Attempting LCHF - disaster so far

[mirgee]

Three days ago, I decided to try low carb diet, out of curiosity. So far, it has been a disaster. Note that I am used to about 2000 cal/day, with prot/carb/fat 120/300/70.

On the first day, I ate 3900 cal, 232/274/222, because at night I was craving cashews so much I binged on a whole 250 g bag of them, worth about 1500 cals. I think this is because my body went after the starches...

The next day was OK, my body was still recovering from the binge and I wasn't very hungry.

But today was a disaster... I ate 4800 cals, 300/232/322, again, these damn cashews... I destroyed 350 g bag + half a bag of peanuts with plenty of full fat cottage cheese at night...

I am afraid I have a binge eating disorder. On my previous, almost vegan low fat diet, when I was bingeing on fruits and vegetables, it wasn't as dangerous as it is on LCHF, as they are not as fattening as nuts. Maybe it's that when on the previous diet, nuts were almost not 'allowed', so even when I ate a very small amount, I felt guilty of cheating, whereas now they're 'allowed'... This is one of the reasons I wanted to try LCHF - I loooove nuts!

Are these symptoms normal when transitioning? Was any of you guys craving nuts when starting out? How did you get them under control? Do you have any tips?

I read that calories from nuts are not fully absorbed by the body (due to thermogenic effect, increased metabolic rate and fat locked in cell membrances preventing digestive tract to absorb it properly). Do any of you have any experience with diet high in nuts and weight gain?

Also, do any of you have similar experience to this guy: live.smashthefat.com/why-i-didnt-get-fat/ ? This would make me a little less anxious about the excessive calories I end up consuming on high fat diet.

If this is not normal, I probably do have BED. Do you think I should not attempt LCHF then?

I attach a photo of at the beginning of the experiment - for future reference, in case I decide to go on with it.

[chris2332]

Never had an issue to be fair, however at which point did you try to have low carbs during the day? Both days you had 270 and 230 grams of carbs.

When we say low carb we mean less than 50gr (in my case I stay less than 20gr) a day.

[jonnyscottish]

Hey, I think the issue here may be that you have not set any goals for yourself. What are you trying to achieve, fat loss, muscle build, maintain? If you want to do keto get yourself on a keto calculator website (google it, the site won't let me post a link) and set yourself a calorie goal and macros goals. Once you have that in place you should find it much easier. I am doing keto at the moment and I have the opposite problem, I am hardly ever hungry so need to remember to eat. The thought of bingeing on nuts wouldn't even occur to me. As the previous post states your carbs are way to high and also so is your protein. If you want your body to start synthesising the fat then you will need to rethink your approach. Hope this helps. Thanks

[Mrpb]

You're 22 years old, 5'10", 154 lbs and your body fat is below 10%.

Why on earth are you dieting? And why keto? It doesn't make any sense.

Keto is useful for people who don't tolerate carbs well. Not you. Your insulin sensitivity is probably great. Take advantage of it.

This is one of the reasons I wanted to try LCHF - I loooove nuts!

This doesn't make sense. You can eat as much nuts as you want while still eating carbs. There's no need to keep fat low.

[mirgee]

You're 22 years old, 5'10", 154 lbs and your body fat is below 10%.

Why on earth are you dieting? And why keto? It doesn't make any sense.

Keto is useful for people who don't tolerate carbs well. Not you. Your insulin sensitivity is probably great. Take advantage of it.



This doesn't make sense. You can eat as much nuts as you want while still eating carbs. There's no need to keep fat low.

Thanks man, maybe that's what I needed to hear. I will explain my reasons anyway:

I haven't had my BF% measured, but I doubt it's below 10%. I have been attempting a very slow bulk, but, due to frequent binges (used to have anorexia followed by BED I never really cured), gained muscle/fat ratio was too low, so I am looking for a way to mini cut. My blood glucose levels are fluctuating wildly around meals (highs and crashes), so LCHF seems like a thing to try.

That being said. I think you have a point. Maybe I should rethink this.

