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  1. #121
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    The whole software thing really pisses me off honestly, I had a really nice LG player that I basically had to toss in the trash because LG discontinued its support and the software was so dated it wouldn't play current Blu Rays. Never heard of such a thing happening before then, last LG product I have bought since...
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  2. #122
    Registered User KBKB's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Synthetickiller View Post
    That's the only issue with getting cheaper cases. I can't blame you. Hell, I said it was a good idea. It's just difficult getting one on the cheap.
    Since it's not going to see high workloads, just make sure to drop in that 120mm intake fan at the bottom. I think the most important fan, actually is that 92mm fan that mounts to the bracket. I think you said it won't work. Why is that? It shouldn't interfere with an add on card or the rear fan on hot swap bay. If you can just place that fan at heatsink height, you're set. That's more than enough air moving. If you're worried about temps, upgrade to something better than the stock fan. Coolermaster makes a few good fans. Almost anything that's Gentle Typhoon brand is solid. The Enermax Magma might be a good fan to go with as well. I own two of the 80mm versions & they do an excellent job of moving air in a fairly straight line. They are half the price of the GT (Gentle Typhoon). My money would probably go towards the GT as they are just amazing fans.
    I got the Supermicro mobile racks (hot swap bays) installed last night. My local hardware store didn't have a deep enough C clamp; I ended up ordering one from Amazon. It made quick work of bending the metal tabs (upon which an optical drive would normally rest) flat.

    The Mobile racks extend fairly deep into the case, so deep in fact, that there isn't space to install a second 120mm fan at the top. I had some spare 80mm fans from long ago. I installed one at the top using ventilation holes and washers. I'm rethinking that now; I'll probably take it out and do the same kind of thing using the largest fan that I can find that'll fit. I may do something similar for air intake at the bottom. (See below.)

    I've been considering this Power Supply:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817438013

    It's a 1000W Platinum supply from EVGA.

    Anyway, it extends far enough towards the front of the case (from the back, obviously) that it'll preclude installation of the lower 120mm fan. I'll try to find a way to mount a smaller fan in that location.

    In answer to your question regarding the fan on the VGA bracket, that one should work okay. In fact, I think this is a good idea to help keep the HBA chipset cool.

    But it's no go on the front-most intake fan; I have one of the Supermicro mobile racks mounted in that location. OTOH, each mobile rack has its own fan, so that'll help with air intake from the front somewhat. (Though it may be hot air after passing by the drives...)

    I've decided to start with eight 8TB drives in a RAID-Z3 VDEV. That'll provide approximately 40GB of storage. I'll distribute them throughout the bays so that they're not all clustered together.

    I've been reading FreeBSD Mastery: ZFS. It has some good tips on labeling the drives to make it easier to locate and replace a failed drive.
    Last edited by KBKB; 08-29-2016 at 09:28 AM.
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  3. #123
    Registered User KBKB's Avatar
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    SK,

    You mentioned that you have a Supermicro mobile rack.

    It has two power connectors, which are the older Molex 4-pin connectors (as opposed to the newer SATA power connectors).

    I've checked the manual and have done a quick Google search, but have not been able to determine if both of these have to be connected.

    I'm thinking that they provided two connectors for attachment to redundant power supplies.

    I'll most likely apply power to both of them just to be on the safe side, but I've noticed that power supplies these days don't come with cables having as many molex connectors as they used to. I'll work around this problem by using SATA power cables from the power supply along with as many as I need of these adapters:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812816038
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  4. #124
    Can't break what's broken Synthetickiller's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by urbanlifter View Post
    The whole software thing really pisses me off honestly, I had a really nice LG player that I basically had to toss in the trash because LG discontinued its support and the software was so dated it wouldn't play current Blu Rays. Never heard of such a thing happening before then, last LG product I have bought since...
    This is why piracy exists.
    Sony does a pretty good job with keeping their Playstations up to date, but very few people want to use it as their BR player.
    LG is good for IPS screens & that's just about it, imho.

    Originally Posted by KBKB View Post
    I got the Supermicro mobile racks (hot swap bays) installed last night. My local hardware store didn't have a deep enough C clamp; I ended up ordering one from Amazon. It made quick work of bending the metal tabs (upon which an optical drive would normally rest) flat.

    The Mobile racks extend fairly deep into the case, so deep in fact, that there isn't space to install a second 120mm fan at the top. I had some spare 80mm fans from long ago. I installed one at the top using ventilation holes and washers. I'm rethinking that now; I'll probably take it out and do the same kind of thing using the largest fan that I can find that'll fit. I may do something similar for air intake at the bottom. (See below.)

