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  3. #813
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    Gonna start full body version. Seeing workout 1 and 3 are basically same, any reason to not do either of following

    1-2-1-2 or 1-2-3-2-1-2-3-2 etc etc

    So it works quads evenly with hammy’s?
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  4. #814
    Registered User coeur's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TheViking1992 View Post
    If you've been making steady progress, I doubt any of these routines is suitable for you. They're made for novices and early intermediates... not someone with years of lifting under the belt.
    Whoa just came across this.Would these programs not be suitable for me if I’ve been lifting for 3.5 years, made a lot of progress but have been stagnating for the last year? I’d be coming off Fierce 5 Intermediate U/L, which seems not to be working for me anymore (made gains, stopped making gains, been on it since Feb or March ‘17) Your U/L looks fun and like it would be a nice break from all of the high-intensity/low rep work on F5.

    Also, if we’re doing this... why are high-volume squats before low-volume deadlifts in lower A on the U/L? I feel like I’d get more out of DLing first, including my usual 6 ramp-up sets for that heavy work. And I’m definitely partial to DL over RDL.
    Last edited by coeur; 10-31-2018 at 07:53 AM.
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  5. #815
    'hypertrophy' bro HeMB's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by coeur View Post
    Maybe? It’s a huge gym with equipment haphazardly scattered everywhere. But I can do raises with 20s so it wouldn’t help me there. So you’re thinking working up to a 45 rep total, adding weight, knocking it down to say... 24 reps minimum, wash and repeat? Sounds feasible.

    I’m assuming subbing in barbell incline and one-arm supported lateral raises or cable raises isn’t an option?
    yes, I meant that.

    barbell incline would not work IMO, but the laterals are ok.

    For your suitability for the program, TheVIking may explain better,
    but it heavily depends on your BW, S/B/D numbers.
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  6. #816
    Registered User coeur's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HeMB View Post
    yes, I meant that.

    barbell incline would not work IMO, but the laterals are ok.

    For your suitability for the program, TheVIking may explain better,
    but it heavily depends on your BW, S/B/D numbers.
    My numbers have moved up and down due to stalling and resetting, as I’ve been getting stuck at the same (ish) weights for the past year, so I don’t know where I technically stand. I’m still in the middle of backtracking to correct my form which... hasn’t been so great. But for 5 rep current numbers and maxes,

    Bench 125 (max 132.5)
    Squat 205 (max 235)
    Deadlift 240 (max 275)

    Height 5’2”, BW 139 (female if it matters)

    Edit: estimated 1RMs (per my training log app) are Bench 145 lbs, Squat 238 lbs, DL 276 lbs. Never tested them though.

    I’m about to jump into PT to solve some back issues that have been the culprit behind bad squat and DL form, and I thought that more high vol, relatively low weight could help me without sacrificing progress.
    Last edited by coeur; 11-01-2018 at 09:01 PM.
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  7. #817
    Registered User reignman76's Avatar
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    So it looks like the total volume increases as you go from the 3 to 4 to 5 day a week programs. Would the logical progression be to start at the 3 day a week full body and work your way up to the 5 day split?
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  8. #818
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    Originally Posted by reignman76 View Post
    So it looks like the total volume increases as you go from the 3 to 4 to 5 day a week programs. Would the logical progression be to start at the 3 day a week full body and work your way up to the 5 day split?
    Well yeah, depending on the weight your lifting on bench, squat and deadlift currently.
    Current Routine: Viking Barebone Full Body
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  9. #819
    Registered User coeur's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by coeur View Post
    My numbers have moved up and down due to stalling and resetting, as I’ve been getting stuck at the same (ish) weights for the past year, so I don’t know where I technically stand. I’m still in the middle of backtracking to correct my form which... hasn’t been so great. But for 5 rep current numbers and maxes,

    Bench 125 (been at 132.5)
    Squat 205 (been at 235)
    Deadlift 240 (been at 275)

    Height 5’2”, BW 139 (female if it matters)

    Edit: estimated 1RMs (per my training log app) are Bench 145 lbs, Squat 238 lbs, DL 276 lbs. Never tested them though.

    I’m about to jump into PT to solve some back issues that have been the culprit behind bad squat and DL form, and I thought that more high vol, relatively low weight could help me without sacrificing progress.
    Just checked via some charts online, and apparently I’m a mid-intermediate, maybe mid-late on squats. I haven’t made any progress strength-wise for a long time (with the exception of leg press and lat pulldowns somehow, and reps increased on barbell curl), and I haven’t gained any weight in over a year (tho I’ve lost some BF and look much more lean/balanced than I did before starting Fierce 5 U/L). I’ve increased my calories by over 300 over that time and still, very little has changed. Sleep is on point. I’m not sure if it would be wise for me to get on a program built on linear progression, but I really want to try Bare Bones as I haven’t yet trained (properly) solely for mass. I wonder if my recovery will improve if I’m not trying to throw high intensity in the mix. But this is novice/early intermediate so I don’t know...
    Last edited by coeur; 11-03-2018 at 10:13 PM.
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  10. #820
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    After such work i will die
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  11. #821
    Registered User coeur's Avatar
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    Okay, started the U/L anyway lol. Strangely felt I did less overall work than F5 (I go by pump and post-workout body temp), but that may be because I lowballed some of the lifts and hit my target reps on the first try. But this was just one day... legs are tomorrow, and I fully expect to be worked out to the max. We’ll see how this goes.