[mirgee]

Hey, I think the issue here may be that you have not set any goals for yourself. What are you trying to achieve, fat loss, muscle build, maintain? If you want to do keto get yourself on a keto calculator website (google it, the site won't let me post a link) and set yourself a calorie goal and macros goals. Once you have that in place you should find it much easier. I am doing keto at the moment and I have the opposite problem, I am hardly ever hungry so need to remember to eat. The thought of bingeing on nuts wouldn't even occur to me. As the previous post states your carbs are way to high and also so is your protein. If you want your body to start synthesising the fat then you will need to rethink your approach. Hope this helps. Thanks

Well, I went into this with the goal of carbs below 100 g a day, intending to decrease this as I go along. But the carbs shot up after the cashew binge of course.

And you don't get hungry even after an intense workout? I can feel my body craving fast source of energy then.

[Mrpb]

Thanks man, maybe that's what I needed to hear. I will explain my reasons anyway:

I haven't had my BF% measured, but I doubt it's below 10%.

You look about 8-9%. I'm pretty much certain you are not higher than 10%. Too much abdominal definition and vascularity for that.

I have been attempting a very slow bulk, but, due to frequent binges (used to have anorexia followed by BED I never really cured), gained muscle/fat ratio was too low, so I am looking for a way to mini cut.

Horrible idea both physiologically and psychologically. At your current body fat level dieting will have negative impact on your hormones. This can likely explain why you resort to binging.

With your psychological background it's also a bad idea to attempt to get leaner.

Read this please:http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...-changes.html/

My blood glucose levels are fluctuating wildly around meals (highs and crashes), so LCHF seems like a thing to try.

No need to go that low in carbs. Instead of eating 300 carbs try half of it. Up your fats.

Most important thing though is that you stop cutting. It's counterproductive on many levels.

[mirgee]

Your arguments are reasonable (I will definitely read the article you linked), but a thing to consider is that I gained 20 pounds in the last three months. I have overdone bulking once and don't want to do it again. I didn't get to the BF% I am at without effort. Believe me, I can eat - I can also look like this (see attachment). I may be lean now, but I also want to stay that way.

[Mrpb]

Your arguments are reasonable (I will definitely read the article you linked), but a thing to consider is that I gained 20 pounds in the last three months. I have overdone bulking once and don't want to do it again. I didn't get to the BF% I am at without effort. Believe me, I can eat - I can also look like this (see attachment). I may be lean now, but I also want to stay that way.

OK I understand. But keep in mind you can stay lean if your surplus is small enough.

At your stats you could probably stay lean at around 2600-2800 calories, depending on your activity level that could be higher.

There's no need to ever go over ~13% body fat.

[mirgee]

I will try cutting on lower carb - starting at 2300 cal, with P/C/F at about 200/150/100. Upping my cardio to 30 min light fasted steady state jogs in the morning every day, while still lifting 5 times a week with emphasis on preserving my strength on heavy compound lifts.

I should use this site more, it is a great accountability tool I will post my progress here.

[Robertosis]

For crying out loud, what you experienced was completely normal. Your body is crying out for it's regular fuel of carbs, so you feel constantly hungry despite eating a ton of fat. Once your body is adapted this feeling subsides- you're not there after just three days.

This is why anyone starting keto should begin by just getting the adaption to burning fat out of the way, and not give a damn about total calories until this is complete.

[Mrpb]

I will try cutting ....

I don't think you fully realize what you're doing to your body. At your current body fat level it's a bad idea to lose more weight.

The only time it would make 'sense' is for a bodybuilding contest preparation. Studies have shown it takes months to get their health and testosterone levels back to normal.

[Isaacroths123]

Dude, why would you even wanna look that cut? If anything I would say to gain a little bit of weight in body fat to smooth things out at least a little and to be a tad bit healthier like the other people are saying with hormones and whatnot. I'm skinny as crap and know how ugly it looks to have a low body fat percentage. (My profile pic is not updated... And it won't be, because I'm not doing so great right now) Even the 15% body fat pic up there is preferable, provided that you maintain a V shape with a big upper back. I guess this is just my opinion though so at least I'll say this, you definitely don't need to diet!

