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  1. #6301
    MAGA Orlando1234977's Avatar
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    ha ha know wonder this program was ranked #1 from '71-'76.

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  2. #6302
    Registered User GeneralSerpant's Avatar
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    I believe there's accelerated fat loss with adaptations to cardio, most likely a combination between what I've heard fat loss athletes speculate about training cardio when unfamiliar with it, and the textbook HIIT afterburn that which think functions similarly to the body fat from the contingent calorie surplus that gets used to build muscle with resistance training.
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  3. #6303
    Registered User paulmalley's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GeneralSerpant View Post
    I believe there's accelerated fat loss with adaptations to cardio, most likely a combination between what I've heard fat loss athletes speculate about training cardio when unfamiliar with it, and the textbook HIIT afterburn that which think functions similarly to the body fat from the contingent calorie surplus that gets used to build muscle with resistance training.
    interesting!!!
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  4. #6304
    Moderator Dominik's Avatar
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    Currently valued higher than Ford boyos. What a time to be alive.

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    Originally Posted by Dominik View Post
    Currently valued higher than Ford boyos. What a time to be alive.

    Reserve Banks traditionally printed more money backed by nothing to devalue the currency for their aims.
    Now with cryptos they just use psychology & convince people to accept that random junk is worth years of their labor.
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  6. #6306
    Squats traps to grass Defiant1's Avatar
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    First.

    Hi everyone. Commando post. Hope you are well!
    CSCS, ACSM cPT.
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  7. #6307
    Squats traps to grass Defiant1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dominik View Post
    Currently valued higher than Ford boyos. What a time to be alive.

    tried to send you a message but your inbox is full.
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  8. #6308
    Moderator Dominik's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Defiant1 View Post
    tried to send you a message but your inbox is full.


    Cleared some space. There are PMs in there going back 13 years.
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  9. #6309
    Registered User GeneralSerpant's Avatar
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    That's bad luck.
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  10. #6310
    Iron Snowflake W8isGR8's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Defiant1 View Post
    First.

    Hi everyone. Commando post. Hope you are well!
    I legit thought about you yesterday "What if D1 showed up in the rant after all these years.....nah"


    Awesome
    I don't know either lol
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  11. #6311
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    Originally Posted by Defiant1 View Post
    First.

    Hi everyone. Commando post. Hope you are well!

    Insta: flexjs

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  12. #6312
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    Originally Posted by W8isGR8 View Post
    I legit thought about you yesterday "What if D1 showed up in the rant after all these years.....nah"


    Awesome
    It's sad/fun how this stuff stays with you. I think I remember more about people on this page than I do people IRL. For example, I say "tripeps" still. I don't think I've ever laughed as hard as I laughed at some of the stuff that went on on this site.

    Good stuff. Good to see you.
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  13. #6313
    MAGA Orlando1234977's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Defiant1 View Post
    It's sad/fun how this stuff stays with you. I think I remember more about people on this page than I do people IRL. For example, I say "tripeps" still. I don't think I've ever laughed as hard as I laughed at some of the stuff that went on on this site.

    Good stuff. Good to see you.
    Are you still training 1 set to failure.. like a real man?
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  14. #6314
    Registered User GeneralSerpant's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Orlando1234977 View Post
    Are you still training 1 set to failure.. like a real man?
    You mean per exercise or per muscle group?
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  15. #6315
    RIP YGST PapaBurgandy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GeneralSerpant View Post
    You mean per exercise or per muscle group?
    Feeder sets of 2-3 leading into one all out set is pretty sweet, IME.
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  16. #6316
    Registered User GeneralSerpant's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by PapaBurgandy View Post
    Feeder sets of 2-3 leading into one all out set is pretty sweet, IME.
    I should learn to fire up sooner, I usually like to do that with at least 4-5 sets. I mainly just like pacing it with something that's heavy but way controllable at the start, then watching my energy levels go over the hill as the sets go on.
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  17. #6317
    Squats traps to grass Defiant1's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Originally Posted by Orlando1234977 View Post
    Are you still training 1 set to failure.. like a real man?
    Yep. Once every 3 weeks to avoid overtraining.
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  18. #6318
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    Originally Posted by GeneralSerpant View Post
    You mean per exercise or per muscle group?
    Per torso.
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  19. #6319
    Registered User GeneralSerpant's Avatar
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    I don't know. Often I will block out my sets and will choose a rep range multiplied by x sets and it's not too uncommon to time failure near the last rep.
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    Iron Snowflake W8isGR8's Avatar
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    So all the literature seems to confirm that hypertrophy can happen no matter what rep range provided you take sets to failure*

    So while a set of 20 reps can make you grow as well as a set of 6 reps, I feel that it's too hard to take high rep sets to true failure.
    I don't know either lol
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    Originally Posted by Defiant1 View Post
    It's sad/fun how this stuff stays with you. I think I remember more about people on this page than I do people IRL. For example, I say "tripeps" still. I don't think I've ever laughed as hard as I laughed at some of the stuff that went on on this site.

