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  1. #6541
    Registered User GeneralSerpant's Avatar
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    The subject of the video though is more about how breaks aren't actually required necessarily for progression.
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  2. #6542
    Iron Snowflake W8isGR8's Avatar
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    So i've always been pretty cardio averse, but i tried out that ski-erg machine and that gives wicked upper body pumps. Great warmup for an upper body day.
    I don't know either lol
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  3. #6543
    Moderator Dominik's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GeneralSerpant View Post
    The subject of the video though is more about how breaks aren't actually required necessarily for progression.
    Unless you're an elite athlete following a periodizied training program designed to peak for certain times of the year I think it makes sense to train instinctively. Log your workouts so you can track progress and listen to your body. If you're feeling tired and both sleep and nutrition are dialed in or injuries are starting to creep in then why wouldn't you back off or take a break?
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  4. #6544
    Moderator Dominik's Avatar
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    Let me put it another way. Which side would you rather err on. Leaving a bit of progress in the tank but remaining motivated, you're sleeping well, your immune system isn't spluttering, strength isn't declining, and above all you're avoiding injury vs. pushing it too far trying to squeeze in extra workouts with higher levels of intensity and volume for extended periods, etc. and the aforementioned issues start to become a problem.

    I'm not a competitive lifter. I train 3 nights a week up to 2 hours and when I'm feeling like I've been pushing it too hard I back off by deloading or taking more rest days. I feel at the absolute top of my game right now even if on paper it says I'm an old fart. If I punch my stats into an FFMI calculator it says I'm juiced yet I've never gone down that path so I must be doing something right. I don't have a youtube channel but I can say I look like I lift more than the bearded guy. Now for short periods of time I can definitely see the benefit of increasing it to 4-5 workouts a week but that's not sustainable for me with the way I like to train.

    I took 4 years off training and while I lost some size and strength I didn't shrivel up. After a few weeks of training I looked solid again and strength wise it took around 8-9 months to get to about 85% of where I was before I stopped. After 3 years I feel 100% back. So I can't see the downside of taking time off or resting when you feel burned out, unmotivated, and injuries begin creeping in. Continuing to solider on and grind through workouts might seem hardcore but if you're not an athlete being paid for that performance then what is the point? Make decisions that are conducive to lifting for a long time.
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  5. #6545
    Registered User EliKoehn's Avatar
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    ^^ Just curious, but do you actually lift more than Alan for 1RM attempts?
    Bench: 320
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  6. #6546
    Moderator Dominik's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by EliKoehn View Post
    ^^ Just curious, but do you actually lift more than Alan for 1RM attempts?
    Yes. I'm probably 70-80lbs heavier so I see no point comparing. Strictly from a bodybuilding perspective his training hasn't yielded as much size but then that's probably not his goal. I don't know a lot about him to be honest.

    The main point here is that at a more advanced level I'd be advocating more rest over pushing into genuine overtraining territory.
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  7. #6547
    Iron Snowflake W8isGR8's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dominik View Post
    Let me put it another way. Which side would you rather err on. Leaving a bit of progress in the tank but remaining motivated, you're sleeping well, your immune system isn't spluttering, strength isn't declining, and above all you're avoiding injury vs. pushing it too far trying to squeeze in extra workouts with higher levels of intensity and volume for extended periods, etc. and the aforementioned issues start to become a problem.

    I'm not a competitive lifter. I train 3 nights a week up to 2 hours and when I'm feeling like I've been pushing it too hard I back off by deloading or taking more rest days. I feel at the absolute top of my game right now even if on paper it says I'm an old fart. If I punch my stats into an FFMI calculator it says I'm juiced yet I've never gone down that path so I must be doing something right. I don't have a youtube channel but I can say I look like I lift more than the bearded guy. Now for short periods of time I can definitely see the benefit of increasing it to 4-5 workouts a week but that's not sustainable for me with the way I like to train.