    I've been considering this Power Supply:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817438013

    It's a 1000W Platinum supply from EVGA.

    Anyway, it extends far enough towards the front of the case (from the back, obviously) that it'll preclude installation of the lower 120mm fan. I'll try to find a way to mount a smaller fan in that location.

    In answer to your question regarding the fan on the VGA bracket, that one should work okay. In fact, I think this is a good idea to help keep the HBA chipset cool.

    But it's no go on the front-most intake fan; I have one of the Supermicro mobile racks mounted in that location. OTOH, each mobile rack has its own fan, so that'll help with air intake from the front somewhat. (Though it may be hot air after passing by the drives...)

    I've decided to start with eight 8TB drives in a RAID-Z3 VDEV. That'll provide approximately 40GB of storage. I'll distribute them throughout the bays so that they're not all clustered together.

    I've been reading FreeBSD Mastery: ZFS. It has some good tips on labeling the drives to make it easier to locate and replace a failed drive.
    That PSU is overkill. Please don't waste the money.
    I have a 850w PSU in my gaming rig that, at one time, ran dual GTX 570s... both had dual 8 pin power connectors & they pulled 480w (240w each) alone... so the system was pulling 650w on load at max. You're talking about 8 drives pulling 12w max, each... so 96w, lol. I have 8 drives & my 550w is overkill. I really need a kill-a-watt to measure what it pulls from the wall. I'd say that you need nothing over 650w. I have no doubt that I can drop in an extra 3 HDDs and have no issue.

    This is the PSU I'd get if I were to run 15 drives:
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-054-_-Product

    I promise you, even 650w is overkill. I probably could get away 450w.

    Throw the $65 you save towards fans to keep the rig cool. That's money well spent in comparison.

    Originally Posted by KBKB View Post
    SK,

    You mentioned that you have a Supermicro mobile rack.

    It has two power connectors, which are the older Molex 4-pin connectors (as opposed to the newer SATA power connectors).

    I've checked the manual and have done a quick Google search, but have not been able to determine if both of these have to be connected.

    I'm thinking that they provided two connectors for attachment to redundant power supplies.

    I'll most likely apply power to both of them just to be on the safe side, but I've noticed that power supplies these days don't come with cables having as many molex connectors as they used to. I'll work around this problem by using SATA power cables from the power supply along with as many as I need of these adapters:

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812816038
    I'm powering 4 drives off of a single 4 port sata power splitter in my current server. The hot swap bay "can" handle 1 for 5 drives (especially if they are 5400 rpm), but I'd plug in both, especially if the cooling fan is running off of the 2 sata ports. That's just to ensure that there's no power dip for the drives.

    That adapter would work.
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  5. #125
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    There is one argument going for "overkill" power supplies. The load on the power supply would be a lot less, and it would perform more efficiently, and it will last longer. You still use less energy. Or the difference would be marginal.

    If the load on the PSU is close to, or exceeds its rating, it will die faster. Except maybe those gold or platinum rated ones.

    I think of them like ACs (Air Conditioners) or all types of cooling equipment. The big horsepower ones cool the room faster, and go to "low power" mode for maintenance faster. And of course, keep the room sealed or close the doors, so you don't waste sending out cold air to the outside.
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  6. #126
    Registered User KBKB's Avatar
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    I came up with the 1000W PSU size after reading through this PSU sizing guide:

    https://forums.freenas.org/index.php...uidance.38811/

    The problem, as described there, is that drives require more power when spinning up. They suggest allowing for 35W per drive for spin-up. Then you have to add in power for fans, motherboard, host bus adapters, CPU, etc.

    I just did the calculations again and end up with 879W. But they recommend multiplying that number by 1.2, which ends up being 1098.75. That being the case, 1000W seems about right.

    I could go for a smaller supply by staggering spin-up.
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  7. #127
    Registered User urbanlifter's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Synthetickiller View Post
    This is why piracy exists.
    Sony does a pretty good job with keeping their Playstations up to date, but very few people want to use it as their BR player.
    LG is good for IPS screens & that's just about it, imho.
    IMO Blu Rays will go by the way of the dinosaur in the next 10 years, I BARELY use mine anymore due to having a smart TV. Picture quality is fantastic, less cable management, I don't have to mess around with searching for disc's, or worry about them getting scratched beyond repair.
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  8. #128
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    I'm thinking the price of blank Blu Rays will come down, and it will last as long as the next "version" of optical writable storage comes out. If it's cheap, it will be used for backup or archival purposes.

