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    Lightbulb [Guide] Detailed Kratom guide on kratom usage. Long-read.

    2-26-16 8pm EST: currently doing another AMA until sometime Saturday morning, feel free to ask me any questions, and I'll do my best to answer them.

    Been seeing a lot of brahs wondering about this stuff, and I thought I should make a detailed guide about kratom to aware everyone on the misc. Been using it for over half a year now. Great stuff.

    What is Kratom?

    “Mitragyna speciosa also known as ketum, kratom and kratumum, is a tropical deciduous and evergreen tree in the coffee family (Rubiaceae) native to Southeast Asia in the Indochina and Malaysia floristic regions.” -Wiki




    Working out while on kratom

    It works amazingly, serious. You don't feel any soreness after doing a heavy set, and you can keep going longer doing heavier sets than you're usually capable of doing. You have more energy, and way less of the soreness. It is important to note NOT to overextend though, if you overextend and do too much in a session it'll mess you up.


    Social anxiety, and awkwardness

    It fixes both right away, after the kratom sets in (which takes around 30 mins for the onset to begin) you'll feel very enticed to talk to people, do stuff, and generally have a fun time. It removes all mental barriers that would otherwise deter you from making conversation with others. Same way phenibut does, but by a different effect.


    Headshops

    Try to stay clear from those, they ALWAYS overcharge, and the quality is usually sub-par, on the internet you can find 1 kilo for $100 of average quality. In headshops it's closer to <50 grams for the same price, and is also of sub-par below-avg quality.


    When ordering from online sources:

    DO NOT mention anything relating to consumption to vendors, if you do they'll not only ignore your questions but might also flat out refuse to sell to you, this is because of the grey area kratom currently is in and until further legislation changes this, stay clear from asking vendors about intake/how to use/effects.


    Different types of kratom strains:

    Kratom is divided into 3 different strains depending on the color of the actual leaf veins before they are powderized, those 3 types are:

    White=most energetic
    Green=50/50 energetic/relaxing
    Red=most relaxing

    Keep in mind that doesn't mean a White strain is guaranteed to be energetic, there is only a very slight difference, most people can't even truly feel it, but it is still there, if you take a higher dosage of a white it'll still work as a red, the differences are very subtle.


    Extract/Tincture

    Kratom extract is extracted from the powdered leaf using a variety of methods. The general rule is 10 grams of leaf are used to make 1 gram of extract. This doesn't however mean that 1 gram of extract=strong as 10 grams of leaf. Around 25% of the strength is lost in the extraction process, so that means 1 gram of extract=7.5 grams of leaf.

    If you're new stay away from the extracts and tinctures, they'll raise your tolerance through the roof, and make you unable to get off the leaf alone. This is because it is much easier to consume the extract worth of plan leaf than it is to consume the actual leaf of that same amount, use very sparingly.


    Where to buy?

    Buying online is always the best method, here are some sites that I've used, there are many more, but these are the ones I personally like:

    http://allnaturalartisan.com/ <--------- pricey, but highest quality leaf on the market in relation to its price, this is probably the best source when comparing quality/money

    http://www.herbal-salvation.com/prod...p-ingredients/ <----------- slightly above average with decent prices, they sell a measuring spoon that I'll recommend everyone to buy, it works better than your average teaspoon.

    https://www.socalherbalremedies.com/...t_type=product <------------- sells $25 1/4th kilo of average quality kratom, along with better stuff but pricier.

    http://www.mmmspeciosa.com/kratom.html <---------------- generally good stuff all-around

    https://buy-kratom.us/ <-------------- huge selection of $29 ¼th kilo kratom.


    Consumption: When?

    Kratom works differently depending on your food intake for the day. It works best in the mornings on an empty stomach, because that's when the stomach is the most acidic, acid=greater absorption. It works the least when taken after a huge meal, usually this is the rough outline I follow when I take it:

    Mornings before breakfast=Best effect
    Heavy meal=4-5 hours after
    Moderate meal=2-3 hours after
    Light meal=1-2 hours after

    I'd also like to mention that sold kratom consists of powdered leaf, which has a very grainy sand-like texture to it.

    Consumption: How?

