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  1. #61
    Lifting Vicariously Domicron's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by urbanlifter View Post
    Not really anymore difficult than a thin plate, at least with DD you have more area to grip with your fingers. Can you imagine how much it would suck trying to get one of those Rogue plates off the floor? I had a vintage York plate that I thought was suctioned cupped to the carpet, I had to slide something thin under the plate to get it off the ground. It was funny as hell at the time...
    this: what's different with a deep dish vs CAP plate?

    grips are nice, but i get real picky about what looks good and what doesn't. style becomes a bigger issue once you start getting into grip, imo. if you can make the hub slightly shorter than the depth of the lip, you'd be able to pick up the plate through the hole if it fell face down. though so far that's not been a problem for me.

    fit on the bar is important, but honestly a pair of compression collars should help that a lot. fit isn't as important as having a hole that isn't going to scratch up the bar, to me.
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  2. #62
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  3. #63
    Registered User dumb.bell's Avatar
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    For people that are interested in grip plates, there are quite a few really good ones on the market now. I don't see how you distinguish yourself if you just build another grip plate. On the other hand, no one is making a good deep dish plate right now.
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  4. #64
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    Originally Posted by dumb.bell View Post
    For people that are interested in grip plates, there are quite a few really good ones on the market now. I don't see how you distinguish yourself if you just build another grip plate. On the other hand, no one is making a good deep dish plate right now.
    What is your opinion on this one: http://www.amazon.com/Power-Systems-...+systems+plate

    The tricky thing is balancing between making something that doesn't exist --and has a demand-- versus making something that 20 guys that are super into niche products would want. We made this mistake early on with making farmer's handles, yokes, etc...because there was vocal demand from a small group of people, but 99% of lifters don't care or use these products. So I just need to see if that's what we're seeing here (ie those power systems plates look like they might be what everyone wants, and they already exist but don't sell often), or if there is legitimate demand that overcomes the design limitations of them. Because it seems like grip plates are superior for actual function, they just don't look as cool to some.
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  5. #65
    Dork of York Northernmoris's Avatar
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    Our demand CLEARLY is not the same demand as the gen pub. I flip equipment on the side, I've sold thousands of lbs of weight. 90% of the market just doesn't give a sh!t about the look. Rarely a sh!t given about actual weight. 99% of sh!ts given had to do with being content on the price. There is a greater market for Ivanko revolvers than anything. They will sell high. Yorks can either sell quick or slow. Again price is the factor with Yorks.
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  6. #66
    barbell junkie thejosef's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dumb.bell View Post
    For people that are interested in grip plates, there are quite a few really good ones on the market now. I don't see how you distinguish yourself if you just build another grip plate. On the other hand, no one is making a good deep dish plate right now.
    That is a Very good point.
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  7. #67
    Registered User urbanlifter's Avatar
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    Power Systems is pretty close to what I'm after, but it's missing the 'cool' factor that comes with old school iron. It's hard to pinpoint what exactly that is, maybe if Power Systems had skinnier writing and more crisp casting. But overall I like the design of these change plates the best, with York's classic DD as my desired 45's.

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  8. #68
    Lifting Vicariously Domicron's Avatar
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    the power systems look nice when i zoom in. i appreciate that they're machined on the rims, the hole looks cleanly bored. i think the price is going to be a big determining factor.

    i think i wouldn't regret getting them at $2.00/pound if i was buying new. on dumbbell buddy that puts them at about intek cast iron prices (shipped!) so i guess it depends on the margin.

    i'm curious because you carry some iron on your site, i see what looks to be generic Troy plates (O?) and also the GO plates. how well do you sell them? wondering if you'd be undercutting your nicer plates with the generic ones based on price

    Originally Posted by urbanlifter View Post
    Power Systems is pretty close to what I'm after, but it's missing the 'cool' factor that comes with old school iron. It's hard to pinpoint what exactly that is,
    imo it's the patina that comes with a well worn in 40 year old olympic plate. find a picture of a York deep dish that's been painted a similar color black to the power system (too glossy, or at least too much light in the photo) and see how you feel about it.