    Just a Q though... why are the high intensity/low rep deadlifts placed after high volume squats, and why are they placed a day after having done a lot of pulling on Upper A? I’ve always made sure to have a day of rest before and after heavy deads. And always done them first, of course. (RDLs instead is no option )
    Last edited by coeur; 11-04-2018 at 11:01 PM.
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  12. #822
    Registered User coeur's Avatar
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    Okay, Lower day 1 down. Hack squats are quite possibly the most awkward movement I’ve ever performed. I’m too short for the machine, so I have to use a barbell. Is it okay for me to set up with the bar on the hooks behind me rather than on the floor? If I start with the bar on the floor, I’m so low that I can’t properly rise. I thought that using the larger bumper plates could solve this, but the bar just hits the floor behind me. Any plate larger than a 10 causes this to happen, so I’m just going to have to stack smaller plates, I think.
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  13. #823
    Registered User coeur's Avatar
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    ~More questions~ Can barbell shrugs = smith machine shrugs?
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  14. #824
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    does anyone get results with this program ?

    Which version is intermediate program ? upper lower ?
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  15. #825
    Registered User coeur's Avatar
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    Moar

    Questions

    Does the progression carry over from session 1 to session 2 on the U/L? For example, if I get all my bench press reps on Upper 1, do I increase the weight on Upper 2 or rep out the same weight on 2?
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    Isnt this u/l alot more work than f5 ? XD
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  17. #827
    Registered User james-m's Avatar
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    Upper lower upper lower modified

    So I modified the
    upper, lower, rest, upper, lower,
    rest, rest,

    I moved the upper lower push exercises together and vise versa to create...
    UPPER LOWER PUSH
    UPPER LOWER PULL

    Question,
    Will this be any less effective as the original structure ?
    This is the type of workout I enjoy most and currently seeking out a workout to jump on next week after my current Deload week

    Push
    •Military Press - 3 sets - 25 reps
    •Bench Press - 4 sets - 32 reps
    •Incline DB Press - 3 sets - 30 reps
    •Back Squat - 4 sets - 32 reps
    •Single-leg Leg Press - 3 sets - 35 reps
    •Abs/Calves Superset - 3 sets each - 40 reps each

    Pull
    •Pullups - 3 sets - 30 reps
    •Barbell Row - 4 sets - 32 reps
    •DB Rows - 3 sets - 30 reps
    •Facepulls - 3 sets - 30 reps each
    •Romanian DL - 3 sets -
    •Lying Leg Curls - 3 sets - 30 reps
    •EZ Bar preacher curl - 3 sets -

    Push
    •Back Squat - 4 sets - 32 reps
    •Leg Press - 3 sets - 30 reps
    •Bench Press - 4 sets - 32 reps
    •Military Press - 3 sets - 25 reps
    •Overhead Cable Exte- 3 sets - 35 reps
    •Leg extensions - 3 sets - 35 reps
    •Abs/Calves
    Superset - 3 sets each - 40 reps each

    Pull
    •Romanian DL - 3 sets - 30 reps
    •Leg Curls - 3 sets- 35 reps each
    -(Glute bridge)?
    •Barbell Row - 4 sets - 32 reps
    •Pullups - 3 sets - 30 reps
    •Lateral Raises/Barbell Shrugs
    -3 supersets- 30 reps each
    •Barbell Curl/Skull-crushers
    -3 supersets - 30 reps each


    This would be M/T REST T/F REST REST
    Last edited by james-m; 11-08-2018 at 03:48 PM.
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  18. #828
    Registered User coeur's Avatar
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    It’s me, ya boy, back with more questions (will they ever be answered? Only time will tell)

    I’m trying to set up a personal training session to work on my deadlifts. He says we’re going to do “plank deadlifts,” so I’ll be pulling and stopping half-way to hold it as long as possible. There’ll also be some chin-ups involved. When should I fit this into the U/L routine? I wanted to set it up on Lower 1 and skip deadlifts but still do squats and etc., but would chin-ups a day after Upper 1 be a bad idea? When would it be optimal to set this up within the routine?
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  19. #829
    Registered User Meyzu91's Avatar
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    Got 2 simple questions regarding the U/L

    1. Can i do pullups say if i only get 20 reps on 3 sets with my bodyweight? since the given rep range for 3 sets is 30

    2. There is only bench for chest on the 2nd upper day, does the chest really get enough volume compared to back/shoulders?
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    Originally Posted by Meyzu91 View Post
    Got 2 simple questions regarding the U/L