    Kratom tastes like chit, not only that but it's very hard near impossible to just throw some powdered leaf into your mouth and swallow it, that never works. There are several methods of intake:

    Toss and Wash:

    This is the easiest and fastest one. You put some kratom in your mouth then take a glass of water and chug it down, it'll be very hard to get over the taste, and it's sand-like grainy consistency at first, I would not recommend this method for beginners.

    IMPORTANT

    When intaking kratom by any methods other than the toss and wash method, it is important for you to keep a separate glass of water near you. What I do is I keep my glass with the kratom inside on my right-hand side of the desk, and my glass with water inside on the left-hand side.

    I take a moderate sized sip from my kratom glass, hold it in my mouth, then immediately after I take another sip from my water, then I chug down both the kratom and water at the same time, this way it makes it a lot easier to chug it down, if you only use your kratom glass it'll be very difficult, especially for a beginner, to chug down the sludgy residue that forms on the bottom.

    Another trick is having a spoon near you, and giving your glass with the kratom inside a good stir every 3-4 minutes, if you don't do this the powdery sludge will steep to the bottom of the glass, and then once you get down to it, it'll be impossible to consume which will drastically cut down on the effects of your kratom since the sludge holds the most effects. It takes me a good 2-3 glasses of water to be able to chug down 1 glass of kratom.

    It also prevents dehydration, kratom is a very dehydrating substance, if you don't drink it with plenty of liquid you'll experience a slight headache.


    Cover-up the taste with juice

    If you want to avoid its unpleasant taste the best way of doing so would be to pour some orange or apple juice into a glass and dump your kratom inside the juice, stir, wait around 15 minutes for the kratom to steep into the glass, (no matter how hard you stir it, it takes time for the powder to really steep into the juice, if you don't wait it'll stay on top and you ain't getting it into the actual juice).

    Tea

    Another method of intake is tea. Just boil some water and dump your kratom into the boiled water, stir, and wait until the water cools down enough for you to be able to consume it, make sure you also consume the powdery sludge residue because even after being boiled, a part of the effects still remain in the left-over kratom.

    Capsules

    Another way of doing this is by buying empty gelatin capsules and packing the powder in yourself. This method usually is not preferred unless you're on the go, because oftentimes the result is unstable, due to the capsule having to melt off first in your stomach, and lack of water, which will cause dehydration.

    Grapefruit juice

    This doesn't mask it well at all, but it does amplify its effects quite a bit. Don't use this for at least 4-5 months, you want to save this off for when your tolerance raises a bit, think of it as a free card of sorts.

    Dosage:

    Mainly depends on what kind of effect you're trying to get from it. General rule of thumb is: the less you take the more energetic is, meanwhile the more you take the more sedating/relaxing it is. With that being said:

    1-2 Grams: Energetic, feels like coffee in a way.
    3-5+ Grams: Sedating, feels very relaxing.

    It is important to note those are the average amounts for most, this means it is different for everyone, some people get off on 2 grams, while others need over 6 for the same effects, it's up to you to find your sweet spot.

    IF THIS IS YOUR FIRST TIME DON'T TAKE MORE THAN 1-2 GRAMS, otherwise there are going to be some nasty side effects.

    Measurement

    THIS IS IMPORTANT, it is best to buy a measuring spoon such as this one http://www.herbal-salvation.com/shop/kava-kava/spoon/ to make better measurements, but a regular teaspoon also does the trick, if you can't decide if you're taking the right amount with a regular teaspoon always go for the lower amount.

    Consumption: How often?

    The best rule of thumb for this is 1 day on, 2 days off, meaning for every time you take it, don't take it again for another 2 days afterwards, that way your tolerance is going to remain low for quite some time. Also take a full 1 week break every 3 months for further help.

    Tolerance

    First off I want to mention that you can't overdose on kratom, its physically impossible. If you take too much at once you will physically vomit out the leaf, and be done with it, there have been no deaths related directed to kratom, what I mean by that is no one has died while taking kratom by itself.

    It is important to note that the cases mentioned on the internet ALWAYS involve other substances being mixed WITH the kratom, those other substances are the reason, NOT the kratom itself, make this distinction.

    You are going to develop some tolerance no matter what you do, but these methods are going to slow it down drastically.