    i do like the power system plate more than the York legacy. i like machined edges on the sides and back and front rims, but they won't compare to the older stuff, at least not yet.
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  9. #69
    Registered User dumb.bell's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dukenukem7777 View Post
    I actually didn't realize anyone was making a deep dish plate. These do look better than most of the new plates that are on the market, but they still lack the style characteristics of say the rounded flanges on the Deep Dish Yorks or the thick inner hub of the Marcy Co Deep Dish Plates that would set them apart from other plates. While it does appear to be a deep dish it is a very generic deep dish and the Power Systems brand and font would be a negative in my view.
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  10. #70
    Registered User dumb.bell's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Domicron View Post
    imo it's the patina that comes with a well worn in 40 year old olympic plate. find a picture of a York deep dish that's been painted a similar color black to the power system (too glossy, or at least too much light in the photo) and see how you feel about it.
    Dom may have a point. I have a pair of Unbranded Ivanko 100s that have been refinished in a glossy grey paint. They look pretty crappy! Can't wait to strip the paint and sit them outside for a while.
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  11. #71
    Lifting Vicariously Domicron's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dumb.bell View Post
    Dom may have a point. I have a pair of Unbranded Ivanko 100s that have been refinished in a glossy grey paint. They look pretty crappy! Can't wait to strip the paint and sit them outside for a while.
    this is a big reason why i believe people aren't going to be interested in Deep Dish plates. don't get me wrong i'd LOVE it if the York legacy plates looked like the power systems but with the York lettering on it. i think that'd be fine, the milling looks not as nice as the old smooth finish, but it's clean and even.

    and while people don't mind bare steel bars, i'm willing to bet no one wants to buy olympic plates that are bare iron and slathered in grease to prevent rust, only to strip the grease and start seasoning it themselves...
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  12. #72
    Gray Matter Lifting Dont Want None's Avatar
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    Agreed with Dom. I told the Fringe guys that. The majority of people I see, that want vintage, want it not just because of the look. It's USA made, old, rare, patina, etc. Any and all of the above make it different. I think Atty said it makes the equipment no longer a "commodity" purchase. Putting out a new plate hits only 1 of probably 10+ reasons you'd buy deep dish.
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    Originally Posted by Northernmoris View Post
    Our demand CLEARLY is not the same demand as the gen pub. I flip equipment on the side, I've sold thousands of lbs of weight. 90% of the market just doesn't give a sh!t about the look. Rarely a sh!t given about actual weight. 99% of sh!ts given had to do with being content on the price. There is a greater market for Ivanko revolvers than anything. They will sell high. Yorks can either sell quick or slow. Again price is the factor with Yorks.
    Nailed it. I've sold some skinny script 45s and some sports authority 45s in the same lot. Guy paid the same price across the board. I had some beautiful internationals and some SA gear, handled garbage. Guy ignored the internationals completely
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  14. #74
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    Originally Posted by urbanlifter View Post
    Power Systems is pretty close to what I'm after, but it's missing the 'cool' factor that comes with old school iron. It's hard to pinpoint what exactly that is, maybe if Power Systems had skinnier writing and more crisp casting. But overall I like the design of these change plates the best, with York's classic DD as my desired 45's.

    Just sayin... Them plates with the made in the USA on them are sexy.
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  15. #75
    inside the box thinker CliveWarren's Avatar
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    Okay, so I think we need to find a paint, powdercoat, or other finish that has fauxtina. I think antique brass would be really cool. Maybe a thin coating of copper?
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    Originally Posted by CliveWarren View Post
    Okay, so I think we need to find a paint, powdercoat, or other finish that has fauxtina. I think antique brass would be really cool. Maybe a thin coating of copper?
    http://www.laurelmountainforge.com/barrel_brown.htm

    Nothing faux about it, real brown protective rust.
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    Originally Posted by Domicron View Post

    i'm curious because you carry some iron on your site, i see what looks to be generic Troy plates (O?) and also the GO plates. how well do you sell them? wondering if you'd be undercutting your nicer plates with the generic ones based on price



    imo it's the patina that comes with a well worn in 40 year old olympic plate. find a picture of a York deep dish that's been painted a similar color black to the power system (too glossy, or at least too much light in the photo) and see how you feel about it.

    i do like the power system plate more than the York legacy. i like machined edges on the sides and back and front rims, but they won't compare to the older stuff, at least not yet.
    Yes, we carry Troy but they're dropshipped and it's a pain in the ass to deal with that when someone wants a set of plates plus something from us. We're going to stop carrying them very soon.