    I took 4 years off training and while I lost some size and strength I didn't shrivel up. After a few weeks of training I looked solid again and strength wise it took around 8-9 months to get to about 85% of where I was before I stopped. After 3 years I feel 100% back. So I can't see the downside of taking time off or resting when you feel burned out, unmotivated, and injuries begin creeping in. Continuing to solider on and grind through workouts might seem hardcore but if you're not an athlete being paid for that performance then what is the point? Make decisions that are conducive to lifting for a long time.
    I've always found i need an equal number of rest days to training days, and no more than two days in a row. So M/W/F has always been great, or at the most M/T/Th/F.

    That's weight training of course, I can "exercise" every day but the heavy lifting is what will drain me
    I don't know either lol
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  8. #6548
    Registered User GeneralSerpant's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dominik View Post
    Unless you're an elite athlete following a periodizied training program designed to peak for certain times of the year I think it makes sense to train instinctively. Log your workouts so you can track progress and listen to your body. If you're feeling tired and both sleep and nutrition are dialed in or injuries are starting to creep in then why wouldn't you back off or take a break?
    You don't really need to break if you're following periodization protocol. Not much different than deload I guess, but you basically just lower weight to practice form and keep volume the same.

    I don't believe Thrall is telling people to start "not taking breaks," just that if your training is on a train then you don't need to get off if you're program is sensible and you're responding to it well, like, ever.

    Also he said, anecdotally, that the longest break he took was a week for his honeymoon, and it wasn't a refreshing experience by his account.
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  9. #6549
    Iron Snowflake W8isGR8's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GeneralSerpant View Post
    You don't really need to break if you're following periodization protocol. Not much different than deload I guess, but you basically just lower weight to practice form and keep volume the same.

    I don't believe Thrall is telling people to start "not taking breaks," just that if your training is on a train then you don't need to get off if you're program is sensible and you're responding to it well, like, ever.

    Also he said, anecdotally, that the longest break he took was a week for his honeymoon, and it wasn't a refreshing experience by his account.
    I feel like my body goes to **** anytime i stop exercising for more than like 3 days lol
    I don't know either lol
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  10. #6550
    Registered User GeneralSerpant's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by W8isGR8 View Post
    I feel like my body goes to **** anytime i stop exercising for more than like 3 days lol
    Same. I chalk it up to just the training schedule your body expects. When you mix in high intensity and failure training then it starts getting hard to mix up the rest schedules.
    Last edited by GeneralSerpant; 11-08-2021 at 08:02 PM.
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  11. #6551
    Moderator Dominik's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by W8isGR8 View Post
    I've always found i need an equal number of rest days to training days, and no more than two days in a row. So M/W/F has always been great, or at the most M/T/Th/F.

    That's weight training of course, I can "exercise" every day but the heavy lifting is what will drain me
    My experience has been the same. 3-4 days exactly like you outlined has worked best.

    Originally Posted by GeneralSerpant View Post
    You don't really need to break if you're following periodization protocol. Not much different than deload I guess, but you basically just lower weight to practice form and keep volume the same.

    I don't believe Thrall is telling people to start "not taking breaks," just that if your training is on a train then you don't need to get off if you're program is sensible and you're responding to it well, like, ever.

    Also he said, anecdotally, that the longest break he took was a week for his honeymoon, and it wasn't a refreshing experience by his account.
    Look at this comment from someone at the elite level who's pulled 1104lbs (501kg). "Rest is underrated." While he's responding to a joke I've heard him go into detail about the importance of rest. He's rarely injured.

    Spoiler!
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  12. #6552
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    Originally Posted by GeneralSerpant View Post
    Same. I chalk it up to just the training schedule your body expects. When you mix in high intensity and failure training then it starts getting hard to mix up the rest schedules.
    All it takes is a look at the general population to see how easy it is to fall out of shape. We're literally fighting a few hundred thousand years of genetic evolution that is doing its best to keep us fat and lazy as a means to conserve energy.
    I don't know either lol
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  13. #6553
    Registered User GeneralSerpant's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dominik View Post
    My experience has been the same. 3-4 days exactly like you outlined has worked best.

    Look at this comment from someone at the elite level who's pulled 1104lbs (501kg). "Rest is underrated." While he's responding to a joke I've heard him go into detail about the importance of rest. He's rarely injured.

