thoughts on push/pull ratios ?
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09-21-2016, 06:19 PM #91
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09-21-2016, 08:10 PM #92
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09-21-2016, 10:22 PM #93
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09-23-2016, 02:31 PM #94
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Punching. The Serratus anterior's job is to bring the outer boarder of the scapula around the body (protraction) and also help bring up the inferior boarder similar to what happens during an overhead press. Thats why you see them soo highly developed on boxers. Very very few muscles do scapular protraction. The only other (practical) action I could see working the serratus would be using cables or machine fly machine that would disengage the pec major and promote spreading the scapulas, but again pec minor assists in the scapular protraction so it would be very hard to target the serratus anterior. Lastly, I bet picking up atlas stones and placing them on a high platform would definitely work the serratus.
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09-23-2016, 10:08 PM #95
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09-23-2016, 10:29 PM #96
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09-24-2016, 06:36 AM #97
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09-24-2016, 11:26 AM #98
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09-28-2016, 04:16 PM #99
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Sure! I actually had to look this exercise up. Quite honestly ive never heard or even seen this exercise done before but with some anatomy knowledge and biomechanics i can tell you this exercise is quite better at targeting the pecs rather than the tris or anterior delt.
First off, the pec major does two major things. One, it does internal rotation of the humerus and two it does horizontal adduction of the humerus. If you want to target a muscle well, make it stretch (contract eccentrically) on every rep and that is exactly what you are doing with this kind of dip. The pec is being stretched very well because the elbows are pointed very far out (horrizontally) however, the humerus is internally rotated. This can be good because if a muscle is being overstretched it can become too weak and other muscles will take over. Secondly, this dip looks just like a decline bench press. The elbows are out and the force is being produced somewhat towards the belly button. Do the most muscular flex and emphasize your chest, this mimics the grionda dip. Lastly, we know the anterior delt is not working as hard because the shoulder is not in much extension. The elbow joint is only about 90 degrees of flexion so the triceps are actually in their strongest position and they wont have to work as hard as the pecs because they have all the mechanical advantage.
Great question!!!!
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Theres ultimately only one way to increase strength and hypertrophy and that is through progression of load. Sets x Reps x Weight.
3 sets of 5 reps starting at 135lbs
135 x 15 = 2025
Lets say you progress one rep on the last set
135 x 16 = 2160
Lets say instead you progress 2.5 lbs on the last set (135 x5, 135 x5, 137.5 x 5)
135 x 10= 1350 + (137.5 x 5)= 687.5
Total = 2037.5
We can see that just one rep holds much more value in pure work loading than a micro loading plate (1.25lbs per side). Now if you are an elite power lifter that has had the same raw total for 5 years, any increase in work load is beneficial and microloading plates can help narrow that gap between increasing by 1 rep and a 2.5lb plate on each side. However, if you are a beginner/intermediate you should be able to handle 1 more rep per workout (or more!) therefore micro-loading would actually hold you back from progressing.
I hope this helps answer your question as the terms you are refering to are not standard in the kinesiology literature and seem to be "made up" by someone.Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist (NSCA)
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09-28-2016, 04:23 PM #100
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09-28-2016, 04:36 PM #101
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09-28-2016, 04:59 PM #102
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09-28-2016, 06:55 PM #103anonymousGuest
why no serratus push-ups, dynamic hug ????
Differences in EMG activity during exercises targeting the scapulothoracic region: a preliminary study.
Park SY1, Yoo WG, Kim MH, Oh JS, An DH.
Author information
Abstract
Surface electromyographic response of the middle, lower serratus anterior, and the upper trapezius muscles was investigated within a number of exercises. In total, 16 healthy, physically active volunteers completed three individual trials consisting of arm elevation above 120°, diagonal elevation, dynamic hug, dynamic hug plus, and push-up plus while surface electromyography was used to record muscle activity in the lower and middle serratus anterior (LSA, MSA) and upper trapezius (UT) muscles. The dynamic hug plus exercise caused significant increases in the activity of the MSA compared with the other exercises (P < 0.05). The diagonal elevation, dynamic hug plus, and push up plus showed significantly higher activation in the LSA compared with the arm elevation above 120° and the dynamic hug (P < 0.05). The activation of the UT and the UT/MSA and UT/LSA ratios in both the arm elevation and diagonal shoulder flexion exercises was significantly higher than that for the dynamic hug, dynamic hug plus, and push-up plus exercises (P < 0.05). The present study showed that the dynamic hug plus exercise could be used for activating MSA and LSA. Selective activation of the LSA and MSA is better achieved with exercises that include a scapular protraction component.
Serratus anterior muscle activity during selected rehabilitation exercises.
Decker MJ1, Hintermeister RA, Faber KJ, Hawkins RJ.