    Originally Posted by Domicron View Post
    this is a big reason why i believe people aren't going to be interested in Deep Dish plates.
    Originally Posted by Dont Want None View Post
    Agreed with Dom. I told the Fringe guys that. The majority of people I see, that want vintage, want it not just because of the look. It's USA made, old, rare, patina, etc. Any and all of the above make it different. I think Atty said it makes the equipment no longer a "commodity" purchase. Putting out a new plate hits only 1 of probably 10+ reasons you'd buy deep dish.
    I'm starting to think this is correct. I think we'll probably just go with a multi-grip iron plate, machined well, low tolerances on accuracy. Not reinventing the wheel this time, just getting something we can stock at our store and include with packages.
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    If I add to my list of importance,

    correct OD for the 45s,

    can you incorporate the grip holes into a plate that also has a flat outer rim surface, so they all hit with a large bearing area? Morph a grip plate with a semi deep dish.

    Why have many recent molds trended to a outer rim design that not "flat", or more precisely, not cylindrical?
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    Good grief, when did I step into the ladies locker room? Style? Color? Can't get them off the floor? Need to spend more time training instead of at the keyboard, my old York comes right up when I ask. Just messing with you guys a little, and wanted to see if I was smart enough to embed a video. It has been an interesting thread.






    In all seriousness though; Made in USA, tight fit on the bar, good lip to get a grip on, and 2% +/- is fine by me.
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  21. #81
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  22. #82
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    i've not had an issue picking up plates that are flat on the ground.

    but i've found what you guys can keep around to help you pick them up:



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  23. #83
    Registered User Ramcharger310's Avatar
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    My favorite choice.

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    ahh. i was wondering if these plates were just floating into the face down position on the floor. I've yet to experience it.

    Originally Posted by Ramcharger310 View Post
    My favorite choice.

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  25. #85
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    I think the answers that were given matched the questions that you asked. You asked "What makes a good iron plate?" but you aren't really looking to make a good plate at all. You just want a basic plate.

    Originally Posted by dukenukem7777 View Post
    Not reinventing the wheel this time, just getting something we can stock at our store and include with packages.
    If that had been stated plainly in the beginning, the responses may have been different. I still don't recommend interlocking. Body Solid makes some basic inexpensive grip plates with a painted iron finish. They should satisfy the weight is weight guys if priced right. I've seen those plates or similar plates sold by stores as their house brand.
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  26. #86
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    Originally Posted by morebarbell View Post
    I think the answers that were given matched the questions that you asked. You asked "What makes a good iron plate?" but you aren't really looking to make a good plate at all. You just want a basic plate.



    If that had been stated plainly in the beginning, the responses may have been different. I still don't recommend interlocking. Body Solid makes some basic inexpensive grip plates with a painted iron finish. They should satisfy the weight is weight guys if priced right. I've seen those plates or similar plates sold by stores as their house brand.
    I was curious to see what people valued in quality iron plates. Everyone agreed that tolerances matter, both in the stated weight, and the fit on the bar. The finish was also important. Then we had disagreement on deep dish versus plates with handles. People talked about deep dish being extinct, but then others pointed out multiple examples of these plates already out there, it's just no one really wants them. Then it was revealed that really, people just want old stuff they can refinish and that says Made in USA on it, vintage, etc... so we really circled all the way around back to just personal preference on the design. We know that plates with cutouts are functionally superior, but maybe aesthetically not as pleasing (with the exception of revolvers). So the trick seems to be balancing aesthetics with function.

    The part you didn't quote from me, right above what you did quote, was this: "I think we'll probably just go with a multi-grip iron plate, machined well, low tolerances on accuracy." That isn't a good plate? That's literally the definition of what a revolver is. A basic plate is one that is cast with no machining, sloppy tolerances, and no grip cutouts. We might carry some of those too for the "iron is iron" crowd, but I would like to offer something nice too.
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  27. #87
    Registered User morebarbell's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dukenukem7777 View Post
    I was curious to see what people valued in quality iron plates. Everyone agreed that tolerances matter, both in the stated weight, and the fit on the bar. The finish was also important. Then we had disagreement on deep dish versus plates with handles. People talked about deep dish being extinct, but then others pointed out multiple examples of these plates already out there, it's just no one really wants them. Then it was revealed that really, people just want old stuff they can refinish and that says Made in USA on it, vintage, etc... so we really circled all the way around back to just personal preference on the design. We know that plates with cutouts are functionally superior, but maybe aesthetically not as pleasing (with the exception of revolvers). So the trick seems to be balancing aesthetics with function.