    There's no point "converting" my CD-Rs to DVD-Rs, but to BR-Rs it might be worth it as long as the price per GB is less. People still use CD-Rs today because they're good for cheap and relatively small data.
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  9. #129
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    Originally Posted by Synthetickiller View Post

    The first thing I would do is hook it up to a different HDMI port on the receiver & see if you can replicate the issue.
    The second thing would be to directly hook it up to the TV & see if that happens again.

    If that doesn't diagnose the issue, test both cables going into the TV directly.

    If none of those things fix it, report back & i'll see what I can come up with.
    Update to these tests:

    1. I changed inputs on the receiver and same thing happens with BR's - Sound but no dialogue. I tried all possible inputs using the same HDMI cord (I don't have a spare one to test right now without dismantling other TV's in the house.

    2. Already reported on the 'direct to TV' method, but to confirm I did it again. Hooked up this way, all sound comes through as should. But the whole purpose of this is not to use the TV Speakers.

    3. As for: "test both cables going into the TV directly" - The suspicious cable I am using going from BR to Receiver is a shorty. TV is hung on wall and I can't reach from the BR to the TV with that one.

    For less than $7 I went ahead and ordered a 2 pack of the Amazon Basics Cables, labeled "Latest Standard". I figured it's not a bad idea to give this a try. They should be here by tomorrow. This is the exact ones I ordered. Do you approve of these?

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    Originally Posted by urbanlifter View Post
    Another thing you may try is going into the menu of the Blu Ray player and look for software updates.
    UL - The menu said I have the latest software installed.
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  10. #130
    Can't break what's broken Synthetickiller's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CanadaBuilder2 View Post
    There is one argument going for "overkill" power supplies. The load on the power supply would be a lot less, and it would perform more efficiently, and it will last longer. You still use less energy. Or the difference would be marginal.

    If the load on the PSU is close to, or exceeds its rating, it will die faster. Except maybe those gold or platinum rated ones.

    I think of them like ACs (Air Conditioners) or all types of cooling equipment. The big horsepower ones cool the room faster, and go to "low power" mode for maintenance faster. And of course, keep the room sealed or close the doors, so you don't waste sending out cold air to the outside.
    I see your point.
    I have the original enermax galaxy 1000w PSU from way back in 2006 still running my main server. I originally bought it for high power gpus running on power hungry dual socket server boards that require dual 8 pin power connectors along with the 24 pin. It's been through hell & back. Funny thing is that a lot of the units shipped for this model had soldering issues. I lucked out, I guess. The only downside is that it's not even 80Plus. If I had more funds, I'd look into building a main server using the same board as I am now (ASRock C2550CDI yadda yadda yadda). My opteron is noticeably faster in menus in Napp-it, but that's it. I rarely access the gui anyways, so it's a moot point.



    Originally Posted by KBKB View Post
    I came up with the 1000W PSU size after reading through this PSU sizing guide:

    https://forums.freenas.org/index.php...uidance.38811/

    The problem, as described there, is that drives require more power when spinning up. They suggest allowing for 35W per drive for spin-up. Then you have to add in power for fans, motherboard, host bus adapters, CPU, etc.

    I just did the calculations again and end up with 879W. But they recommend multiplying that number by 1.2, which ends up being 1098.75. That being the case, 1000W seems about right.

    I could go for a smaller supply by staggering spin-up.
    I'm buying a belkin power meter. I've been meaning to get a kill-a-watt or something similar. This is a good excuse. I want to know what the real world power draw.
    I read a review about the seagate constellation S.2 drives I bought & they require less than 24w to spin up, but are also 7200 rpm.
    I don't remember the drives that you're getting, but I did find that the WD Reds (8tb version) draws only about 8w on read/write. Apparently, the new helium 8TB models use less power than most drives, in general. It's good to have overkill, but it's something to consider... the majority of the time, you won't pull more than 6w per drive.

    I'll give you a heads up about how much power I pull. Give me by Friday (hopefully).

    If you plan on keeping the PSU in this system for an insane amount of time (like my trusty enermax), there are 80 Plus Titanium PSUs now, lol.
    If you're constantly using the server & doing backs, are in a hot environment & generally feel that the 128TB of storage will last you at least that long, it might pay for itself in that period of time.

    Originally Posted by urbanlifter View Post
    IMO Blu Rays will go by the way of the dinosaur in the next 10 years, I BARELY use mine anymore due to having a smart TV. Picture quality is fantastic, less cable management, I don't have to mess around with searching for disc's, or worry about them getting scratched beyond repair.
    What's going to be interesting is how ISPs deal w/ streaming bandwidth.
    720p/1080i/1080p takes a good bit of bandwidth, but 4k is a lot more. I have Charter/Spectrum & they don't seem to care that I'm torrenting gigs & gigs of things (nothing that appears illegal to them, like anime), but I know other ISPs like Comcast would give me hell about it (I really hate that company, lol). For a lot of people, they either don't have the bandwidth or can't afford it. There's still a blockbuster open about 30 minutes north of me because the ISP selection up there is lacking to say the least. I doubt that we'll see optical media die until 30mbps+ is a ubiquitous connection throughout the US.