    Agmatine Sulfate: a good supplement all around, take 500 mg half an hour before kratom intake.

    Turmeric extract: lowers tolerance as well, take 1 capsule after a meal, amplifies kratom's effect

    Magnesium: another great supplement, also amplifies effect.

    It is IMPORTANT to note that you should NOT use any of these substances right away, wait at least 4-5 months into your usage before taking any of them. Always rotate them, because sooner or later they'll slowly stop working in reducing your tolerance but it'll take a while for that to happen.

    Side effects

    There are some side effects if you take too much. For instance if you overdo it you'll vomit out the leaf, you'll also get strong nausea, and even a headache is not out of the question, don't overdo it, it is better to take less than it is to take more.

    Long-term tolerance effects

    There are some long-term side effects you'll get if you use too much, and don't take breaks too often. They aren't too bad though. If you take a week off to reset your tolerance after half a year of use, depending on how often you used it/amounts it could consist of 4-5 days worth of slight depression, lethargy, anxiety, and tiredness.

    The best way to get through them is to make sure you're always doing stuff, such as working-out, and not staying in bed. The effects are either way mild in nature, BUT they'll get worse the longer you keep using the substance. As long as you don't overdo it, and you haven't been using it for years it should not get too bad.

    Always remember the 1 day on, 2 days off rule.

    Duration?

    The strongest part of the effect lasts around 1-2 hours depending on dosage. Then after that it has a half-life where it gets weaker by the hour, and it lasts another 8 hours or so. Total time no more than 10 hours.

    You can take it before bed if you've had a really stressful day and need something to calm you down and relax your nerves. Especially a red strain, those work really well before bed.
    Last edited by Talius; 02-26-2016 at 05:10 PM.
    “What man can you show me who places any value on his time, who reckons the worth of each day, who understands that he is dying daily? For we are mistaken when we look forward to death; the major portion of death has already passed, Whatever years be behind us are in death's hands.”
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    everyday in cuzziling Triceptops's Avatar
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    Any aus brahs tried any?
    I'd like to try. just not sure if can get it across the water./
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    Cool User Title amirite Talius's Avatar
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    I shoulda made this clearer in the original post, but I was being too vague, so I'll do so here:

    Withdrawal Potential:

    There is definitely the potential to develop some addiction along with withdrawals, but it should be noted it's relatively mild compared to other opiates, it is closer to a coffee addiction than it is to a true opiate addiction. But the potential is still there nonetheless.

    That is not to say it'll definitely happen, and be a full-blown nightmare, but all it means is that you could feel some unwanted side effects for a few days, but nothing too overblown. Don't be worried about this if you follow this guide, it'll be a breeze.

    Best ways to avoid addiction is to avoid using any sort of extract/tincture/VivaZen, basically anything that is not plain leaf don't use at all.

    Always remember the 1 day on, 2 days off rule, and try not to take more than 5 grams/day, with that being said it's different for everyone in terms of dosage. Some people get off on 15 grams, meanwhile others need 5 grams.

    In a lot of cases it boils down to the person's body composition, such as their height, weight, the way their individual brain works, and substances they've used prior to kratom, if they used kratom to get off another substance, their baseline amount is going to be a lot higher than someone who's never done any other substance consistently. Everyone has their own sweetspot, so amounts vary between individuals.

    An important thing you can do to help yourself is to set a threshold amount and not exceed it. Like if your sweet spot is 5grams, always take 5grams, do not ever exceed it.

    Like any other substance, be it alcohol, or tobacco, if you abuse it you'll pay the price for doing so.

    With that being said, withdrawals are relatively mild, most are internal, meaning mental, there aren't really many physical/external symptoms. Internal effects consist of mild depression, anxiety, lethargy, no energy, no motivation. It doesn't last more than a few days at worst either way. If I had to compare it to something, it feels like having a mild cold, but without your throat hurting, and no runny nose/fever. Just feeling altogether crappy, but very mild regardless.

    Always remember to take 1-2 weeks off every 2-3 months.

    If you follow this guide, even after half a year of usage you shouldn't get more than a few down days on your off weeks, but those aren't a pain to deal with for the most part in comparison to other harder substances, they just feel like chitty days for the most part, rather than anything else, and know that by the end of the week you'll get through them and everything will be back to normal.