[EjnarKolinkar]

On my previous, almost vegan low fat diet, when I was bingeing on fruits and vegetables, it wasn't as dangerous as it is on LCHF, as they are not as fattening as nuts. Maybe it's that when on the previous diet, nuts were almost not 'allowed', so even when I ate a very small amount, I felt guilty of cheating, whereas now they're 'allowed'... This is one of the reasons I wanted to try LCHF - I loooove nuts!

Maybe you shoudl just avoid restrictive diets and eat well?

I read that calories from nuts are not fully absorbed by the body (due to thermogenic effect, increased metabolic rate and fat locked in cell membrances preventing digestive tract to absorb it properly). Do any of you have any experience with diet high in nuts and weight gain?

That is balogna, you eat too many cals, and you gain weight, to include nuts.

--

I would avoid cutting at you position and instead focus on quality training and eating well to support your progress.

If you are concerned you are suffering from an eating disorder the best thing to do is get some help IRL. Good luck man, I hope you settle down and get it figured out, and accomplish all you are after.

[mirgee]

I don't think you fully realize what you're doing to your body. At your current body fat level it's a bad idea to lose more weight.

As I said, I have been 20 pounds lighter than now and felt great.

[mirgee]

Dude, why would you even wanna look that cut?

You say that because you are naturally skinny. Some people, me included, are not and have to watch what they eat, keep the BF% as low as possible because things get out of control easily for them.

[mirgee]

Maybe you shoudl just avoid restrictive diets and eat well?

But it wasn't a restrictive diet, it was dietary preference. I didn't limit my calories or the kinds of foods. What I ate just happened to be a lot of fruits, vegetables and not many animal products. The binging is a habit I built when recovering from anorexia. Or addiction rather, and very difficult one to cope with.

I am training hard and eating well - except those slipups, which cost me more fat gain than I wanted, hence the cut. I will do 2-3 weeks LCHF experiment, then get back on slow bulk track.

That is balogna, you eat too many cals, and you gain weight, to include nuts.

Any evidence to support that?

[Mrpb]

As I said, I have been 20 pounds lighter than now and felt great.

That's great but that doesn't mean that you'll feel better if you get even leaner!

Cutting at this stage means likely losing strength and muscle mass.

Here's someone that dieted from ~14% to 5%. It took him 6 (!) months after that to regain his strength.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?D...t=abstractplus

[mirgee]

Cutting at this stage means likely losing strength and muscle mass.

Cutting at any stage means likely losing strength and muscle mass. That's also why I want to do cut now, as opposed to doing a longer cut later.

[Mrpb]

That's also why I want to do cut now, as opposed to doing a longer cut later.

It doesn't make sense. Cutting is what you do when you have more body fat.

I don't think I'm getting through to you. You may have serious problem. I wish you the best of luck.

[danfleysher]

I think you just need moderation. That applies to both bulking and cutting. Don't starve yourself, but don't binge either. If you track your macro's, keep to your calorie goals and drink lots of water, that usually helps with feeling of satiety.

On another note, you're plenty cut and at the level of bf% that I'm trying to hit before I begin my bulk. If you slow bulk at 300 calorie surplus, you won't be gaining a lot of fat but you will be building solid mass. If you keep to a strict surplus, you shouldn't be overeating either.

[mirgee]

I think you just need moderation.

If you slow bulk at 300 calorie surplus, you won't be gaining a lot of fat but you will be building solid mass. If you keep to a strict surplus, you shouldn't be overeating either.

Yeah man, you sound very reasonable.

On another note, you're plenty cut and at the level of bf% that I'm trying to hit before I begin my bulk.

How long are your cutting / bulking phases usually? What is your experience with LCHF?

[danfleysher]

Yeah man, you sound very reasonable.

Haha, I just know where you're coming from. Look at my sig, it has "binge-eating" written all over it. I have spent years trying to build mass while cutting (didn't work). I started reading up on nutrition late last year and finally got closer to my goals than I've ever been. It's a lot of will-power.