    Even then, a lot of people prefer to own their media. This is why I don't stream anime. This also pertains to ebooks... where if you physically own it, you can pass it down from generation to generation. Unless you give your next of kin all of your account info before death, all of those ebooks are "lost." Digital content has a lot of problems still.

    Originally Posted by dieselmike View Post
    Update to these tests:

    1. I changed inputs on the receiver and same thing happens with BR's - Sound but no dialogue. I tried all possible inputs using the same HDMI cord (I don't have a spare one to test right now without dismantling other TV's in the house.

    2. Already reported on the 'direct to TV' method, but to confirm I did it again. Hooked up this way, all sound comes through as should. But the whole purpose of this is not to use the TV Speakers.

    3. As for: "test both cables going into the TV directly" - The suspicious cable I am using going from BR to Receiver is a shorty. TV is hung on wall and I can't reach from the BR to the TV with that one.

    For less than $7 I went ahead and ordered a 2 pack of the Amazon Basics Cables, labeled "Latest Standard". I figured it's not a bad idea to give this a try. They should be here by tomorrow. This is the exact ones I ordered. Do you approve of these?

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
    Those are fine. I've never actually bought a bad HDMI cable. The reviews are good & you're not overpaying. That's really all that matters.

    The reason I wanted you to hook it up to the tv with both was to confirm that the hdmi cable in question was sending audio properly. Bypassing the receiver rules out the receiver being the culprit. There has to be a process of elimination to rule out all possible issues.

    Hopefully, it's just the cable & an easy fix.
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  11. #131
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    alright geeks I am in the market for a new computer.

    I am looking at all-in-ones with a touch screen, seems like it would be the most useful to me - I can't justify why though...

    Not a power user by any means. My sister sent me her original Surface Pro (updated to Win10) and that should actually be more than enough for my needs, but I would like a traditional computer though.

    This will be for web surfing, very light photo editing (like cleaning up cell phone pics and printing), I am looking to get into some audio editing (voiceovers), and MAYBE light video editing - thinking about doing some youtube videos of a videogame I play - more for the voice over practice on it.

    So as I understand it, the video editing (which may or may not actually happen) is going to be the most laborious for the computer.
    From what I was told, I should be looking no lower than the i5...but I am not sure. Also what should I be looking at in terms of # of cores?

    This Dell looked great in the store and from online reviews, but I don't know anything about the AMD processors. From what I saw comparing it to the i5 it is a little slower in performance, but again, given my usage, I don't know if that is a big difference

    http://www.bestbuy.com/site/dell-ins...&skuId=4205600
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    My server has dual power supplies. hehehe. I actually unplugged one, and the other took over. Then I plugged the first one back in, and unplugged the second one. Still working.

    Of course, I tried unplugging both units, the server lost power, duh!


    @Cleveland33, I recommend Intel, anything that has 4 cores or more. That probably means i5 or i7. You'd probably do better getting the unit from Dell directly, but I am not sure about that. RAM = as much as you want to spend or afford, minimum 8 GB. SSD for the main boot drive, and a "traditional" 1 TB HDD for your "slow" storage.

    Traditional desktop computers that are not all-in-ones are generally better in terms of performance for the same price, and you can pick your monitor size, or have dual monitors.

    All-in-ones are convenient and take up less foot print (but not that much unless you really have no space), but if anything breaks, ... well, all-in-one.
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    Originally Posted by Synthetickiller View Post

    I'm buying a belkin power meter. I've been meaning to get a kill-a-watt or something similar. This is a good excuse. I want to know what the real world power draw.
    I read a review about the seagate constellation S.2 drives I bought & they require less than 24w to spin up, but are also 7200 rpm.
    I don't remember the drives that you're getting, but I did find that the WD Reds (8tb version) draws only about 8w on read/write. Apparently, the new helium 8TB models use less power than most drives, in general. It's good to have overkill, but it's something to consider... the majority of the time, you won't pull more than 6w per drive.

    I'll give you a heads up about how much power I pull. Give me by Friday (hopefully).

    If you plan on keeping the PSU in this system for an insane amount of time (like my trusty enermax), there are 80 Plus Titanium PSUs now, lol.
    If you're constantly using the server & doing backs, are in a hot environment & generally feel that the 128TB of storage will last you at least that long, it might pay for itself in that period of time.
    I'll check the specs on both Seagate and WD Red 8TB drives and redo the calculations.