    Just remember that like any other substance (cigs, alcohol, phenibut), if you abuse it and take way more than you should it could turn bad, but that's on you.

    But DO NOT increase your amount of leaf after finding your sweetspot, and DO NOT use anything but plain leaf, if you do that the withdrawal is going to be worse, especially if non-leaf is added into the mix. Take heed.
    Last edited by Talius; 02-26-2016 at 12:45 AM.
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    Cool User Title amirite Talius's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Triceptops View Post
    Any aus brahs tried any?
    I'd like to try. just not sure if can get it across the water./
    Nvm I just did some research, and it's banned in AUS. Sorry brah.
    “What man can you show me who places any value on his time, who reckons the worth of each day, who understands that he is dying daily? For we are mistaken when we look forward to death; the major portion of death has already passed, Whatever years be behind us are in death's hands.”
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    So would I take a red strain for social anxiety?
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    Cool User Title amirite Talius's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by riley444 View Post
    So would I take a red strain for social anxiety?
    I'd go with either a white or a green honestly, I usually save reds for bed time/chillaxing, but if you were to take a really small amount of a red, like 1-1.5 grams it shouldn't make you too sleepy, it would work like 2-3 grams of a white. Generally the differences between strains boil down to the amount taken, and no more than 1-2 grams at the highest.
    “What man can you show me who places any value on his time, who reckons the worth of each day, who understands that he is dying daily? For we are mistaken when we look forward to death; the major portion of death has already passed, Whatever years be behind us are in death's hands.”
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    15 g's a day crew, combine with nyquil (w/ dxm) and grapefruit juice for that opiate feel. This goes against the nature of the product though lol...
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    Cool User Title amirite Talius's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by zwdog1122 View Post
    15 g's a day crew, combine with nyquil (w/ dxm) and grapefruit juice for that opiate feel. This goes against the nature of the product though lol...
    How on earth do you take 15g's day?? The most I've taken in the same day has been 6 grams and I was out of it for the duration of the day. lol
    “What man can you show me who places any value on his time, who reckons the worth of each day, who understands that he is dying daily? For we are mistaken when we look forward to death; the major portion of death has already passed, Whatever years be behind us are in death's hands.”
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    Good luck with your Opiate addiction goals of 2016.
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    Cool User Title amirite Talius's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by chroneos View Post
    Good luck with your Opiate addiction goals of 2016.
    Kratom is used by people to get them off opiates, it's nothing like a real opiate. You could only get a really bad addiction if you abuse the chit out of it, otherwise you're good.
    “What man can you show me who places any value on his time, who reckons the worth of each day, who understands that he is dying daily? For we are mistaken when we look forward to death; the major portion of death has already passed, Whatever years be behind us are in death's hands.”
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    Originally Posted by Talius View Post
    How on earth do you take 15g's day?? The most I've taken in the same day has been 6 grams and I was out of it for the duration of the day. lol
    I used it to kick a heroin addiction, I dont do that much any more lol. The constipation was terrible and its hard on the stomach. I know people that use it every day though and the good thing about it is it takes forever to build a tolerance. Its really just another addiction though if you do it every day, like coffee or cigs.
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    Unregistered User Armord's Avatar
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    What does it do to give you that anxiolytic affect?

    Sure I could google it but this is more fun lol

    edit: pls be specific. For example, Phenibut is a Gaba-b agonist.
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    Cool User Title amirite Talius's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Armord View Post
    What does it do to give you that anxiolytic affect?

    Sure I could google it but this is more fun lol

    edit: pls be specific. For example, Phenibut is a Gaba-b agonist.

    It effects the Mu and Delta opioid receptors in the brain.