Author information
Abstract
The purpose of this study was to document the electromyographic activity and applied resistance associated with eight scapulohumeral exercises performed below shoulder height. We used this information to design a continuum of serratus anterior muscle exercises for progressive rehabilitation or training. Five muscles in 20 healthy subjects were studied with surface electrodes for the following exercises: shoulder extension, forward punch, serratus anterior punch, dynamic hug, scaption (with external rotation), press-up, push-up plus, and knee push-up plus. Electromyographic data were collected from the middle serratus anterior, upper and middle trapezius, and anterior and posterior deltoid muscles. Each exercise was partitioned into phases of increasing and decreasing force and analyzed for average and peak electromyographic amplitude. Resistance was provided by body weight, an elastic cord, or dumbbells. The serratus anterior punch, scaption, dynamic hug, knee push-up plus, and push-up plus exercises consistently elicited serratus anterior muscle activity greater than 20% maximal voluntary contraction. The exercises that maintained an upwardly rotated scapula while accentuating scapular protraction, such as the push-up plus and the newly designed dynamic hug, elicited the greatest electromyographic activity from the serratus anterior muscle.
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09-28-2016, 07:25 PM #104
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09-29-2016, 12:42 PM #105
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10-14-2016, 03:21 PM #106
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im bored, lets talk.
my exercise physiology professor quoted a study in class the other day. I emailed him for the specific study but havent gotten a reply back but ill highlight the take away message.
Three groups of people were told to eat 1200 extra calories every single day for an unknown length of time.
Group A was the control, sedentary lifestyle... they gained 12 pounds
Group B was a group of individuals who exercise regularly in the afternoons. They gained 5 lbs
Group C was a group of individuals who exercise in the mornings on an empty stomach. They gained 0 lbs despite the 1200 calorie increase.
Q: Why is this?
A: Metabolism and gene expression are not as black and white as most people make them out to be. Cals in vs Cals out seems to work for most individuals because most people exercise at night. The glucagon and cortisol release during fasted workouts seem to have a longer lasting effect on recovery. The entire mechanism has not been explained and I have not been able to find out the answer but we know this tool works to keep body fat at a minimal.
Try it for yourself for a month and document the results. After all, what good is suggestive research if we arent willing to test it on ourselves.Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist (NSCA)
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10-14-2016, 07:35 PM #107
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10-14-2016, 09:46 PM #108
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3002457/
I will clarify and outline the results.
Group 1[con]) sedentary individuals yielding 30% more calories per day with daily macros of 50% fat, 40% CHO and 10% protein
Group 2[CHO]) 2-6 hours a week of activity with a 30% increase in calories with daily macros of 50% fat 40% CHO and 10% protein. This group was given breakfast (675 kcal, 70% carbohydrates, 15% fat, 15% protein) ∼90 min before each training session.
Group 3[F]) 2-6 hours a week of activity with a 30% increase in calories with daily macros of 50% fat 40% CHO and 10% protein. This group trained in the fasted state and then had the same pre-workout meal as group 2 after the workout.
Subjects from group 2 and subjects from group 3 were assigned to workout together maintaining the same vo2 max throughout the entire training session. Group 2 (F) decreased AUCgluc as well as serum insulin. The training-induced increase in muscle GLUT4 content was greater in F than in CHO. muscle glycogen content was elevated in F (P < 0.05) but not in CHO. Sedentary group gained 3kg and increased skinfold results by 15%. In the fasted group neither weight gain nor skin fold measurements increased. CHO group gained 1.5kg and increased skin fold calculations by 5%. VO2 max test showed no difference in the F group whereas CHO group increased from 60.5 to 64.7. Maximal fat oxidation levels did not change in the CHO group however the F group increased fax oxidation by 13%. Lastly AMPK was raised in the F group compared to the CHO group.
Basically fat oxidation was largely up-regulated in the F group as well as a decrease in lipogenesis. An interesting follow up story would be to compare the same three groups all at indentical calorie balance and compare LBM to Fat mass. My intuition would be that the fasted group would decrease in body fat % compared to the CHO group.Last edited by y0lked; 10-14-2016 at 09:57 PM.
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10-15-2016, 11:08 AM #109
Couple of thoughts:
1. Of course lipolysis will go up given you're in a fasted state, that's just common sense. Not to mention the high %age of kcals coming from fat in the diet (eat more of a specific nutrient = increase in oxidation) But, you must consider what's happening DURING and AFTER the training session.
2. Given the increase in VO2 max, we know that having carbs in your blood stream will allow you to train at a higher intensity DURING the training session, not to mention it will subsequently ramp up lipolysis post workout as well.
3. You must also consider the hormonal implications - if one is trying to train at a high intensity but doesn't have the necessary substrates in circulation (carbs), what must they rely upon? Well, for most they're just going to stim out their adrenals with caffeine and rely upon epi and norepi in order to increase exercise performance...not sustainable in the long run.
Not to mention, if you take in carbs DURING the session, you're decreasing the subsequent increase in cortisol and promoting a protein sparing effect. Both beneficial if the goal is long term muscle mass accrual.
4. They up regulated AMP-K which will then down regulate mTOR. This is highly beneficial if your goal isn't to get jacked...