    Good stuff. Good to see you.
    Yeah, it blows my mind when I think I've been off and on here for 15 years. Crazy
    I don't know either lol
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  22. #6322
    Registered User GeneralSerpant's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by W8isGR8 View Post
    So all the literature seems to confirm that hypertrophy can happen no matter what rep range provided you take sets to failure*

    So while a set of 20 reps can make you grow as well as a set of 6 reps, I feel that it's too hard to take high rep sets to true failure.
    For isolations or compounds?
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    Originally Posted by GeneralSerpant View Post
    For isolations or compounds?
    Whichever, but it's easier to take iso to failure with high reps.
    I don't know either lol
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    Registered User GeneralSerpant's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by W8isGR8 View Post
    Whichever, but it's easier to take iso to failure with high reps.
    Just thinking of all those synergist, stabilizer, and dynamic stabilizer muscles that all get worked from the coordination strength that low reps require on compounds tho.
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  25. #6325
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    Originally Posted by W8isGR8 View Post
    So all the literature seems to confirm that hypertrophy can happen no matter what rep range provided you take sets to failure*

    So while a set of 20 reps can make you grow as well as a set of 6 reps, I feel that it's too hard to take high rep sets to true failure.
    For size I feel the moderate rep ranges are slightly better than lower mostly because you're able to recruit and exhaust a larger spectrum of fibers with different endurance tolerances. I'm in month 5 of my muscle memory revenge tour which is been a lot of fun trying out different training protocols during a time when getting bigger and stronger happens week by week. Although, of course, what works now may not be optimal when I'm back to full strength. But for now, muscle memory is beating old age.
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    Originally Posted by W8isGR8 View Post
    So all the literature seems to confirm that hypertrophy can happen no matter what rep range provided you take sets to failure*

    So while a set of 20 reps can make you grow as well as a set of 6 reps, I feel that it's too hard to take high rep sets to true failure.
    "Failure" is often used in studies because it is probably the most objective way to measure relative effort. But your body is not going to give you the same adaptation to 20 rep sets that it does to 6 rep sets, especially as you advance.

    I would say the take home is "you can build size with many rep ranges as long as you train relatively hard (twss), but the more you advance the more specific your adaptation will be".

    Those "30% of 1RM build size" studies were done on beginners. I'm not saying that they DON'T work (at all), I'm just saying that the adaptation is going to be different depending on rep range. And there isn't some magic thing that happens at "failure" (Mentzer talking about "the growth signal" is cringe) vs a few reps from it, except it amps the stress up on your nervous system.

    As you train more and more towards all out effort, nerve cells become damaged. Nerve cells take WAY longer to recover than muscle cells. And your brain does not like nervous system damage-your CNS is your bodies number one priority in terms of survival. So what does your brain do? Convinces your body not to do it any more.

    What works (like Mel Siff said), is a combination of effort AND volume. That sounds simple, but the trick is, you can train with a higher volume with just a slight reduction in effort/set. If there is a secret, finding your personal Effort/Volume sweet spot is it. All the bull**** systems, philosophies, dogma, is really about that.
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    Originally Posted by Orlando1234977 View Post
    For size I feel the moderate rep ranges are slightly better than lower mostly because you're able to recruit and exhaust a larger spectrum of fibers with different endurance tolerances. I'm in month 5 of my muscle memory revenge tour which is been a lot of fun trying out different training protocols during a time when getting bigger and stronger happens week by week. Although, of course, what works now may not be optimal when I'm back to full strength. But for now, muscle memory is beating old age.
    That to me points to training at multiple rep ranges, not just using higher reps for everything. There is a difference. The Size principle, the way some people quote it, would imply that by training to failure with 20 reps would make you a great powerlifter. That, by the way, is EXACTLY what the take home of HIT/Jones/Nautilus was in the 70s. Slow speed of movement, done to failure, would develop all aspects of the muscle due to "orderly recruitment/fatigue". Which we all know is bull****. Or should know.
    Last edited by Defiant1; 05-10-2021 at 04:02 AM.
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    Also-in "grinds my gears" news. I have suffered in silence about "TUT". That is the dumbest metric for anything and is a great example of how an attempt at description takes on a life of it's own, kind of like "BMI". Has almost zero relevance in any particular situation. Only useful in the most general sense.

    I see a lot of smart people using the term, but it is useless and means nothing from a practical sense. It reminds me of people using lifted "total poundage" in the context of bodybuilding training. Again, means mostly nothing but sounds good.

    Said another way: "TUT has no virtue of its own". If someone can come up with an example of it meaning something relevant, for its own sake, I am all ears (yes, gauntlet toss).
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    Originally Posted by W8isGR8 View Post
    So all the literature seems to confirm that hypertrophy can happen no matter what rep range provided you take sets to failure*

    So while a set of 20 reps can make you grow as well as a set of 6 reps, I feel that it's too hard to take high rep sets to true failure.
    This does bring up a good point. High rep sets to failure or whatever are much harder than low rep sets to failure.
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    I think I don't need to squeeze as hard when training in 20 rep range, just as a matter of learning movement patterns. I feel like the coordination training isn't the same for all the involved muscles when you don't have to grip it harder, but that was mainly from a takeaway of getting into heavy doubles so I'm not certain. Not to mention that lower reps force a lot more stress on the grip side of things.

    First thing I think about really is the left/right gears on a bike. Your general level will be greatly improved with the left but the right is where you'll spend time dialing and inching forward.
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