How long are your cutting / bulking phases usually? What is your experience with LCHF?

I'm relatively new so maybe I'm not the best source. My experience from reading others has been most bulking phases last around 7-9 months and cutting is 3-4 months. The reason, I imagine, is because most bulking is done with a slow bulk of 200-300 kcal surplus but deficits can get to 500-600 kcal.

I'm a big proponent of Ketogenic diets. The biggest change I've seen is that I'm never hungry and have no sugar cravings. I've noticed some other changes like increased energy, better sleep patterns, and clearer skin (but if that's due to ketogenic or something else, idk). I've had success with it in the past (lost 20lbs), gained some of it back on vacation but am back on it right now. Still loving it and will probably stick to this diet when cutting.

[mirgee]

I'm a big proponent of Ketogenic diets. The biggest change I've seen is that I'm never hungry and have no sugar cravings. I've noticed some other changes like increased energy, better sleep patterns, and clearer skin (but if that's due to ketogenic or something else, idk). I've had success with it in the past (lost 20lbs), gained some of it back on vacation but am back on it right now. Still loving it and will probably stick to this diet when cutting.

I have noticed some positive, some negative changes a few days into lowering my carbs. Starting with the negative:
Less energy during workouts. This is especially noticable on compound heavy lifts. My strength hasn't decreased (yet), but deadlifts have been noticably more difficult. But I think the next day this got a little better as my body adapted.
It's harder to focus mentally. I have noticed that my thinking has become a little bit slower at school and at work, but this also seems to start getting better.
I don't sleep as much, but still have enough energy througout the day.

On the positive side:
My energy is much more stable during the day. No cravings at all. Hunger feels different - I am not 'shaky' as I used to be when hungry. All of these are probably result of more stable blood sugar levels.

I like it so far and will continue this experiment for 2-3 weeks. But one thing that trips me up is variety - there are many more healthy high carb foods (so many fruits, grains, beans...) than healthy low carb foods (veggies, eggs, nuts and low fat dairy,...? I am not going to eat sticks of butter or bacon...).

[danfleysher]

I have noticed some positive, some negative changes a few days into lowering my carbs. Starting with the negative:
Less energy during workouts. This is especially noticable on compound heavy lifts. My strength hasn't decreased (yet), but deadlifts have been noticably more difficult. But I think the next day this got a little better as my body adapted.
It's harder to focus mentally. I have noticed that my thinking has become a little bit slower at school and at work, but this also seems to start getting better.
I don't sleep as much, but still have enough energy througout the day.

On the positive side:
My energy is much more stable during the day. No cravings at all. Hunger feels different - I am not 'shaky' as I used to be when hungry. All of these are probably result of more stable blood sugar levels.

I like it so far and will continue this experiment for 2-3 weeks. But one thing that trips me up is variety - there are many more healthy high carb foods (so many fruits, grains, beans...) than healthy low carb foods (veggies, eggs, nuts and low fat dairy,...? I am not going to eat sticks of butter or bacon...).

The energy levels & strength should come back to normal after a few days of being adapted. My first week was pretty awful as well.

As to your other comment, define "healthy". Nobody is suggesting you eat globs of butter. I get my fats from avocados, nuts, & fattier cuts of meats. I also put Chipotle mayo on pretty much everything. Broccoli and spinach are both very nutrient dense and recommended for Keto.

[sonnydfrizzy]

Hey dude. I was referred to this thread because someone said you were struggling.
Unfortunately, as you know, you have developed an eating disorder. The restrictive nature of what you are trying to accomplish with a very delusional perspective of your body image is destroying you mentally and physically.

I was your height and 120 pounds at one point. Caught in a forever cut mindset because I was so afraid to eat anything that wasnt clean and I avoided carbs at all costs.

Is this really how you want to go about your life? An endless pursuit of chasing aesthetics and never maximizing your true potential as a human being. You are young. You are so much more than a dude who lifts and tries to get yoked.

