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  1. #31
    Registered User munichveteran's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jonmd123 View Post
    I know you weren't directing these towards me, but I figured I'd jump in and give my opinion.

    Overall, not too bad, but I would tweak a few things.

    1. Your set up is good, but your first motion is to shift your weight to your heels and tilting your pelvis forward. You want to maintain mid-foot pressure throughout the whole exercise. I've played around with a few different cues with the people I work with, but currently I have people start on the "balls" of their feet and then shift back as they descend, which seems to work out the best. As far as your pelvis, it isn't too bad, but by tilting forward you are basically going into a few degrees of hip flexion before you even start dropping down (I assume this would be much worse with a back squat). I would try and keep your pelvis "rolled up" to your ribcage during the descent.

    2. Towards the bottom, your hips begin to tilt posteriorly (ie butt wink) and your weight travels slightly forward. There could be many causes for this and it would be hard for me to give you any advice without looking at a few other things.

    Everything was minor, but doing a zercher squat with a light load, your reps should look really clean.
    The more the merrier! Thanks for the feedback - I appreciate it.

    I'm trying to visualize the hip hinge at the start of the squat, whilst trying to keep my pelvis rolled up toward my ribcage at the same time. I understand the concept and the reason why it would help, but I'm not sure I'm coordinated enough to pull that off.

    Yes, one of the main reasons I stopped back squatting was because the angle of my hip hinge was just way too severe for me to handle. I just couldn't get the mechanics down.

    As for the butt wink, yeah...I haven't quite figured out what the limitation is there, but isn't that just my hips being pulled forward because I have an exaggerated anterior tilt, and there's no ROM left?
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  2. #32
    Strength Coach jonmd123's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by munichveteran View Post
    The more the merrier! Thanks for the feedback - I appreciate it.

    I'm trying to visualize the hip hinge at the start of the squat, whilst trying to keep my pelvis rolled up toward my ribcage at the same time. I understand the concept and the reason why it would help, but I'm not sure I'm coordinated enough to pull that off.

    Yes, one of the main reasons I stopped back squatting was because the angle of my hip hinge was just way too severe for me to handle. I just couldn't get the mechanics down.

    As for the butt wink, yeah...I haven't quite figured out what the limitation is there, but isn't that just my hips being pulled forward because I have an exaggerated anterior tilt, and there's no ROM left?
    Check out the video at the end of this article - http://www.dreesperformance.com/arti...-cues-to-avoid


    On the last question...the short answer: yes

    The long answer:

    1. It could be a tissue length issue, where your body simply can't stretch any longer (very rare).
    2. It could be a mobility/stability issue, where your body tightens up when going through the movement (probably most likely).
    3. It could be a hip flexor strength issue, where your hip flexors are not strong enough in the end range to hold your hips/back in position (more common than you would think).
    4. It could be a combination of 2 or more of these things.

    There are tests you can do to pin-point the issue, but that goes a little beyond what I can explain and have time for on this forum.
    www.dreesperformance.com
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  3. #33
    I need about tree fiddy davisj3537's Avatar
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    Jon made a pretty big point on the buttwink. He obviously talked about a myriad of other things as well, but that's what I'm going to zone in on. Another reason this may be happening is your femur is hitting the acetabular and you run out of range of motion. This is what develops FAI in the first place so we know this was happening regularly at some point, though you may have been doing it sitting around the house. Hard to pinpoint exactly when/how you developed the buildup on your femur.

    I do think it's pretty hard to believe that with such an upright torso you're hitting the acetabular. Zercher squats literally have the least flexion of any squat I can think of at the moment. Having said this I think it is more likely your buttwink issue lies elsewhere, BUT since this is still a possibility I'd avoid buttwink at all costs. Even though this is unlikely if you're hitting the boney buildup your FAI is going to get worse.

    In this case I'd rebuild your zercher from the ground up. Until you can bodyweight without buttwink don't add weight. Do some mobility routines before squatting, try out the posterior capsule stretch in the video I first uploaded, keep your core nice and tight through the movement...etc. I didn't watch the video Jon posted, but it may be helpful as well.
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  4. #34
    Registered User munichveteran's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by davisj3537 View Post
    Jon made a pretty big point on the buttwink. He obviously talked about a myriad of other things as well, but that's what I'm going to zone in on. Another reason this may be happening is your femur is hitting the acetabular and you run out of range of motion. This is what develops FAI in the first place so we know this was happening regularly at some point, though you may have been doing it sitting around the house. Hard to pinpoint exactly when/how you developed the buildup on your femur.

    I do think it's pretty hard to believe that with such an upright torso you're hitting the acetabular. Zercher squats literally have the least flexion of any squat I can think of at the moment. Having said this I think it is more likely your buttwink issue lies elsewhere, BUT since this is still a possibility I'd avoid buttwink at all costs. Even though this is unlikely if you're hitting the boney buildup your FAI is going to get worse.