    I've decided to put a mix of drives in the server as that seems to be the best way to avoid catastrophic failures due to a bad batch of drives from a given manufacturer. (That's what I've read anyway.)

    With regard to power meters, I have no doubt that they provide a reasonably accurate reading of power usage over time. I do wonder, however, if they can show the instantaneous draw when the drives start spinning up. I.e. there'll be a big spike at the beginning, but it'll decrease fairly quickly. If the power meter averages it over a second or two, the value will likely be quite a lot lower than if it were able to show power usage over (say) 10 milliseconds when the drives all start spinning up at once.
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    Originally Posted by Cleveland33 View Post
    alright geeks I am in the market for a new computer.

    I am looking at all-in-ones with a touch screen, seems like it would be the most useful to me - I can't justify why though...

    Not a power user by any means. My sister sent me her original Surface Pro (updated to Win10) and that should actually be more than enough for my needs, but I would like a traditional computer though.

    This will be for web surfing, very light photo editing (like cleaning up cell phone pics and printing), I am looking to get into some audio editing (voiceovers), and MAYBE light video editing - thinking about doing some youtube videos of a videogame I play - more for the voice over practice on it.

    So as I understand it, the video editing (which may or may not actually happen) is going to be the most laborious for the computer.
    From what I was told, I should be looking no lower than the i5...but I am not sure. Also what should I be looking at in terms of # of cores?

    This Dell looked great in the store and from online reviews, but I don't know anything about the AMD processors. From what I saw comparing it to the i5 it is a little slower in performance, but again, given my usage, I don't know if that is a big difference

    http://www.bestbuy.com/site/dell-ins...&skuId=4205600
    I don't get the interest in a touch screen for desktop use, especially for what you're doing.
    Considering what you do, I'd rather see you buy a higher resolution screen over a touch screen. I know a guy who's done professional video editing, as well as personal stuff & he said the difference from 1080 to 1440 was huge. 1440 to 4k was eye opening (but he dropped $900 on a 4k monitor, so I don't see you wanting to do this). For 2016, 1080p is just too low resolution to be as productive. Also, keep in mind that the display panel on a computer this cheap will be TN & have extremely poor color accuracy for the price. There are pretty good TN panels, but it's not in this one. IPS is the way to go if you can afford it.

    TL;DR: For what you do, you're probably better off with a higher res. Touch screens on a desktop is gimmicky at best.
    I'd look at 1440p monitors (these have come down in price substantially).

    The A8 is pretty slow, specifically if the program you're using is not made for multi-core cpus. The fastest cpu from AMD is 2 years old. The A8-7410 cpu is actually a mobile cpu, so it's way slower than a desktop i5.
    For what you're doing, get a desktop processor, especially if you're doing audio & video editing. The time saved will feel like money well spent.


    And here's the thing... All-in-ones are expensive and you don't really get decent components. If you ever feel like you want a larger monitor, higher res screen, or both, you're SOL. Plus it puts the OS on a HDD... in 2016. It will feel sluggish & slow compared to an SSD, unless you've never experienced an SSD. If you have, then you'll be hating life till you upgrade & I doubt you want to void your warranty to upgrade the rig or to go to the trouble in this case.

    You might want to consider something like an Intel NUC that can sit under the monitor.
    If you want a quality monitor, drop $250 on a 27" QNIX QX2710 (matte finish, not glossy unless you swing that way). It's a 1440p panel with incredible color accuracy (beats my older NEC IPS panels, which were design for correct color reproduction).

    Another option is to build one on your own (I doubt this is what you were looking for). The benefits is that as tech changes, you can upgrade & not be forced to buy a new PC each time; you can spend more money on better components. Many itx cases are very small & would allow you to have proper expansion without having to place a tower somewhere. You'd be using desktop CPUs (you can use a mobile cpu, but why bother?) and basically getting double the performance. Also consider that you can install a video card if you ever plan on getting into PC gaming. That can also help with video editing if you get into it.


    I'm just laying out all of the options.
    I strongly dislike all-in-ones b/c repairing them can be a pain & parts are not standard. Plus if the monitor dies, you have this huge computer that you'd have to set behind another screen. At least with something small, you can carry it into another room & connect it to a TV easily.
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    Originally Posted by CanadaBuilder2 View Post
    My server has dual power supplies. hehehe. I actually unplugged one, and the other took over. Then I plugged the first one back in, and unplugged the second one. Still working.

    Of course, I tried unplugging both units, the server lost power, duh!