    Spoiler!
    Idunno. Thrall placed first in one of his competitions, and top 5 in the rest.

    https://www.openpowerlifting.org/u/alanthrall

    If you'd wager that rest is the difference between these two guys' top performance, then maybe but idunno sounds skeptical.

    Originally Posted by W8isGR8 View Post
    All it takes is a look at the general population to see how easy it is to fall out of shape. We're literally fighting a few hundred thousand years of genetic evolution that is doing its best to keep us fat and lazy as a means to conserve energy.
    And it's funny how some people just sleep standing in good shape without any work.

    It's true though that are bodies are rather resilient to mistreatment and wear & tear.
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  14. #6554
    Moderator Dominik's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GeneralSerpant View Post
    Idunno. Thrall placed first in one of his competitions, and top 5 in the rest.

    https://www.openpowerlifting.org/u/alanthrall

    If you'd wager that rest is the difference between these two guys' top performance, then maybe but idunno sounds skeptical.
    While I can see the argument that a lot of people are lazy when it comes to training so "overtraining" shouldn't enter their mindset because they're a long way from the limit there is also no shortage of people who understate the importance of rest and recovery and pay the price for it especially as they get older and injuries pile up.

    On a personal note this past couple of weeks I've been grinding through a lot of volume with moderate weight. Even though I feel good I'm aware after another week of it I'll need to dial it back again, throw in a few rest days or some light workouts and increase rest times. A concept some people who are still pretty green training wise don't understand is accumulating fatigue. You don't just magically wake up after a long sleep or big meal and the fatigue goes away. It takes time. So you've got to manage the training load. Again, since I'm not a competitive lifter or elite athlete earning a living from it, I'd rather err on the side of leaving a bit in the tank and ultimately make decisions with a focus on longevity.

    There are many competitive lifters in PL, strongman, etc. who talk about serious injuries like torn biceps and pec tears as a rite of passage. They'll roll the dice in ways we can't discuss here in addition to going all out with their training to hit certain targets at an elite level. When all the planets align let's say they reach those targets, then get injured, and go into a sharp decline. Juxtapose that with recreational lifters who come within 70-80% of those numbers but are rarely injured, enjoy training, and seem to maintain a high level year after year. To me both are impressive but I know which scenario interests me more.
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  15. #6555
    Iron Snowflake W8isGR8's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dominik View Post
    While I can see the argument that a lot of people are lazy when it comes to training so "overtraining" shouldn't enter their mindset because they're a long way from the limit there is also no shortage of people who understate the importance of rest and recovery and pay the price for it especially as they get older and injuries pile up.

    On a personal note this past couple of weeks I've been grinding through a lot of volume with moderate weight. Even though I feel good I'm aware after another week of it I'll need to dial it back again, throw in a few rest days or some light workouts and increase rest times. A concept some people who are still pretty green training wise don't understand is accumulating fatigue. You don't just magically wake up after a long sleep or big meal and the fatigue goes away. It takes time. So you've got to manage the training load. Again, since I'm not a competitive lifter or elite athlete earning a living from it, I'd rather err on the side of leaving a bit in the tank and ultimately make decisions with a focus on longevity.

    There are many competitive lifters in PL, strongman, etc. who talk about serious injuries like torn biceps and pec tears as a rite of passage. They'll roll the dice in ways we can't discuss here in addition to going all out with their training to hit certain targets at an elite level. When all the planets align let's say they reach those targets, then get injured, and go into a sharp decline. Juxtapose that with recreational lifters who come within 70-80% of those numbers but are rarely injured, enjoy training, and seem to maintain a high level year after year. To me both are impressive but I know which scenario interests me more.
    You and Defiant1 really helped me understand decades ago the difference between muscle recovery and CNS/endocrine fatigue. So I'm not afraid to exercise everyday provided the intensity is adjusted for.