Your mind and hormones are completely being effed over right now; I was told by my doc that TRT was inevitable because my testosterone levels were so low. I would have no energy to lift. My social and sex life was nothing. I neglected relationships with friends and family. I did not LIVE LIFE; I simply occupied space.

I highly encourage you go back to eating normal. Find an eating disorder specialist. Tell your parents what you are dealing with. Ask for support from family and friends. Make the decision to change. Do you constantly want to live thinking solely about food and how much you lift and look lean? Is this really making you happy and satisfied?

My recommendations:
- Find an eating disorder specialist
- Learn how to eat normally again (hint: eat with your friends)
- Gain relationships back that you have neglected
- remind yourself that you CAN balance the gym so long as it ENHANCES your life
- I would not track calories and just eat 3-4 balanced meals a day paying attention to satiety and hunger. If you insist on tracking, start with 3k calories a day.

PM me if you need anything else buddy.

[mirgee]

Hey man, I really appreciate this message - it's nice to find someone so well-meaning. I know you're just trying to help, but I really don't have to hear this. I am not mad at people giving advice unasked for, on the contrary, I know very well how dangerous eating disorders are and what can they do to one's life. But in this case, you are just projecting your (past) problems onto a stranger you don't know almost anything about. What makes you think you know me, or what is best for me, better than I do? I am an adult, with my own experience. You can share yours, but not tell me whether I am struggling, whether I have developed an ED, what is the nature of what I am trying to accomplish, as if you knew my mind and body than I do. That is not reasonable at all.

This is really personal, but so what... Two years ago, I've had my struggle with anorexia - long distance running, eating basically only salads and also was 120 pounds at one point. This messed my mind and body in horrible ways and what followed was such a massive overeating I became overweight within months. I really don't have fond memories of the time...

But this is in the past, and I consider myself cured (to the extent this is possible) and relatively healthy (compared to before). Yes, I still struggle sometimes, with binges, or eating in public... But I learned my lessons and now I know my mind and body much better (better than anyone else for that matter) which only makes any fitness goals I set that much more reachable. I know very well what I am doing. I don't have distorted body image, bu I do have ambitious goals - I believe I can reach them now. And I am not going to give up on them, because they are one of the few bright things in my life.

Besides, my weight is in the norm I am not doing anything crazy - 2300 cals is far from anything even remotely resembling starvation, given my activity levels. It's actually around maintenance.

I know you think that this is a disease talking and you're not getting through to me, but I really get what you're saying - I know where you're coming from and would have given similar advice to anyone struggling. I agree we should go help people who have been through these things like us, but I am not one of them anymore.

[sonnydfrizzy]

Yeah you're right. You really seem to be doing things right now and very satisfied with your results and progress and mindset.

Keep doing what you're doing, it is really working well for you!

And please seek professional help.

[NickelArse]

Hey man, if you're still having issues with fat adaption you should try a pre or post workout bullet proof coffee or other variety of fat+caffeine beverage.

I seriously struggled with a keto diet my first time around, my second try after I discovered BP coffee it made life so much easier.

[kr00mpeer]

@everyone:
(my opinions)

- don't support him to eat (this or that - it is not important in this topic- just don't)
- such comments can just create an "excuse" to binge and... here we go again.
- also, i am pretty sure that op will accept only posts that (indirectly) supports/encourage him to do another binge episode.

- op's problem is psychological nature and i think it can be "cured" only through even more self control

@op
your, so called, "cravings" are just an excuse to binge.
it won't go away with any diet. (neither with keto)
there are no "safe" food in any diet
what do you even consider as safe food?
- to eat pounds and pounds of something to overfill you up & without significant caloric intake?
if you don't have self control - let someone else take over.
- i.e. let someone else cook for you - provide recipes & portion sizes to your mother and use your fridge only as a source of tap water

you can do it.

and, yes, you only know how to live by some rules.
you are not ready yet to diet on an autopilot (without fixed rules - "bags of cashews")
- even keto, no matter what others say that you can lose weight on keto without counting
- yes it is true.... but, for you - not yet.
- be patient & relax. let some else do job for you in the beginning...