    The active alkaloids connect to the mu opioid receptors, some alkaloids go to the kappa opioid receptors instead, but there are over 25 different alkaloids in the plant.
    “What man can you show me who places any value on his time, who reckons the worth of each day, who understands that he is dying daily? For we are mistaken when we look forward to death; the major portion of death has already passed, Whatever years be behind us are in death's hands.”
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    Originally Posted by Talius View Post
    It effects the Mu and Delta opioid receptors in the brain.
    interdasting. repped
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    Originally Posted by Armord View Post
    interdasting. repped
    I did a ninja edit with a bit more information, what do you think of my guide? (thx for rep)
    “What man can you show me who places any value on his time, who reckons the worth of each day, who understands that he is dying daily? For we are mistaken when we look forward to death; the major portion of death has already passed, Whatever years be behind us are in death's hands.”
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    That was super heavy.. FMCMuscle's Avatar
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    How long does the effect last?
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    Originally Posted by FMCMuscle View Post
    How long does the effect last?
    The strongest part of the effect probably around 1-2 hours depending on dosage. Then after that it has a half-life where it gets weaker by the hour, and it lasts another 8 hours or so. Total time no more than 10 hours.

    You can take it before bed if you've had a really stressful day and need something to calm you down and relax your nerves. Especially a red strain, those work really well before bed.
    “What man can you show me who places any value on his time, who reckons the worth of each day, who understands that he is dying daily? For we are mistaken when we look forward to death; the major portion of death has already passed, Whatever years be behind us are in death's hands.”
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    Forgot to mention this: Makes you last longer if you're fapping or having sex. Also makes the orgasm feel 5x better than usual one.
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    I really don't like kratom, but I've only tried one strain Maengda Thai or w/e it's called. Probably won't be trying any others as it's expensive and not very promising. Just my opinion
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    Originally Posted by imbored21 View Post
    I really don't like kratom, but I've only tried one strain Maengda Thai or w/e it's called. Probably won't be trying any others as it's expensive and not very promising. Just my opinion
    What source did you buy it off? If it was from a headshop then I can see that, but even from an online vendor it's always hit-or-miss, it's not always going to work the way you wanted it to 100% of the time, it also depends on the amount, how you took it, and sometimes the kratom is from a bad batch that doesn't really work that well, albeit this very rarely happens. Too many factors that go towards the final effect to simply write it off like that.

    And I'm not sure why you think it's expensive. There are 2 sites in my OP that show where to buy 1/4th of a kilo for both $25 and $29, do you know how long that lasts you?? Usually a month if you're a very active user, but if you're normal/below-avg user could last you 3-4 months.
    “What man can you show me who places any value on his time, who reckons the worth of each day, who understands that he is dying daily? For we are mistaken when we look forward to death; the major portion of death has already passed, Whatever years be behind us are in death's hands.”
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    Unregistered User Armord's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Talius View Post
    I did a ninja edit with a bit more information, what do you think of my guide? (thx for rep)
    10/10

    It covers what it is, what it does and where to buy it.

    Also thanks for giving tips on taking it and how to avoid tolerance.

    Super interested right now.. I currently take 2-5 grams of phenibut daily and it's great but the magic is gone. It would be really nice if I could sub in something else, such as kratom, to help lower tolerance. Sounds like this plant is used specifically to cure the exact same symptoms of phenibut withdrawal.
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    Originally Posted by Armord View Post
    10/10

    It covers what it is, what it does and where to buy it.

    Also thanks for giving tips on taking it and how to avoid tolerance.

    Super interested right now.. I currently take 2-5 grams of phenibut daily and it's great but the magic is gone. It would be really nice if I could sub in something else, such as kratom, to help lower tolerance. Sounds like this plant is used specifically to cure the exact same symptoms of phenibut withdrawal.
    I used to take phenibut for a few months before I discovered kratom last year but it never worked well for me at all. It usually ended up giving me a massive headache, and dissociation if I took more than a gram, but when I took less than a gram the effects of it were so subtle I barely could feel anything. Haven't taken it in months, kratom is just that much better.