    1. Can i do pullups say if i only get 20 reps on 3 sets with my bodyweight? since the given rep range for 3 sets is 30

    2. There is only bench for chest on the 2nd upper day, does the chest really get enough volume compared to back/shoulders?
    1. You can always add in 1 or 2 more sets to get to the 30 or just do Lat pull down as it’s a similar movement. Or use the pull up machine which assists you, over time you will be able to meet the rep range though

    2. I didn’t feel I was hitting my chest enough so I have now subbed bench for DB bench on both days and added in DB incline on both days with a couple more chest excersizes. Just keep the structure of the workout and add in additional excersizes for the body parts you would like to grow more. I’ve added at least 2-3 excersizes for both upper days and still finish at the gym within just over an hour
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  21. #831
    Registered User Meyzu91's Avatar
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    The workouts are tough as they are, IL just add in DB Incline on the 2nd day as well

    Is theviking1992 still active here? I'd love to hear his reasoning on only having bench as a chest exercise on the 2nd upper day.
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    Originally Posted by Meyzu91 View Post
    The workouts are tough as they are, IL just add in DB Incline on the 2nd day as well

    Is theviking1992 still active here? I'd love to hear his reasoning on only having bench as a chest exercise on the 2nd upper day.
    Don't forget that ohp works chest as well bringing the total weekly volume for chest to 17 sets per week (optimal for early intermediates and up).
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  23. #833
    Banned Megaman204's Avatar
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    Guys,

    If my bench press weight for the 32 reps ( I aim for 4x8 ) is let's say 85 kilograms and I do 7 - 6 -6 - 5 , should I stay with this weight until I manage 8-8-8-8 or to lower the weight ?
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    Registered User coeur's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Megaman204 View Post
    Guys,

    If my bench press weight for the 32 reps ( I aim for 4x8 ) is let's say 85 kilograms and I do 7 - 6 -6 - 5 , should I stay with this weight until I manage 8-8-8-8 or to lower the weight ?
    Curious about this myself. The program dictates that you simply stick with a given weight until you can do the total 32 reps, and to lower the weight if you fail to increase reps in 3 weeks. But if you’re lifting a weight that you can only get 24 with, is it reasonable to expect that you’ll be able to achieve 32 in any reasonable amount of time, or at all? Like, are you using too high of a weight to begin with at that much of a discrepancy?

    Personally, I like to make very small increases (2.5 lbs for upper body, 5 for lower) to avoid this. Although, I thought about increasing the target reps on a given weight for some lifts, say 30 instead of 25. I’ve just started the program, though, and I haven’t felt the need to do this yet.

    Also, as far as lowering the weight is concerned, is 90% about right? What about 95%... too little?
    Last edited by coeur; 11-22-2018 at 06:35 PM.
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    Does anyone really look at this thread anymore?

    Anyway, would it be okay if I ran the U/L like Upper/rest/lower/rest/Upper/lower/rest? At least occasionally when my schedule calls for it? Man the 2 day rest period is killing me...
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  26. #836
    Proud dad IH8RICE's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BigPaPa111 View Post
    After such work i will die
    You’d be surprised how adaptable the body is. I felt like hell for a few weeks but now I breeze through without feeling like I’m going to die. Just stick with it.
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  27. #837
    Registered User coeur's Avatar
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    My right bicep is noticeably smaller than my left (I’m right-dominant but I have some pulling related imbalances likely due to injuries). Would it negatively impact my recovery to do 3 extra sets of concentration curls on just that arm per week (probably Upper 2 on the U/L), 8 reps per? I can even take it lighter than that and do 12-15, if it would help.

    It’s hard to tell myself but I’m seeing that my lower trap, rear felt and mid back on the left side are smaller too (which makes sense). So I thought about doing a couple extra sets of DB rows on my left, though at this point I’m worried about trying to specialize this too much resulting in more imbalances.
    Last edited by coeur; 11-30-2018 at 01:56 PM.
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    Registered User BoBSMVW's Avatar
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    5 9
    172.4
    20 y/o
    Can I use the 5 day routine with these as my current lifts?
    Bench 3x5 230
    Squat 3x6 345
    Military 4x6 180
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  29. #839
    Registered User xtinc's Avatar
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    Hey I'm new so this baffles me however my squat looks like this I have no idea what this is progression or what but input would be great

    Squat 3 x 10 @ 20kg(bar)
    Squat 3 x 8 @ 40kg
    Squat 3 x 8 @ 50kg
    Squat 3 x 8 @ 60kg
    Squat 5 x 5 @ 70kg
    Squat 2 x 3 @ 80kg (failure first attempt at this weight)

    Leg press 3 x 10 @ 73kg
    Leg extensions 3 x 10 @  41kg
    Peone leg curl 3 x 10 @ 32kg
    Sled push 20kg @ 15m x 4
    Kettle bell squat 3 x 10 @ 16kg
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