    @Cleveland33, I recommend Intel, anything that has 4 cores or more. That probably means i5 or i7. You'd probably do better getting the unit from Dell directly, but I am not sure about that. RAM = as much as you want to spend or afford, minimum 8 GB. SSD for the main boot drive, and a "traditional" 1 TB HDD for your "slow" storage.

    Traditional desktop computers that are not all-in-ones are generally better in terms of performance for the same price, and you can pick your monitor size, or have dual monitors.

    All-in-ones are convenient and take up less foot print (but not that much unless you really have no space), but if anything breaks, ... well, all-in-one.
    Redundant power supplies are so sexy. I've had 2 die. A 620w back in the day died when I plugged in an ATI 1900xt into it & that lovely blue smoke & electrical burn smell filled the room, lol. Another was a 600w sfx PSU for a silverstone SG07 case (that was such a love build when done, but hell to get all of the cabling in place). It died at the end of a movie, so I had it running for maybe 4 hours, including some small testing. The replacement silverstone gave me worked out fine.

    I agree 100% about your desktop assertions. I wish we could just get people to build desktops. They are so much better than store bought crap.

    Originally Posted by KBKB View Post
    I'll check the specs on both Seagate and WD Red 8TB drives and redo the calculations.

    I've decided to put a mix of drives in the server as that seems to be the best way to avoid catastrophic failures due to a bad batch of drives from a given manufacturer. (That's what I've read anyway.)

    With regard to power meters, I have no doubt that they provide a reasonably accurate reading of power usage over time. I do wonder, however, if they can show the instantaneous draw when the drives start spinning up. I.e. there'll be a big spike at the beginning, but it'll decrease fairly quickly. If the power meter averages it over a second or two, the value will likely be quite a lot lower than if it were able to show power usage over (say) 10 milliseconds when the drives all start spinning up at once.
    I'll get back to you on the power meter. I really don't know how well it will work. If it's crap, I'll return it & look into a kill-a-watt unit.
    You bring up a good point. They don't seem to list if the power rating is "instant." For shame Belkin!
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    Originally Posted by Synthetickiller View Post
    I'll get back to you on the power meter. I really don't know how well it will work. If it's crap, I'll return it & look into a kill-a-watt unit.
    You bring up a good point. They don't seem to list if the power rating is "instant." For shame Belkin!
    For the use case that such power meters are being sold for, it's probably better to average it out over some span of time. Having a one second resolution is more than adequate if you want to determine the average power that something is using. It'd be kind of annoying to see the displayed numbers jump around every tenth of a second.
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    Regarding touch screens...

    Earlier this summer, I managed to connect my Samsung tablet to my laptop for use as a second screen. (For photo editing, it's nice to be able to put the entire image on one screen and have the various tools on the second screen.)

    Anyway, once it was connected, the (mouse) cursor position could be adjusted via either the controls on the laptop (or my attached mouse) or, on just the tablet display, via the touch screen.

    For some things, it was kind of cool to be able to navigate there via the touch screen. That said, I can't think of a single time that I actually used this functionality during photo editing. But that just may be due to habits I've already formed.

    And, speaking of tablets...

    Are tablets totally out of the running?

    My Samsung (Galaxy S2 9.7") tablet has a resolution of 2048x1536, which is far better than my (physically larger) desktop displays which have a resolution of 1920x1200. In addition, I really like the AMOLED display on my Samsung tablet (and phone too). I've been waiting for desktop displays to use OLED technology. (It's my understanding that burn-in can be a problem.)

    Anyway... here's a product to consider:

    Samsung Galaxy TabPro S 12" 128GB (Wi-Fi)

    It uses a 12" AMOLED display with resolution of 2160x1440. It has a detachable keyboard, allowing it to be used like a laptop or as a large tablet. It runs Windows 10 Home.
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    Originally Posted by Synthetickiller View Post
    I don't get the interest in a touch screen for desktop use, especially for what you're doing.
    Considering what you do, I'd rather see you buy a higher resolution screen over a touch screen. I know a guy who's done professional video editing, as well as personal stuff & he said the difference from 1080 to 1440 was huge. 1440 to 4k was eye opening (but he dropped $900 on a 4k monitor, so I don't see you wanting to do this). For 2016, 1080p is just too low resolution to be as productive. Also, keep in mind that the display panel on a computer this cheap will be TN & have extremely poor color accuracy for the price. There are pretty good TN panels, but it's not in this one. IPS is the way to go if you can afford it.

    TL;DR: For what you do, you're probably better off with a higher res. Touch screens on a desktop is gimmicky at best.
    I'd look at 1440p monitors (these have come down in price substantially).