    Btw thanks for showing some love to my guide. Repped.
    “What man can you show me who places any value on his time, who reckons the worth of each day, who understands that he is dying daily? For we are mistaken when we look forward to death; the major portion of death has already passed, Whatever years be behind us are in death's hands.”
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    MISCERS READ !! :

    This is a very irresponsible post on the OP's behalf and shows a clear lack of research and duty on his part. Kratom acts as an opiod agonist on your brains receptors, meaning it acts just like morphine/heroin chemically. Prolonged use will cause dependency and major withdrawal symptoms if you were to stop suddenly. It has an addictive property considering it is an opioid agonist and bc it is addictive, is a progressive habit. It can become very expensive for the user, and have far reaching external side effects. No matter what you put in your body, always remember that anything that alters your mind/consciousness will have negative effects to counter any positives. For any good feelings you 'loan' out through chemical use, you will pay that loan back in chitty feelings

    http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/...tom-Withdrawal

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    R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution FIREnICE's Avatar
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    i've been reading some accounts that it helps with weight loss?

    or is that just a side effect from the extra energy and desire to do things?
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    Originally Posted by BearTactics View Post
    MISCERS READ !! :

    This is a very irresponsible post on the OP's behalf and shows a clear lack of research and duty on his part. Kratom acts as an opiod agonist on your brains receptors, meaning it acts just like morphine/heroin chemically. Prolonged use will cause dependency and major withdrawal symptoms if you were to stop suddenly. It has an addictive property considering it is an opioid agonist and bc it is addictive, is a progressive habit. It can become very expensive for the user, and have far reaching external side effects. No matter what you put in your body, always remember that anything that alters your mind/consciousness will have negative effects to counter any positives. For any good feelings you 'loan' out through chemical use, you will pay that loan back in chitty feelings

    http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/...tom-Withdrawal

    http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/...tom-withdrawal
    Just cause you linked to 2 threads, doesn't make them true. First off kratom does work in the same way as those 2 substances you mentioned BUT the difference is it's very much watered down. It glosses over the opioid receptors in the brain rather than going at them at full-force, not to mention it's an opioid NOT an opiate, there's a difference between the 2 terms.

    Second of all yes it is addictive, but that term is ambigious, coffee is addictive, same goes for cigs.

    It can become very expensive for the user, and have far reaching external side effects.
    This is straight up bullchit. You can't physically ingest more than a certain amount of leaf even if you wanted to. There's alkoloid in the plant that prevents you doing that and if you do you'll throw up.

    And you mention expensive?? I can find 1/4th of a kilo for $25 easily, how is that expensive?? People can't really ingest more than 20 grams per day anyway, that still adds up to about 2 weeks which $25 (BTW I've also seen sites where a whole kilo goes for $71, just couldn't find them), is that really expensive??

    An addicted cig smoker that smokes an entire pack per day, thats like what $8 pack? You do the math as to which is more expensive.

    BTW Vice article on kratom: http://www.vice.com/read/why-banning...heroin-addicts

    And the side effects are mainly internal, which I did go over in my OP. Yes there are some bad side-effects, but I've been taking kratom for over half a year now more often than I should, and haven't had any EXTERNAL side effects, only internal.
    “What man can you show me who places any value on his time, who reckons the worth of each day, who understands that he is dying daily? For we are mistaken when we look forward to death; the major portion of death has already passed, Whatever years be behind us are in death's hands.”
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    Originally Posted by Talius View Post
    Kratom is used by people to get them off opiates, it's nothing like a real opiate. You could only get a really bad addiction if you abuse the chit out of it, otherwise you're good.
    Kratom was a god send while going through heroin withdrawals. Symptoms were minimized greatly.
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    Originally Posted by FIREnICE View Post
    i've been reading some accounts that it helps with weight loss?

    or is that just a side effect from the extra energy and desire to do things?
    Depends how you go about the term weight loss. Kratom suppresses the desire to eat food. Even if you're feeling really hungry and take some kratom it'll stop that feeling of hunger so you could skip a meal every day, that's how I see it when it comes to weight loss.
    “What man can you show me who places any value on his time, who reckons the worth of each day, who understands that he is dying daily? For we are mistaken when we look forward to death; the major portion of death has already passed, Whatever years be behind us are in death's hands.”
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    Originally Posted by Talius View Post
    Depends how you go about the term weight loss. Kratom suppresses the desire to eat food. Even if you're feeling really hungry and take some kratom it'll stop that feeling of hunger so you could skip a meal every day, that's how I see it when it comes to weight loss.
    Ok I'm sold.

    Which site would you reccommend of the ones you've listed?

    I'd like a nice balance of quality and affordability. Oh, think high quantity/volume too

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