5. I honestly believe that if the goal is MAXIMAL muscle mass accumulation, working out in a fasted state is not going to accomplish this.B.S. Exercise Science
M.S. Applied Sport Science and Exercise Physiology
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10-15-2016, 11:32 AM #110
Going to stick this thread, and keep it stuck as long as it remains reasonably active, OP. There's been some good info posted in here, as well as some good back-and-forth discussion.
Please carry on........................No brain, no gain.
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10-15-2016, 11:47 AM #111
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10-16-2016, 09:19 PM #112
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Very nice reply. Ingesting the carb drink during the workout and "sparing muscle" is great but we know that per liter of oxygen protein is the least efficient at providing ATP. Also, the fat adapted subjects would require more O2 during exercise which would also down regulate gluconeogenesis from AAs. If the subjects in the fasted group didnt gain weight nor body fat couldnt we say that there was some sort of balance going on between the fat loss and muscle retention? Based on these statements could we say that training in a fasted state might be more beneficial for a cutting regime? My only counter to this is that if the subjects in the fasted group didnt gain weight nor body fat couldnt we say that there was some sort of balance going on between the fat loss and muscle retention?
Lets talk about some hypotheticals. 1) lets say that instead of increasing carbs and fat to a very high level, lets say that subjects that train in the fasted state eat 500 cals over maintenance with the same macro ratios (say 40/40/20) and post workout consume a meal of 30g of whey protein, 70g maltodextrin, and 10g fat then 60 minutes later consume another high protein/high carbohydrate "breakfast". The fat burning benefits of fasted training could be achieved, along with being in a positive calorie balance could achieve lean gains while utelizing an up-regulation of fat burning for the rest of the day.
The study used endurance athletes who did cardio for their workouts (they were rought 74 kilos), I wonder how this study would look using hypothetical #1 and using resistance trained athletes without any external form of cardiovascular training.Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist (NSCA)
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10-16-2016, 09:25 PM #113
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I'm having quite a bit of issues developing my chest like I want to. I can increase the width, seemingly, pretty easily via flyes, butterflyes, and what-not. However, building a thickness on the inside of my pectorals is proving difficult for me. Can any one help out on that end?
I've gotten pretty good size legs, as of now. I can squat 415 and deadlift 425. I, however, don't have the thickness and definition I really want. Again, any advice for that?
And, lastly. No matter what I do and how I eat and train, I can get down to a low BF%, but my lower abs are never remotely up to par. They are always soft, and not well defined. Can anyone help on what sort of diet I should have or exercises to help?
Thanks
Try doing less ab exercises that utilize the hip flexors. Side planks, rope crunches, farmers walks etc.Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist (NSCA)
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10-17-2016, 05:06 AM #114
Loving this thread even though I hardly understand half of it.
I have a question about squats.
A trainer in my gym was telling me that my knees should not travel over my toes during the squat. My squat stance is slightly wider than shoulder width and am doing a high bar squat. He mentioned that by not letting my knees go over my toes I will be activating more glutes.
Is this just broscience or is it actually something I should be concerned about?
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10-17-2016, 11:00 AM #115
when i was a kid i broke my left shoulder bone and it's a hard bone to be 100% recovered
and through all these years i developed myself to do most of work by my right side
now i have my left lat a little smaller than the right one, also when i workout i tend to put my left arm a bit inside and It'll screw my physics if i keep this way
do you have any suggestions?
Thank you
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10-17-2016, 12:05 PM #116
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Knees over toes is just a que for making sure there isnt excess dorsiflexion which can cause knee problems. The only connection with the glutes is that more knee flexion activates more quad involvement so there by reducing glute activation in the hole. If you want more glute activation do reverse hypers and glute thrusts, the squat is a very quad dominant movement.
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10-17-2016, 12:08 PM #117
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The shoulder is a joint and not a bone so I dont know which bone you are talking about. Just make it a conscious effort to put your body in the correct position to do the exercise. You said your left lat is a little smaller than the other? You could add in some one handed rows in order to target that lat to help it get up to speed. Which exercises do you normally get out of position on?
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10-17-2016, 02:18 PM #118
thank you for the fast reply i appreciate it
it was exactly the clavicle that i broke,
lately i started adding two sets using "ELEVATED CABLE ROWS" to my left lat
for your question the exercises are
this one and ALWAYS :"WIDE-GRIP PULLDOWN BEHIND THE NECK"
also when i work PREACHER CURLS usually with a curl bar
and sometimes i feel like i'm doing the exercise pretty good by my right than left hand
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10-17-2016, 03:28 PM #119
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10-17-2016, 03:30 PM #120
When doing three sets of 12 reps of an exercise should you always work until failure on every set? Or should you just work until failure on the last set?
Does only working a single muscle group once a week work? I found several university websites saying that this method is not useful at all.
Are there any books you would recommend, on weight training? I'm sick of all the bro-science BS. I want advice from somebody who has a degree or is working towards one. Too many people think that just because they are big, that they are qualified to give advice.
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