    The part you didn't quote from me, right above what you did quote, was this: "I think we'll probably just go with a multi-grip iron plate, machined well, low tolerances on accuracy." That isn't a good plate? That's literally the definition of what a revolver is. A basic plate is one that is cast with no machining, sloppy tolerances, and no grip cutouts. We might carry some of those too for the "iron is iron" crowd, but I would like to offer something nice too.
    I didn't mean to insinuate that you want something poor. LOL. But your questions were misleading. It's very common on forums that people ask questions in a way to generate discussion rather than get to the point. But the best answers are given when the right questions are asked.

    Everything is a matter of degree. The Body Solid iron grip plates, the Hampton HOG iron grip plates, and the Troy VTX grip plates are basically fancy consumer level plates. There are also Weider and Gold's Gym grip plates.

    Part of the quality is in the iron used (Troy lists their iron on their website). Part of the quality is in the casting process. And then there's the machining and painting. Can you share images of the products that you are considering?? That would be fun to see.

    I bought an entire crate of brand new in boxes Ivanko revolvers and I've seen many others and I can't find a single lathe mark on them. The center holes are machined. If the other surfaces are machined, I suspect they must be ground rather than lathed. The matching change (OM) are clearly machined on all surfaces. The revolvers are very nice though. Cemco's (The original Cemco company. I'm not familiar with the new Cemco) Jade grip plates are actually lathed on the surfaces.

    Cemco Power Grip plates are roughly ground with sharp edges compared to the smoother surface on the Ivanko revolvers.

    Originally Posted by morebarbell View Post


    Lathed Cemco Jade grip plates.

    Originally Posted by morebarbell View Post



    machined surface of the Ivanko OM change

    Last edited by morebarbell; 05-11-2016 at 08:34 AM.
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  28. #88
    Registered User Hardgains88's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dukenukem7777 View Post
    I was curious to see what people valued in quality iron plates. Everyone agreed that tolerances matter, both in the stated weight, and the fit on the bar. The finish was also important. Then we had disagreement on deep dish versus plates with handles. People talked about deep dish being extinct, but then others pointed out multiple examples of these plates already out there, it's just no one really wants them. Then it was revealed that really, people just want old stuff they can refinish and that says Made in USA on it, vintage, etc... so we really circled all the way around back to just personal preference on the design. We know that plates with cutouts are functionally superior, but maybe aesthetically not as pleasing (with the exception of revolvers). So the trick seems to be balancing aesthetics with function.

    The part you didn't quote from me, right above what you did quote, was this: "I think we'll probably just go with a multi-grip iron plate, machined well, low tolerances on accuracy." That isn't a good plate? That's literally the definition of what a revolver is. A basic plate is one that is cast with no machining, sloppy tolerances, and no grip cutouts. We might carry some of those too for the "iron is iron" crowd, but I would like to offer something nice too.

    Actually duke, your right on the money. Why not do a rounded cut out type that has a little of the revolver look. I think one of the reasons the revolvers look so nice is they don't have sharp edges in the design like so many other grip plates.
    I tend to agree that in plates, because of the vintage angle, what we like would not be a good indication of the general equipment buying public.
    That said, this does not cross over to other equipment and is a unique outlier with plates only. We're still collectively on the money with benches, bars, and most other equipment
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  29. #89
    Always Learning dieselmike's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dukenukem7777 View Post
    "I think we'll probably just go with a multi-grip iron plate, machined well, low tolerances on accuracy." That isn't a good plate? That's literally the definition of what a revolver is.
    Cemco made an iron revolver that was basically the same as Ivanko. Some could argue that the 6 hole design was actually better because you can grab the plate symmetrically with two hands. They have fine looking women on their web site. They are accurate, they have a good hole tolerance (the plates 2More - not the women. Get your head out of the gutter). Yet no one goes gaga over Cemco. They don't fly off Craigslist the way Ivanko Revos do. No one is creating the Official Cemco Crew Thread.

    Unfortunately name brand matters.

    Now how many of you just went to the Cemco web site for the pictures? Don't lie.

    edit: Morebarbell beat me to the Cemco comparison. But you get the point.
    Last edited by dieselmike; 05-11-2016 at 08:30 AM.
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    And looking at that Jade plate. That reminds me. I can't believe no one mentioned round plates as being a must. For me, any plate with a blunt end would be an immediate "No". This matters for anyone interested in doing lifts off the floor for anything greater than 1 Rep. i.e. Dead Lifts, Cleans, Pendlay Rows, Etc.
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