    The A8 is pretty slow, specifically if the program you're using is not made for multi-core cpus. The fastest cpu from AMD is 2 years old. The A8-7410 cpu is actually a mobile cpu, so it's way slower than a desktop i5.
    For what you're doing, get a desktop processor, especially if you're doing audio & video editing. The time saved will feel like money well spent.


    And here's the thing... All-in-ones are expensive and you don't really get decent components. If you ever feel like you want a larger monitor, higher res screen, or both, you're SOL. Plus it puts the OS on a HDD... in 2016. It will feel sluggish & slow compared to an SSD, unless you've never experienced an SSD. If you have, then you'll be hating life till you upgrade & I doubt you want to void your warranty to upgrade the rig or to go to the trouble in this case.

    You might want to consider something like an Intel NUC that can sit under the monitor.
    If you want a quality monitor, drop $250 on a 27" QNIX QX2710 (matte finish, not glossy unless you swing that way). It's a 1440p panel with incredible color accuracy (beats my older NEC IPS panels, which were design for correct color reproduction).

    Another option is to build one on your own (I doubt this is what you were looking for). The benefits is that as tech changes, you can upgrade & not be forced to buy a new PC each time; you can spend more money on better components. Many itx cases are very small & would allow you to have proper expansion without having to place a tower somewhere. You'd be using desktop CPUs (you can use a mobile cpu, but why bother?) and basically getting double the performance. Also consider that you can install a video card if you ever plan on getting into PC gaming. That can also help with video editing if you get into it.


    I'm just laying out all of the options.
    I strongly dislike all-in-ones b/c repairing them can be a pain & parts are not standard. Plus if the monitor dies, you have this huge computer that you'd have to set behind another screen. At least with something small, you can carry it into another room & connect it to a TV easily.
    I do have a pretty nice monitor now, not sure the specs but I doubt I would ever need anything more than that. The video game I was referring to is a phone/tablet game so the super high res isn't really an issue. And as for the editing it would really just be the game replays with me adding audio over it, not really editing the video.

    I was looking at touch screen monitors, because I think that would be beneficial to me just from how I work, and that got me looking at hte all in ones as the price over a touch screen monitor wasn't much higher.

    But I get what you are saying, I steer away from traditional desktops because I would need to get another monitor with it. I did start looking at building my own, but that seemed more expensive - though I think I would enjoy the building of it. But then wouldn't I have to pay for an OS?
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    Originally Posted by Cleveland33 View Post
    But then wouldn't I have to pay for an OS?
    Depends. What OS do you plan to run?
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    Originally Posted by KBKB View Post
    Depends. What OS do you plan to run?
    no clue, never built a computer. have only ever used windows - I do like 10 off the limited use I have had with it
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    Originally Posted by KBKB View Post
    Depends. What OS do you plan to run?
    Originally Posted by Cleveland33 View Post
    no clue, never built a computer. have only ever used windows - I do like 10 off the limited use I have had with it
    If you plan to run Windows 10, you'll have to buy a license. (Note that if you buy a machine with Windows pre-installed, the license fee is included in the price of the machine.)

    I don't think it's possible to transfer a Windows license from one machine to another. It's my understanding that even upgrading an existing machine to (say) a new processor or motherboard might require a call to Microsoft regarding the license.

    [Edit: After doing some more reading, it appears that it is possible to transfer a retail Windows license from one machine to another. I'll probably look into this some more at a later date because I do have a Windows 10 machine that I'd like to upgrade. Edit again: Reading a bit further... I might have to purchase a new license, since I got the current version of Win 10 through their free upgrade offer. It definitely needs more research.]

    There are a bunch of free operating systems which don't have license fees, e.g. any of the (many, many) Linux distros, or any of the (somewhat fewer) BSD variants (FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, PC-BSD, and perhaps a few others too.)
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    so what about a desktop like this
    http://www.bestbuy.com/site/lenovo-3...&skuId=5330100
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    so what is this Intel NUC thing?

    I really don't think I need super high end performance, in fact I know I don't need that. I probably don't even need mid range performance either.

    my work computer has done what I have needed just fine running an i5 with 4GB ram...
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  24. #144
    Lifting Vicariously Domicron's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cleveland33 View Post
    I did start looking at building my own, but that seemed more expensive - though I think I would enjoy the building of it. But then wouldn't I have to pay for an OS?
    i recently built 2 pcs, having built one in college 12 years ago, and it's pretty easy if you take your time and follow the directions (and read through them first).

    keeping up with what to buy is a serious pain in the ass, sites that really helped:

    for help picking price point
    http://techbuyersguru.com/500-home-office-pc-build

    for keeping track of low cost and compatibility
    http://pcpartpicker.com/list/

    this one resembles what i built
    http://techbuyersguru.com/500-home-office-pc-build
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  25. #145
    Registered User KBKB's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cleveland33 View Post
    Windows 10, Core i5, 16GB RAM, and 2TB hard disk.