    In this case I'd rebuild your zercher from the ground up. Until you can bodyweight without buttwink don't add weight. Do some mobility routines before squatting, try out the posterior capsule stretch in the video I first uploaded, keep your core nice and tight through the movement...etc. I didn't watch the video Jon posted, but it may be helpful as well.
    Haven’t had a chance to watch the video Jon provided yet, but I’ve read the article (and also watched the video Davis posted), and I think I’m dealing with what Davis suggested here. I think my femur is hitting the acetabular when I approach parallel.

    I was never able to put my finger on why I couldn’t increase my ROM beyond parallel. I thought it was an overall mobility issue, but it would make sense that the injury is the reason why. Even if it’s just a possibility, it’s pretty dumb to keep at it.

    It’s difficult to assess it, because I never experience pain during the actual movement, only a few hours after, and then it aches for a couple of days. If I had pain while performing the exercise, obviously it would easier to diagnose the problem.

    I experimented this week by nixing the zerchers and replacing with Bulgarian Split Squats. I have no pain in my hip today, and instead, I have major DOMS in my inner quads and glutes! Interesting!

    Any thoughts on Split Squats? I’ve only tried them twice but it could be a keeper. My form is poor so I’ll work on that. Really shaky on the way down, and my back leg also becomes fatigued for some reason, but the fact the hip pain seems to have gone away already is a great sign, and the muscle pain makes me wonder what I’ve been doing wrong on squats in general.

    Also, I found a guy trained in Postural Restoration (as well as Functional Movement) and I have an appointment to see him on 4/3. Feels like progress already.

    Thanks again for the tips guys. This forum is such a phenomenal resource. Wish I’d found it years ago.
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  5. #35
    I need about tree fiddy davisj3537's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by munichveteran View Post
    Haven’t had a chance to watch the video Jon provided yet, but I’ve read the article (and also watched the video Davis posted), and I think I’m dealing with what Davis suggested here. I think my femur is hitting the acetabular when I approach parallel.

    I was never able to put my finger on why I couldn’t increase my ROM beyond parallel. I thought it was an overall mobility issue, but it would make sense that the injury is the reason why. Even if it’s just a possibility, it’s pretty dumb to keep at it.

    It’s difficult to assess it, because I never experience pain during the actual movement, only a few hours after, and then it aches for a couple of days. If I had pain while performing the exercise, obviously it would easier to diagnose the problem.

    I experimented this week by nixing the zerchers and replacing with Bulgarian Split Squats. I have no pain in my hip today, and instead, I have major DOMS in my inner quads and glutes! Interesting!

    Any thoughts on Split Squats? I’ve only tried them twice but it could be a keeper. My form is poor so I’ll work on that. Really shaky on the way down, and my back leg also becomes fatigued for some reason, but the fact the hip pain seems to have gone away already is a great sign, and the muscle pain makes me wonder what I’ve been doing wrong on squats in general.

    Also, I found a guy trained in Postural Restoration (as well as Functional Movement) and I have an appointment to see him on 4/3. Feels like progress already.

    Thanks again for the tips guys. This forum is such a phenomenal resource. Wish I’d found it years ago.
    The guy you've got an apt with should be able to assess your hips and femoral head position. He'll also be able to identify your hip neutrality and tell you what he feels are and are not safe exercises.

    Good luck man.
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  6. #36
    Registered User munichveteran's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by davisj3537 View Post
    The guy you've got an apt with should be able to assess your hips and femoral head position. He'll also be able to identify your hip neutrality and tell you what he feels are and are not safe exercises.

    Good luck man.
    Figured I'd provide an update on this thread, although it might be worth starting a fresh thread as others may benefit from the detail as I learn more.

    Had my first appointment with the PT today, and I was taken aback by how positive he was. Seems my hip mobility is better than his, my hip hinge is solid, and he's only mildly concerned about the FAI/labral tear.

    He thinks the bigger issues are poor ankle flexion (around 10 degrees), poor thoracic extension, and poor core stability. That's where he wants to focus our time. He also mentioned TFL issues. We worked on a few things for an hour, but what amazed me the most was when he had me do a bodyweight squat with my arms in an overhead position. I got nowhere near parallel. Then, we tried it with my arms in-front of me. Slight improvement, but then we did the same again and he held my arms to provide stability. I was able to get way below parallel and it felt great. He let go of me (he warned me first!), and I immediately fell backwards. Basically, no core stability, therefore my squat doesn't stand a chance.

    He's going to email me with a full debrief (he hit me with A LOT of information) of which mobility exercises to work on and how to progress, but tomorrow, because I'm keen to continue squatting while working on all of the above, he wants me to raise my heels with 10lb plates and work on light goblet squats as a crutch. He's sure I can get under the bar again, and he advised against considering surgery until we explore rehabbing these other areas.
    Last edited by munichveteran; 04-03-2016 at 07:58 PM.
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