    I remember in the beginning be afraid to take the stairs for fear of "overtraining" my legs lol
    I don't know either lol
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    Originally Posted by Dominik View Post
    Interesting times.
    [INDENT]
    U.S. Billionaire Wealth Surged by 70%, or $2.1 Trillion, During Pandemic; They Are Now Worth a Combined $5 Trillion

    America’s billionaires have grown $2.1 trillion richer during the pandemic, their collective fortune skyrocketing by 70 percent — from just short of $3 trillion at the start of the COVID crisis on March 18, 2020, to over $5 trillion on October 15 of this year, according to Forbes data analyzed by Americans for Tax Fairness (ATF) and the Institute for Policy Studies Program on Inequality (IPS).
    I can't believe ole Aaron defied the overlords for the whole public to see. He even said things like he's a critical thinker and wants to arrive at his own conclusions. holy crap. Getcha smear campaigns ready. Ruggs driving 156 mph drunk and killing someone can be moved to the backburner.
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  17. #6557
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    This is my 46th week in a row of training 5x a week (Thursdays and Sundays are off).

    But, I deload every 4th week and that leaves me feeling fresh.

    I've trained 100% at home for the last 8 years and I don't think I could go back to a commercial gym.
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    Originally Posted by W8isGR8 View Post
    You and Defiant1 really helped me understand decades ago the difference between muscle recovery and CNS/endocrine fatigue. So I'm not afraid to exercise everyday provided the intensity is adjusted for.

    I remember in the beginning be afraid to take the stairs for fear of "overtraining" my legs lol
    Myself I was mainly putting all my eggs in one basket for the heavy compounds I'd train. I didn't really fear overtraining at that part particularly but I really couldn't wrap my head around pushing both shoulders and bench at the same time extensive enough for any significant development.

    Originally Posted by Dominik View Post
    While I can see the argument that a lot of people are lazy when it comes to training so "overtraining" shouldn't enter their mindset because they're a long way from the limit there is also no shortage of people who understate the importance of rest and recovery and pay the price for it especially as they get older and injuries pile up.

    On a personal note this past couple of weeks I've been grinding through a lot of volume with moderate weight. Even though I feel good I'm aware after another week of it I'll need to dial it back again, throw in a few rest days or some light workouts and increase rest times. A concept some people who are still pretty green training wise don't understand is accumulating fatigue. You don't just magically wake up after a long sleep or big meal and the fatigue goes away. It takes time. So you've got to manage the training load. Again, since I'm not a competitive lifter or elite athlete earning a living from it, I'd rather err on the side of leaving a bit in the tank and ultimately make decisions with a focus on longevity.

    There are many competitive lifters in PL, strongman, etc. who talk about serious injuries like torn biceps and pec tears as a rite of passage. They'll roll the dice in ways we can't discuss here in addition to going all out with their training to hit certain targets at an elite level. When all the planets align let's say they reach those targets, then get injured, and go into a sharp decline. Juxtapose that with recreational lifters who come within 70-80% of those numbers but are rarely injured, enjoy training, and seem to maintain a high level year after year. To me both are impressive but I know which scenario interests me more.
    What I'm curious about is what the difference is between you going light on the weights and other people going back to zone 1 of their training periodization. I feel like Thrall might possibly be taking rests as seriously as far as you're talking about them.

    And he does talk about people's workouts being too stressful but opts, instead of incorporating more rest breaks, to pace the workouts more optimally. And I don't think it's a matter of him saying "**** recovery," just that rest isn't necessarily a requisite and that "no rest" isn't necessarily a red flag.

    He neglects to bring up hypertrophy in the video, so that might be a pertinent point for consideration. As far as I'm concerned, long distance rowing training is conventionally geared for perpetual zone 3 heart-rate targeting, and I'm coming to find from myself and others online that doing this everyday without breaks is rather benign (not to get that confused with what you do). I just happen to lift weights and do calisthenics on top of that, but don't take breaks there either.
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    Resting heart rate in the morning can be a pretty good indicator of over-reaching and/or over-training and is quick and easy to monitor.
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    Originally Posted by J.L.C. View Post
    Resting heart rate in the morning can be a pretty good indicator of over-reaching and/or over-training and is quick and easy to monitor.
    I have two go-to methods for instinctive training:

    1. How excited am I to workout

    2. How heavy does a 45lb plate feel
    I don't know either lol
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    Originally Posted by Orlando1234977 View Post
    I can't believe ole Aaron defied the overlords for the whole public to see. He even said things like he's a critical thinker and wants to arrive at his own conclusions. holy crap. Getcha smear campaigns ready. Ruggs driving 156 mph drunk and killing someone can be moved to the backburner.
    "iM a fReE tHiNkEr!!" he says while taking horse dewormer and consulting Joe Rogan for medical advice that he got off right-wing memes on facebook


    Amazing coincidence that all the "free-thinkers" think the exact same ****
    I don't know either lol
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    Well shouldn't people be somewhat informed before they speak?
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    Originally Posted by GeneralSerpant View Post
    Well shouldn't people be somewhat informed before they speak?
    That's the inherent problem, people thinking their opinion holds the same weight as someone else's educated facts. That's why we have doctors and lawyers and astrophysicists. We have EXPERTS in a field because we can't be expected to know everything about everything.
    I don't know either lol
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    Originally Posted by W8isGR8 View Post
    I have two go-to methods for instinctive training:

    1. How excited am I to workout

    2. How heavy does a 45lb plate feel
    Most days, my answers are:

    1. Not vry

    2. Vry
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    Originally Posted by W8isGR8 View Post
    That's the inherent problem, people thinking their opinion holds the same weight as someone else's educated facts. That's why we have doctors and lawyers and astrophysicists. We have EXPERTS in a field because we can't be expected to know everything about everything.
    Well hopefully the monoclonal antibodies stopped him from tanking and also hopefully he didn't transmit the virus to anyone else.
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    Originally Posted by im2manly View Post
    Buy crypto, dawg
    Are you jersey lawyers watching the big trial going on here? Lotsa good stuff
    I saw part of it today with Rittenhouse on the stand until the judge stopped the prosecutor in his tracks and chewed him out.

    Originally Posted by W8isGR8 View Post
    "iM a fReE tHiNkEr!!" he says while taking horse dewormer and consulting Joe Rogan for medical advice that he got off right-wing memes on facebook


    Amazing coincidence that all the "free-thinkers" think the exact same ****
    He's also riding around with last year's league MVP trophy. Your media heros are making it sound like everybody is turning on him but wait till you hear the ovation when he returns to Lambeau Field in Green Bay.
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    Originally Posted by Orlando1234977 View Post
    Are you jersey lawyers watching the big trial going on here? Lotsa good stuff
    I saw part of it today with Rittenhouse on the stand until the judge stopped the prosecutor in his tracks and chewed him out.



    He's also riding around with last year's league MVP trophy. Your media heros are making it sound like everybody is turning on him but wait till you hear the ovation when he returns to Lambeau Field in Green Bay.
    Plot twist, i like him as a quarterback. I think it's trash humanity to lie about health status, but if the NFL and its fans cared about trash humans half the rapists/wife beaters/dog killer/child abuser/murderers would be kicked out. Whatever brings in the money right?
    I don't know either lol
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    Originally Posted by Orlando1234977 View Post
    Are you jersey lawyers watching the big trial going on here? Lotsa good stuff
    I saw part of it today with Rittenhouse on the stand until the judge stopped the prosecutor in his tracks and chewed him out.



    He's also riding around with last year's league MVP trophy. Your media heros are making it sound like everybody is turning on him but wait till you hear the ovation when he returns to Lambeau Field in Green Bay.
    Nah, I'm more interested in white collar matters than these type but it sounds like it is not going well for the prosecution
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    Originally Posted by im2manly View Post
    Nah, I'm more interested in white collar matters than these type but it sounds like it is not going well for the prosecution
    He skirted around rule 90404 without the proper exceptions and big judge Bruce stopped him, dismissed the jury, and chewed him out for 10 mins.
    Hope I sound like I know what I'm talking about.
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    Originally Posted by Orlando1234977 View Post
    He skirted around rule 90404
    What's rule 90404?

    Sounds like Ferangi rule of acquisition #5: Always exaggerate your estimates.

    But what about rule #108?: Dignity and an empty sack is worth the sack.
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