    Looks okay to me.

    Though... if you're into gaming (I'm not), you might find the Intel integrated graphics to be limiting. That said, both of my current desktop machines (one Linux, one Windows) are using Intel integrated graphics. Intel graphics perform well enough for what I care about.
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  26. #146
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    NEW phone update: HTC 10!!!

    So a couple pages back I was excited about finally getting rid of my old Galaxy phone, upgrading to the HTC 10 (previously owned HTC One M8). So far I must say I'm REALLY impressed with the phone itself, its performing well in EVERY category that matters to me. Compared to the M8 the body is very similar, nice curved metal frame and the added weight makes it feel durable. Display seems to be pretty typical these days, it's not difficult to make a small screen look awesome and when playing Netflix it certainly does not disappoint (1080p quality). One of the coolest features I'm enjoying is the new fingerprint reader, which allows you to quickly access your home screen without messing around with patterns or passwords.

    The capabilities of the camera seem impressive, here is a quick shot of the tree in my front yard. This was on basic Auto settings, the phone also has a built in 'Pro' version that seems to be similar to the manual controls you would have on a DSLR camera. Very user friendly, and I'm sure it will perform well even in the worst lighting conditions!

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    Registered User KBKB's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cleveland33 View Post
    so what is this Intel NUC thing?

    I really don't think I need super high end performance, in fact I know I don't need that. I probably don't even need mid range performance either.

    my work computer has done what I have needed just fine running an i5 with 4GB ram...
    I had to search to find out about Intel NUC.

    I still don't know that much about it - like what NUC stands for, if anything - but they seem to be small form factor computers. AFAICT, they don't have optical drives. If they have a hard drive at all, they use 2.5" (laptop) drives.

    Anyway, there seem to be plenty of options. Seems like a good choice to me, so long as you're okay with the specs.

    Edit: NUC seems to stand for "Next Unit of Computing".
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  28. #148
    Can't break what's broken Synthetickiller's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cleveland33 View Post

    If you're ok with a desktop...
    Lenovo has an outlet... (I've bought from them, a $1000 & $1200 laptop , it's legit)

    i7 based desktops ($500 or less, many for $450 or less): http://outlet.lenovo.com/outlet_us/d...,3,4&facet-5=1

    They have i5s & i3, but seriously consider an i7, just for the fact that it'll last you maybe one or two generations longer. Most only have 4gb (a few have 8gb)... if you're ok with upgrading ram (that's about the easiest thing to do & you can ebay it to get a little money back), you can have a significantly more powerful computer with a ssd for about the same price. Another option is just to buy an SSD after & migrate the OS over to the drive (I've heard this isn't hard, but I've never done it. Youtube is your friend, lol).


    Edit:

    My laptops were scratch & dent. They had no damage to them. At the worst, you might have a ding. What matters is that the computer works, right? lol.

    You have a lot of options, but it depends on how in depth you want to get. Do you want something to work out of the box or would you do a few things to improve upon a good computer?
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    Registered User urbanlifter's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Synthetickiller View Post
    My laptops were scratch & dent. They had no damage to them. At the worst, you might have a ding. What matters is that the computer works, right? lol.
    I have bought about 6 laptops over the years from Dell, all either refurbished or scratch/dent. ALL of them have functioned without issues and I saved as TON of money in the process.
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  30. #150
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    If I have learned something this past couple of years, it's that you should try buying used / refurb. Can't beat the performance for the price. There are some pretty good deals on off-lease servers or workstations.

    For example, at my favorite store (it's in Canada, I'm sure there are many of them in the US) you can buy a small tower workstation with the following specs:

    Dual Xeon Hex Core = 12 cores total, 24 threads if you hyper-thread.
    96GB RAM
    DVD Burner Drive
    Front Card Reader Slots
    2Tb 7.2K SATA Hard Drive
    Embedded Raid Controller
    Nvidia Quadro FX1800 Video Card Resolution up to 2560 x 1600
    2 X Gigabit Network Ports 10/100/1000
    and comes with Windows 7 with Certificate of Authentication. (So you can just buy a Win10 upgrade, or find a way to do some "digital entitlement" for free.)

    For approximately $918 USD.

    So, just add an SSD and a nice wide monitor and you're good to go. If you're not sure what to do with all that memory, install ESXi or Hyper-V or Virtual Box and go play.

    That's actually on my wish list, I think the price will go down another hundred or two by next year, if they are still available. The server I got was $600 for 48GB RAM, but it's a rack server.
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